The gilded, polluting Presidency of BHO

[YMix]

Not really. Just broad minded thinking.

Not something I would associate with you. Then again, the Tea Party senators were just as quiet as the others about domestic surveillance in the USA, so maybe there's not that much difference between the Tea Party and the Republicans.

And now you do too. What is it like to become the thing you despise.

You tell me.

[Mr. Perfect]

Not something I would associate with you. Then again, the Tea Party senators were just as quiet as the others about domestic surveillance in the USA, so maybe there's not that much difference between the Tea Party and the Republicans.

You have to pick your spots.

You tell me.

I'm not what i despise. Personally I'm living the life of my dreams.

[Mr. Perfect]

Tell me about the moral bankruptcy ymix.

Obama today

#1 Barack Obama: "I think it’s important to understand that you can’t have 100 percent security and then have 100 percent privacy and zero inconvenience. We’re going to have to make some choices as a society."

Obama yesterday

#2 Barack Obama in 2007: "This Administration also puts forward a false choice between the liberties we cherish and the security we demand… That means no more illegal wire-tapping of American citizens. No more national security letters to spy on citizens who are not suspected of a crime. No more tracking citizens who do nothing more than protest a misguided war. No more ignoring the law when it is inconvenient. That is not who we are. And it is not what is necessary to defeat the terrorists… We will again set an example for the world that the law is not subject to the whims of stubborn rulers, and that justice is not arbitrary."

What a piece of $#!t.

[planctom]

Tell me about the moral bankruptcy ymix.

Obama today

#1 Barack Obama: "I think it’s important to understand that you can’t have 100 percent security and then have 100 percent privacy and zero inconvenience. We’re going to have to make some choices as a society."

Obama yesterday

#2 Barack Obama in 2007: "This Administration also puts forward a false choice between the liberties we cherish and the security we demand… That means no more illegal wire-tapping of American citizens. No more national security letters to spy on citizens who are not suspected of a crime. No more tracking citizens who do nothing more than protest a misguided war. No more ignoring the law when it is inconvenient. That is not who we are. And it is not what is necessary to defeat the terrorists… We will again set an example for the world that the law is not subject to the whims of stubborn rulers, and that justice is not arbitrary."

What a piece of $#!t.

Ah, those democrats...

"The entire moral edifice on which Obama built up his presidency and the values he espoused at the core of his "audacity of hope" when he began his long march to the White House five years ago - transparency, accountability, legitimacy, multilateralism, consensus - lie exposed today as a pack of lies.

The heart of the matter is that Obama is on the horns of the same dilemma as Bill Clinton found himself when, in a desperate ploy to deflect world attention from his strong libido, he fired cruise missiles at Kandahar in August 1998. .."
Obama's Monica moment
By M K Bhadrakumar

I can´t stop laughing these days, Mr P!!!

[Enki]

Those hypocritical lefties saying they are against the war state and then being for it. As opposed to those morally consistent righties who say they are for the war state and then being for it.

[Ibrahim]

Its a question of what's important to the base. Democrats are just happy to win, so they are backing Obama, who is a war criminal as disgusting as Bush II was, because he's their guy and he's in the top spot. Murdered brown children and domestic spying are incidental. Republicans like to win, but when they can't they like to stand on principle, and Republicans like the military, murdering browns, and domestic spying on principle.

[Mr. Perfect]

Those hypocritical lefties saying they are against the war state and then being for it.

They were lying when they said they were against it.

As opposed to those morally consistent righties who say they are for the war state and then being for it.

No one has ever taken it as far as Obama.

[cincinnatus]

Impeach???? For what...so those liberty-lovng Repubs can swoop in and do...the...same...thing? The proposal, funding approval and authorities for the hardware, personnel and work spaces would have to originate at least 5-years before some of these programs (PRISM, data centers, specific parsing programs) have been reported to have begun (2007). That's just flat-out how the government acquisition system works (and 5-years is optimistic!!). How about just repealing the Patriot Act, passing legislation to outlaw some of these other programs, and get a lavender-ton of independent prosecutors to investigate (sure as f-ck can't trust Holder to do diddly)? No, the Repubs would crush any rogue true Conservatives or Libertarians who try to shut it down.

