The Student Debt Thread

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Ammianus
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The Student Debt Thread

Post by Ammianus »

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/ ... story.html
Bankruptcy lawyers have a frightening message for America: They’re seeing the telltale signs of a student loan debt bubble that is placing increased financial pressure on families struggling with their children’s mounting debt. According to a recent survey by the National Association of Consumer Bankruptcy Attorneys, more than 80 percent of bankruptcy lawyers have seen a substantial increase in the number of clients seeking relief from student loans in recent years.

In most cases, those clients could not meet the federal hardship standards that are necessary to discharge a student loan through bankruptcy proceedings. Instead, many of these parents or guardians who co-signed the student loans face the prospect of losing their life savings, cars or homes to collection agencies for aggressive private lenders.

William Brewer, head of NACBA, has said, “This could very well be the next debt bomb for the U.S. economy” — something akin to the housing mortgage loan crisis that triggered the U.S. financial crisis.

“Obviously, in the short term, student loan defaults are not going to have the same ripple effect through the economy that mortgage defaults did,” Brewer said. “My concern is that the long-term effect may be even graver, because people who need student loans to try to get a higher education or retraining” will be unwilling to run the risk of taking out a student loan.

Moody’s Analytics has evaluated the chances of a student loan crisis.

“Despite its rapid growth even as credit quality weakened during and after the recession, student lending is not likely to turn into the next subprime crisis,” it said in a January report. The student loan market is one-tenth the size of the residential mortgage market. And more than 90 percent of student loans are federally guaranteed.

But the rapid growth of student debt — mostly from federally subsidized loans — has alarmed some in the financial world and looms as the biggest long-term economic problem facing many college graduates and their families today.

The amount of student loan debt has skyrocketed in recent years to a total of $867 billion last year — or more than the $704 billion in outstanding U.S. credit card debt, according to the Federal Reserve Bank of New York. Of the 37 million borrowers who have outstanding student loan balances as of third-quarter 2011, 14.4 percent have at least one past-due student loan account.

During the 2010-11 academic year, students and families borrowed $104 billion in loans from the Education Department, a 50 percent increase over three years. Private education loans fell by 65 percent in that time, to $7.9 billion in 2010-11.

College seniors who graduated with student loans individually owed an average of $25,250, up 5 percent from the previous year, according to a study by Brewer’s group. Parents are responsible, on average, for $34,000 in student loans, a figure that rises to about $50,000 over a standard 10-year repayment period. An estimated 17 percent of parents whose children graduated in 2010 took out loans, a 5.6 percent increase from 1992 and 1993.

And thus completed the Three Horsemen of the Apocalypse for the American Middle Class: Health Care, Real Estate, and Higher Education, courtesy of the Big Private-Corporate-State-Federal Alliance.
Mr. Perfect
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Re: The Student Debt Thread

Post by Mr. Perfect »

I thought Obama took care of all of that.
Censorship isn't necessary
Ammianus
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Re: The Student Debt Thread

Post by Ammianus »

Mr. Perfect wrote:I thought Obama took care of all of that.
He will if he's reelected !
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monster_gardener
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Dave Ramsey on Student Debt..........

Post by monster_gardener »

Last night Christian financial expert Dave Ramsey became exasperated on his radio show with loser after loser calling in for advice with IIRC up to $100K+ of student debt and an effectively unusable degree......... Theology degree from Columbia University......... B.S. in Psychology (need an M.S. at a minimum......... Lots were women who now want to be stay at home Moms :shock:

Dave went on a ~ 4minute rant in which he said that parents need to make sure that children study something usable/salable..........

Link to text version of Dave's rant/advice.....

http://www.daveramsey.com/index.cfm?eve ... ctid=text1
Last edited by monster_gardener on Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Typhoon
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Re: The Student Debt Thread

Post by Typhoon »

I vaguely recall reading that due to lobbyist sponsored rewrites of the student loan rules, it is now much more difficult to escape from such debt, in the US, via personal bankruptcy than other forms of debt.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
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Enki
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Re: The Student Debt Thread

Post by Enki »

Student Loan debt is shaping up to be one of the top issues in Congressional races here.
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Antipatros
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Re: The Student Debt Thread

Post by Antipatros »

Student loan debt, particularly in personal bankruptcy, was a significant issue in Canada beginning in the mid-1990s. Many were outraged that anyone would attempt to avoid repaying a government-guaranteed loan while retaining the benefit of a valuable degree purchased with it.

It was absurd, given how low our tuition was and is, relative to American universities. Further, anyone who actually earned a degree or degrees was entitled to remission of a good portion of the loan -- back then, 40% of the first year's total and 25% of each subsequent year's.
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noddy
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Re: The Student Debt Thread

Post by noddy »

the genius of student loans is apparent to our left/green coalition government.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-03-19/g ... ts/3899330
Prime Minister Julia Gillard has announced details of her plan to give TAFE students access to HECS-style loans.

Ms Gillard says up to 60,000 TAFE students could benefit from the $1.75 billion package, which she will take to next month's Council of Australian Governments meeting.

