Romney vs. Obama

[Enki]

Hey you guys, if Romney got elected, dissent would become patriotic again!


Hmmmmmmm.....

This is the best reason to hope for Romney over Obama, IMO. Nothing changes either way, but at least people protest when we aid and abet the assassination of a head of state to make sure Italy and France's oil price doesn't go up.

Italy was against that war because they had already locked up deals with Qadaffi. France and England were pushing for the war so those contracts would be null and void and they could move in for their own.

And we fell for it...

That's why I would love to put you out of a job. I feel like we are the world's useful durian.

[cincinnatus]

Hey you guys, if Romney got elected, dissent would become patriotic again!


Hmmmmmmm.....

This is the best reason to hope for Romney over Obama, IMO. Nothing changes either way, but at least people protest when we aid and abet the assassination of a head of state to make sure Italy and France's oil price doesn't go up.

Italy was against that war because they had already locked up deals with Qadaffi. France and England were pushing for the war so those contracts would be null and void and they could move in for their own.

And we fell for it...

That's why I would love to put you out of a job. I feel like we are the world's useful durian.

Yea well, I'd love to break up the duopoly parties and put you out of a job too

[Enki]

Yea well, I'd love to break up the duopoly parties and put you out of a job too

I am in marketing at a software startup. Break the duopoly and I'll have more business than ever.

[Juggernaut Nihilism]

Hey you guys, if Romney got elected, dissent would become patriotic again!


Hmmmmmmm.....

This is the best reason to hope for Romney over Obama, IMO. Nothing changes either way, but at least people protest when we aid and abet the assassination of a head of state to make sure Italy and France's oil price doesn't go up.

Italy was against that war because they had already locked up deals with Qadaffi. France and England were pushing for the war so those contracts would be null and void and they could move in for their own.

And we fell for it...

That'll teach me to fly off at the mouth with a simplistic narrative when a cincinnatus monster is lurking.

[cincinnatus]

That'll teach me to fly off at the mouth with a simplistic narrative when a cincinnatus monster is lurking.

No worries. You were right on the overall bottom line, just had the wrong dynamic duo

(besides, being married to a vocal Italiana for 14 years, I have a soft spot for Italy)

[Ibrahim]

Hey you guys, if Romney got elected, dissent would become patriotic again!


Hmmmmmmm.....

This is the best reason to hope for Romney over Obama, IMO. Nothing changes either way, but at least people protest when we aid and abet the assassination of a head of state to make sure Italy and France's oil price doesn't go up.

Italy was against that war because they had already locked up deals with Qadaffi. France and England were pushing for the war so those contracts would be null and void and they could move in for their own.

And we fell for it...

That's why I would love to put you out of a job. I feel like we are the world's useful durian.

It screws over the locals and non-Americans generally more often than not. Libya was one of the rare examples where spending some American ammunition and money made most people happy. How often is that really going to happen?

Aside from the rare pacifist who stays consistent, its funny watching dems and repubs oscillate between supporting and opposing wars based entirely on who is in power at the time. Republicans love torturing random Afghans and burning Iraqi children, but are shocked - SHOCKED - at the overthrow of Gaddafi. Dems decry the massive civilian casualties of the Bush-era wars, but ignore Obama's ongoing drone murders and continuation of the Afghan war, plus they love Libya. Oh, and defense contractors and oil companies only got rich when the other guy was President.

Obviously there are individuals who will buck the party line on these things, but it remains the party line. No option for change in this election either.

[Ibrahim]

Hey you guys, if Romney got elected, dissent would become patriotic again!


Hmmmmmmm.....

This is the best reason to hope for Romney over Obama, IMO. Nothing changes either way, but at least people protest when we aid and abet the assassination of a head of state to make sure Italy and France's oil price doesn't go up.

Italy was against that war because they had already locked up deals with Qadaffi. France and England were pushing for the war so those contracts would be null and void and they could move in for their own.

And we fell for it...

