Canada

[Ibrahim]

Quebec will never separate, because it is impossible for them to do so. For example, most of their land is owned by aboriginals and so isn't even under provincial jurisdiction. There are plenty of other excellent reasons to think that separatism is no more than a fashionable political designer label.
That treaty with China will be torn up as soon as it is inconvenient to honour it (treaties signed only by the feds can be disavowed by the provinces or thrown out by the courts etc.). Actually China is likely to wind up being screwed if they count on such a treaty.

Not to mention inevitable attempts by the City of Montreal and other regions to "de-separate."

I assume that time and demographics are not on the side of les seperatistes.

This is a huge factor. Breaking down attitudes to separatism by generation, people under 30 couldn't care less. The average separatist is a Quebecois version of a "the South will rise again" cliche rural Southerner. They are out there, but hardly in the numbers they were 50 years ago.


As I've said previously, the very really inequalities that motivated both the Quiet Revolution and Quebec separatism generally are gone, and thus the movement in dying out too.

[monster_gardener]

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What the Devil is going on in Canada ........

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Monster, ever heard of "Money talks" ? ? ?

Chinese, pretty much, only one who not broke

Did you miss only after Merkel went to Beijing she visited Greece telling "don't worry be happy" ?

Chinese now financing everybody, America runs on Chinese money, Europe runs on Chinese money .. why should Canada be an exception

prepare yourself for getting for your dollar only half Canadian loony, pretty much there (thanks to Chicago boys)

Harper might be a redneck, but he no durian .. he knows where the wind blows

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I thought that the Canadians had a bit more sense than we Uz often do.......

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Yes, they have (more sense)

you still in "we the greatest" mode

Don't like Harper, not at all .. but, he understands the realities

and

Monster

China needs all the resources Canada has .. AND CAN PAY FOR IT (nobody else can, including you guys .. AND .. Canada no Arab, you gotto pay for )

ever thought, come a time, Canada might not accept greenback for that 2.5 million barrel of Oil
daily flowing to you by Enbridge Pipeline if Bernanke keep printing and printing
and printing ?


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Monster, ever heard of "Money talks" ? ? ?

Sure....... And remember that I wondered if Harper may have been suborned by the Chinese.......

IIRC Conservative Canadians have been known to be corrupt........ Even to railroad things..... Which this appears to be......

Wondering if Stephen Harper is Snidely Whiplash in Disguise with Nell as Canada....... Where is Dudley's Horse when you need him.

Npfi0UZL2ow

Chinese, pretty much, only one who not broke

Did you miss only after Merkel went to Beijing she visited Greece telling "don't worry be happy" ?

Chinese now financing everybody, America runs on Chinese money, Europe runs on Chinese money ..

Maybe not for long......... Hat tip to Azrael..............

They did it again. Beijing’s economic statistics for July, issued last week, appear to have been “made up,” as the Chinese now characterize fictitious numbers. One figure, whether accurate or not, was especially illuminating. Last month, the production of electricity, according to the National Bureau of Statistics, increased 2.1% year-on-year.

There is growing evidence that officials have been artificially inflating the closely followed electricity number to make the economy appear stronger than it actually is, but even a 2.1% increase indicates China has flatlined.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/08/ ... z29VlPn6Nl

you still in "we the greatest" mode

Not at all Azari.......... I am very aware of some of my & Uz's faults......

We Uz are fairly good at somethings like Canal Digging and Astronautics but have IMVHO been neglecting that for silly shenanigans like trying to teach Democracy to Afghan Muslims without first teaching the Afghan women how to shoot and the will do it.......

We could be the greatest if we got enough of humanity off planet in sufficient numbers to survive if something BAD happens here.....

So could the Russians, the Pomegranates, the Euros, the Chinese, Japanese, the Indians etc.... I hope they all try for greatness......

why should Canada be an exception

Because AIUI per Milo Canada had enough good civil servants to avoid the Crash Uz had in 2008...........

