America losing patience with European appeasement

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Heracleum Persicum
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America losing patience with European appeasement

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

.

Why should Washington defend a continent
that will not defend itself


.

Europeans, it has been said, cherish freedom but do not want to sacrifice anything for it. Only about half a dozen of Nato’s 28 members spend 2 per cent of output on defence, the alliance’s guideline level. When Vladimir Putin’s Russia undermined the strategic state of Ukraine, they stood and watched.

..

Whatever they may claim, each member follows its own national interest without asking what is best for Europe. Decades into the project, there is still no chill-up-your-spine loyalty to Europe. There is simply no larger purpose and nothing to fight for, other than providing for the good life under welfare state conditions.

..

Because of their anaemic sense of national purpose, European elites have in several countries ceded measurable ground to the far right or the far left, resulting in a lumpen and populist form of nationalism . Elites are often stranded in the middle, seeking ways to appease both Mr Putin and their own, homegrown extremists. Lumpen nationalism, defeatism and a latent anti-Semitism all flow together.

For 70 years Europe has relied on the US to guarantee its security, so it can spend less on defence and more on the good life

Europe’s elites are post-historical. Living in history means living in a world of constant threat where there is no nightwatchman to keep the peace among nations, so nations must keep the peace themselves by maintaining a balance of power. But for 70 years Europe has relied on the US to do exactly that: guarantee its security, so that Europe can spend relatively little on defence and relatively much on providing for the good life. Seventy years is much longer than the distance between the end of the Napoleonic Wars and the outbreak of the Franco-Prussian war; or between the end of that conflict and the outbreak of the first world war.

This American security umbrella will not stay up for ever. Barack Obama’s alleged lack of resolve in dealing with Mr Putin may say less about the US president’s own foreign policy than about a gradual shift in US opinion. Why should America defend a continent that will not defend itself ?


much more @ link

.

Does America want Europe become more dovish ? ? Putin ? ?

Alternative would be settle with Putin

.
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YMix
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Re: America losing patience with European appeasement

Post by YMix »

Ah, an article by Robert Kaplan. :lol:
Decades into the project, there is still no chill-up-your-spine loyalty to Europe.
Excellent.
Lumpen nationalism, defeatism and a latent anti-Semitism all flow together.
Well, Kaplan can be trusted to find a link between anti-Semitism and a refusal to go along with USA's every war. Can't say I'm surprised.
Why should America defend a continent that will not defend itself ?
If you're any kind of international relations expert, then you already know why. Stop asking dumb questions.
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Endovelico
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Re: America losing patience with European appeasement

Post by Endovelico »

Many of us have made the stupid mistake of believing there is such a thing as "Europe". In fact there are three Europes:

1. Southern/Mediterranean Europe
2. Northern Europe
3. Eastern Europe

With the exception of England, northern Europe is an inward looking group of countries, exclusively interested in their own wellbeing, dogmatic, arrogant. England only really cares for the anglosphere but at least it is aware of a world beyond its borders. But it definitely is not European...

Southern Europe is only partially European, as it is historically attached to the Eastern and Southern shores of the Mediterranean. But it has in itself the seeds of a multinational vision which may lead to the reconstruction of a non-imperial Rome, where Europe, North Africa and the Levant may meet and learn to cooperate. If ever there is a political union growing out of Europe, it will be a Southern European venture.

Eastern Europe is harder to define. Romania, Bulgaria and the rest of the Balkans may drift towards a more Southern European vision, and the other countries will either join the Northern European countries or drift towards a closer union with Russia.

The sooner we realize this, the better it will be. By all means let's keep the great European free trade zone, but let's put an end to the EU fantasy. The Southern European countries should split first and create their own monetary and political union, as a first step towards a broader Mediterranean association. And let Northern Europe continue following the US and keeping the American defensive umbrella, if it makes them happy.

A united Europe was a nice idea, if it could have been built, but without a true European identity, it was but a dream. Two thousand years ago Rome had the muscle to achieve it, and it gave it up, because Northern Europe was just too alien. It still is...
Simple Minded

Re: America losing patience with European appeasement

Post by Simple Minded »

Endovelico wrote:Many of us have made the stupid mistake of believing there is such a thing as "Europe". In fact there are three Europes:

1. Southern/Mediterranean Europe
2. Northern Europe
3. Eastern Europe

With the exception of England, northern Europe is an inward looking group of countries, exclusively interested in their own wellbeing, dogmatic, arrogant. England only really cares for the anglosphere but at least it is aware of a world beyond its borders. But it definitely is not European...

Southern Europe is only partially European, as it is historically attached to the Eastern and Southern shores of the Mediterranean. But it has in itself the seeds of a multinational vision which may lead to the reconstruction of a non-imperial Rome, where Europe, North Africa and the Levant may meet and learn to cooperate. If ever there is a political union growing out of Europe, it will be a Southern European venture.

Eastern Europe is harder to define. Romania, Bulgaria and the rest of the Balkans may drift towards a more Southern European vision, and the other countries will either join the Northern European countries or drift towards a closer union with Russia.

The sooner we realize this, the better it will be. By all means let's keep the great European free trade zone, but let's put an end to the EU fantasy. The Southern European countries should split first and create their own monetary and political union, as a first step towards a broader Mediterranean association. And let Northern Europe continue following the US and keeping the American defensive umbrella, if it makes them happy.

A united Europe was a nice idea, if it could have been built, but without a true European identity, it was but a dream. Two thousand years ago Rome had the muscle to achieve it, and it gave it up, because Northern Europe was just too alien. It still is...
Europe sounds a lot like America. Too complex to manage, too many competing interests to succeed.