Fell for it again. At least Iraq benefited American petrocorps. On the upside this one was over in months not years, and the US didn't deploy ground troops to pose for torture porn. If I were a Republican the third debate would have scared the hell out of me, given that Romney seemed favorable to all of Obama's foreign policy, plus was making noise about getting more involved in Syria. There isn't even any oil in Syria!

[monster_gardener]

Hey you guys, if Romney got elected, dissent would become patriotic again!


Hmmmmmmm.....

This is the best reason to hope for Romney over Obama, IMO. Nothing changes either way, but at least people protest when we aid and abet the assassination of a head of state to make sure Italy and France's oil price doesn't go up.

Italy was against that war because they had already locked up deals with Qadaffi. France and England were pushing for the war so those contracts would be null and void and they could move in for their own.

And we fell for it...

Fell for it again. At least Iraq benefited American petrocorps. On the upside this one was over in months not years, and the US didn't deploy ground troops to pose for torture porn. If I were a Republican the third debate would have scared the hell out of me, given that Romney seemed favorable to all of Obama's foreign policy, plus was making noise about getting more involved in Syria. There isn't even any oil in Syria!

Thank you Very Much for your post, Ibrahim.

There isn't even any oil in Syria!

Wrong...........

Syrian oil exploration first began in 1933 during the French Mandate and the first commercial discovery was in 1956.[27] The industry took off in 1968, when Syria's first commercial oil field began production, although Syria did not begin exporting oil until the mid-1980s.[28] Syria is a relatively small oil producer, accounting for just 0.5 percent of the global production in 2010.[29][30] Although Syria is not a major oil exporter by Middle Eastern standards, oil is a major pillar of the economy. According to the International Monetary Fund, oil sales for 2010 were projected to generate $3.2 billion for the Syrian government and account for 25.1% of the state's revenue.[31]

Syria is the only significant crude oil producing country in the Eastern Mediterranean region, which includes Jordan, Lebanon, Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza. According to the Oil and Gas Journal, Syria had 2,500,000,000 barrels (400,000,000 m3) of petroleum reserves as of 1 January 2010.[32] Syria's known oil reserves are mainly in the eastern part of the country in the Deir ez-Zor Governorate near its border with Iraq and along the Euphrates River; a number of smaller fields are located in the center of the country.[27] In 2010, Syria produced around 385,000 barrels (61,200 m3) per day of crude oil.[30][31]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Syria#Oil

[Mr. Perfect]

It screws over the locals and non-Americans generally more often than not. Libya was one of the rare examples where spending some American ammunition and money made most people happy. How often is that really going to happen?

Yeah, tell that to the people who lost loved ones in the terrorist attack.

Aside from the rare pacifist who stays consistent, its funny watching dems and repubs oscillate between supporting and opposing wars based entirely on who is in power at the time. Republicans love torturing random Afghans and burning Iraqi children, but are shocked - SHOCKED - at the overthrow of Gaddafi.

Actually Obama was pressured mainly by Republicans to get into Libya. Sarah Palin, Karl Rove, Richard Perle, Rush Limbaugh etc. You've got a real non-factual on your hands.

Dems decry the massive civilian casualties of the Bush-era wars, but ignore Obama's ongoing drone murders and continuation of the Afghan war, plus they love Libya. Oh, and defense contractors and oil companies only got rich when the other guy was President.

You are certainly right here, I'll give you credit. Democrats are incredibly morally and intellectually bankrupt people.

Obviously there are individuals who will buck the party line on these things, but it remains the party line. No option for change in this election either.

Not since Obama became a neocon.

[monster_gardener]

Yes, your unflappable civility is often an inspiration and an admonition to me.

