Ukraine

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

also requires the *something* to believe europe would actually want to invade russia and be responsible for it.

I cant damage my brain enough to beleive that one, its a level beyond stupid.

beat me to it here-- yeah, it's exactly that stupid.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

There is this line of thinking where Russian apologists want the liberation by the oligarchs but not the oligarchs themselves (or the outcome of the bleak rapaciousness of the 90s) and outside wreckers must be blamed for the soviets leaving no defense against the nomenklatura rising up and grabbing everything once they were strong enough.

Almost to a man, every oligarch which sold Russia piecemeal was of that class professionally or familiarly.

What was anyone else supposed to do about it?

Almost every Western institution was geared towards always having the Soviet Union around; to a point where there was real emotional attachment to that being the forever settlement. And as we've been shown time and time again, our own bureaucrats move from one "forever settlement" to another by belly flops and some sort of collective dissociative disorder-- I mean, we are talking about people who couldn't wait to load up all-time loser Mikhail Gorbechev with participation trophies under the assumption that if they give him enough trophies, the meltdown in Russia during that period would stop.

And the only answer comes back to, "Well the West shouldn't have sent in all sorts of scheming bankers and financial gurus and other people to act parasitically in the rape."

Fine, I get the sentiment but this is getting angry at the wind. No one cries tears when these same people do the exact same thing to everyone else at every chance they can. Some of it (but not all of it- I think it is important enough to qualify) is indeed beyond scummy. But it's business, business Russians (or anyone else) invited on themselves.

This war really brings into focus that the division really is economic and that there are people who are, at present, constitutionally incapable of absorbing or incorporating modern economic relations and really do wish for some reactionary turning back the clock where "land always equals power and money" or "big man/big land"; that economics isn't something on a spreadsheet but a complex ritual where merchant A has to charm you and then marry your fifth daughter and perform the sacred ritual at the right time when the moon waxes.

[noddy]

I get the middle east, and parts of Africa being hostile to NATO or not giving a lavender about the problems of westerners.

thats normal and natural, and in many cases deserved.

but throwing your lot in with Putin as a saviour against corrupt european empires, is the literal out off the frying pan and into the fire.

I also get Americans and isolationist europeans wanting nothing to do with any of it - also perfectly natural and sensible.

the only problem with that, is once its on "your" borders (NATO) you are either relevant or you are roadkill, so i think its a bad choice,

[noddy]

There is this line of thinking where Russian apologists want the liberation by the oligarchs but not the oligarchs themselves (or the outcome of the bleak rapaciousness of the 90s) and outside wreckers must be blamed for the soviets leaving no defense against the nomenklatura rising up and grabbing everything once they were strong enough.

Almost to a man, every oligarch which sold Russia piecemeal was of that class professionally or familiarly.

What was anyone else supposed to do about it?

Almost every Western institution was geared towards always having the Soviet Union around; to a point where there was real emotional attachment to that being the forever settlement. And as we've been shown time and time again, our own bureaucrats move from one "forever settlement" to another by belly flops and some sort of collective dissociative disorder-- I mean, we are talking about people who couldn't wait to load up all-time loser Mikhail Gorbechev with participation trophies under the assumption that if they give him enough trophies, the meltdown in Russia during that period would stop.

And the only answer comes back to, "Well the West shouldn't have sent in all sorts of scheming bankers and financial gurus and other people to act parasitically in the rape."

Fine, I get the sentiment but this is getting angry at the wind. No one cries tears when these same people do the exact same thing to everyone else at every chance they can. Some of it (but not all of it- I think it is important enough to qualify) is indeed beyond scummy. But it's business, business Russians (or anyone else) invited on themselves.

This war really brings into focus that the division really is economic and that there are people who are, at present, constitutionally incapable of absorbing or incorporating modern economic relations and really do wish for some reactionary turning back the clock where "land always equals power and money" or "big man/big land"; that economics isn't something on a spreadsheet but a complex ritual where merchant A has to charm you and then marry your fifth daughter and perform the sacred ritual at the right time when the moon waxes."

If russia let Ukraine join the other sucessful baltic integrations into Europe, become another Poland, then it would be deadly obvious how lavender being tied to Russia is.

Russia itself was becoming a comfy tied into Europe thing - selling gas, partying in London, on its way to being yet another European country.