At this point the only hope is outright collapse or a meteor.

Typical spineless moderate thought processes. This kind of thinking is what enables these things to happen. At the end of the day moderates may be responsible for more evil than Mao types. Richard Nixon would have loved you.

Mr. P, by all means try and impeach. You may get it past the House, but tell me what happens in the Senate? Short of waterboarding McCain and Ms. Graham, how will you get the votes there? Even the most honorable Dem would let Obama get away with anything and not vote impeachment, and half the Repub caucus will support the NSA programs, Patriot Act, war without Congressional approval (Libya, now Syria), NDAA 2010, etc. For someone who cares about that stuff (as in the 1st, 4th and 5th Amendments), who exactly do you vote for? The Pauls seem to be on the right side of these issues, but so is Russ Feingold. Literally the only damn reason to vote R now is the 2nd. Everything else is just different shades of sh!t from either side (again, the Pauls excepted).

[noddy]

bushes TIA turned into obamas PRISM - the minor public scandal and alleged congress shutdown of TIA just triggered a bipartisan re-shuffling of those capabilities into new structures with a new name.

as much as i like mr p's attitude his ability to "rino" away the republican aspect of this is hard to grok.

[Ibrahim]

The Pauls seem to be on the right side of these issues,

Theoretically speaking the Pauls should be OK with this if the infrastructure was private and even moreso if the spies were private. Why can't I look at whatever signals are transmitted on my servers than I own as private property? Why can't I sell all your secrets transmitted on my servers to this tabloid? If you don't like it don't use my servers and don't buy that tabloid. One dollar, one vote, my friend.

[noddy]

The Pauls seem to be on the right side of these issues,

Theoretically speaking the Pauls should be OK with this if the infrastructure was private and even moreso if the spies were private. Why can't I look at whatever signals are transmitted on my servers than I own as private property? Why can't I sell all your secrets transmitted on my servers to this tabloid? If you don't like it don't use my servers and don't buy that tabloid. One dollar, one vote, my friend.

provided the REST of the freemarket highly competitive aspect of the Paul agenda is working nicely this is not an issue because the ability to vote with ones feet is a real and viable one.

its only a problem when you have oligopolies and monopolies with tight integration with government... which is a sympton of corruption in the freemarket world.

[Mr. Perfect]

Mr. P, by all means try and impeach. You may get it past the House, but tell me what happens in the Senate? Short of waterboarding McCain and Ms. Graham, how will you get the votes there? Even the most honorable Dem would let Obama get away with anything and not vote impeachment, and half the Repub caucus will support the NSA programs, Patriot Act, war without Congressional approval (Libya, now Syria), NDAA 2010, etc. For someone who cares about that stuff (as in the 1st, 4th and 5th Amendments), who exactly do you vote for? The Pauls seem to be on the right side of these issues, but so is Russ Feingold. Literally the only damn reason to vote R now is the 2nd. Everything else is just different shades of sh!t from either side (again, the Pauls excepted).

You're into false binary choices. You simply vote out everyone who is into this regardless of party. But as always, start at the top.

[Mr. Perfect]

bushes TIA turned into obamas PRISM - the minor public scandal and alleged congress shutdown of TIA just triggered a bipartisan re-shuffling of those capabilities into new structures with a new name.

as much as i like mr p's attitude his ability to "rino" away the republican aspect of this is hard to grok.

You guys are too much into false binary choices. Forget about the label and just vote out whoever is involved in this, impeach them, lynch them, whatever. Don't get into anything more complicated than individual men being held responsible for their own actions as individuals.

And make sure to start at the top.

[YMix]

Forget about the label

Coming from you...

[Mr. Perfect]

Ymix, I'm the least partisan person here. But the most honest about it. Not my fault.

