An imam in the Jakarta area and I correspond fairly regularly. It’s the same as the west - politics and criminals like to hide behind religion.noddy wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 10:27 pm Indonesia , only has those problems in the arab-afied areas.
south pacific culture doesnt tend to get so caught up in things, its hot , its humid, heavy clothing is not useful.
middle class muslims , from educated backgrounds and cities, no real problems - middle class is the same world over, with slight differences.
I wouldnt go dumping a million australian labourers in another country either
The Netherlands
-
Nonc Hilaire
- Posts: 6252
- Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:28 am
Re: The Netherlands
“Christ has no body now but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks with compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks among His people to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses His creation.”
Teresa of Ávila
Teresa of Ávila
Re: The Netherlands
The Wilderling argument would be: let those Muslims live in historically Muslim countries. A win-win for everybody. But you can't get rid of them legally and closing the immigration door completely is a political no-go too.
The reason Muslims are not trusted in Europe:
Undercover mosque 1/6
Similar series about major Mosques in Denmark. Toxic houses of psychosis and hatred that need to be closed down, but won't be. It is considered a virtue of tolerance to allow them to exist; a post-Christian feature of Western European societies to believe in goodness, to convert people with love, empathy, acceptance. God forbid you fail being such a loving and forgiving human being! You'd jeopardize your own future too...
When people share the same territory but no longer trust each other... violence is the endgame. A number of Wilderlings make plans to leave, escape the hell hole they see developing. I have two collegues who make these plans already. Not just because of Islam; it's the complete package of the emerging globalist system police state plus leftist climate ideology wealth drain. They go as remote as possible, off the grid, grizzly adams style. Very resourceful guys though, so not for everybody. I prefer staying on the Titanic, I'm too old for that middle finger.
The reason Muslims are not trusted in Europe:
Undercover mosque 1/6
Similar series about major Mosques in Denmark. Toxic houses of psychosis and hatred that need to be closed down, but won't be. It is considered a virtue of tolerance to allow them to exist; a post-Christian feature of Western European societies to believe in goodness, to convert people with love, empathy, acceptance. God forbid you fail being such a loving and forgiving human being! You'd jeopardize your own future too...
When people share the same territory but no longer trust each other... violence is the endgame. A number of Wilderlings make plans to leave, escape the hell hole they see developing. I have two collegues who make these plans already. Not just because of Islam; it's the complete package of the emerging globalist system police state plus leftist climate ideology wealth drain. They go as remote as possible, off the grid, grizzly adams style. Very resourceful guys though, so not for everybody. I prefer staying on the Titanic, I'm too old for that middle finger.
Deep down I'm very superficial
Re: The Netherlands
Didn't dubbaya Bush believe he could do business with Putin because he had a crucifix hanging around his neck?Nonc Hilaire wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 5:25 am An imam in the Jakarta area and I correspond fairly regularly. It’s the same as the west - politics and criminals like to hide behind religion.
Deep down I'm very superficial
-
Nonc Hilaire
- Posts: 6252
- Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:28 am
Re: The Netherlands
Dubya believed two planes flew into three buildings which caused them to all collapse perfectly into their own footprints.Parodite wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 1:27 pmDidn't dubbaya Bush believe he could do business with Putin because he had a crucifix hanging around his neck?Nonc Hilaire wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 5:25 am An imam in the Jakarta area and I correspond fairly regularly. It’s the same as the west - politics and criminals like to hide behind religion.
If Dubya saw Putin wearing a crucifix I imagine he watched Putin closely in case he laid an easter egg.
“Christ has no body now but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks with compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks among His people to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses His creation.”
Teresa of Ávila
Teresa of Ávila
Re: The Netherlands
From 37 seats in the election results, to now 48 in the polls. Something happening here...
Deep down I'm very superficial
-
Heracleum Persicum
- Posts: 11793
- Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:38 pm
Re: The Netherlands
Honestly, I like it when people express their opinions this way; civil and creative. The immense suffering of the Palestinians in Gaza should not be forgotten.
Deep down I'm very superficial
Re: The Netherlands
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/du ... 024-05-22/
This center-right gvt is almost there. Question is how much they can act against the diktats of Brussels.
