Europe

[Doc]

Our friend David Spengler seems quite the prophet, don't you think.

He is a very good analyst when he loses the emotion. Probably the best I know. He can figure out what the pieces are, and put them together in the correct order. The idea is simply that you follow the facts where ever they lead. You listen to others ideas to contrast against your own without automatically judging your superior. When he does it really well that is how David Goldman does it. However when things get too near and dear, and you can't set aside the emotion, the analysis suffers.

[Heracleum Persicum]

.


France & Rwandan genocide

[Azrael]

Our friend David Spengler seems quite the prophet, don't you think.

He is a very good analyst when he loses the emotion. Probably the best I know. He can figure out what the pieces are, and put them together in the correct order. The idea is simply that you follow the facts where ever they lead. You listen to others ideas to contrast against your own without automatically judging your superior. When he does it really well that is how David Goldman does it. However when things get too near and dear, and you can't set aside the emotion, the analysis suffers.

I'm afraid I must disagree. Even when he isn't getting emotional, he's a bad analyst. He gets basic facts wrong.

In a column a few days ago he said "Remember that Putin threw his Serb allies under the bus during the wag-the-dog war of 1998 when NATO backed the secession of Kosovo." Putin didn't become Prime Minister until 9 August 1999, after the war was already over, and didn't become acting President until 31 December 1999. How can Goldman be taken seriously when he gets very basic, very easy to check facts wrong?

[Doc]

Our friend David Spengler seems quite the prophet, don't you think.

He is a very good analyst when he loses the emotion. Probably the best I know. He can figure out what the pieces are, and put them together in the correct order. The idea is simply that you follow the facts where ever they lead. You listen to others ideas to contrast against your own without automatically judging your superior. When he does it really well that is how David Goldman does it. However when things get too near and dear, and you can't set aside the emotion, the analysis suffers.

I'm afraid I must disagree. Even when he isn't getting emotional, he's a bad analyst. He gets basic facts wrong.

In a column a few days ago he said "Remember that Putin threw his Serb allies under the bus during the wag-the-dog war of 1998 when NATO backed the secession of Kosovo." Putin didn't become Prime Minister until 9 August 1999, after the war was already over, and didn't become acting President until 31 December 1999. How can Goldman be taken seriously when he gets very basic, very easy to check facts wrong?

It has been a while since I read any of his articles. Speaking Strictly of the past I guess.

[Taboo]

Our friend David Spengler seems quite the prophet, don't you think.

He is a very good analyst when he loses the emotion. Probably the best I know. He can figure out what the pieces are, and put them together in the correct order. The idea is simply that you follow the facts where ever they lead. You listen to others ideas to contrast against your own without automatically judging your superior. When he does it really well that is how David Goldman does it. However when things get too near and dear, and you can't set aside the emotion, the analysis suffers.

I'm afraid I must disagree. Even when he isn't getting emotional, he's a bad analyst. He gets basic facts wrong.

In a column a few days ago he said "Remember that Putin threw his Serb allies under the bus during the wag-the-dog war of 1998 when NATO backed the secession of Kosovo." Putin didn't become Prime Minister until 9 August 1999, after the war was already over, and didn't become acting President until 31 December 1999. How can Goldman be taken seriously when he gets very basic, very easy to check facts wrong?

Ouch. He actually said that?

[noddy]

Voting began on Sunday in a referendum on whether Venice and its surrounding region should secede from the rest of Italy, in a bid to restore its 1,000-year history as a sovereign republic.
“La Serenissima” – or the Most Serene Republic of Venice – was an independent trading power for a millennium before the last doge, or leader, was deposed by Napoleon in 1797.
The republic encompassed not just Venice but what is now the surrounding region of Veneto and it is there that the vote will take place from Sunday until Friday.
Campaigners have been inspired by the example of Scotland, which will hold its referendum on independence from the rest of the UK in September, and Catalonia, where around half the population say they want to break away from Spain.

hot dawg the EU is bringing people together - hard for me not to hope that australia catches up with this in a decade or so, maybe should start a proposal to join with new zealand and the small south pacific nations to accelerate it hehehehahhahaha hoohhooh.. sigh.

[Endovelico]

Italy Splitting? Venice Votes for Secession, Is Sardinia Next?
Sardinian Movement Seeks Accession Into Switzerland
by Jason Ditz, March 23, 2014

Secessionist sentiment seems to be hugely on the rise in Italy, and at this rate the nation may soon be sloughing off autonomous regions like skin flakes, with Venice virtually out the door.

A week-long referendum in the area around Venice proposed the idea of reforming the Repubblica Veneta, which existed independently for centuries until its conquest by Napoleon and military annexation by Austria. Strong turnout was reported and 89 percent of the votes were in favor of secession.

The vote was non-binding, but the overwhelming nature of the vote suggest self-rule may be inevitable in Venice, and is going to be virtually impossible for Italy to ignore.

Sardinia may not be far behind. The autonomous region, itself independent for centuries before the formation of Italy, isn’t looking to go it alone like Venice, however, and activists are suggesting an accession into Switzerland, suggesting that as a way out of both Italy and the EU for the economically struggling region.

These multiple independence movements throughout Europe are a sure sign of frustration about Europe but not against Europe. Europeans in general are tired of being treated like idiots by their governments and by the European Union, and being dragged by the US into adventures abroad and policies harmful to long term European interests. Faced with incompetent governments and a weak EU, many Europeans try and find refuge in separatism. Maybe smaller, more cohesive countries could rule themselves better. But, in the end, a more lasting solution may be found in a new European Confederacy in which larger countries are split into four or five smaller entities. Spain could be split into four or five different countries, and so could France, Germany, Italy and the UK. With forty or so autonomous states, an European Confederacy would not be ruled by any of its components, and could become a king size Switzerland. On the other hand, by assuming greater defense responsibilities, such a Confederacy could finally invite the US to leave Europe altogether, and dismantle an useless and dangerous NATO. Hopefully a multiplication of independence referenda will force Europe to take a serious look at its future, and find the way to a Confederacy as described above.

[Nonc Hilaire]

Italy Splitting? Venice Votes for Secession, Is Sardinia Next?
Sardinian Movement Seeks Accession Into Switzerland
by Jason Ditz, March 23, 2014

Secessionist sentiment seems to be hugely on the rise in Italy, and at this rate the nation may soon be sloughing off autonomous regions like skin flakes, with Venice virtually out the door.

A week-long referendum in the area around Venice proposed the idea of reforming the Repubblica Veneta, which existed independently for centuries until its conquest by Napoleon and military annexation by Austria. Strong turnout was reported and 89 percent of the votes were in favor of secession.