And because as of yet I don't understand what Canada is getting out of this......
Are Canadians going to get a yearly stipend like Alaskans do in return for giving the candy store to the Chinese....

Canada no Arab,

Quite right Canada is not a Wannabe World Conquerer who failed and got dommed by the peoples he used to rob, rape and enslave.....

Don't see the need for such a one sided contract especially since Uncle Uz down South would be willing to make sure the Chinese Dragons didn't set the Maple Leaves on fire just like he kept the Russian Bears from eating the Euros........

China needs all the resources Canada has .. AND CAN PAY FOR IT

With Bernanke bucks which are worth less and less....

(nobody else can, including you guys ..

Wrong...... Sadly we are the source of the Bernanke bucks...........

Don't like Harper, not at all ..

Of course you don't. Harper supports Israel.......

So do I in my own peculiar way but until I know what benefit Canada gets from needlessly selling itself to China without allowing the common folk of Canada even the little say that we Black Gang Uz had about NAFTA, I am VERY suspicious.

[Milo]

Harper is just telling the Chinese what they want to hear. He knows that the treaty is essentially unenforceable because the provinces will reject anything that they don't like anyway. Undoubtedly his rich backers, and he himself, are getting some baksheesh out of it in the long run as well.

[Jnalum Persicum]

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Harper is just telling the Chinese what they want to hear. He knows that the treaty is essentially unenforceable because the provinces will reject anything that they don't like anyway. Undoubtedly his rich backers, and he himself, are getting some baksheesh out of it in the long run as well.

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Provinces are the beneficiary , Federal is just an umbrella

Chinese money already buying Canada

Vancouver is more expensive than NY .. AND .. Yankee dollar half a looney soon



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[Jnalum Persicum]

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K_oOKxkFhwE


"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both."

- Benjamin Franklin



more here




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[Jnalum Persicum]

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Above, Harper attacking Muslims


Shame Shame Shame on you

A must Watch


O7lBELCD74k

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Nelson described Canadian reserves as “more or less concentration camps.”

“The reservation was the standard, it was the system that South Africa studied and put in place for Apartheid,” he said.

In response to a question about the large number of First Nations people in jail, Pashe responded, “It’s part of the ongoing effort by the Canadian government to exterminate us.”

"They use policies, they use legislation, and in the past they used the gun and a disease-infested blanket to wipe out our people, to take our resources, take our lands and to exploit them for their own profit,” he later added.

The subject of Canada’s oil also featured prominently in the interview. Nelson said indigenous people don’t see the revenue from the oil Canada pumps to the United States from their land, yet they suffer the environmental effects.

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[Apollonius]

Genocide is a strong word to use, especially considering that aboriginal peoples are the fast growing segment of the Canadian population.



It just so happens that I've been doing quite a bit of reading about the history of First Nations peoples in Canada lately, and on the whole what impresses me most is how peaceful the encounter has been compared to just about any other place where you get moderns meeting Stone Age people, and how greatly Natives have prospered over the last century. Conditions in Aboriginal society were riven by class divisions. A large proportion of the Natives in this area were slaves, warfare was perpetual, life expectancies low, living conditions for most people simply unacceptable by anyone's standards today.


Of course there have been incidents, but even since the coming of Europeans, the most bitter and contentious fights have been within and between various Native groups. The various clans and tribes have a long and intimate history of hostility towards one another. To this very day there is the vexed question a about whom the government should negotiate outstanding claims with. You usually can't even get agreement within a small band of less than 200 people.



Another stereotype that needs to be demolished is the idea that all Canadian Indians are poor. This is nonsense. Unlike America, which tended to push its Native peoples onto less desirable land, Canadian Indians were almost always left on the spot. Many Canadian reserves are therefore within urban areas, in many cases sitting on some of the most valuable land in the country, and some of this urban land is leased out to help maintain an entire rentier class of urban Natives in Canadian cities.







N.B. The disease infected blanket story relates to an incident in Ohio, which, if you get reading the details, likely never happened but, was like so much of the mythology of Native-European contact, concocted later by propagandists.