He is dead right in a way, this is existential crisis for Russa as an independant empire, it was about to become a nothing burger petrol station in globalism, with an alcholol problem

now its still a nothingburger petrol station with an alchol problem, but its having one last hurrah of being an empire before it fades away in the night.

if it does succeeed, if europe does go all isolationist and scared of the bully - he wont even really get to enjoy the benefit.

the world will be china's and india's, not russias.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

I get the middle east, and parts of Africa being hostile to NATO or not giving a lavender about the problems of westerners.

thats normal and natural, and in many cases deserved.

but throwing your lot in with Putin as a saviour against corrupt european empires, is the literal out off the frying pan and into the fire.

I also get Americans and isolationist europeans wanting nothing to do with any of it - also perfectly natural and sensible.

the only problem with that, is once its on "your" borders (NATO) you are either relevant or you are roadkill, so i think its a bad choice,

Unfortunately agree.

[Heracleum Persicum]

As said, Bush and Gorbachov agreed NATO stays @ German boarder .. that is why Russians moved out of E.Germany

Idea was East Europe stays as buffer Zone between Russia and Europe .. securing Russian and European security

West did not keep the promise

If this alleged verbal agreement is true, they most certainly kept their promise and it's calumny to suggest otherwise. It would've been an agreement made with a legal entity which ceased to exist in 1991 and was no longer binding on anyone after its dissolution. And that dissolution was voted upon country to country-- as I recall, the Ukraine voted in all its provinces to break ties with Russia.

This buffer zone- populated with people and not chess pieces- have their own interests and motives and reasonings which did not include being some rump plaything of the Russians.

Most participants still alive, and they, on TV, confirmed the agreement, nobody disputes this ..

This was a gentlemen's agreement, no need for signature ..

But West thought WTF are these "subhuman Russians?, f*ck them .. Bonaparte and aDolf thought same and we saw where they ended ..

But ... All that minor stuff , this Ukraine war will be a "footnote" in history of "emergence of the new world order"

Main event that now changing the world for next 1000s of yrs is West now represents only itself, "free word" representing itself ..

Event of last 30 yrs, after USSR fell, showed that West has not what it takes to lead the world, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan and our beloved Persia .. Millions dead .. historical social, cultural and political fabric of nations wiped out, millions killed

[Parodite]

Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, Persia, Russia.... When countries are not able to keep up their own decent pants as failed states, somehow the USA has this irresistable urge to take out its can opener and look for the worms inside. Things then get messy when darkness is no longer available as a nematodes safe space; the nightly crawlers start running for their lives.

It could be that the driving force of the USA is not so much power and money, but the curiosity of a child who got some tools on its birthday to dig around in the garden, open some cans... just to discover. Darkness has to be explored and then destroyed for the American dream to live.

Ukraine is an extremely rich digging ground that needs investigation and discovery, with many cans begging to be opened!

In shadows deep, where moonlight fades,
A fear takes hold, as darkness cascades.
The night conceals what day reveals,
And in its depths, my heart it steals.

A child's unease, a whispered dread,
When bedtime stories fill my head.
Beneath the sheets, I'd tightly cling,
To shield my soul from what might bring.

The creaking floor, the rustling leaves,
Each sound in darkness deceives.
Imagination runs untamed,
In the black abyss where I am named.

Yet, in this fear, a mystery lies,
As stars appear in midnight skies.
The unknown holds its mystic spark,
A canvas vast, a world of dark.

For deep within the night's embrace,
A chance to find a hidden grace.
To face the fear, to let it be,
Is to unlock what sets us free.

In shadows, courage starts to grow,
As fear recedes, a new path we sow.
The night becomes a friend, not foe,
And in its secrets, wisdom flows.

So, fear the dark, but not in vain,
Embrace its lessons, break the chain.
For in the night, we find our way,
And greet the dawn of a brand-new day.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

Unlike the current situation in Ukraine, when the war in Yugoslavia started the American's did all they could to stop the country from breaking apart, including placing an arms embargo on the Croats, Slovenes and even the Bosnians. The Americans was so concerned about the stability of the former Soviet Union that they did not want to set a precedent by recognising the breakaway republics. Even the Baltics had a hard time gaining recognition from the U.S. The fact of the matter is that the Bush administration of the early 90's did all it could to support the continuity of the the former Soviet Union and turned a blind eye to much of the slaughter in the former Yugoslavia....

The entry of the Clinton administration initially didn't really change much. But it was the nightly reports of slaughter and murder, perpetrated mainly by the Serbs that turned public opinion in the U.S. and Europe against Serbian/Russian interests. By the time the issue of Kosovo had come around, the largely accurate public image of the Serbs had taken such a beating that Serbian claims to Kosovo fell on unsympathetic ears. American policy in Kosovo was designed to save lives and if the Serbians hadn't a policy of extermination I doubt that there would have been any intervention at all.