But I think you are kind of on point. Though, to be honest, I would say that Michael Bloomberg is one of the least corrupt mayors we've ever had. This is because his personal wealth and power that transcends the seat of the Mayoralty gives him a lot of leverage. He was able to get re-elected for the third term because the Democrats put up the most milquetoast candidate that they could find Bill Thompson. The only thing I ever heard him harp on was how he was going to replace Ray Kelly the commissioner of police. After the record of Giuliani, Ray Kelly was a breath of fresh air compared to Bernie Kerik, and crime was down, way down. In the last term, Mike and Ray have exceeded Rudy and Bernie in the police brutality department by an order of magnitude. So it seemed like the cornerstone of Bill Thompson's plank was, "I am going to get rid of this competent technocrat and put in my own cronies at the NYPD.", otherwise he offered very little. I told a friend of mine who was a political operative on that campaign about this failure of messaging and he couldn't really see it. There is a different world between the stump speech given at the senior center and the Democratic clubs and what you see in debates on TV. As I was disconnected from local politics at that time, I only saw the mainstream version and Bill Thompson came off as an durian, so I voted for Bloomberg and this was the experience of a few people I know. At this point Bloomberg is a very controversial and divisive candidate in New York. Hurricane Sandy is going to be the thing he is remembered for. This is his 9/11 moment and he's not coming across as the hero that Rudy did. A lot of people are grumbling about poor people in NYCHA houses being left behind by emergency relief efforts. I think it has more to do with people just not being happy with how they are triaging their resources. Quite clearly everyone who gets pushed down the list is going to be pissed off about that. Now with police and EMTs being requisitioned for the marathon on Sunday, it's a position that is really pissing a lot of people off. Bloomberg was re-elected because he had a much better shine as a competent technocrat in 2009, now, he's got the brutality of Occupy, Stop and Frisk is a mainstream issue, and his response to Sandy is probably not going to leave this city happy with him. But most of these things are the sorts of internal issues that only people who care about those issues or live in New York will remember him for.

Thank you VERY MUCH for your post and especially for your VERY KIND Words, Tinker/Enki.

I am going to have to try harder to live up to my reputation when I am tempted to go Rogue off the Reservation......

Thank you also for being a prime mover of the colonization off Spengler World... at least we know who among the Super Heroes here are the Mods... even if for the most part not their secret identities with exception of Lord Carbizene Defender of Oz.......... which is how it should be

And for teaching me things I might not have learned about till later if at all such as 3D printing..............

And for correctly pointing out that if true Liberty is taken to its Logical Libertarian conclusion...... What's the big hairy deal about Public Nudity .......... I'm up for that * .....

Joking Aside, Thank you for Being a Friend.

KiQzUEc_FmI


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiQzUEc_FmI

And despite our differences, Lord Willing we will be voting for the same person Tuesday...... Gary Johnson.....
Probably with the same effect though different polarity...........


* if not for Free Dung Freedom .......

[Juggernaut Nihilism]

I got in a lot of trouble with Ibs for worrying about whether black folks might riot over a court decision they disliked when Trayvon was in the news, but it's nice to see that I've been joined in the ranks of abominable racists by Bill Maher:

"If you're thinking about voting for Mitt Romney, I would like to make this one plea: black people know who you are and they will come after you."

[Taboo]

Skw-0jv9kts

[monster_gardener]

Skw-0jv9kts

Thank You Very Much for your post, Taboo ST

Very Interesting video. Reminded me of the Jay Leno's Jaywalk Interviews but more thoughtful.....

I think he might have changed 1 or 2 minds...........

ObamaCare seemed to be a significant factor in keeping the ignorant loyal.........

Wonder how well they understand that too....

Also Obama's Charisma/Reputation & Party/Philosophy Loyalty.........

Would be interesting to see the interview polarity reversed........

[Jnalum Persicum]

.

.
Rabbi Dov Zakheim served as the under secretary of defense (comptroller) and chief financial officer for the Department of Defense (DOD) from 2001-2004.In addition to serving in several DOD posts since 1981, Rabbi Zakheim was teaching as an adjunct professor at the National War College, Yeshiva University, Columbia University, and Trinity College in Hartford, Ct., He has served on a number of government, corporate, non-profit, and charitable boards and authored number of books and articles.
.

.

One of the favorite canards that Obama activists and surrogates hurl at Mitt Romney is that he is surrounded by a group of wild-eyed George W. Bush neo-cons who cannot wait to bomb Iran and bring America into yet another Middle Eastern conflict….”

But these canard-disseminators “have it all wrong,” because:

“None of the staunchest ‘architects and advocates’ of the Iraq war, I repeat, none, is advising Governor Romney. Not Donald Rumsfeld. Not Dick Cheney. Not Paul Wolfowitz. Not Doug Feith. And none of their camp followers. None.”