Not clear yet who will be PM, but that's a technical detail. In the main they have a good program. Especially they want to invest heavily in nuclear energy, moving to energy independence.
Coming EU elections for 1st time I'll vote, looks like the BBB is a good choice.
The EU needs some serious pruning. Major political issues like immigration, climate change and eco 2030-50 should be decided democratically in nation states, not by fascist-corrupted EU priesthood courts.
It is sorta amazing how many people consider any court as populated by wise judges, who cite from legal holybooks, and surrender their minds accordingly with unquestioned respect. If a court decides.. it has to be right, true and wise.
The left opposition parties so far appear weak and clueless, resorting to old school leftwing care for the poor and vulnerable, that they have betrayed with their very expensive eco-fascist mania and immigration policies, causing massive wealth drains for those same poor and vulnerable they claim to care about. Those groups now vote en masse for populist and no-nonsense parties.
Like the left high-brow echelons everywhere, they are unable to critically self-reflect what they are doing wrong. Instead, they muse about the horrors of a majority of Dutch voters voting for "extreme rightwing" policies and "intolerant philosophies that want to exclude people with the wrong skin color and religion from participating in society" and "climate change deniers".
One day that bubble will pop, with TDS-like symptoms going on steroids.
This center-right gvt is almost there. Question is how much they can act against the diktats of Brussels.
Not clear yet who will be PM, but that's a technical detail. In the main they have a good program. Especially they want to invest heavily in nuclear energy, moving to energy independence.
Coming EU elections for 1st time I'll vote, looks like the BBB is a good choice.
The EU needs some serious pruning. Major political issues like immigration, climate change and eco 2030-50 should be decided democratically in nation states, not by fascist-corrupted EU priesthood courts.
It is sorta amazing how many people consider any court as populated by wise judges, who cite from legal holybooks, and surrender their minds accordingly with unquestioned respect. If a court decides.. it has to be right, true and wise.
The left opposition parties so far appear weak and clueless, resorting to old school leftwing care for the poor and vulnerable, that they have betrayed with their very expensive eco-fascist mania and immigration policies, causing massive wealth drains for those same poor and vulnerable they claim to care about. Those groups now vote en masse for populist and no-nonsense parties.
Like the left high-brow echelons everywhere, they are unable to critically self-reflect what they are doing wrong. Instead, they muse about the horrors of a majority of Dutch voters voting for "extreme rightwing" policies and "intolerant philosophies that want to exclude people with the wrong skin color and religion from participating in society" and "climate change deniers".
One day that bubble will pop, with TDS-like symptoms going on steroids.
Deep down I'm very superficial
Re: The Netherlands
Geert Wilders
Hope in the Netherlands
AYAAN HIRSI ALI
The issue that supersedes immigration, is the question how a tolerant society should in general deal with intolerant groups that have a proven record of wanting to change our tolerant society into an intolerant, non-democratic one where also free speech is on death row. That is about 10% of all Muslims in Europe, but they are not the only group.
The future might come up with people that perfectly fit within the category of systemically intolerant but with very different and unexpected features and backgrounds. Islam is just a test case and the first to go through the motions.
To be tolerant of seriously intolerant people is a very big mistake. They can't be "fixed" through psychotherapy, are very hard to convert to other religions or ideologies of a more liberal and tolerant nature. Which leaves only the question of quantity: how many of those people can be part of your society before it starts to fall apart? Dirty secret: all native Europeans prefer less Muslims, not more.
It is some sort of "wir schaffen das" hubris and messianic un-realisms, as well as Christian and post-Christian leftist arrogance that looks down on Islam and Muslims, wanting to treat them like children in need of parental care or as savages that need to be educated and integrated*. Also a female thing: "When I love my violent husband he will surely change, once he is more in contact with his emotions. I can help him." Especially females push these immigration policies and tolerance towards bad guys that will never change.
"Integration" is a major misnomer in the debates. If the host country needs to make big efforts to integrate an immigrant, it is the wrong place for that immigrant who is probably better off elsewhere.