The vote was non-binding, but the overwhelming nature of the vote suggest self-rule may be inevitable in Venice, and is going to be virtually impossible for Italy to ignore.

Sardinia may not be far behind. The autonomous region, itself independent for centuries before the formation of Italy, isn’t looking to go it alone like Venice, however, and activists are suggesting an accession into Switzerland, suggesting that as a way out of both Italy and the EU for the economically struggling region.

These multiple independence movements throughout Europe are a sure sign of frustration about Europe but not against Europe. Europeans in general are tired of being treated like idiots by their governments and by the European Union, and being dragged by the US into adventures abroad and policies harmful to long term European interests. Faced with incompetent governments and a weak EU, many Europeans try and find refuge in separatism. Maybe smaller, more cohesive countries could rule themselves better. But, in the end, a more lasting solution may be found in a new European Confederacy in which larger countries are split into four or five smaller entities. Spain could be split into four or five different countries, and so could France, Germany, Italy and the UK. With forty or so autonomous states, an European Confederacy would not be ruled by any of its components, and could become a king size Switzerland. On the other hand, by assuming greater defense responsibilities, such a Confederacy could finally invite the US to leave Europe altogether, and dismantle an useless and dangerous NATO. Hopefully a multiplication of independence referenda will force Europe to take a serious look at its future, and find the way to a Confederacy as described above.

"The Borgias" is running on Netflix now. That should provide some dissuasion of provincialism in Italy.

[Doc]

Italy Splitting? Venice Votes for Secession, Is Sardinia Next?
Sardinian Movement Seeks Accession Into Switzerland
by Jason Ditz, March 23, 2014

Secessionist sentiment seems to be hugely on the rise in Italy, and at this rate the nation may soon be sloughing off autonomous regions like skin flakes, with Venice virtually out the door.

A week-long referendum in the area around Venice proposed the idea of reforming the Repubblica Veneta, which existed independently for centuries until its conquest by Napoleon and military annexation by Austria. Strong turnout was reported and 89 percent of the votes were in favor of secession.

"IF City States were good enough for my 997th great grand father twice removed then they are good enough for me"

The vote was non-binding, but the overwhelming nature of the vote suggest self-rule may be inevitable in Venice, and is going to be virtually impossible for Italy to ignore.

Sardinia may not be far behind. The autonomous region, itself independent for centuries before the formation of Italy, isn’t looking to go it alone like Venice, however, and activists are suggesting an accession into Switzerland, suggesting that as a way out of both Italy and the EU for the economically struggling region.

These multiple independence movements throughout Europe are a sure sign of frustration about Europe but not against Europe. Europeans in general are tired of being treated like idiots by their governments and by the European Union, and being dragged by the US into adventures abroad and policies harmful to long term European interests. Faced with incompetent governments and a weak EU, many Europeans try and find refuge in separatism. Maybe smaller, more cohesive countries could rule themselves better. But, in the end, a more lasting solution may be found in a new European Confederacy in which larger countries are split into four or five smaller entities. Spain could be split into four or five different countries, and so could France, Germany, Italy and the UK. With forty or so autonomous states, an European Confederacy would not be ruled by any of its components, and could become a king size Switzerland. On the other hand, by assuming greater defense responsibilities, such a Confederacy could finally invite the US to leave Europe altogether, and dismantle an useless and dangerous NATO. Hopefully a multiplication of independence referenda will force Europe to take a serious look at its future, and find the way to a Confederacy as described above.

[Heracleum Persicum]

Italy Splitting? Venice Votes for Secession, Is Sardinia Next?
Sardinian Movement Seeks Accession Into Switzerland
by Jason Ditz, March 23, 2014

Secessionist sentiment seems to be hugely on the rise in Italy, and at this rate the nation may soon be sloughing off autonomous regions like skin flakes, with Venice virtually out the door.

A week-long referendum in the area around Venice proposed the idea of reforming the Repubblica Veneta, which existed independently for centuries until its conquest by Napoleon and military annexation by Austria. Strong turnout was reported and 89 percent of the votes were in favor of secession.

"IF City States were good enough for my 997th great grand father twice removed then they are good enough for me"

The vote was non-binding, but the overwhelming nature of the vote suggest self-rule may be inevitable in Venice, and is going to be virtually impossible for Italy to ignore.

Sardinia may not be far behind. The autonomous region, itself independent for centuries before the formation of Italy, isn’t looking to go it alone like Venice, however, and activists are suggesting an accession into Switzerland, suggesting that as a way out of both Italy and the EU for the economically struggling region.

These multiple independence movements throughout Europe are a sure sign of frustration about Europe but not against Europe. Europeans in general are tired of being treated like idiots by their governments and by the European Union, and being dragged by the US into adventures abroad and policies harmful to long term European interests. Faced with incompetent governments and a weak EU, many Europeans try and find refuge in separatism. Maybe smaller, more cohesive countries could rule themselves better. But, in the end, a more lasting solution may be found in a new European Confederacy in which larger countries are split into four or five smaller entities. Spain could be split into four or five different countries, and so could France, Germany, Italy and the UK. With forty or so autonomous states, an European Confederacy would not be ruled by any of its components, and could become a king size Switzerland. On the other hand, by assuming greater defense responsibilities, such a Confederacy could finally invite the US to leave Europe altogether, and dismantle an useless and dangerous NATO. Hopefully a multiplication of independence referenda will force Europe to take a serious look at its future, and find the way to a Confederacy as described above.

NATO to fight whom ? ? The Russians ? ? The Iranians ? ? other Europeans ? ? Brits or French or Spaniards or Germans ? ?

Come on

NATO morphed into a "colonial" tool

What has NATO to do in Afghanistan ? ?

NATO should be dismantled

[Endovelico]

EU weighs new approach towards Russia in wake of Ukraine crisis
By Justyna Pawlak

(Reuters) - European Union foreign ministers tried to map out a new strategy towards Russia at talks in Athens on Saturday, pledging to keep a tough stance over its tensions with Ukraine, while steering clear of provoking Moscow into further conflict.

Since Russia's annexation of the Ukrainian peninsula of Crimea, the European Union has imposed sanctions against the closest allies of President Vladimir Putin, and Group of Seven governments have suspended top-level contacts with Russia.

Further sanctions are being prepared in case the conflict escalates. But in the near term, the EU's 28 governments will have to balance the need to preserve stability to east of the bloc, while strengthening ties with former Soviet republics, a process that has drawn ire from Moscow.

Polish Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski said it was not in the European Union's interest to fuel confrontation with Russia, already at its highest since the Cold War.

"Unfortunately, Russia is forcing us to revise our approach, because of its actions," Sikorski told Reuters after the two-day meeting in the Greek capital, focused on EU's relations with Russia and neighbors to the east and south.

