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Re: Multiculturalism
Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:29 pm
by Simple Minded
At its best, I think it means indifference, or that Fred is Fred, and Joe is Joe. If either want to change their self identity multiple times each day (father, son, brother, worker, liberal, conservative, religious, hobbyist, charitable, stingy), as individuals are wont to do. So be it.
Only when the group identity labels, group politics power games get played does it get nasty.
Re: Multiculturalism
Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:53 pm
by Simple Minded
Multiculturalism in practice:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
I often read opinions here that seem to think the US (or Europe, or the ME) is 2 people living on half an acre. Which is stereotyping. Typhoon posted one of the best articles on stereotyping I have read here:
http://quillette.com/2015/12/04/rebelli ... ereotypes/
Seems to me multiculturalism is the absence of stereotyping. Stereotyping is the absence of thinking? interaction/experience? open-mindedness?
Nation X is more or less multicultural than nation Y? Really? How and who to measure? Land area? Population? Lines of demarcation?
Stereotyping.
Re: Multiculturalism
Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:45 pm
by Yukon Cornelius
Wondering if a traditional muslim could sit on the board of Mozilla, or be Fire Chief of Atlanta.
Re: Multiculturalism
Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:30 pm
by Typhoon
Yukon Cornelius wrote:Wondering if a traditional muslim
What is a "traditional Muslim"?
Yukon Cornelius wrote:could sit on the board of Mozilla, or be Fire Chief of Atlanta.
I think that even in Saudi Arabia, it is possible to form a company. Presumably there are also fire stations.
Re: Multiculturalism
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:19 am
by Mr. Perfect
Typhoon wrote:Canada, from what I recall, has an official policy of "multiculturalism" whatever that means.
I thought it rather brilliant as by not forcing people to abandon their heritage, there is no backlash against repression.
The 2nd generation all want to be Canadian.
Other than that group of folks always wanting to secede.
Re: Multiculturalism
Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:50 am
by Typhoon
Mr. Perfect wrote:Typhoon wrote:Canada, from what I recall, has an official policy of "multiculturalism" whatever that means.
I thought it rather brilliant as by not forcing people to abandon their heritage, there is no backlash against repression.
The 2nd generation all want to be Canadian.
Other than that group of folks always wanting to secede.
You're referring to the secessionist party that got wiped off the map once a senior member opened his mouth suggesting another secession vote?
Re: Multiculturalism
Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:53 am
by Mr. Perfect
I'm referring to a minority that doesn't feel the way you do about their country.
Re: Multiculturalism
Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 3:18 am
by Typhoon
Mr. Perfect wrote:I'm referring to a minority that doesn't feel the way you do about their country.
A minority of the Canadians of French descent?
There is no pleasing everyone.
What of it.
1960's would-be revolutionary romantics that are dying out.
Trudeau is an old French name.
Re: Multiculturalism
Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:35 am
by Mr. Perfect
It's just entertaining when people set as a shining example of functioning multiculturalism the only "developed nation" that has an actual secession movement, based on the culture, repeatedly denied by an oppressive majority.
Re: Multiculturalism
Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:42 pm
by noddy
Typhoon wrote:Mr. Perfect wrote:I'm referring to a minority that doesn't feel the way you do about their country.
A minority of the Canadians of French descent?
There is no pleasing everyone.
What of it.
1960's would-be revolutionary romantics that are dying out.
Trudeau is an old French name.
it was extremely close, 51% to 49%
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secession ... _of_Canada
Re: Multiculturalism
Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:18 pm
by Typhoon
noddy wrote:Typhoon wrote:Mr. Perfect wrote:I'm referring to a minority that doesn't feel the way you do about their country.
A minority of the Canadians of French descent?
There is no pleasing everyone.
What of it.
1960's would-be revolutionary romantics that are dying out.
Trudeau is an old French name.
it was extremely close, 51% to 49%
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secession ... _of_Canada
Quite. However, that was then.
I was referring to the recent provincial election.
Pauline Marois loses seat, Parti Québécois loses power
Marois moved to buttress the PQ’s economic credentials with the recruitment of businessman Pierre Karl Péladeau, owner of the Quebecor empire, as the PQ’s candidate in Saint-Jérôme.
The strategy quickly went awry with Péladeau’s unguarded comments about his desire to build an independent Quebec for his children.
Rather than bringing attention to the PQ’s economic platform and strengths, Péladeau’s arrival instead brought the issue of sovereignty to the fore.
The resulting situation went counter to traditional PQ election strategy,
which usually works to limit talk of sovereignty in order to avoid scaring off potential supporters.
Marois added to her party’s woes by openly discussing her vision of what an independent Quebec would look like.
Talk of a PQ majority quickly evaporated as the Liberals and CAQ stoked fears that Marois would call a referendum on sovereignty if elected.
Marois later admitted that the focus on sovereignty was a regrettable development.
As I noted earlier, the old 1960's would-be romantic revolutionary generation is dying out.