The devil is in the details. Disease decimated the Native population. It wasn't always smallpox and measles. The Native peoples of the Willamette Valley in Oregon were wiped out by malaria, originally from Africa.



Azari, unlike me, I'm betting you have zero interest in First Nations peoples: you know nothing about their languages, their customs, their history, their art. Have you ever even met an Indian?

[Jnalum Persicum]

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Genocide is a strong word to use, especially considering that aboriginal peoples are the fast growing segment of the Canadian population.

Azari, unlike me, I'm betting you have zero interest in First Nations peoples: you know nothing about their languages, their customs, their history, their art. Have you ever even met an Indian?

Apollonius ,

you right

never met a "First Nation People" in my life, despite being next to them last 30 yrs .. that validates what the chief says in the clip

and

what has this to do with defending their rights ? ?

they humans like you and I and anybody else

and

if no genocide, how come their numbers fell from 90 million to just a few million now, as he says in the clip ?

Don't forget, Apollonius, they the landlord, we the guests

and

have heard white man wants to keep them down, and, probably wipe them out

and

though have not met any, but read a lot of things happening to them in the hands of the white guy


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[Ibrahim]

Genocide is a strong word to use, especially considering that aboriginal peoples are the fast growing segment of the Canadian population.

The two accurate uses of this term would be attempted genocide (debatable) and cultural genocide, which accurately describes the motivation behind the reservation system and residential school system as it existed from the 19th century to the 1950's at best, and vestiges of which still exist today. The intent was clearly to destroy all aspects of the original culture of First Nations people.

Whether or not the plan, in Canada at least, was to literally exterminate the native population, is dubious. The huge spaces and small populations made this both difficult and unnecessary for the colonizers.

Also worth noting that after most historical examples of genocide we are really only talking about the attempt or policy of wiping a people out. It is seldom achieved. The closest anyone has come to a complete genocide in modern history is that against the Romani people during WW2, but even so there are plenty of Romani all over Europe today.

It just so happens that I've been doing quite a bit of reading about the history of First Nations peoples in Canada lately, and on the whole what impresses me most is how peaceful the encounter has been compared to just about any other place where you get moderns meeting Stone Age people,

Given that warfare between colonial Europeans and the native population was immediate, and almost constant until the ability to effectively resist was broken, I fail to see how you could describe this as "peaceful" or how exactly it could have been more combative.

and how greatly Natives have prospered over the last century.

This depends on your definition of "prosper" and I wonder if you've visited any northern reservations, but certainly the policies of the Canadian government are radically different today than they were in the past. Much more conciliatory and progressive, as opposed to the prevailing attitudes for most of the colonial period.

Conditions in Aboriginal society were riven by class divisions. A large proportion of the Natives in this area were slaves, warfare was perpetual, life expectancies low, living conditions for most people simply unacceptable by anyone's standards today.

Sounds just like the European society as it stood when Europeans and First Nations people first encountered one another.

Of course there have been incidents, but even since the coming of Europeans, the most bitter and contentious fights have been within and between various Native groups. The various clans and tribes have a long and intimate history of hostility towards one another.

That's true. Furthermore, some of the most bitter and contentious fights have been between Europeans, and many European countries have a long and intimate history of hostility towards one another.

To this very day there is the vexed question a about whom the government should negotiate outstanding claims with. You usually can't even get agreement within a small band of less than 200 people.

Sounds suspiciously like democracy.

Another stereotype that needs to be demolished is the idea that all Canadian Indians are poor. This is nonsense. Unlike America, which tended to push its Native peoples onto less desirable land, Canadian Indians were almost always left on the spot.

This is a flagrantly false claim. While true in some examples, particularly in the Pacific region to which your new studies may be confined, or in the far arctic, but in the Eastern regions of the country First Nations groups were relocated extensively, and places in far-flung communities with poor or non-existent services.

Many Canadian reserves are therefore within urban areas, in many cases sitting on some of the most valuable land in the country, and some of this urban land is leased out to help maintain an entire rentier class of urban Natives in Canadian cities.