"We used to negotiate through peaceful means ... But Russia has moved beyond this framework, by its aggression towards Ukraine."

Swedish Foreign Minister Carl Bildt said further tensions with Russia were inevitable, as the EU prepares to sign trade deals with Georgia and Moldova by June, and to finalize closer economic ties with Ukraine.

Ukraine's plans to sign such a deal last year led Russia to persuade former Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovich to abandon them, causing popular protests in Kiev and the ousting of the pro-Russian president in February. Russia later seized Crimea.

Bildt said he was "quite certain" Putin would try to force Georgia and Moldova to drop plans for closer trade ties with Europe, just as he prevented Armenia last year from moving forward with a trade pact.

"There is no question whatsoever, and he will do the same with Ukraine. The plan is I think to sign these (pacts) in June. I don't that there is going to be applause in the Kremlin. There might be something else ... thunder," he told reporters.

The EU's foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton said diplomatic efforts to soothe tensions between Ukraine and Russia would continue.

"You will see over these coming days that we continue to engage with Russia, with the Ukrainian colleagues and the United States in making sure that we have a strong way forward," she told a news conference.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/ ... FU20140405

Europe's problems are wholly of its own doing. Having followed the idiotic confrontational US policies towards Russia, Europe finds itself now in a lose/lose situation. Europe needs not fearing Russia, it needs fearing the US. Europe and Russia are the perfect partners, where Russia has a lot of room and a lot of resources, and Europe has a lot of people and lots of know-how. An European-Russian economic and political association would create an incredibly influential Atlantic to Pacific zone which could guarantee peace and prosperity for their peoples for several centuries. The only country fearing such a development is the US and that's why they are torpedoing every chance of an agreement between Europe and Russia. And we seem to be blind or stupid enough not to see it. Will we ever have in Europe leaders smart enough to understand where our interest are?

[Parodite]

Europe's problems are wholly of its own doing. Having followed the idiotic confrontational US policies towards Russia, Europe finds itself now in a lose/lose situation. Europe needs not fearing Russia, it needs fearing the US. Europe and Russia are the perfect partners, where Russia has a lot of room and a lot of resources, and Europe has a lot of people and lots of know-how. An European-Russian economic and political association would create an incredibly influential Atlantic to Pacific zone which could guarantee peace and prosperity for their peoples for several centuries. The only country fearing such a development is the US and that's why they are torpedoing every chance of an agreement between Europe and Russia. And we seem to be blind or stupid enough not to see it. Will we ever have in Europe leaders smart enough to understand where our interest are?

Putin is from the old KGB church, mourns the disintegation of the old USSR empire and wants to restore as much as possible of it using force where possible. He persues a Greater Russia. I'm wholly in favor of creating clear boundaries and borders for these types of crazed little tzarist toddlers.

[Endovelico]

Europe's problems are wholly of its own doing. Having followed the idiotic confrontational US policies towards Russia, Europe finds itself now in a lose/lose situation. Europe needs not fearing Russia, it needs fearing the US. Europe and Russia are the perfect partners, where Russia has a lot of room and a lot of resources, and Europe has a lot of people and lots of know-how. An European-Russian economic and political association would create an incredibly influential Atlantic to Pacific zone which could guarantee peace and prosperity for their peoples for several centuries. The only country fearing such a development is the US and that's why they are torpedoing every chance of an agreement between Europe and Russia. And we seem to be blind or stupid enough not to see it. Will we ever have in Europe leaders smart enough to understand where our interest are?

Putin is from the old KGB church, mourns the disintegation of the old USSR empire and wants to restore as much as possible of it using force where possible. He persues a Greater Russia. I'm wholly in favor of creating clear boundaries and borders for these types of crazed little tzarist toddlers.

Is the tree is so important that you may ignore the forest?... You may not like Putin, but if you want to talk to Russia you know who to talk to. In Europe to whom do we talk?... To Obama?...

[Parodite]

Putin is from the old KGB church, mourns the disintegation of the old USSR empire and wants to restore as much as possible of it using force where possible. He persues a Greater Russia. I'm wholly in favor of creating clear boundaries and borders for these types of crazed little tzarist toddlers.

Is the tree is so important that you may ignore the forest?... You may not like Putin, but if you want to talk to Russia you know who to talk to. In Europe to whom do we talk?... To Obama?...

Europe should do all the talking IMO. With Obama and with Putin. Mewicans are not the brightest diplomats.

[Heracleum Persicum]

.


After his infamous “declaration” in 1917 Balfour, an ardent Zionist, wrote to Curzon:
..
“In Palestine we do not propose even to go through the form of consulting the wishes of the present inhabitants of the country. The four powers are committed to Zionism and Zionism, be it right or wrong, good or bad, is rooted in age-long tradition, in present needs, in future hopes, of far profounder import than the desires and prejudices of the 700,000 Arabs who now occupy that land.”

.

[monster_gardener]

Italy Splitting? Venice Votes for Secession, Is Sardinia Next?
Sardinian Movement Seeks Accession Into Switzerland
by Jason Ditz, March 23, 2014

Secessionist sentiment seems to be hugely on the rise in Italy, and at this rate the nation may soon be sloughing off autonomous regions like skin flakes, with Venice virtually out the door.

A week-long referendum in the area around Venice proposed the idea of reforming the Repubblica Veneta, which existed independently for centuries until its conquest by Napoleon and military annexation by Austria. Strong turnout was reported and 89 percent of the votes were in favor of secession.

The vote was non-binding, but the overwhelming nature of the vote suggest self-rule may be inevitable in Venice, and is going to be virtually impossible for Italy to ignore.

Sardinia may not be far behind. The autonomous region, itself independent for centuries before the formation of Italy, isn’t looking to go it alone like Venice, however, and activists are suggesting an accession into Switzerland, suggesting that as a way out of both Italy and the EU for the economically struggling region.

These multiple independence movements throughout Europe are a sure sign of frustration about Europe but not against Europe. Europeans in general are tired of being treated like idiots by their governments and by the European Union, and being dragged by the US into adventures abroad and policies harmful to long term European interests. Faced with incompetent governments and a weak EU, many Europeans try and find refuge in separatism. Maybe smaller, more cohesive countries could rule themselves better. But, in the end, a more lasting solution may be found in a new European Confederacy in which larger countries are split into four or five smaller entities. Spain could be split into four or five different countries, and so could France, Germany, Italy and the UK. With forty or so autonomous states, an European Confederacy would not be ruled by any of its components, and could become a king size Switzerland. On the other hand, by assuming greater defense responsibilities, such a Confederacy could finally invite the US to leave Europe altogether, and dismantle an useless and dangerous NATO. Hopefully a multiplication of independence referenda will force Europe to take a serious look at its future, and find the way to a Confederacy as described above.

