Retracted.Typhoon wrote:The reality is that life is too short to spend time debunking every conspiracy theory, so the rule of thumb isNonc Hilaire wrote:Again, ad hominem fallacy. You are not dealing with the data.Typhoon wrote:Peer reviewed does not in any way mean that the claims of the article are correct.Nonc Hilaire wrote:Ad hominem fallacy.
The actual journal the study was published in is a professional, peer reviewed journal.
Also, the journal publisher MDPI is considered what is called an open access "predatory publisher" in the academic world:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDPI
In other words, they will publish anything for a fee.
This issue has become a significant problem in academia.
"Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof."
However, some people have bothered to dissect the bogus paper in question:
https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-j-mar ... dia.t6456/
https://www.metabunk.org/claim-chemtrai ... ash.t5691/
There are several simple points with regards to so-called chemtrail geoengineering:
1/ It presumes an understanding of climate and weather far more advanced that what is currently known.
2/ To what end? What exactly is the purpose of undertaking such a massive and expensive project?
What's the point? Why bother?
3/ How can such a massive nefarious project be kept secret? Especially if the goal is to undermine the health of the US citizenry.
There are countless fascinating questions in physics and chemistry, including the highly dynamic non-linear climate, on which one can spend one's time.
Fixation on so-called chemtrails, which are nothing more than clouds and aircraft contrails, to me indicates a lack of knowledge and understanding of such questions and a real and depressing poverty of imagination by the proponents.
Conspiracy Theories, Crackpots, and other Looney Tunes
Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes
Anecdotally, my skepticism also arises from being a sailor.
As a sailor one learns to "read the sky", still a useful skill in this age of satellite weather reports as one never knows when one may find oneself navigating without access to electronics. Combined with a barometer, it is sufficient.
In the US Midwest, I spent a lot of time sailing on one of the Great Lakes, Lake Michigan,
and I never saw anything other than the various types of natural clouds
http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/education/ ... ds_max.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cloud_types
and what are clearly jet contrails
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrail
The same applies to being on land. However, on water one usually has a clear line of sight to the horizon.
As a sailor one learns to "read the sky", still a useful skill in this age of satellite weather reports as one never knows when one may find oneself navigating without access to electronics. Combined with a barometer, it is sufficient.
In the US Midwest, I spent a lot of time sailing on one of the Great Lakes, Lake Michigan,
and I never saw anything other than the various types of natural clouds
http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/education/ ... ds_max.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cloud_types
and what are clearly jet contrails
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrail
The same applies to being on land. However, on water one usually has a clear line of sight to the horizon.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
- Nonc Hilaire
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Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes
Contrails do not form at 4k ft. Per your source, 37k ft is about right. The air must be cold enough to freeze water vapor.
Contrails vanish rapidly and completely. 3x the length of the airplane is about average. They are not clouds. They do not persist longer than skywriting and spread to cover the sky.
Clouds do not come out of airplanes. They do not form geometrical crosshatching.
What kind of cloud is this, Captain Typhoon?
Contrails vanish rapidly and completely. 3x the length of the airplane is about average. They are not clouds. They do not persist longer than skywriting and spread to cover the sky.
Clouds do not come out of airplanes. They do not form geometrical crosshatching.
What kind of cloud is this, Captain Typhoon?
“Christ has no body now but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks with compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks among His people to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses His creation.”
Teresa of Ávila
Teresa of Ávila
Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes
But what about fog? It's pretty low altitude and persistent. Chemfog?
Usually conspiracies and secret messages come from the above or beyonder. Maybe some arise from the below wanting to remind us of something?
Usually conspiracies and secret messages come from the above or beyonder. Maybe some arise from the below wanting to remind us of something?
Deep down I'm very superficial
- Nonc Hilaire
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Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes
No chemfog. You can see it sprayed out of airplanes not on normal flightpaths a couple thosand feet up and it slowly dissipates into a gauzy haze. Fog is a function of dewpoint and temperature, and never comes out of an airplane. Sometimes you see the plane make a slow 180° turn and retrace its path. Not normal pilot behavior.Parodite wrote:But what about fog? It's pretty low altitude and persistent. Chemfog?
Usually conspiracies and secret messages come from the above or beyonder. Maybe some arise from the below wanting to remind us of something?