What proportion of the First Nations population do you believe belongs to this alleged rentier class, and what urban centers do you claim encompass reservations? How many East of the Rockies?

[Apollonius]

The dozen or so reserves I'm most familiar with are ALL located in urban areas. I don't know what percentage are benefiting from the rents, but no doubt, as in the past, only certain families. It's usually one of their members who starts on a rant like Azari posted, probably to assauge their guilt at the way resources are divided within the community and deflect hostility away from certain families, who continue to call the shots in Native society.






Small note about style.

Ibrahim.


You're one of these posters who does cut and paste, point by point dissection. I hate this style of posting. This is lawyerese crap. Don't expect me to respond to it.



If you are really interested in Natives or Native-White (and Native-Asian*) relations, there are lots of good books out there. As always, I suggest going as close to the source as possible. Some of the most extensive ethnologies and histories ever compiled to document Native life and contact times concern this area. On the Northwest Coast this all happened relatively recently and some of the founders of anthropology did a lot of incredibly detailed and nuanced work here. Don't be content with a news clip or a fifth-hand account written by someone with an axe to grind.







* An interesting footnote in Canadian history is that Japanese fishing boats confiscated during World War II mostly ended up in Native hands!

[Ibrahim]

The dozen or so reserves I'm most familiar with are ALL located in urban areas.

That does not answer either question.

Small note about style.

Ibrahim.


You're one of these posters who does cut and paste, point by point dissection. I hate this style of posting. This is lawyerese crap. Don't expect me to respond to it.

You don't respond because I'm correcting your false claims on a fact-by-fact, point-by-point basis and you are unable to respond.

If you are really interested in Natives or Native-White (and Native-Asian*) relations, there are lots of good books out there.

Yes, I have read some of them. This is why and how I am correcting you.

As always, I suggest going as close to the source as possible.

In terms of historical research my preference has always been for primary sources

[monster_gardener]

Genocide is a strong word to use, especially considering that aboriginal peoples are the fast growing segment of the Canadian population.

The two accurate uses of this term would be attempted genocide (debatable) and cultural genocide, which accurately describes the motivation behind the reservation system and residential school system as it existed from the 19th century to the 1950's at best, and vestiges of which still exist today. The intent was clearly to destroy all aspects of the original culture of First Nations people.

Whether or not the plan, in Canada at least, was to literally exterminate the native population, is dubious. The huge spaces and small populations made this both difficult and unnecessary for the colonizers.

Also worth noting that after most historical examples of genocide we are really only talking about the attempt or policy of wiping a people out. It is seldom achieved. The closest anyone has come to a complete genocide in modern history is that against the Romani people during WW2, but even so there are plenty of Romani all over Europe today.

It just so happens that I've been doing quite a bit of reading about the history of First Nations peoples in Canada lately, and on the whole what impresses me most is how peaceful the encounter has been compared to just about any other place where you get moderns meeting Stone Age people,

Given that warfare between colonial Europeans and the native population was immediate, and almost constant until the ability to effectively resist was broken, I fail to see how you could describe this as "peaceful" or how exactly it could have been more combative.

and how greatly Natives have prospered over the last century.

This depends on your definition of "prosper" and I wonder if you've visited any northern reservations, but certainly the policies of the Canadian government are radically different today than they were in the past. Much more conciliatory and progressive, as opposed to the prevailing attitudes for most of the colonial period.

Conditions in Aboriginal society were riven by class divisions. A large proportion of the Natives in this area were slaves, warfare was perpetual, life expectancies low, living conditions for most people simply unacceptable by anyone's standards today.

Sounds just like the European society as it stood when Europeans and First Nations people first encountered one another.

Of course there have been incidents, but even since the coming of Europeans, the most bitter and contentious fights have been within and between various Native groups. The various clans and tribes have a long and intimate history of hostility towards one another.

That's true. Furthermore, some of the most bitter and contentious fights have been between Europeans, and many European countries have a long and intimate history of hostility towards one another.