Thank You Very Much for your post, Endovelico.

and being dragged by the US into adventures abroad and policies harmful to long term European interests.

Recalling the recent Libya GaDaffy Duck Hunt Fiasco*, I am tempted to feel likewise but in reverse.....

Uz being dragged by the Euroz into adventures abroad and policies harmful to long term American interests..........

Even Arrogant, Delusional, Incompetent, Lazy, LYING, Son of a Bitch Eater obama tried to resist getting pulled into that mess......

Which resulted in lots of Al Queda chaos & too many Americans dying later at Benghazi.......

But the Euroz got their way.....

And I do not blame the Euroz who were advancing their interests..........

As much as I do Arrogant, Delusional, Incompetent, Lazy, LYING, Son of a Bitch Eater Present Dunce obama for not saying "HELL NO!" *.....

And advancing US interests.....

Like maybe a tamed GaDaffy Duck & less chaos.......

Instead of being a Go Along Globalist
With the Euroz European Socialists
Which is what IMO he really wants Uz to be like

IMO, this is just one of the more recent examples of this stupidity......

Clintoon had his even more dangerous version of it in the Balkans*.......

Trying to stop Euroz from killing Euroz......

Which really may go back to WW1 itself.....

The War to End All Wars


*Like/where General Sir Mike Jackson of Britain effectively & properly told the wannabe American President Weaselly Clark oops I mean Wesley Clark....

[Endovelico]

MG,

You are right in your assessment of European stupidity in Libya. I'm afraid we have again the type of leaders who took us into WW I...

[Parodite]

A Europe where separatism means people demand separate countries based on local referenda instead of national ones.. is doomed. It just means deficient national democracies leading to armed revolts terrorism included, or old fashioned territorial warfare decided by the big powers.

I would never want to be part of any such a confederacy built on that monkey mentality. Further separatist demands will always be around the corner where other minorities will disagree with the status quo and rather live in separate territories with like-minded bros and sistahs'. Perfect regressions to a primordial tribal-ethnic world. Timer to change gun laws here in the Netherlands. I'll be on Mr. P's side entirely and just want to be able to shoot anyone that intrudes my private property or that of my clan.

But things have not eroded that far yet. The southerners however should be fenced off already, meaning Spain + crazyfancy Portugal and Italy. And most of Eastern-Europe that is still very instable and living in the 19th century as well. The West of the Ukraine can be adopted in the Euro-North family, lets hope the redundant East of the Ukraine gets aborted as soon as possible. Let Putin have and deal with the trash leftovers.

Time for the Euro-North to close its gates. Does the Euro-North need NATO? Probably not. The USA itself is regressing in every way and is increasingly unreliable. As somebody wrote long ago: "War is Gods way to teach Americans geography". But that time is over as resources for this type of education have dried up. Big Blab Talk is all the US will have left to impress others with. It will be gone with the wind.

[Simple Minded]

A Europe where separatism means people demand separate countries based on local referenda instead of national ones.. is doomed. It just means deficient national democracies leading to armed revolts terrorism included, or old fashioned territorial warfare decided by the big powers.

I would never want to be part of any such a confederacy built on that monkey mentality. Further separatist demands will always be around the corner where other minorities will disagree with the status quo and rather live in separate territories with like-minded bros and sistahs'. Perfect regressions to a primordial tribal-ethnic world. Timer to change gun laws here in the Netherlands. I'll be on Mr. P's side entirely and just want to be able to shoot anyone that intrudes my private property or that of my clan.

But things have not eroded that far yet. The southerners however should be fenced off already, meaning Spain + crazyfancy Portugal and Italy. And most of Eastern-Europe that is still very instable and living in the 19th century as well. The West of the Ukraine can be adopted in the Euro-North family, lets hope the redundant East of the Ukraine gets aborted as soon as possible. Let Putin have and deal with the trash leftovers.

Time for the Euro-North to close its gates. Does the Euro-North need NATO? Probably not. The USA itself is regressing in every way and is increasingly unreliable. As somebody wrote long ago: "War is Gods way to teach Americans geography". But that time is over as resources for this type of education have dried up. Big Blab Talk is all the US will have left to impress others with. It will be gone with the wind.

Amen Brother!

Just goes to show that the difference between the worst in Merika, and the best in Yurp ain't all that much after all......

Humans....... they're all like that!

[Heracleum Persicum]

.

President Vladimir Putin’s letter to leaders of European countries


4ZuUB_85KBU


Ukraine has not paid U$ 545 m gas payment a week ago

Putin has written to European leaders he turning gas flow off

Europe will end up paying for European AND Ukrainian Gas

.

[Endovelico]

A Europe where separatism means people demand separate countries based on local referenda instead of national ones.. is doomed. It just means deficient national democracies leading to armed revolts terrorism included, or old fashioned territorial warfare decided by the big powers.

I would never want to be part of any such a confederacy built on that monkey mentality. Further separatist demands will always be around the corner where other minorities will disagree with the status quo and rather live in separate territories with like-minded bros and sistahs'. Perfect regressions to a primordial tribal-ethnic world. Timer to change gun laws here in the Netherlands. I'll be on Mr. P's side entirely and just want to be able to shoot anyone that intrudes my private property or that of my clan.

But things have not eroded that far yet. The southerners however should be fenced off already, meaning Spain + crazyfancy Portugal and Italy. And most of Eastern-Europe that is still very instable and living in the 19th century as well. The West of the Ukraine can be adopted in the Euro-North family, lets hope the redundant East of the Ukraine gets aborted as soon as possible. Let Putin have and deal with the trash leftovers.

Time for the Euro-North to close its gates. Does the Euro-North need NATO? Probably not. The USA itself is regressing in every way and is increasingly unreliable. As somebody wrote long ago: "War is Gods way to teach Americans geography". But that time is over as resources for this type of education have dried up. Big Blab Talk is all the US will have left to impress others with. It will be gone with the wind.

Reading this post of yours reminds me of the time I lived in the Netherlands, when I sometimes came across some members of the self-appointed "übermensch" tribe... Some were German, some were Dutch, some were Scandinavian. But they always made me laugh. Specially as I was then in a leading position in the firm where I worked, and had some of those "übermensch" under my direction... No matter how much they tried, they never impressed me very much, and I always knew that the day would come when we would no longer need them or be dependent on them. We aren't there yet, but it shouldn't take too long anymore...

[monster_gardener]

MG,

You are right in your assessment of European stupidity in Libya. I'm afraid we have again the type of leaders who took us into WW I...

Thank You VERY MUCH for your post & Kind Words, Endovelico.