Zakheim modestly leaves out … himself. Yet he has long been a key link in the chain that has bound Republican policymakers to that noxious little sect known as the neoconservatives.

Alongside the very neocons he denies have any influence in RomneyWorld, Zakheim joined the Committee for Peace and Security in the Gulf, a neocon front group organized in 1990 to support the first Gulf war: in 1998, CPSG issued a new clarion call for an invasion of Iraq addressed to President Bill, with the Usual Suspects (including Zakheim) as co-signers. Zakheim’s career as an up-and-comer in neoconservative precincts continued with the formation of the Project for a New American Century – Bill Kristol’s interventionist pressure group – on whose behalf he signed a series of open letters calling for war with Iraq. As recently as February, Zakheim continued his letter-signing spree, demanding – along with dozens of fellow neocon “camp followers” – that the President intervene in a vague-but-more-muscular fashion in Syria. In 2000, he co-authored a PNAC position paper on defense spending which called for a huge increase on the grounds that “the best defense is a good offense.” He shared credit for this proposal with Wolfowitz, Cohen, John Bolton, and Rumsfeld advisors Devon Cross and I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby. As Undersecretary of State and Pentagon comptroller during the Bush administration – during which time the Pentagon lost track of $1 trillion — he was a key cog in a foreign policy shop dominated by his fellow neocons.

more @ link

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poor Joe , shafted to the balls



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[Simple Minded]

Aside from the rare pacifist who stays consistent, its funny watching dems and repubs oscillate between supporting and opposing wars based entirely on who is in power at the time. Republicans love torturing random Afghans and burning Iraqi children, but are shocked - SHOCKED - at the overthrow of Gaddafi. Dems decry the massive civilian casualties of the Bush-era wars, but ignore Obama's ongoing drone murders and continuation of the Afghan war, plus they love Libya. Oh, and defense contractors and oil companies only got rich when the other guy was President.

Obviously there are individuals who will buck the party line on these things, but it remains the party line. No option for change in this election either.

True nuff! Always amusing to see how many claim they are motivated by ideology, but have no problems being oppressed by one-of-their-own, or have no problems when one-of-their-own are performing acts they previously opposed.

People often overlook the misconduct of "us" more than the misconduct of "them."

The quest for group think/group power holds sway over ideology more often than not.

[Torchwood]

I have been musing about the contrast between the two candidates and Bill Clinton. yes, Bill was lucky in his timing - he could take no credit for being POTUS when America was unchallenged superpower, or that the FIRE economy was chugging along nicely and yet to blow up. Yet one thing he could do was communicate right across the spectrum: he was the good ol'boy from Arkansas, a black man in a white skin, or the sophisticated Oxford graduate, and he could play all those roles when required.

Contrast that with the current candidates - not 'cos he's black, but because he's an aloof academic; and the other one can barely communicate with anyone, and certainly not with the vast majority of non-mainstream non-whites. No wonder that the electorate is polarised and unenthusiastic, and it has nothing to do with policies, which will hardly change whoever is POTUS.

[Ibrahim]

I got in a lot of trouble with Ibs for worrying about whether black folks might riot over a court decision they disliked when Trayvon was in the news, but it's nice to see that I've been joined in the ranks of abominable racists by Bill Maher:

"If you're thinking about voting for Mitt Romney, I would like to make this one plea: black people know who you are and they will come after you."

You said a lot more than that, but lets stay on topic.

The difference here is that one is a comedian and one is some angry nobody with a basement full of guns. But I've noted that American racists have a lot of trouble with standup comedians. I can't count the number of times some complete redneck has posted a link to that Chris Rock "there's black folks and then there's niggers" routine to justify using the word as much as they like. Not that people can't say what they want, but modern-day American conservatives want it both ways. They want to be racist, and say racist things, but be called heroes and truth-tellers instead of cliche throwbacks to 1960's segregationists. Its the endless search for some kind of technicality by which they can avoid being judged on their choice of words. Not the desire for free speech but the refusal to take responsibility for their speech or themselves.