To this very day there is the vexed question a about whom the government should negotiate outstanding claims with. You usually can't even get agreement within a small band of less than 200 people.

Sounds suspiciously like democracy.

Another stereotype that needs to be demolished is the idea that all Canadian Indians are poor. This is nonsense. Unlike America, which tended to push its Native peoples onto less desirable land, Canadian Indians were almost always left on the spot.

This is a flagrantly false claim. While true in some examples, particularly in the Pacific region to which your new studies may be confined, or in the far arctic, but in the Eastern regions of the country First Nations groups were relocated extensively, and places in far-flung communities with poor or non-existent services.

Many Canadian reserves are therefore within urban areas, in many cases sitting on some of the most valuable land in the country, and some of this urban land is leased out to help maintain an entire rentier class of urban Natives in Canadian cities.

What proportion of the First Nations population do you believe belongs to this alleged rentier class, and what urban centers do you claim encompass reservations? How many East of the Rockies?

Thank you VERY Much for your posts, Ibrahim & Apollonius.

Sounds just like the European society as it stood when Europeans and First Nations people first encountered one another.

Maybe...... Maybe if by First Nations you include only Canada...

But Not if by First Nations you mean all Western Hemisphere Pre-Columbian Peoples.....

ESPECIALLY Mexico.........

Don't recall any major European society of the time of the encounter that was so heavily into human sacrifices and cannibalism as the Aztecs and fiends oops I mean friends..... Not that they had many......... When Cortez and the Spanish showed up, most of the non-Aztec tribes especially the Tlaxcalans were quite happy to ally with the Spanish...

And for the Tlaxcalans it worked out fairly well..... Better to be the vassal of the distant King of Spain than the designated sacrificial victim shop for the quite near and heart rendingly dear Revered Speaker of the Mexica Aztecs.......

For that matter even the North Western AmerIndian Boyz could get pretty nasty...... Remember seeing a tool called a "Slave Killer" for use in killing slaves at Potlaches....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potlatch

[monster_gardener]

The dozen or so reserves I'm most familiar with are ALL located in urban areas.

That does not answer either question.

Small note about style.

Ibrahim.


You're one of these posters who does cut and paste, point by point dissection. I hate this style of posting. This is lawyerese crap. Don't expect me to respond to it.

You don't respond because I'm correcting your false claims on a fact-by-fact, point-by-point basis and you are unable to respond.

If you are really interested in Natives or Native-White (and Native-Asian*) relations, there are lots of good books out there.

Yes, I have read some of them. This is why and how I am correcting you.

As always, I suggest going as close to the source as possible.

In terms of historical research my preference has always been for primary sources

Thank you for your post, Ibrahim.

You don't respond because I'm correcting your false claims on a fact-by-fact, point-by-point basis and you are unable to respond.

Sorry , But you act the same way when I do that to you Ibrahim!

[Typhoon]

From my tour of the Niagara region of Canada I learned that it was an alliance between a British army officer and an Indian leader that prevented Ontario from becoming another state of the US during the War of 1812.

[Ibrahim]

From my tour of the Niagara region of Canada I learned that it was an alliance between a British army officer and an Indian leader that prevented Ontario from becoming another state of the US during the War of 1812.

The War of 1812 was the last read grasp at organized military opposition against European colonization by the Northeastern First Nations, though it ultimately failed. Tecumseh is the most famous tragic hero of the entire conflict (which is loaded with tragic heroes).

[Jnalum Persicum]

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O7lBELCD74k


Ok, folks

What you sayin about what these 2 guys sayin ? ?

Apollonius sayin they ranting

Monster, IYO, they ranting or they have a valid case ? ?


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[Apollonius]

Another stereotype that needs to be demolished is the idea that all Canadian Indians are poor. This is nonsense. Unlike America, which tended to push its Native peoples onto less desirable land, Canadian Indians were almost always left on the spot.