I'm afraid we have again the type of leaders who took us into WW I.

That may be an overly kind assessment in some cases

Especially for those who currently lead Uz

Woodrow Wilson may have been VERY Wrong about a lot of things but I believe he actually thought hard about them......

I suspect Arrogant, Delusional, Incompetent, Lazy, LYING, Willfully Stupid Son of a Bitch Eater obama too often just runs his Red Lined Mouthy Mouth to say whatever is convenient at the moment.

[Doc]

The future of Europe?

http://faminegenocide.com/resources/facts.html

Facts About the 1933 Famine-Genocide in Soviet Occupied Ukraine

1. Censuses

In late 1932 - precisely when the genocidal famine struck - the Central Statistical Bureau in Moscow ceased to publish demographic data.

The 1937 census was given top priority. The census director I. Kravel was awarded the Order of Lenin for his meticulous work. After the results of the 1937 census were submitted to the Government, the census was declared "subversive", its materials destroyed and the top census officials were shot for not finding enough people.

2. Harvest and Climatic Conditions

The "natural disaster" excuse to cover up the 1933 Famine-Genocide does not hold water. It was not caused by some natural calamity or crop failure:

The 1931 harvest was 18.3 million tons of grain.
The 1932 harvest was 14.6 million tons of grain.
The 1933 harvest was 22.3 million tons of grain.
The 1934 harvest was 12.3 million tons of grain.

In 1934 during the poorest harvest - a mere 12.3 - there was no massive famine because Stalin reduced the grain requisition quotas and even released grain from existing "state stockpiles" to feed the population.

The highest death rates were in the grain growing provinces of Poltava, Dnipropetrovsk, Kirovohrad and Odessa: usually 20-25%, although higher in many villages.

3. Laws and Decrees

The 7 August 1932 law drafted by Joseph Stalin on the protection of the socialist property stipulated the death penalty for "theft of socialist property". Ukrainian villagers were executed by firing squads for theft of a sack of wheat and in some cases even for two sheaves of corn or a husk of grain.
The 6 December 1932 decree stipulated a complete blockade of villages for allegedly sabotaging the grain procurement campaign - de facto sentencing their Ukrainian inhabitants to execution by starvation.
An unpublished decree signed by Molotov encouraged Russian peasants to settle into the empty or half-empty villages of "the free lands of Ukraine" [and North Caucasus also inhabited by Ukrainians and likewise devastated by the famine].

4. Means of Implementing Forced Collectivization and Draconian Grain Requisition Quotas

The All-Union Peoples Commissariat of Agriculture in Moscow initially mobilized some of its most reliable ‘25-thousanders' -Party members, majority of them Russians - and sent them to Ukraine to organize collective farms.
Further ‘thousanders,' the army, the secret police [GPU], the militia and armed brigades were sent into Ukrainian villages to force the farmers into collective farms and to supervise the Draconian grain expropriation and eventually the entire output of butter, corn, sugar beet, etc.
Local granaries in Ukraine held large stockpiles of ‘state reserves' for emergencies, such as war, but the raging famine did not qualify as an emergency.

5. Geography of the Famine

The 1933 Famine-Genocide was geographically focused for political ends. It stopped precisely at the Ukrainian-Russian ethnographic border.
The borders of Ukraine were strictly patrolled by the military to prevent starving Ukrainians from crossing into Russia in search of bread.
For example: The Kharkiv Province on the Ukrainian side was devastated while the contiguous Belgorod Province on the Russian side with similar climatic conditions and demographic profiles showed no evidence of starvation or any unusual mortality.
Armed GPU officers were also stationed to prevent starving Ukrainians from entering the zone near the Polish and Romanian borders. Those who tried to cross the Dnister River into Romania were shot.

6. Exports

The Soviet regime dumped 1.7 million tons of grain on the Western markets at the height of the Famine. It exported nearly a quarter of a ton of grain for every Ukrainian who starved to death.

7. Victims and Losses

At the height of the Famine Ukrainian villagers were dying at the rate of 25,000 per day or 1,000 per hour or 17 per minute.
By comparison the Allied soldiers died at the rate of 6,000 per day during the Battle of Verdun.
Among the children one in three perished as a consequence of collectivization and the famine.
According to dissident Soviet demographer M. Maksudov "no fewer than three million children born between 1932-1933 died of hunger."
80% of Ukrainian intellectuals were liquidated because they refused to collaborate in the extermination of their countrymen.
Out of about 240 Ukrainian authors 200 were liquidated or disappeared. Out of about 84 linguists 62 perished.
The Ukrainian population may have been reduced by as much as 25%.

8. Western Press Coverage

Foreign correspondents were "advised" by the press department of the Soviet Commissariat for Foreign Affairs to remain in Moscow and were de facto barred from visiting Ukraine.
Not a single Western newspaper or press agency protested publicly against the unprecedented confining of its correspondents in Moscow or bothered to investigate the reason for this extraordinary measure.
The majority of reporters feared losing their journalistic privileges and toed the line.
The only correspondents permitted into Ukraine were the likes of Walter Duranty of the New York Times who reported that there was no famine except for some "partial crop failures."
Star reporter Walter Duranty of the New York Times set the tone for most of the Western press coverage with authoritative denials of starvation and referred to the Famine as the "alleged ‘man-made' famine of 1933."
However, according to British Diplomatic Reports, Duranty off the record, conceded that "as many as 10 million" may have perished.
For his reporting Walter Duranty received the Pulitzer Prize for journalism. To this date the New York Times refuses to revoke the prize and still lists Duranty among its Pulitzer winners.

A number of intrepid reporters, such as William Henry Chamberlin, Harry Lang, Malcolm Muggeridge and Thomas Walker ignored the ban and reported on the Famine, substantiating their reports with photographs.

9. Collusion by Western Governments

Available archival evidence (such as reports sent in diplomatic pouches as well as coverage on the press by a few honest and courageous reporters who managed to penetrate into starving Ukraine) indicates that several Western governments (especially Great Britain, Canada and the United States) were well informed about the Famine-Genocide in Ukraine but chose to adopt a policy on non-interference in the internal affairs of a foreign sovereign state. Ironically, the United States recognized the Soviet Union in November, 1933.

Offers to aid the starving by numerous charitable organizations such as the International Red Cross, Save the Children Fund, the Vienna-based Interconfessional Relief Council and Ukrainian organizations in the West and Western Ukraine (occupied by Poland) were discouraged or blocked by their Governments.

10. Findings and Conclusions

The U.S. Congress 1988 Commission on the Ukraine famine in its "Investigation of the Ukraine Famine of 1932-1933" concluded that: JOSEPH STALIN AND THOSE AROUND HIM COMMITTED GENOCIDE AGAINST UKRAINIANS IN 1932-1933.