This of course bothered the Russians and their apologists who somehow felt that their right to dictate what happened in that theatre of operations trumped the human rights of the inhabitants of that region....

While the fine detail of U.S. foreign policy towards Russia is beyond this blog post the fact of the matter is that U.S. Russian relations were quite cordial, even to the extent that Russia was mooted as a potential NATO member until the Orange Revolution where the Russians were outmaneuvered by the Americans, failing to get their man installed. (Unlike in Belarus.)

It's clear now that the U.S. is hostile to the Kremlin but it wasn't always this way and while both sides are responsible for this deterioration in their relationship. The way the Kremlin and their apologists paint it, one would think that the Russians were victims of exploitation instead of contributory agents. Putin is a Russian Nationalist with an imperialistic vision and his desire to restore a modern version of the tsardom is what rubs many people the wrong way and in the playbook of Russian diplomacy, when Russia doesn't get what it wants it is a "victim."

from this blog post

[Heracleum Persicum]

Unlike the current situation in Ukraine, when the war in Yugoslavia started the American's did all they could to stop the country from breaking apart, including placing an arms embargo on the Croats, Slovenes and even the Bosnians. The Americans was so concerned about the stability of the former Soviet Union that they did not want to set a precedent by recognising the breakaway republics. Even the Baltics had a hard time gaining recognition from the U.S. The fact of the matter is that the Bush administration of the early 90's did all it could to support the continuity of the the former Soviet Union and turned a blind eye to much of the slaughter in the former Yugoslavia....

The entry of the Clinton administration initially didn't really change much. But it was the nightly reports of slaughter and murder, perpetrated mainly by the Serbs that turned public opinion in the U.S. and Europe against Serbian/Russian interests. By the time the issue of Kosovo had come around, the largely accurate public image of the Serbs had taken such a beating that Serbian claims to Kosovo fell on unsympathetic ears. American policy in Kosovo was designed to save lives and if the Serbians hadn't a policy of extermination I doubt that there would have been any intervention at all.

This of course bothered the Russians and their apologists who somehow felt that their right to dictate what happened in that theatre of operations trumped the human rights of the inhabitants of that region....

While the fine detail of U.S. foreign policy towards Russia is beyond this blog post the fact of the matter is that U.S. Russian relations were quite cordial, even to the extent that Russia was mooted as a potential NATO member until the Orange Revolution where the Russians were outmaneuvered by the Americans, failing to get their man installed. (Unlike in Belarus.)

It's clear now that the U.S. is hostile to the Kremlin but it wasn't always this way and while both sides are responsible for this deterioration in their relationship. The way the Kremlin and their apologists paint it, one would think that the Russians were victims of exploitation instead of contributory agents. Putin is a Russian Nationalist with an imperialistic vision and his desire to restore a modern version of the tsardom is what rubs many people the wrong way and in the playbook of Russian diplomacy, when Russia doesn't get what it wants it is a "victim."

from this blog post

I think quite accurate .. agree


Existence of USSR was good for West, economically and politically .. there no debate about that, Western leaders knew this.

Issue is what was the thinking after USSR fell .. what American plan was for post USSR

That is when the big mistake happened by our beloved US of A

[Heracleum Persicum]

.

https://asiatimes.com/2023/10/ukraine-w ... nd-russia/

The facts are straightforward. The first, now abundantly clear, is that Ukraine cannot win its war against Russia. It lacks the manpower and firepower to push the Russians out of Ukrainian territory.
..
Zelensky is frozen into an immovable position as his internal support and survival are tied to strident Ukrainian nationalists who oppose any concessions to Russia. They want to fight to the last man (and woman).
..
Ukraine under Zelensky won’t negotiate but NATO and Russia could yet do a deal on both the war and Europe’s future security architecture

Zelensky is "dead man walking" .. if he is wise, he would escape to Israel before "exit"
.

[Nonc Hilaire]

[Heracleum Persicum]

.

Ukraine forgotten .. previous post here was Oct 12th .. 18 days ago


In the meantime, Ukraine struggling


https://asiatimes.com/2023/10/ukraine-c ... the-rocks/

Ukraine’s situation has worsened since the failure of the much advertised Ukrainian “counter-offensive.” Focused mainly on the Zaphorize area, but also including renewed emphasis on trying to return to Bakhmut, the entire enterprise stalled. Ukraine suffered huge casualties and equipment losses with almost nothing to show for it. Even the fighting in Bradley square, aimed at breaching the Surovikin defenses, failed.