This is a flagrantly false claim. While true in some examples, particularly in the Pacific region to which your new studies may be confined, or in the far arctic, but in the Eastern regions of the country First Nations groups were relocated extensively, and places in far-flung communities with poor or non-existent services.

A flagrantly false claim which is true in some cases? Interesting way of putting it.

My claim is that many Indian bands are RICH, and that furthermore, there is a vast disparity of wealth between what the Tsimshian call smkiket 'real people' and liqakiket 'other people', much less wah'a'ayin 'unhealed people' or 'people without origin', or xa - slaves. This is a fact. Why can't you accept it?

While true in some examples, particularly in the Pacific region to which your new studies may be confined, or in the far arctic, ...

No, it is not confined to the Pacific region or the Arctic. It also applies to the sub-Arctic, i.e., more than half the country in that region alone. The instances you are referring to are the oddity in Canada, and even in these cases, if you get to investigating closely, I think you'd be surprised at what you'd find. You need to dig a little, Ibrahim.


Most relocations in Canada were at the request of Natives themselves. One of the most famous is one I am intimately acquainted with, an oddity within oddities. This relates to the Tsimshian of British Columbia, a whole contingent of which broke off to move to Annette Island in Alaska (on formerly Tlingit territory-- things really start to get complicated if you get close to the situation*).

Most Native relocation schemes in the North have been motivated by the desire of the people themselves needing to set up somewhere out of a flood plain, or to consolidate otherwise far-flung camps (in most instances calling them villages would be stretching it), or because one faction couldn't stand to be around the other faction and wanted to establish themselves in a different location.




And no, these studies of mine are not new. I've gained some renewed interest lately, but I grew up with these people. I've been immersed in Northwest Coast linguistics, archaeology, and cultural studies since before you were born.







* For a number of years I lived just south of Ketchikan, within easy walking distance of one of the largest and most famous collections of totem poles in the world, which is located at Saxman. There's a good beach near there, a protected spot where you could beach your boat, and there'd always be a party of guys coming over from Metlakatla to stock up on booze, which is not available on the reservation.

Metlakatla is interesting in that it, like the Jesuit missions in Paraguay, it was founded as a Christian utopian society (hence, it is, of course, dry**). As with Paraguay, though, there's been a lot of in-fighting between the various factions and things haven't really worked out perfectly. It has come to violence, although not full scale war.




** Only in a legal sense. Climatologically speaking, this part of Alaska is of course one of the wettest places on planet Earth.

[Ibrahim]

Another stereotype that needs to be demolished is the idea that all Canadian Indians are poor. This is nonsense. Unlike America, which tended to push its Native peoples onto less desirable land, Canadian Indians were almost always left on the spot.

This is a flagrantly false claim. While true in some examples, particularly in the Pacific region to which your new studies may be confined, or in the far arctic, but in the Eastern regions of the country First Nations groups were relocated extensively, and places in far-flung communities with poor or non-existent services.

A flagrantly false claim which is true in some cases?

Not your original claim, I've highlighted the detail that exposes your lie. It is not in your interest to attempt such easily exposed deception.

My claim is that many Indian bands are RICH,

I asked you to name any, you declined. I know for a fact that the level of poverty endemic to reservations in Northern Ontario is staggering in comparison to the rest of the Canadian population, and though there is an inequality of distribution in the sense that the chief drives an SUV, it is suspicious and misleading of you to try and claim that they are "rich." Indeed, it seems like your goal here is to dishonestly blame the myriad problems of First Nations communities entirely on internal corruption. Which is something that has been tried many times before, but remains laughable.

Your attempted apologism for the Residential School system (now located in Hell) also suggests that you have sinister motivations in your largely counter-factual and misleading discussion of this subject. But rather than speculate on that I will confine myself largely to correct your false claims and further false revision or defense of those claims.

and that furthermore, there is a vast disparity of wealth between what the Tsimshian call smkiket 'real people' and liqakiket 'other people', much less wah'a'ayin 'unhealed people' or 'people without origin', or xa - slaves. This is a fact. Why can't you accept it?