“Christ has no body now but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks with compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks among His people to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses His creation.”
Teresa of Ávila
Teresa of Ávila
Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes
I was just kinda kidding. Haven't put my mind much on this issue yet.Nonc Hilaire wrote:No chemfog. You can see it sprayed out of airplanes not on normal flightpaths a couple thosand feet up and it slowly dissipates into a gauzy haze. Fog is a function of dewpoint and temperature, and never comes out of an airplane. Sometimes you see the plane make a slow 180° turn and retrace its path. Not normal pilot behavior.Parodite wrote:But what about fog? It's pretty low altitude and persistent. Chemfog?
Usually conspiracies and secret messages come from the above or beyonder. Maybe some arise from the below wanting to remind us of something?
Deep down I'm very superficial
Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes
Photoshoperous.Nonc Hilaire wrote:Contrails do not form at 4k ft. Per your source, 37k ft is about right. The air must be cold enough to freeze water vapor.
Contrails vanish rapidly and completely. 3x the length of the airplane is about average. They are not clouds. They do not persist longer than skywriting and spread to cover the sky.
Clouds do not come out of airplanes. They do not form geometrical crosshatching.
What kind of cloud is this, Captain Typhoon?
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes
Following up on my impression above, a bit of google research informs on how to promote photoshopped so-called chemtrails:
http://www.metabunk.org/photoshopped-ch ... org.t6658/
http://www.metabunk.org/photoshopped-ch ... org.t6658/
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
- Nonc Hilaire
- Posts: 6233
- Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:28 am
Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes
Chemtrails are less prevalent lately, but the next time I see them I'll post my own image.Typhoon wrote:Following up on my impression above, a bit of google research informs on how to promote photoshopped so-called chemtrails:
http://www.metabunk.org/photoshopped-ch ... org.t6658/
“Christ has no body now but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks with compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks among His people to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses His creation.”
Teresa of Ávila
Teresa of Ávila
- NapLajoieonSteroids
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Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes
I genuinely miss the ol'internet where you could just gambol and wend your way through all sorts of self constructed websites with the most bizarre and elaborate conspiracy theories unfiltered.
All the social networking of web 2.0 has really homogenized conspiracy thinkers/conspiracy thinking.
Anyway, I think I posted a while back about looking for a website of a guy who went to great lengths to prove all of physics fraudulent.
Well, I think I found him, and has he been busy!
I think it's him, he used to have one well organized site focusing on math and sticking it to physics; this new version is schizo-writing across several websites, free (and some not-so-free) ebooks, no math apparently, and oh btw- he disproves science as a whole! The whole edifice has crumbled, we can all go home in our labcoats and roll around in our own filth and hubris. I dunno, the guy was a bit more easier to follow years back (or maybe I was crazier years back?)
I really think this is the guy, one Peet Schutte of South Africa who says (about physics) :
"I DISCOVERED A MISTAKE IN SCIENCE.
Mass having weight is there, but mass pulling anything closer is a mediaeval superstitious witches tale, a left over of astrology and magic properties promoted by alchemist. Mass can’t pull anything but can only pull the cover over the eyes of those trying to be brilliant but lack the ability to think. In physics it is better not to think and just believe because then those teaching physics do not have to think but only have to believe Newton is correct while never thinking about Newton’s correctness. I am not rejecting the factor of mass, used as a factor in calculating formulas in physics. That by any principle applies but it applies as weight. However I do reject the idea that mass is perceived to have a unexplainable and improvable magical pulling power that is used to establish a force thought to be gravity that pulls all things closer.
Therefore, I reject the notion that the way planets drive around the sun is by the force of gravity formed to the value of their mass and the mass of the Sun, which is then presumed to be driven on conducting of some magical intervening force, where that force is powered by mass. I also reject the idea that objects fall equal in the way the objects fall while yet being contracted by the force to the value of mass.
That notion that mass has magical pulling powers to contract or attract by evoking gravity is all superstitious old wives tales."
from questionablescience.net
All the social networking of web 2.0 has really homogenized conspiracy thinkers/conspiracy thinking.
Anyway, I think I posted a while back about looking for a website of a guy who went to great lengths to prove all of physics fraudulent.
Well, I think I found him, and has he been busy!