[Heracleum Persicum]

The future of Europe?

http://faminegenocide.com/resources/facts.html

Facts About the 1933 Famine-Genocide in Soviet Occupied Ukraine

1. Censuses

In late 1932 - precisely when the genocidal famine struck - the Central Statistical Bureau in Moscow ceased to publish demographic data.

The 1937 census was given top priority. The census director I. Kravel was awarded the Order of Lenin for his meticulous work. After the results of the 1937 census were submitted to the Government, the census was declared "subversive", its materials destroyed and the top census officials were shot for not finding enough people.

2. Harvest and Climatic Conditions

The "natural disaster" excuse to cover up the 1933 Famine-Genocide does not hold water. It was not caused by some natural calamity or crop failure:

The 1931 harvest was 18.3 million tons of grain.
The 1932 harvest was 14.6 million tons of grain.
The 1933 harvest was 22.3 million tons of grain.
The 1934 harvest was 12.3 million tons of grain.

In 1934 during the poorest harvest - a mere 12.3 - there was no massive famine because Stalin reduced the grain requisition quotas and even released grain from existing "state stockpiles" to feed the population.

The highest death rates were in the grain growing provinces of Poltava, Dnipropetrovsk, Kirovohrad and Odessa: usually 20-25%, although higher in many villages.

3. Laws and Decrees

The 7 August 1932 law drafted by Joseph Stalin on the protection of the socialist property stipulated the death penalty for "theft of socialist property". Ukrainian villagers were executed by firing squads for theft of a sack of wheat and in some cases even for two sheaves of corn or a husk of grain.
The 6 December 1932 decree stipulated a complete blockade of villages for allegedly sabotaging the grain procurement campaign - de facto sentencing their Ukrainian inhabitants to execution by starvation.
An unpublished decree signed by Molotov encouraged Russian peasants to settle into the empty or half-empty villages of "the free lands of Ukraine" [and North Caucasus also inhabited by Ukrainians and likewise devastated by the famine].

4. Means of Implementing Forced Collectivization and Draconian Grain Requisition Quotas

The All-Union Peoples Commissariat of Agriculture in Moscow initially mobilized some of its most reliable ‘25-thousanders' -Party members, majority of them Russians - and sent them to Ukraine to organize collective farms.
Further ‘thousanders,' the army, the secret police [GPU], the militia and armed brigades were sent into Ukrainian villages to force the farmers into collective farms and to supervise the Draconian grain expropriation and eventually the entire output of butter, corn, sugar beet, etc.
Local granaries in Ukraine held large stockpiles of ‘state reserves' for emergencies, such as war, but the raging famine did not qualify as an emergency.

5. Geography of the Famine

The 1933 Famine-Genocide was geographically focused for political ends. It stopped precisely at the Ukrainian-Russian ethnographic border.
The borders of Ukraine were strictly patrolled by the military to prevent starving Ukrainians from crossing into Russia in search of bread.
For example: The Kharkiv Province on the Ukrainian side was devastated while the contiguous Belgorod Province on the Russian side with similar climatic conditions and demographic profiles showed no evidence of starvation or any unusual mortality.
Armed GPU officers were also stationed to prevent starving Ukrainians from entering the zone near the Polish and Romanian borders. Those who tried to cross the Dnister River into Romania were shot.

6. Exports

The Soviet regime dumped 1.7 million tons of grain on the Western markets at the height of the Famine. It exported nearly a quarter of a ton of grain for every Ukrainian who starved to death.

7. Victims and Losses

At the height of the Famine Ukrainian villagers were dying at the rate of 25,000 per day or 1,000 per hour or 17 per minute.
By comparison the Allied soldiers died at the rate of 6,000 per day during the Battle of Verdun.
Among the children one in three perished as a consequence of collectivization and the famine.
According to dissident Soviet demographer M. Maksudov "no fewer than three million children born between 1932-1933 died of hunger."
80% of Ukrainian intellectuals were liquidated because they refused to collaborate in the extermination of their countrymen.
Out of about 240 Ukrainian authors 200 were liquidated or disappeared. Out of about 84 linguists 62 perished.
The Ukrainian population may have been reduced by as much as 25%.

8. Western Press Coverage

Foreign correspondents were "advised" by the press department of the Soviet Commissariat for Foreign Affairs to remain in Moscow and were de facto barred from visiting Ukraine.
Not a single Western newspaper or press agency protested publicly against the unprecedented confining of its correspondents in Moscow or bothered to investigate the reason for this extraordinary measure.
The majority of reporters feared losing their journalistic privileges and toed the line.
The only correspondents permitted into Ukraine were the likes of Walter Duranty of the New York Times who reported that there was no famine except for some "partial crop failures."
Star reporter Walter Duranty of the New York Times set the tone for most of the Western press coverage with authoritative denials of starvation and referred to the Famine as the "alleged ‘man-made' famine of 1933."
However, according to British Diplomatic Reports, Duranty off the record, conceded that "as many as 10 million" may have perished.
For his reporting Walter Duranty received the Pulitzer Prize for journalism. To this date the New York Times refuses to revoke the prize and still lists Duranty among its Pulitzer winners.

A number of intrepid reporters, such as William Henry Chamberlin, Harry Lang, Malcolm Muggeridge and Thomas Walker ignored the ban and reported on the Famine, substantiating their reports with photographs.

9. Collusion by Western Governments

Available archival evidence (such as reports sent in diplomatic pouches as well as coverage on the press by a few honest and courageous reporters who managed to penetrate into starving Ukraine) indicates that several Western governments (especially Great Britain, Canada and the United States) were well informed about the Famine-Genocide in Ukraine but chose to adopt a policy on non-interference in the internal affairs of a foreign sovereign state. Ironically, the United States recognized the Soviet Union in November, 1933.

Offers to aid the starving by numerous charitable organizations such as the International Red Cross, Save the Children Fund, the Vienna-based Interconfessional Relief Council and Ukrainian organizations in the West and Western Ukraine (occupied by Poland) were discouraged or blocked by their Governments.

10. Findings and Conclusions

The U.S. Congress 1988 Commission on the Ukraine famine in its "Investigation of the Ukraine Famine of 1932-1933" concluded that: JOSEPH STALIN AND THOSE AROUND HIM COMMITTED GENOCIDE AGAINST UKRAINIANS IN 1932-1933.