University students have long been able to defer paying tuition fees until they find a job, and Ms Gillard says students undertaking vocational training should receive the same help.
the layers of brilliance in this plan are a sight to behold... first make basic unskilled work into skilled work by introducing licenses and then when the unskilled people cant get work anymore make them take risks by getting government loans to give them the paperwork to do what they used to do anyway.

im just fizzing with excitement, hold me back.. an excellent solution for the unfortunate who are struggling to keep up with the moving targets of modern life, its unfair that only the rich people have huge debts they cant pay back.
ultracrepidarian
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Carbizene
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Re: The Student Debt Thread

Post by Carbizene »

noddy wrote: first make basic unskilled work into skilled work by introducing licenses
wtf you talking about?..brick laying is such a skill that libertarian big ears can't do it.
Milo
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Re: The Student Debt Thread

Post by Milo »

My parents were, not untypically of the time, both able to graduate from high school with ~C+ averages, graduate from university with similar grades, in four years, and go get decent middle class jobs for life. For the careers that they chose they did not have to pay any university tuition.

Were they to go for the same career path these days, it would take 2 years longer to get the education and they would pay the going rates for tuition. Furthermore, they could not get into university on Cs; you need from B+'s to A's now to get in.

This means that the bar has been deliberately raised for access to marketable education in about the last 25 years, in terms of academics, cost and of time. But it did not happen until the 80s where I live. When I left high school it was about the same as my parents, but began to escalate soon after. Nor is it unique to their profession, my education could have been finished at least 2 years faster in their day.

Tuition is one thing but the far more expensive thing is to support either yourself or your children for those 2 more years.

Never have I heard a policy reason mooted for this either.
Simple Minded

Yeah.... so who is surprised?

Post by Simple Minded »

Every now and then, Karl gets it right:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-2 ... shows.html

Denninger: Almost two-thirds of U.S. student- loan borrowers misunderstood or were surprised by aspects of their loans or the student-loan process, a study shows.

About 20 percent of the respondents in an online survey said the amount of their monthly payments was unexpected, according to the study released today by Young Invincibles, a nonprofit group in Washington that represents the interests of 18-to-34 year-olds. The respondents had an average of $76,000 in student debt.

That's because the lenders, financial aid "officers" and counselors, all the way down to High School level all are vested in not making sure those terms are well-understood.

After all, how many college students would you have on your campus if you fairly and fully disclosed the likely earnings (not the "best possible outcome") for a given major and degree and then amortized out the cost of that education and, along with the expected tax burden on that graduate, showed them exactly how much they'd have left to live on?

The answer is this: The campus would be empty.

Deception is therefore necessary, either through omission or commission, in order to "sell" the product. If you fairly disclosed, for example, that this much debt would basically destroy the graduate's ability to buy a house for ten years after graduation would they still sign up?

One point those of you who have been involved in this little scheme ought to keep in mind -- it will be these graduates who will, in 20 or 30 years, determine whether you get Medicare and Social Security, not to mention what your tax bracket looks like.

I hope they throw you all under the bus and then back over you, just to make sure that they didn't miss the first time.

You deserve it.


Will anyone be surprised when the Millenials & Homelanders opt out of paying social contracts that were passed into law before they were born? And not fund military adventurism?

Would anyone blame them? Not I!

When times are so prosperous that money is falling off the trees, people can believe any sort of foolishness (square circles & free lunches) they irrationally desire. Then when reality sets in, the self-delusional don't like it very much.

All across the Western hemisphere, people are just starting to think that the old saying: "The government is the great fiction by which everyone can live at the expense of someone else." just might be an accurate assessment of reality.

Kinda like a big ole hangover ya get from drinkin too much of that debt wine.

"Tain't bout left & right. It's bout countin!!!"

Yee haw!!
Danielle
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Re: The Student Debt Thread

Post by Danielle »

Student loan debt collectors going under the microscope
There are trillions of dollars of student loans currently in the U.S. market, and $67 billion of that debt is in default. Though there are programs to help loans in default, federal collectors may not be offering those programs to troubled lenders.
It is easy to say that we must not take a loan that we cannot pay for. But it seems that guaranteed student loans means a higher education costs. Schools may charge high tuition fees because the government guarantees loan. That's why lots of college graduates are now having a hard time of paying back their loans.
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Nonc Hilaire
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Re: The Student Debt Thread

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

Danielle wrote:Student loan debt collectors going under the microscope
There are trillions of dollars of student loans currently in the U.S. market, and $67 billion of that debt is in default. Though there are programs to help loans in default, federal collectors may not be offering those programs to troubled lenders.
It is easy to say that we must not take a loan that we cannot pay for. But it seems that guaranteed student loans means a higher education costs. Schools may charge high tuition fees because the government guarantees loan. That's why lots of college graduates are now having a hard time of paying back their loans.
+1. Everybody who can get a loan can matriculate and graduate. Grades are adjusted so there are no failures, and graduates often cannot even write standard English.
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Typhoon
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Re: The Student Debt Thread

Post by Typhoon »

Nonc Hilaire wrote:
Danielle wrote:Student loan debt collectors going under the microscope
There are trillions of dollars of student loans currently in the U.S. market, and $67 billion of that debt is in default. Though there are programs to help loans in default, federal collectors may not be offering those programs to troubled lenders.
It is easy to say that we must not take a loan that we cannot pay for. But it seems that guaranteed student loans means a higher education costs. Schools may charge high tuition fees because the government guarantees loan. That's why lots of college graduates are now having a hard time of paying back their loans.
+1. Everybody who can get a loan can matriculate and graduate. Grades are adjusted so there are no failures, and graduates often cannot even write standard English.
Lake Wobegon is now a national phenomena as all students are now above average, receiving a grade of A.
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