[YMix]

Ymix, I'm the least partisan person here. But the most honest about it. Not my fault.

[Mr. Perfect]

Look at all you people falling all over yourselves to protect Obama by blaming Republicans. It's transparent and partisan.

Take off your filters ymix and hold the INDIVIDUAL who is responsible to account. Not some hypothetical other guy who may or may not do things at some future time. Let the scales fall from your eyes. Embrace morality and ethics. Hold an individual man responsible for his actions. And start at the top.

[YMix]

I don't see anybody defending Obama here. His guilt and dishonor are firmly established. I do, however, see you trying to pull the same old "Democrats are bad and that makes Republicans good" crap and getting upset because it's not working.

[Ibrahim]

I don't see anybody defending Obama here. His guilt and dishonor are firmly established.

I'm not following every detail here, but you'd almost think somebody was a desperate cynical troll.

[noddy]

bushes TIA turned into obamas PRISM - the minor public scandal and alleged congress shutdown of TIA just triggered a bipartisan re-shuffling of those capabilities into new structures with a new name.

as much as i like mr p's attitude his ability to "rino" away the republican aspect of this is hard to grok.

You guys are too much into false binary choices. Forget about the label and just vote out whoever is involved in this, impeach them, lynch them, whatever. Don't get into anything more complicated than individual men being held responsible for their own actions as individuals.

And make sure to start at the top.

dunno - the false binary choice is the obama being responsible one.

the ugly reality is that bushes TIA turned into obamas PRISM - the minor public scandal and alleged congress shutdown of TIA just triggered a bipartisan re-shuffling of those capabilities into new structures with a new name.

so.. fully agree we all need to hold those at the top responsible for their actions and remove them from power but that involves both parties in both houses for it does appear that this snoooping capability is one thing they both agree on.

goes for australia too - i dont have the ability to vote for the party that doesnt want to extend this capability,it doesnt exist.

[Mr. Perfect]

dunno - the false binary choice is the obama being responsible one.

Either way, Obama needs to be impeached. If you want to retroactively impeach Bush do what you feel is best.

the ugly reality is that bushes TIA turned into obamas PRISM - the minor public scandal and alleged congress shutdown of TIA just triggered a bipartisan re-shuffling of those capabilities into new structures with a new name.

I'm not going to parse all the details of the history, that may come out, but basically anyone who has their fingerprints on this needs to go, regardless of party. And we must start at the top.

so.. fully agree we all need to hold those at the top responsible for their actions and remove them from power but that involves both parties in both houses for it does appear that this snoooping capability is one thing they both agree on.

But we aren't and the result will be a Nazi/Soviet police state.

goes for australia too - i dont have the ability to vote for the party that doesnt want to extend this capability,it
doesnt exist.

You guys need to get party out of this. Just impeach who ever does it until someone comes in that stops it.

[Mr. Perfect]

I don't see anybody defending Obama here.

I don't see anyone not defending Obama here.

His guilt and dishonor are firmly established. I do, however, see you trying to pull the same old "Democrats are bad and that makes Republicans good" crap and getting upset because it's not working.

Citation needed. When you can't come up with a cite you will understand why everything you said can be dismissed.

[YMix]

I don't see anyone not defending Obama here.

Citation needed. When you can't come up with a cite you will understand why everything you said can be dismissed.

You must be trolling.

[Mr. Perfect]

I'm not the one accusing you of saying things you didn't say. If being truthful is trolling I'll troll all the live long day.

[Demon of Undoing]

I say we take shotguns to the people that are ok with it starting at the bottom. After all these traitors that were ok with the police state, surveillance and Orwell Grande are taken out and cored like an apple, the country won't be populated by terrorists and the right people will get elected. We've had them in place, but too many prefer good business and party affiliation to let them in.

I wonder if that's unequivocal condemnation enough. If not, I have this idea where we concentrate the problem in a small area. Maybe use trains.