Did I anywhere dispute that this was a distinction in their traditional culture? It would appear that your implication that you are correcting me on this point is another poorly-conceived lie. Please provide any quote by me that you believe justifies this response.

While true in some examples, particularly in the Pacific region to which your new studies may be confined, or in the far arctic, ...

No, it is not confined to the Pacific region or the Arctic. It also applies to the sub-Arctic, i.e., more than half the country in that region alone. The instances you are referring to are the oddity in Canada, and even in these cases, if you get to investigating closely, I think you'd be surprised at what you'd find. You need to dig a little, Ibrahim.

That or I am simply presenting information more honestly. Given the glaring flaws you've already made (corrected by me and subsequently ignored by you) I think any hope you've had of passing yourself off as an authority are long gone.

And no, these studies of mine are not new. I've gained some renewed interest lately, but I grew up with these people. I've been immersed in Northwest Coast linguistics, archaeology, and cultural studies since before you were born.

If this claim is true then your decision to transparently misrepresent facts is all the more inexplicable.

[Apollonius]

Is this the Canada thread or is this the Iran spams Canada thread?

[Apollonius]

And no, these studies of mine are not new. I've gained some renewed interest lately, but I grew up with these people. I've been immersed in Northwest Coast linguistics, archaeology, and cultural studies since before you were born.

If this claim is true then your decision to transparently misrepresent facts is all the more inexplicable.

You wouldn't know a fact if one hit you in the face.



Ibrahim, I'm interested in First Nations peoples for their languages, folklore, history, and art.



You are interested in aboriginal people for two reasons:


1) Aboriginal people are potential litigants, that is, prospective clients.


2) Aboriginal claims act as a distraction from the atrocities committed in the Islamic world, perhaps those committed by Turks in particular, who have one of the most sordid records on this of any people on earth-- you have to think about the Assyrians, Aztecs, Nazi Germany, Maoist China, or the Soviet Union to find comparable contempt for human life, and as amunition to be used against Canada and West. Though one of those who benefit the most from it, you appear to be a declared enemy of civilization.

[Typhoon]

Is this the Canada thread or is this the Iran spams Canada thread?

I thought Azari lived in Canada. One would not know it from his posts.

Never expected a Canada thread to generate so much controversy either.

[Ibrahim]

Ibrahim, I'm interested in First Nations peoples for their languages, folklore, history, and art.

Then why don't you know anything about them? And why are you misrepresenting their condition and contemporary society?

You are interested in aboriginal people for two reasons:


1) Aboriginal people are potential litigants, that is, prospective clients.

I have never had anything to do with aboriginal litigation.

2) Aboriginal claims act as a distraction from the atrocities committed in the Islamic world, perhaps those committed by Turks in particular,

I fail to see the connection, and your bringing this up and making this accusation is rather non sequitur and strange. I was merely addressing historical accuracy as it relates to Canadian history.

Though one of those who benefit the most from it, you appear to be a declared enemy of civilization.

Because I was correcting your false claims about First Nations history? I just want people to have factually correct information about my country. Odd that you find this so upsetting.

[Typhoon]

A quick cursory search reveals that at some some Canadian aboriginal tribes are doing well

GM | In oil sands, a native millionaire sees ‘economic force’ for first nations

By his tally, native-owned and controlled corporations now count more than $1-billion in annual revenues from the oil sands. Companies run by just three bands – the Fort McKay, Mikisew Cree and the Athabasca Chipewyan – bring in more than half a billion a year, while Primco Dene Ltd., a fast-growing oil patch services company owned by the Cold Lake First Nation, says it will employ 700 people, more than 500 of them aboriginal, this winter.

First nations people now commute from across western Canada to work as carpenters and scaffolders, housekeepers and receptionists, drivers and dry-cleaners – there is even a first nations-owned helicopter firm in Fort McMurray. The Northeastern Alberta Aboriginal Business Association, which counts Mr. Tuccaro as its founding president, has some 120 companies on its roster.