All of this reflects the particularly racist tone of the 2010 and 2012 campaigns. Not only will this be more subdued in future campaigns, since a black candidate is unusual, but if Romney loses then the current GOP strategy of dog-whistle racism and playing only to the white male demographic will prove to be a failure. At which point the party will move on because as much as American conservatives hate minorities they hate losing even more. But if he wins it validates the strategy, even if demographics make it ineffective in the future.


Of course the election isn't about race to me. I'll think American conservatives are racist, homophobic, and misogynistic no matter what the outcome.

[Ibrahim]

I have been musing about the contrast between the two candidates and Bill Clinton. yes, Bill was lucky in his timing - he could take no credit for being POTUS when America was unchallenged superpower, or that the FIRE economy was chugging along nicely and yet to blow up. Yet one thing he could do was communicate right across the spectrum: he was the good ol'boy from Arkansas, a black man in a white skin, or the sophisticated Oxford graduate, and he could play all those roles when required.

Contrast that with the current candidates - not 'cos he's black, but because he's an aloof academic; and the other one can barely communicate with anyone, and certainly not with the vast majority of non-mainstream whites. No wonder that the electorate is polarised and unenthusiastic, and it has nothing to do with policies, which will hardly change whoever is POTUS.

It was the ability of Clinton to triangulate left and right wing economic positions, and effectively sell enough of the liberal social agenda, that frightened the Republicans into the strategy of complete partisan stonewalling that they have maintained ever since. And of course the Democrats were happy to reciprocate. Republicans realized that bipartisanship doesn't benefit them, so the successes of the Clinton era (regardless of how tied they were to Clinton's personal policies and leadership) was the beginning of the comically hyperpartisan age that American politics is present in.

But you are right to highlight Clinton's charisma and versatility as the means by which he was able to make that triangulation. Blair executed the same strategy in England. Though the same thing happened in Canada under Chretien, and he couldn't communicate in English or French, so the economic side might have had the greater impact.

[Torchwood]

Well, yes, Blair the great communicator who crossed party lines - and also a war criminal, but that is another story. But then in Europe there is a clear consensus, and hardly any difference between parties, of economic liberalism and social liberalism. We have discussed previously on other threads that there would be a clear gap for a mix of left wing economics + social conservatism, which would be a vote winner, but in Europe that is so shockingly unPC that it is left to the fascist fringe.

At least the GOP offers something different, which is extreme economic liberalism + social conservatism. It still seems a somewhat bizarre combination.

[Enki]

ZENtH3psXl4

Brutal campaign ad being put out by Climate Silence in swing states.

[Taboo]

I think someone is confusing a hurricane with MMGW. Fits with the narrative, I guess.

[Nonc Hilaire]

Brutal campaign ad being put out by Climate Silence in swing states.

Honestly, that is the stupidest ad I have seen yet. Climate change and hurricanes are not connected. If anything, global warming should decrease Atlantic hurricanes. They are caused by hot air from North Africa rapidly sucking up cool moisture from the Atlantic. If the Atlantic was warmer, the effect should be less violent.

All it does in underline Obama's failure to address climate change and assist storm victims.

[Enki]

Honestly, that is the stupidest ad I have seen yet. Climate change and hurricanes are not connected. If anything, global warming should decrease Atlantic hurricanes. They are caused by hot air from North Africa rapidly sucking up cool moisture from the Atlantic. If the Atlantic was warmer, the effect should be less violent.

I don't know how anyone can say this after it's been explained. It's like you don't even read the posts in the same threads you post in.

THE OCEAN LEVELS ARE HIGHER THUS STORM SURGE IS HIGHER. Get it?

All it does in underline Obama's failure to address climate change and assist storm victims.

No. Neither of these things are things that Obama has actually failed at.

[Hoosiernorm]

MMGW and MCPM don't mix


MCPM being Media Created Presidential Mythology

[Juggernaut Nihilism]

The election is over. The Panthers just beat the Redskins in their last home game before the poll. Looks like it's Romney/Ryan 2012-2016.