Normal immigrants make the effort themselves to integrate and do what it takes: learn the language, get an education, know the basics of civil and criminal law, the constitution, of history and culture, add value to our mixed and diverse society. Those who pull it down and back to the dark middle ages should be removed or denied citizenship.
Hope in the Netherlands
AYAAN HIRSI ALI
The issue that supersedes immigration, is the question how a tolerant society should in general deal with intolerant groups that have a proven record of wanting to change our tolerant society into an intolerant, non-democratic one where also free speech is on death row. That is about 10% of all Muslims in Europe, but they are not the only group.
The future might come up with people that perfectly fit within the category of systemically intolerant but with very different and unexpected features and backgrounds. Islam is just a test case and the first to go through the motions.
To be tolerant of seriously intolerant people is a very big mistake. They can't be "fixed" through psychotherapy, are very hard to convert to other religions or ideologies of a more liberal and tolerant nature. Which leaves only the question of quantity: how many of those people can be part of your society before it starts to fall apart? Dirty secret: all native Europeans prefer less Muslims, not more.
It is some sort of "wir schaffen das" hubris and messianic un-realisms, as well as Christian and post-Christian leftist arrogance that looks down on Islam and Muslims, wanting to treat them like children in need of parental care or as savages that need to be educated and integrated*. Also a female thing: "When I love my violent husband he will surely change, once he is more in contact with his emotions. I can help him." Especially females push these immigration policies and tolerance towards bad guys that will never change.
"Integration" is a major misnomer in the debates. If the host country needs to make big efforts to integrate an immigrant, it is the wrong place for that immigrant who is probably better off elsewhere.
Normal immigrants make the effort themselves to integrate and do what it takes: learn the language, get an education, know the basics of civil and criminal law, the constitution, of history and culture, add value to our mixed and diverse society. Those who pull it down and back to the dark middle ages should be removed or denied citizenship.
Deep down I'm very superficial
-
Heracleum Persicum
- Posts: 11793
- Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:38 pm
Re: The Netherlands
Parodite .. the heart of European immigration problem, maybe Western world, is what this GuRu sayin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8ouDk2Mayw
"White Man" has not ACCEPTED neither "Respects" those coming, as "equals", as same human beings with their own "peculiarities", but "tolerates" that SH*T for street cleaning and toilet washing.
Europe does not Accept Arabs and Turks and Syrians as equals but tolerates them.
That leads to : toleration has its own limits, comet a time, you had it.
A good Dutch friend said we love Iranians coming to Holland and have no issue with them .. the reason is Europeans look up to Iranians, and Iranians "model" Europeans. That means you guys don't "tolerate" but accept Iranians as "equals" or even more than equals.
Head of Norway Senate, #2 after King, is Iranian fresh off the boat .. Frankfurt Meyer is Iranian lady escaped from Evin jail
.. many Iranian in German Bundestag and basically Iranian doctors run German medical system You "tolerate" those Moroccan and Indonesians but they no equal
That is the heart of the matter .. you know as I know this the truth.
.
Re: The Netherlands
Tolerance not in your Betty Boop psychological sense where people have stereotypical, biased ideas about other people, you are a good example of that. It is the very thing you do on this forum 24/7. Israel this, Zionists that, The West, The East, White People ohohw, colored people awawaw.
You are "tolerated" because it is your right to be biased, to stereotype, say things other people find idiotic, hypocritical, distasteful if not disgusting. Same is true the other way round of course, that's the whole point. We can find each other biased, disgustingly hypocritical, arrogant, racist. The law tolerates diverse opinion, it doesn't mean I should like what you say, or be politely indifferent.
On the Betty Boop level, where we all have our psychological biases and stereotype to a degree, the sharp edges tend to disappear when people know each other better as individuals, do things together for instance as collegues at work. Most then get along, group-IDs blur away into the background. But we will all have our likes and dislikes. Even Mulla*s have them. Part of being human.
In free societies people develop thicker skins and can therefor tolerate more. It is like a learned skill. Similar to overcoming fears by being exposed to what you fear. Humor, ridicule, to offend and be offended without starting a fistfight, let alone a war. You learn to shrug it off, ie you learn to be tolerant. It becomes less and less an effort.