I think it's him, he used to have one well organized site focusing on math and sticking it to physics; this new version is schizo-writing across several websites, free (and some not-so-free) ebooks, no math apparently, and oh btw- he disproves science as a whole! The whole edifice has crumbled, we can all go home in our labcoats and roll around in our own filth and hubris. I dunno, the guy was a bit more easier to follow years back (or maybe I was crazier years back?)
I really think this is the guy, one Peet Schutte of South Africa who says (about physics) :
"I DISCOVERED A MISTAKE IN SCIENCE.
Mass having weight is there, but mass pulling anything closer is a mediaeval superstitious witches tale, a left over of astrology and magic properties promoted by alchemist. Mass can’t pull anything but can only pull the cover over the eyes of those trying to be brilliant but lack the ability to think. In physics it is better not to think and just believe because then those teaching physics do not have to think but only have to believe Newton is correct while never thinking about Newton’s correctness. I am not rejecting the factor of mass, used as a factor in calculating formulas in physics. That by any principle applies but it applies as weight. However I do reject the idea that mass is perceived to have a unexplainable and improvable magical pulling power that is used to establish a force thought to be gravity that pulls all things closer.
Therefore, I reject the notion that the way planets drive around the sun is by the force of gravity formed to the value of their mass and the mass of the Sun, which is then presumed to be driven on conducting of some magical intervening force, where that force is powered by mass. I also reject the idea that objects fall equal in the way the objects fall while yet being contracted by the force to the value of mass.
That notion that mass has magical pulling powers to contract or attract by evoking gravity is all superstitious old wives tales."
from questionablescience.net
Last edited by NapLajoieonSteroids on Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes
A bit sad.
There are so many open questions in math and physics worthy of energetic investigation.
There are so many open questions in math and physics worthy of energetic investigation.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
- NapLajoieonSteroids
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- Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:04 pm
Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes
Well you would think that, you're a representative of Big Physics!
I don't think it particularly sad his mind focuses where it does instead of on other pursuits.
I don't think it particularly sad his mind focuses where it does instead of on other pursuits.
Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes
Agreed. I miss the good ole days when conspiracy theorists were rugged individualists.NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:I genuinely miss the ol'internet where you could just gambol and wend your way through all sorts of self constructed websites with the most bizarre and elaborate conspiracy theories unfiltered.
All the social networking of web 2.0 has really homogenized conspiracy thinkers/conspiracy thinking.
It is virtually (pun intended) impossible today to be so much of a wack job that no one will agree with you.
Everybody is so needy in terms of confirmation bias nowadays, that in order to be a rugged individualist, it's almost like you need your own private internet...
Gotta go, before Big Brother tracks this post.....
Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes
Agreed. Typhoon is just a shill for rationality. Sad.NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:Well you would think that, you're a representative of Big Physics!
Maybe if his brain was less massive.... he could escape the gravitational pull of rationality?
Luckily, for the rest of us, there is always our feelings and sympathy on the internet.....
- NapLajoieonSteroids
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Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes
Rationality? There's nothing rational about being brainwashed by physicists or physicians or phys. ed teachers. Everyone is suspect now.Simple Minded wrote:Agreed. Typhoon is just a shill for rationality. Sad.NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:Well you would think that, you're a representative of Big Physics!
Maybe if his brain was less massive.... he could escape the gravitational pull of rationality?
Luckily, for the rest of us, there is always our feelings and sympathy on the internet.....
You've been seeing rugged individuals anywhere and everywhere huh? Rugged individuals on the brain, eh?Simple Minded wrote:Agreed. I miss the good ole days when conspiracy theorists were raving geniuses.NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:I genuinely miss the ol'internet where you could just gambol and wend your way through all sorts of self constructed websites with the most bizarre and elaborate conspiracy theories unfiltered.
All the social networking of web 2.0 has really homogenized conspiracy thinkers/conspiracy thinking.
It is virtually (pun intended) impossible today to be so much of a singular talent that no one will agree with you.
Everybody is so nerdy in terms of confirmation bias nowadays, that in order to be a raving genius, it's almost like you need your own private internet...
Gotta go, before Big Rugged Individualist tracks this post.....
Don't worry about it- I fixed your above post.
Last edited by NapLajoieonSteroids on Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes
good point. how exactly does that make you feel.....?NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:Rationality? There's nothing rational about being brainwashed by physicists or physicians or phys. ed teachers. Everyone is suspect now.Simple Minded wrote:Agreed. Typhoon is just a shill for rationality. Sad.NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:Well you would think that, you're a representative of Big Physics!