Herding cats is a waste of resources.
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Alexis
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America already lost patience with French appeasement once

Post by Alexis »

America already lost patience with French appeasement once.

That was in 2003, when France reminded America that starting wars on fabricated pretexts and controlling countries may be a bad idea.

A few years later... well let's say that the situation changed.
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Doc
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Re: America already lost patience with French appeasement on

Post by Doc »

Alexis wrote:
America already lost patience with French appeasement once.

That was in 2003, when France reminded America that starting wars on fabricated pretexts and controlling countries may be a bad idea.

A few years later... well let's say that the situation changed.
Who was it in France that reminded American of that again?

Oh yeah
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/pers ... andal.html
The sordid truth about the oil-for-food scandal

By Con Coughlin

12:01AM BST 10 Oct 2004

So now we know the truth. Forget the row about Saddam's non-existent weapons stockpiles. That, after all, should never have been the justification for war in the first place. The proper casus belli for regime change in Baghdad was Saddam's non-compliance with 17 United Nations resolutions over a period of more than 12 years.


The real scandal contained in the long-awaited report of the Iraq Survey Group (ISG) that was published last week concerns the fecklessness of the United Nations, not to mention the treacherous conduct of some of its security council members, in its dealings with Saddam's regime between the end of the 1991 Gulf war and last year's Operation Iraqi Freedom.


In the diplomatic build-up to last year's war to remove Saddam Hussein from power, the two most vociferous opponents of military action were Russia and France. Even though Presidents Putin and Chirac reluctantly signed up to UN Security Council resolution 1441 in November 2002 - which threatened Saddam with "serious consequences" if he did not fully comply - they were at the forefront of the international campaign to block military action.


At the time it was felt that their main motivation was to protect their lucrative trade ties with Baghdad. In late 2002, Saddam still owed the Russians some $10 billion, mainly for illegal arms deals. France came next in the trade rankings.


Even so, Moscow and Paris tried to claim that they were opposing the war as a matter of principle. That was certainly the impression Mr Chirac sought to give when he announced that he would veto any second UN resolution that authorised military action. Mr Putin also opposed the invasion of Iraq and, just as hostilities were about to commence, even dispatched Yevgeny Primakov, his trusty former KGB colleague, to Baghdad on a last-ditch mission to persuade Saddam to comply and avoid war.


Thanks to the efforts of the ISG team, we now know that there was another, even less palatable, explanation for their duplicity. Far from seeking to protect their lucrative trade ties, the real explanation for the opposition of France and Russia to the war was that both countries' political establishments were deeply implicated in a lucrative scam to divert the profits of the UN's oil-for-food programme into their own private coffers.

From the moment the oil-for-food programme was introduced in 1996, Saddam concentrated all his energies on attempting to subvert it. The complex oil-for-food programme was introduced so that the profits from UN-supervised Iraqi oil sales would pay for essential healthcare supplies. The programme was conceived, it should be remembered, to counter the mounting effectiveness of the propaganda campaign of hard-Left activists such as George Galloway, the former Labour MP, who argued that the wide-ranging UN sanctions introduced following the Gulf war were responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent Iraqi children.

But as the ISG report clearly demonstrates, Saddam skilfully worked the system so that the profits were diverted to fund his regime rather than feed his people. An important element of this fraud was that a significant percentage of the funds was diverted to set up a voucher system that could be used to bribe a wide network of international politicians who could be counted upon to do Saddam's bidding.

Between them, France and Russia received 45 per cent of the vouchers, with China coming third. In late 2002 and early 2003, France, Russia and China led the anti-war movement at the UN. In France, the vouchers were given to a number of politicians with close links to Mr Chirac, while in Russia they were paid directly to Mr Putin's private office, providing him with his own ready-made slush fund.

Saddam's clever manipulation of the voucher system was a brilliant success: it not only caused a deep split within the security council, it helped him to make irrelevant the much-vaunted policy of containment that was supposed to prevent him from re-emerging as a dominant force the the Middle East. It also enabled him to fund illicit imports of weapons and the technology needed to resume production of weapons of mass destruction, which was his declared aim once the sanctions had been lifted.

By November 2001 - just two months after the 9/11 attacks - Saddam was so confident of breaking the UN's sanctions stranglehold that Baghdad hosted a trade fair that attracted hundreds of foreign companies in the expectation that they would soon be able to establish lucrative trade links with Saddam's regime. As Charles Duelfer, the author of the ISG report commented, by 2001 Saddam's "long struggle to outlast the containment policy seemed tantalisingly close".

The 9/11 attacks ended his hopes of survival as the West, or rather Washington and London, finally found the will to force the Iraqi leader to comply with the ceasefire obligations that he committed himself to at the end of the first Gulf war.

While the ISG report provides embarrassing reading for all those who actively participated in Saddam's scam, the real victim is the UN itself, whose claim to the moral high ground when confronting rogue regimes and dictators now lies in tatters.

Indeed, the failure of the UN to confront the error of its ways - Kofi Annan, the secretary-general, still refuses to make public the findings of his oil-for-food inquiry - poses a serious problem for those countries that remain committed to prosecuting the war on terror.

The sanctions regime against Saddam may have been a failure, but the threat of sanctions nevertheless remains an important first step in trying to persuade rogue states to reform. If Iran, for example, continues to defy the International Atomic Energy Agency over its nuclear programme, the logical response would be for the UN to impose sanctions against Teheran. But after the UN's Iraq debacle, it is highly unlikely that anyone - least of all Iran - could take such a threat seriously.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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