Now there are certain people who can't take a joke, who have such a thin skin that they are as easily offended as a little girl who is told he hair sucks.
Adult male cry babies, who believe they should be exempted and protected by law to never to be offended, ridiculed what they hold dear but who themselves want to have those rights and insult gay people, throw them off buildings, who hate disbelievers and those who make intolerable jokes about their hero of 1800 years ago. Who have their thumbs up praising terrorist groups like Hamas and make no secret wanting to eradicate Israel. Who want to install dark age Sharia Law here the moment they get the chance.
The law should not be tolerant of those people who want to erase its core tolerant principles and values. But this is not strange or exceptional: the law always demarcates what is tolerated and not tolerated. That is the whole point of any law or regulation. How it should protect itself from annihilation is the issue.
You are "tolerated" because it is your right to be biased, to stereotype, say things other people find idiotic, hypocritical, distasteful if not disgusting. Same is true the other way round of course, that's the whole point. We can find each other biased, disgustingly hypocritical, arrogant, racist. The law tolerates diverse opinion, it doesn't mean I should like what you say, or be politely indifferent.
On the Betty Boop level, where we all have our psychological biases and stereotype to a degree, the sharp edges tend to disappear when people know each other better as individuals, do things together for instance as collegues at work. Most then get along, group-IDs blur away into the background. But we will all have our likes and dislikes. Even Mulla*s have them. Part of being human.
In free societies people develop thicker skins and can therefor tolerate more. It is like a learned skill. Similar to overcoming fears by being exposed to what you fear. Humor, ridicule, to offend and be offended without starting a fistfight, let alone a war. You learn to shrug it off, ie you learn to be tolerant. It becomes less and less an effort.
Now there are certain people who can't take a joke, who have such a thin skin that they are as easily offended as a little girl who is told he hair sucks.
Adult male cry babies, who believe they should be exempted and protected by law to never to be offended, ridiculed what they hold dear but who themselves want to have those rights and insult gay people, throw them off buildings, who hate disbelievers and those who make intolerable jokes about their hero of 1800 years ago. Who have their thumbs up praising terrorist groups like Hamas and make no secret wanting to eradicate Israel. Who want to install dark age Sharia Law here the moment they get the chance.
The law should not be tolerant of those people who want to erase its core tolerant principles and values. But this is not strange or exceptional: the law always demarcates what is tolerated and not tolerated. That is the whole point of any law or regulation. How it should protect itself from annihilation is the issue.
Deep down I'm very superficial
-
Heracleum Persicum
- Posts: 11793
- Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:38 pm
Re: The Netherlands
Parodite wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2024 9:15 am
Tolerance not in your Betty Boop psychological sense where people have stereotypical, biased ideas about other people, you are a good example of that. It is the very thing you do on this forum 24/7. Israel this, Zionists that, The West, The East, White People ohohw, colored people awawaw.
You are "tolerated" because it is your right to be biased, to stereotype, say things other people find idiotic, hypocritical, distasteful if not disgusting. Same is true the other way round of course, that's the whole point. We can find each other biased, disgustingly hypocritical, arrogant, racist. The law tolerates diverse opinion, it doesn't mean I should like what you say, or be politely indifferent.
On the Betty Boop level, where we all have our psychological biases and stereotype to a degree, the sharp edges tend to disappear when people know each other better as individuals, do things together for instance as collegues at work. Most then get along, group-IDs blur away into the background. But we will all have our likes and dislikes. Even Mulla*s have them. Part of being human.
In free societies people develop thicker skins and can therefor tolerate more. It is like a learned skill. Similar to overcoming fears by being exposed to what you fear. Humor, ridicule, to offend and be offended without starting a fistfight, let alone a war. You learn to shrug it off, ie you learn to be tolerant. It becomes less and less an effort.
Now there are certain people who can't take a joke, who have such a thin skin that they are as easily offended as a little girl who is told he hair sucks.
Adult male cry babies, who believe they should be exempted and protected by law to never to be offended, ridiculed what they hold dear but who themselves want to have those rights and insult gay people, throw them off buildings, who hate disbelievers and those who make intolerable jokes about their hero of 1800 years ago. Who have their thumbs up praising terrorist groups like Hamas and make no secret wanting to eradicate Israel. Who want to install dark age Sharia Law here the moment they get the chance.