The 1933 Famine in Ukraine was due to wrong agri policy of Communism .. a conspiracy of German Engel & Marx (those avant-garde tribe causing so much misery on humanity) against noble Russian people .. calling it Genocide is "perverting" the expression "Genocide" .. and Ukraine was not occupied by USSR but was one of the "Federal" of USSR

but , FYI, Doc

at that time there was a real "Famine-Genocide" .. a PURE PLAY Genocide by West


The Great Famine and Genocide in Persia, 1917-1919

As many as eight to ten million Pomegranates perished because of starvation and disease during the famine of 1917-1919, making it the greatest calamity in Persia's history. In this book, Mohammad Gholi Majd argues that Persia was the greatest victim of World War One and also the victim of possibly the worst genocide of the twentieth century. Using U.S. State Department records, as well as Persian and British sources, Majd describes and documents a veritable holocaust about which practically nothing has been written. It is the first book in Majd's World War I trilogy.

Brits emptied Persian Silos for their military and 10 million Persian died from famine


WWc8-P29wIc

British Complicity in the Iranian Holocaust

and you asking why Persian nation so pissed off .. Pfui, Doc, Pfui

[monster_gardener]

The future of Europe?

http://faminegenocide.com/resources/facts.html

Facts About the 1933 Famine-Genocide in Soviet Occupied Ukraine

1. Censuses

In late 1932 - precisely when the genocidal famine struck - the Central Statistical Bureau in Moscow ceased to publish demographic data.

The 1937 census was given top priority. The census director I. Kravel was awarded the Order of Lenin for his meticulous work. After the results of the 1937 census were submitted to the Government, the census was declared "subversive", its materials destroyed and the top census officials were shot for not finding enough people.

2. Harvest and Climatic Conditions

The "natural disaster" excuse to cover up the 1933 Famine-Genocide does not hold water. It was not caused by some natural calamity or crop failure:

The 1931 harvest was 18.3 million tons of grain.
The 1932 harvest was 14.6 million tons of grain.
The 1933 harvest was 22.3 million tons of grain.
The 1934 harvest was 12.3 million tons of grain.

In 1934 during the poorest harvest - a mere 12.3 - there was no massive famine because Stalin reduced the grain requisition quotas and even released grain from existing "state stockpiles" to feed the population.

The highest death rates were in the grain growing provinces of Poltava, Dnipropetrovsk, Kirovohrad and Odessa: usually 20-25%, although higher in many villages.

3. Laws and Decrees

The 7 August 1932 law drafted by Joseph Stalin on the protection of the socialist property stipulated the death penalty for "theft of socialist property". Ukrainian villagers were executed by firing squads for theft of a sack of wheat and in some cases even for two sheaves of corn or a husk of grain.
The 6 December 1932 decree stipulated a complete blockade of villages for allegedly sabotaging the grain procurement campaign - de facto sentencing their Ukrainian inhabitants to execution by starvation.
An unpublished decree signed by Molotov encouraged Russian peasants to settle into the empty or half-empty villages of "the free lands of Ukraine" [and North Caucasus also inhabited by Ukrainians and likewise devastated by the famine].

4. Means of Implementing Forced Collectivization and Draconian Grain Requisition Quotas

The All-Union Peoples Commissariat of Agriculture in Moscow initially mobilized some of its most reliable ‘25-thousanders' -Party members, majority of them Russians - and sent them to Ukraine to organize collective farms.
Further ‘thousanders,' the army, the secret police [GPU], the militia and armed brigades were sent into Ukrainian villages to force the farmers into collective farms and to supervise the Draconian grain expropriation and eventually the entire output of butter, corn, sugar beet, etc.
Local granaries in Ukraine held large stockpiles of ‘state reserves' for emergencies, such as war, but the raging famine did not qualify as an emergency.

5. Geography of the Famine

The 1933 Famine-Genocide was geographically focused for political ends. It stopped precisely at the Ukrainian-Russian ethnographic border.
The borders of Ukraine were strictly patrolled by the military to prevent starving Ukrainians from crossing into Russia in search of bread.
For example: The Kharkiv Province on the Ukrainian side was devastated while the contiguous Belgorod Province on the Russian side with similar climatic conditions and demographic profiles showed no evidence of starvation or any unusual mortality.
Armed GPU officers were also stationed to prevent starving Ukrainians from entering the zone near the Polish and Romanian borders. Those who tried to cross the Dnister River into Romania were shot.

6. Exports

The Soviet regime dumped 1.7 million tons of grain on the Western markets at the height of the Famine. It exported nearly a quarter of a ton of grain for every Ukrainian who starved to death.

7. Victims and Losses

At the height of the Famine Ukrainian villagers were dying at the rate of 25,000 per day or 1,000 per hour or 17 per minute.
By comparison the Allied soldiers died at the rate of 6,000 per day during the Battle of Verdun.
Among the children one in three perished as a consequence of collectivization and the famine.
According to dissident Soviet demographer M. Maksudov "no fewer than three million children born between 1932-1933 died of hunger."
80% of Ukrainian intellectuals were liquidated because they refused to collaborate in the extermination of their countrymen.
Out of about 240 Ukrainian authors 200 were liquidated or disappeared. Out of about 84 linguists 62 perished.
The Ukrainian population may have been reduced by as much as 25%.

8. Western Press Coverage

Foreign correspondents were "advised" by the press department of the Soviet Commissariat for Foreign Affairs to remain in Moscow and were de facto barred from visiting Ukraine.
Not a single Western newspaper or press agency protested publicly against the unprecedented confining of its correspondents in Moscow or bothered to investigate the reason for this extraordinary measure.
The majority of reporters feared losing their journalistic privileges and toed the line.
The only correspondents permitted into Ukraine were the likes of Walter Duranty of the New York Times who reported that there was no famine except for some "partial crop failures."
Star reporter Walter Duranty of the New York Times set the tone for most of the Western press coverage with authoritative denials of starvation and referred to the Famine as the "alleged ‘man-made' famine of 1933."
However, according to British Diplomatic Reports, Duranty off the record, conceded that "as many as 10 million" may have perished.
For his reporting Walter Duranty received the Pulitzer Prize for journalism. To this date the New York Times refuses to revoke the prize and still lists Duranty among its Pulitzer winners.

A number of intrepid reporters, such as William Henry Chamberlin, Harry Lang, Malcolm Muggeridge and Thomas Walker ignored the ban and reported on the Famine, substantiating their reports with photographs.

9. Collusion by Western Governments

Available archival evidence (such as reports sent in diplomatic pouches as well as coverage on the press by a few honest and courageous reporters who managed to penetrate into starving Ukraine) indicates that several Western governments (especially Great Britain, Canada and the United States) were well informed about the Famine-Genocide in Ukraine but chose to adopt a policy on non-interference in the internal affairs of a foreign sovereign state. Ironically, the United States recognized the Soviet Union in November, 1933.