Maybe if his brain was less massive.... he could escape the gravitational pull of rationality?
Luckily, for the rest of us, there is always our feelings and sympathy on the internet.....
- NapLajoieonSteroids
- Posts: 8471
- Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:04 pm
Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes
Like there is a good book/money-making opportunity, the "....that THEY don't want you to know about" series:Simple Minded wrote:good point. how exactly does that make you feel.....?NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:Rationality? There's nothing rational about being brainwashed by physicists or physicians or phys. ed teachers. Everyone is suspect now.Simple Minded wrote:Agreed. Typhoon is just a shill for rationality. Sad.NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:Well you would think that, you're a representative of Big Physics!
Maybe if his brain was less massive.... he could escape the gravitational pull of rationality?
Luckily, for the rest of us, there is always our feelings and sympathy on the internet.....
"The Physics that THEY don't want you to know about."
"The Algebra that THEY don't want you to know about."
"The Business Management THEY don't want you to know about."
This series would write itself.
Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes
it's good to know that while all Big Brothers are control freaks, they're not all mean and nasty.NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:Rationality? There's nothing rational about being brainwashed by physicists or physicians or phys. ed teachers. Everyone is suspect now.Simple Minded wrote:Agreed. Typhoon is just a shill for rationality. Sad.NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:Well you would think that, you're a representative of Big Physics!
Maybe if his brain was less massive.... he could escape the gravitational pull of rationality?
Luckily, for the rest of us, there is always our feelings and sympathy on the internet.....
You've been seeing rugged individuals anywhere and everywhere huh? Rugged individuals on the brain, eh?Simple Minded wrote:Agreed. I miss the good ole days when conspiracy theorists were raving geniuses.NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:I genuinely miss the ol'internet where you could just gambol and wend your way through all sorts of self constructed websites with the most bizarre and elaborate conspiracy theories unfiltered.
All the social networking of web 2.0 has really homogenized conspiracy thinkers/conspiracy thinking.
It is virtually (pun intended) impossible today to be so much of a singular talent that no one will agree with you.
Everybody is so nerdy in terms of confirmation bias nowadays, that in order to be a raving genius, it's almost like you need your own private internet...
Gotta go, before Big Rugged Individualist tracks this post.....
Don't worry about it- I fixed your above post.
Some are looking out for us little guys (Rugged Snowflakes).
thanks!
Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes
Brilliant. It would dwarf the "_____ for idiots" book series in terms of cash flow.NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:
Like there is a good book/money-making opportunity, the "....that THEY don't want you to know about" series:
"The Physics that THEY don't want you to know about."
"The Algebra that THEY don't want you to know about."
"The Business Management THEY don't want you to know about."
This series would write itself.
- YMix
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- Location: Department of Congruity - Report any outliers here
Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes
Somebody is taking away our donut holes!
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes
its those damn global warming types, reducing the precious air and replacing it with empty calories.
ultracrepidarian
Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes
yer confusing cause and effect. more empty calories, people get fatter, and exhale more CO2, and flatulate more methane.noddy wrote:its those damn global warming types, reducing the precious air and replacing it with empty calories.
There are many computer models that prove it.
Science. It's not for everyone. apparently.
Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes
you claim to know the ways of science!
if someone is consuming fatty sugars they arent breathing, t you cant eat and breathe at the same time.
thusly, more fatty sugars, less c02, its obvious.
if someone is consuming fatty sugars they arent breathing, t you cant eat and breathe at the same time.
thusly, more fatty sugars, less c02, its obvious.
ultracrepidarian
Re: Conspiracy Theories and other Looney Tunes
garbage in, garbage out.
same for the human digestive system as computer BIOS......
on a practical side, and anyone can play AGW scientist and test this hypothecary;
no one wants to sit next to a fat person unless it is cold and windy outside.
no one wants to sit next to a fat person on a crowded bus or in a crowded plane when it is hot.
same for the human digestive system as computer BIOS......
on a practical side, and anyone can play AGW scientist and test this hypothecary;
no one wants to sit next to a fat person unless it is cold and windy outside.
no one wants to sit next to a fat person on a crowded bus or in a crowded plane when it is hot.