Ukraine has also suffered heavy losses in its air force. If unconfirmed reports coming from Russia are accurate, it would seem the Russians in October were able to destroy 20 Mig-29’s, eight Su-25’s, one Su-24, and two L-39’s. (The L-39 is a trainer and light attack aircraft produced by the Czech Republic’s Aero Vodochody.)

Sergey Shoigu, Russia’s defense minister, speaking on October 25th, said, “We have received systems that have shot down 24 aircraft over the past five days.” Shoigu did not say what the “systems” were or where they were operating.

It isn’t clear how many Mig-29’s remain in Ukraine’s inventory, but probably only a handful.

No new money coming as US congress speaker Mike Johnson said Israel needs the money which was meant for Ukraine.

Hmmmm

This only 2 hot spots .. imagine if one or two additional hot spots start flaring up
.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

Not forgotten. The war isn't powered by the hot air from the cheap seats.

[Nonc Hilaire]

Zekensky can’t face up to his abandonment and failure.

https://time.com/6329188/ukraine-volody ... interview/

[Parodite]

Zekensky can’t face up to his abandonment and failure.

https://time.com/6329188/ukraine-volody ... interview/

That he fails and will be abandoned is good news to you?

[Heracleum Persicum]

Zekensky can’t face up to his abandonment and failure.

https://time.com/6329188/ukraine-volody ... interview/

That he fails and will be abandoned is good news to you ?

Looking at the big picture , YES


There was no possibility that Zelensky wins, as Russia would escalate and use tactical battlefield nuke and later clash with NATO (probably nuclear) and God knows where this would be ending (maybe Baltic next).

Zelensky accepting defeat would not be good but much better compared to above.

Ukrainians are very close to Russians, once West packs and leaves, Ukraine will find it's own accommodation with Russians
.

[Nonc Hilaire]

Zekensky can’t face up to his abandonment and failure.

https://time.com/6329188/ukraine-volody ... interview/

That he fails and will be abandoned is good news to you?

This is reporting from a mainstream US news outlet. I think this is as close to an official announcement from NATO the world will get.

[noddy]

2 years later, and nothing has changed, the might of the Russian army is shirley impressive.

[Typhoon]

. . .

Ukrainians are very close to Russians, . . .

If abject ignorance of E European history were bliss, you would easily attain nirvana.

[Typhoon]

Critical Threats | Russian Offensive Campaign [Invasion] Assessment, November 3, 2023

[Heracleum Persicum]

. . .

Ukrainians are very close to Russians, . . .

If abject ignorance of E European history were bliss, you would easily attain nirvana.

As said before there must be some mechanism for punishing those who bullied those who were warning of disaster policies of warmongers, those who warned before Afghan stupidity, before Iraq stupidity and now against Ukraine stupidity

Now we witnessing the US, European Genocidal policies in Palestine unraveling. The Natanyahu Mafia encircled from all fronts, pretty much all the world is now anti Israel, even US and Europe now turning that way .. Israel saying "we don't car about world opinion"

If bombing hospitals and schools and refugee camps and killings would help, it should have done the job after 75 yrs doing so ..

Are Zionist now safer than 50 yrs ago ? Only fools think they are.

Now Israel's existence in real danger, have not been as bad last 75 yrs.
.
.

[Heracleum Persicum]

Critical Threats | Russian Offensive Campaign [Invasion] Assessment, November 3, 2023

During an "on going war", there no true "War Assessment" , they all biased and fake , Propaganda.

[Heracleum Persicum]

.

https://youtu.be/YqK6C0AVHGk?si=1egrT1n0CJ5xHEni&t=93


.. told you


Ukraine done .. now West asking Putin for a settlement


There was an article in Iranian media saying the Ukraine game is not about Ukraine , not even about Russia

It is about Germany

Americans and British (Brits, Lord Heseltine, said looks like Germans won, we lost WW2) ganged against Europe .. Anglos wanted to hit Germany in the knees

That is what really happened .. the real loser of all this is Germany and Europe .. nobody care about Ukraine, Ukraine same as Afghanistan for West.
.

[Heracleum Persicum]

.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqK6C0AVHGk&t=342s


Very well said

and

Non of those are punished, they even were promoted.

[noddy]

https://www.bild.de/politik/ausland/pol ... .bild.html

Germany is doubling military aid to Ukraine next year. Instead of four billion euros, there are now eight billion euros!

According to BILD information from the Ministry of Defense, the traffic light agreed on this this week. Next week, the Budget Committee will officially decide on the four billion plus.

For Kiev that means more weapons, more ammunition.