They are becoming increasingly important players. Take Primco, which does security, emergency, catering and housekeeping work. The company has opened a satellite office in Edmonton and is looking to open another in Saskatoon, both for recruitment.

The same search turns up an aboriginal owned winery in the Okanagan valley of B.C.

Nk'Mip Cellars and Spa

So it would appear that any blanket sweeping statements about aboriginal Canadians as a group have little meaning.

Some are doing quite well, others probably less so. My guess is that it varies greatly by tribe and by location.

[Crocus sativus]

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Is this the Canada thread or is this the Iran spams Canada thread ?

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I thought Azari lived in Canada. One would not know it from his posts.

Never expected a Canada thread to generate so much controversy either.

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Yes, Azari lives in Vancouver, Beautiful British Colombia, Canada .. and .. Azari is a humanist no matter where he lives

but

that does not answer the question how 90 million North American Indigini are now only 4 million

and in the meantime beating on poor Ibrahim for million or two Armenian

IMO, debating the First Nation plight in Canada is a legit Canadian thread subject .. and .. seems, Apollonius, quite knowledgeable about the subject .. why he not enlighten us "going point by point through that video" that I posted of the 2 chiefs in Tehran .. they have some grave accusations that should be addressed, either rejected or debated

this nothing to do with Iran .. a 100% legit Canadian subject

Apollonius, do the 2 chiefs have a valid case or they saying rubbish ?


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[Apollonius]

Apollonius, do the 2 chiefs have a valid case or they saying rubbish ?

Do you have a transcript? Again, I don't have time for your vid. I'm a reader, Azari. I know this material from the archives and from personal experience and I don't need some YouTube demagogue to tell me anything about it. The last place you will learn about Native Canadians or Native relations with others is on YouTube. What a junk heap. YouTube political videos are for dopes. Don't ruin your brain by watching them. You might as well listen to Mitt Romney or Barack Obama or Stephen Harper.

Azari, I listen to music, not politicians. Can't stand them. What a bunch of douchebags.

that does not answer the question how 90 million North American Indigini are now only 4 million

Let's review the population figures again. The maximum for the entire hemisphere in 1492 is probably about 30 million-- many experts give a total that is half that, or less; a figure of 10 million for the Western Hemisphere fits closer with what we can assertain from resource use studies. Over half of the grand total for the Americas lived the Aztec-Maya area or the part that was included the Inca Empire, c. 1500 with only a tiny fraction of the total living in Canada, probably on the order of about 200,000, with about half of them living in B.C.

The consensus of scholars who know this subject well is that about 200,000 lived on the Northwest Coast, with B.C. having no more than half that total, and the B.C. coast had a population density far exceeding anywhere else in Canada outside the St. Lawrence River Valley.


There were incidents of violence, although mostly it was Native on Native violence and when it was Native on Europeans, they had the best of it as often as not. Also, here on the coast, it is not true to say that Natives were deprived of their resource base. They continued to exploit this long after Europeans (and Asians) arrived, even, as I mentioned before, with the help of Japanese fishing boats confiscated during World War II. It's really over-fishing during the last thirty and forty years which depleted fisheries here.



Diseases were the culprits in Native population decline, as everywhere in the Western Hemisphere. On the Northwest Coast, because contact was so late compared to elsewhere, the progress of disease can be tracked in close detail, in wave after wave of epidemics. It's all a matter of the historical record-- which you are not interest in. You'd rather watch YouTube.


The diseases themselves are of Old World derivation, mostly Asian in origin, although African diseases were major culprits in tropical Americas (and even figured in epidemics in this region). So blame Africans. Or blame the Chinese. The hottest hotbed of disease incubation on planet Earth remains to this day southeast Asia and southern China. There are lots of perfectly straightforward reasons for this. This area has the highest biodiversity of any place on earth, with many micro-ecosystems, and numerous opportunities for humans to be in contact with a wide variety of wild animals and numerous humans to provide the contacts. You might as well blame the aboriginal peoples of Yunan province for the decline of the American Indian population: That's where half of the diseases they contracted originated.