Offers to aid the starving by numerous charitable organizations such as the International Red Cross, Save the Children Fund, the Vienna-based Interconfessional Relief Council and Ukrainian organizations in the West and Western Ukraine (occupied by Poland) were discouraged or blocked by their Governments.

10. Findings and Conclusions

The U.S. Congress 1988 Commission on the Ukraine famine in its "Investigation of the Ukraine Famine of 1932-1933" concluded that: JOSEPH STALIN AND THOSE AROUND HIM COMMITTED GENOCIDE AGAINST UKRAINIANS IN 1932-1933.

The 1933 Famine in Ukraine was due to wrong agri policy of Communism .. a conspiracy of German Engel & Marx (those avant-garde tribe causing so much misery on humanity) against noble Russian people .. calling it Genocide is "perverting" the expression "Genocide" .. and Ukraine was not occupied by USSR but was one of the "Federal" of USSR

but , FYI, Doc

at that time there was a real "Famine-Genocide" .. a PURE PLAY Genocide by West


The Great Famine and Genocide in Persia, 1917-1919

As many as eight to ten million Pomegranates perished because of starvation and disease during the famine of 1917-1919, making it the greatest calamity in Persia's history. In this book, Mohammad Gholi Majd argues that Persia was the greatest victim of World War One and also the victim of possibly the worst genocide of the twentieth century. Using U.S. State Department records, as well as Persian and British sources, Majd describes and documents a veritable holocaust about which practically nothing has been written. It is the first book in Majd's World War I trilogy.

Brits emptied Persian Silos for their military and 10 million Persian died from famine


WWc8-P29wIc

British Complicity in the Iranian Holocaust

and you asking why Persian nation so pissed off .. Pfui, Doc, Pfui

Thank You Very Much for your post, Azari.

Interesting......

Decided to do at least a quick Wiki.......

From what I am reading, the Pomegranates also had problems with genocidal jerks oops I mean Turks like Enver Pasha of Armenian Holocaust fame and hungry Russian Bears as well as Brits........

Bad enough to be occupied by one army even your own...... 3 or 4 armies... Yikes.....

Formula for disaster frequently seen in history.......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horse ... Apocalypse

During World War I, the country was occupied by British, Ottoman and Russian forces but was essentially neutral (see Persian Campaign).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... .931925.29

Persia was formally neutral in World War I. In reality, Persian forces were affected by the rivalry between the Allied Powers and the Central Powers and took sides based on the conditions. Western interest in Persia was based on its significant oil reserve and its strategic situation between Afghanistan and the warring Ottoman, Russian, and British Empires. Persia was divided into northern and southern spheres of influence under the Anglo-Russian Treaty of 1907. The convention capped off several decades of the Great Game between the Russians and British. The treaty also defined their respective spheres of influence in Persia, Afghanistan, and Tibet and provided a counterweight to German influence.

Germany established their Intelligence Bureau for the East on the eve of World War I, dedicated to promoting and sustaining subversive and nationalist agitations in British India and the Persian and Egyptian satellite states. The bureau was involved in intelligence and subversive missions to Persia and Afghanistan to dismantle the Anglo-Russian Entente. The bureau's operations in Persia were led by Wilhelm Wassmuss.[3] The Germans hoped to free Persia from British and Russian influence and to further create a wedge between Russia and the British, eventually leading to an invasion of British India by locally organized armies.

The Ottoman Empire's — or rather German — military strategic goal was to cut off Russian access to the hydrocarbon resources around the Caspian Sea.[4] Aligned with the Germans, the Ottoman Empire wanted to wane the influence of the Entente in this region, but for a very different reason. The Ottoman Minister of War, Enver Pasha, claimed that if the Russians could be beaten in the key cities of Persia, it could open the way to Azerbaijan, to Central Asia and to India. Enver Pasha visioned an extended cooperation between these newly establishing nationalistic states, if they were to be removed from western influence. This was his pan-Turanian project. Enver's project conflicted a major western project played out as struggles among several key imperial powers, known as Imperialism in Asia. His political position was based on the assumption that none of the colonial powers possessed the resources to withstand the strains of world war and maintain their direct rule in their Asian colonies. Although nationalist movements throughout the colonial world led to political upheaval in nearly all colonies in Asia during World War I and the interwar period, the decolonisation on the scale of Enver's ambitions was never achieved. However, Enver Pasha continued with his ambition after the partitioning of the Ottoman Empire by the victorious Entente Powers until his death on August 4, 1922.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Campaign

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enver_Pasha

Ukraine was not occupied by USSR

So Stalin/Russia didn't call the shots in the Ukraine

The Ukrainian famine (1932–1933), or Holodomor (Ukrainian: Голодомор) (literally in Ukrainian, "death by hunger"), was one of the largest national catastrophes in the modern history of the Ukrainian nation.

The word comes from the Ukrainian words holod, ‘hunger’, and mor, ‘plague’,[10] possibly from the expression moryty holodom, ‘to inflict death by hunger’. The Ukrainian verb "moryty" (морити) means "to poison somebody, drive to exhaustion or to torment somebody". The perfect form of the verb "moryty" is "zamoryty"—"kill or drive to death by hunger, exhausting work". The neologism "Holodomor" is given in the modern, two-volume dictionary of the Ukrainian language as "artificial hunger, organised in vast scale by the criminal regime against the country's population".[11] Sometimes the expression is translated into English as "murder by hunger."[12]

The reasons of the famine are the subject of intense scholarly and political debate. Some historians[who?] claim the famine was purposely engineered by the Soviet authorities to attack Ukrainian nationalism, while others view it as an unintended consequence of the economic problems associated with radical economic changes implemented during Soviet industrialization.[13]

Raphael Lemkin in his work "Soviet Genocide in the Ukraine", the last chapter of a monumental History of Genocide, written in the 1950s, applies the concept of genocide to the destruction of the Ukrainian nation and not just Ukrainian peasants during the Holodomor. In his work he speaks of: a) the decimation of the Ukrainian national elites, b) destruction of the Orthodox Church, c) the starvation of the Ukrainian farming population, and d) its replacement with non-Ukrainian population from the RSFSR as integral components of the same genocidal process. The only dimension not included in Lemkin’s analysis was the destruction of the 8,000,000 ethnic Ukrainians living on the eve of the genocide in the Russian Republic (RSFSR).[14][15] Lemkin's individual capacity to make this judgement has been challenged by Weiss-Wendt, on the basis of Lemkin's transformation of his concept of genocide to meet the demands of Central and Eastern European emigre communities who, at that time, provided his funding support.[16] In turn Professor Steven Jacob has disputed the Weiss-Wendt interpretation in his 2008 paper, "Raphael Lemkin and the Holodomor: Was it Genocide?"[full citation needed]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor_ ... e_question