The law should not be tolerant of those people who want to erase its core tolerant principles and values. But this is not strange or exceptional: the law always demarcates what is tolerated and not tolerated. That is the whole point of any law or regulation. How it should protect itself from annihilation is the issue.
HP this and that does not answer the point made in my post
The European immigration problem is Europeans do not "accept" as "equal" those Moroccans and Turks .. Europeans look down to those cultures (and civilizations). Code word is "Islam".
White Man does not consider those cultures as equal .. Europeans say : Mr. Moroccan, be grateful you here, and adapt our culture or f*ck off.
Mr. Moroccan on the other hand says f*ck you, and that leads to "Quartier Arab" or Turk etc.
No good hiding around the bush, spit out the truth
And
Ain't so that HP here "tolerated" because it is your right to be biased, to stereotype, say things other people find idiotic, hypocritical, distasteful if not disgusting. .. would be sad if true ..
HP brings to this fora another view of world some posters might still be in .. what HP says neither idiotic, hypocritical, distasteful nor disgusting. Those who feel that way still living in old good days, we in "New World" where bitter truth must be told, better get used to it.
.
Re: The Netherlands
most germanic cultures arent really into accepting anyone, including other germanics.
their is you, your friends, and your family - and then all the other fuckers.
maybe the moroccans have the wrong expectation.
their is you, your friends, and your family - and then all the other fuckers.
maybe the moroccans have the wrong expectation.
ultracrepidarian
-
Heracleum Persicum
- Posts: 11793
- Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:38 pm
Re: The Netherlands
True ..
Always appreciate frankness
I lived in Munich and did all my school, highschool and university in German speaking culture, and can confirm this
But they have a valid case
Not so the other Europeans
Also true
Moroccans misunderstood the whole thing - Coming in, the Moroccans were not told they have to abandon their culture and instead adapt Western Man's culture.
For Europe this a very difficult situation .. White European population dropping dramatically, Germany losing 250,000 Blond Blue Eye Germans a year, Italy much worst etc .. Europe needs "MASSIVE" numbers of Immigrants, at least 1 million a year just to keep the population flat.
Add to this Canada (2023 Canada had "one million" immigrants, law passed in parliament Canada must let in 500,000 immigrants a year) and Australia etc
There no millions of "white" immigrants a yr .. alternative would be Nederland becomes HINDU, Nigerian, Indonesia or Chinese.
Dont know what this Geert Wilders is about
And
There a reason Biden America has opened the southern gates and latino flooding US .. similar situation in US .. in 100 yrs probably US a latino country
.
Re: The Netherlands
HP, reality is, you are completely delusional, not just a bit. Wrong about everything, must give you that, it's quite an achievement.
Deep down I'm very superficial
-
Heracleum Persicum
- Posts: 11793
- Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:38 pm
Re: The Netherlands
We no participant but analysts
Participants hope, insist
Analyst must avoid wishful thinking, stick to facts, and project future unbiased, no matter whether it to or against one's preference.
Acid test for a good analyst, is his "track record" predicting the future .. this easy done as one can google his political articles/posts .. an excellent sample is NYT Thomas Friedman .. one can read what he said about Iran, Israel, Lebanon, Arabs, Russia, China 2000, 2010, 2020, 2024 and see how WRONG he was, he was writing how he wished things would be in future and not how things "most probably" would develop, he a "cheerleader" for his side camouflaged as analyst.
Doing above you can see who really is "completely delusional, not just a bit. Wrong about everything, must give you that, it's quite an achievement "
Every prediction HP did, since posting on ATOL with David, REALIZED .. David too thought HP crazy and banned HP .. now he "silent", did not write anythings about Mull*hs sending those missiles over Israeli skies and now Israel's fiasco, ICC's Natanyahu and friend war criminal verdict and to be arrested setting foot in EU ..
Looking forward to read what David Goldman has to say about the "New World Order" .. he acting as if he unaware of his surroundings.
Unfortunately.
.