The new generations of French-Canadians and
les autres have little, if any, interest in secession.
After a bit of reading it turns out the Quebecois old time secessionist's concept of "secession" was "sovereignty-association".
Apparently a euphemism for having one's cake and eating it too.
I.e., we will be independent, but we will allow you to continue to pay our bills, defend us, wash our dishes, do our laundry, take out our garbage, etc.
Re: Multiculturalism
Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:19 pm
by Typhoon
Mr. Perfect wrote:It's just entertaining when people set as a shining example of functioning multiculturalism the only "developed nation" that has an actual secession movement, based on the culture, repeatedly denied by an oppressive majority.
Not only low information, but not even wrong information.
Top marks for yet more consistency. Consistently not even wrong.
The French in Canada have language and cultural rights that the Cajuns [Acadians] in New Orleans could not even begin to dream of.
Note that Canada is officially a bilingual nation.
Hard to decide whether it is more amusing or depressing that I'm far better informed about Canada and Canadian topics than a 'Merkin.
Sayonara
Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:32 pm
by Yukon Cornelius
Typhoon wrote:Yukon Cornelius wrote:Wondering if a traditional muslim
What is a "traditional Muslim"?
Yukon Cornelius wrote:could sit on the board of Mozilla, or be Fire Chief of Atlanta.
I think that even in Saudi Arabia, it is possible to form a company. Presumably there are also fire stations.
Just answer the question for heaven's sake.
Here's some mainstream Islam for you:
Re: Multiculturalism
Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:06 pm
by YMix
Mr. Perfect wrote:It's just entertaining when people set as a shining example of functioning multiculturalism the only "developed nation" that has an actual secession movement, based on the culture, repeatedly denied by an oppressive majority.
Spain? Italy?
Re: Multiculturalism
Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:09 pm
by YMix
Yukon Cornelius wrote:Wondering if a traditional muslim could sit on the board of Mozilla, or be Fire Chief of Atlanta.
It depends on whether he likes money or not. When poured over religion, liquidity acts as a solvent.
I remember a Bucharest lawyer, a woman, telling me about her Orthodox Jewish clients from Israel. They brought everything with them, down to paper and pencils, so they wouldn't touch hers. Nevertheless, business was business.
Re: Sayonara
Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:23 pm
by Typhoon
Yukon Cornelius wrote:Typhoon wrote:Yukon Cornelius wrote:Wondering if a traditional muslim
What is a "traditional Muslim"?
Yukon Cornelius wrote:could sit on the board of Mozilla, or be Fire Chief of Atlanta.
I think that even in Saudi Arabia, it is possible to form a company. Presumably there are also fire stations.
Just answer the question for heaven's sake.
I have already have done so.
Yukon Cornelius wrote:
Here's some mainstream Islam for you:
There is a Japanese proverb: "When in the village, do as the village."
The law of the land trumps religious belief, be it death for apostasy, or preventing queers from marrying.
I'm not aware of any apostasy related murders in Japan. How about the USA?
Re: Multiculturalism
Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:25 pm
by Typhoon
YMix wrote:Yukon Cornelius wrote:Wondering if a traditional muslim could sit on the board of Mozilla, or be Fire Chief of Atlanta.
It depends on whether he likes money or not. When poured over religion, liquidity acts as a solvent.
I remember a Bucharest lawyer, a woman, telling me about her Orthodox Jewish clients from Israel. They brought everything with them, down to paper and pencils, so they wouldn't touch hers. Nevertheless, business was business.
It is an unfortunate accident of history that three of world's major religions originated in the ME.
Their perspective towards women is so messed up.
Re: Multiculturalism
Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:53 am
by Parodite
Indeed multiculturalism is a weazel word hiding the real issues.
Re: Multiculturalism
Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 1:25 am
by Mr. Perfect
I would love it if people would talk about the real issues, particularly those more predisposed to "multiculturalism".
Re: Multiculturalism
Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 1:28 am
by Mr. Perfect
Typhoon wrote:YMix wrote:Yukon Cornelius wrote:Wondering if a traditional muslim could sit on the board of Mozilla, or be Fire Chief of Atlanta.
It depends on whether he likes money or not. When poured over religion, liquidity acts as a solvent.
I remember a Bucharest lawyer, a woman, telling me about her Orthodox Jewish clients from Israel. They brought everything with them, down to paper and pencils, so they wouldn't touch hers. Nevertheless, business was business.
It is an unfortunate accident of history that three of world's major religions originated in the ME.
Their perspective towards women is so messed up.
Really.
Re: Multiculturalism
Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:06 am
by Simple Minded
I'm leaning towards multiculturism is when no one can agree on what the appropriate stereotype is.......
You think Fred is a plumber, he says no, I'm a Christian and you're a bigot!
Re: Multiculturalism
Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 4:26 am
by Typhoon
Mr. Perfect wrote:Typhoon wrote:YMix wrote:Yukon Cornelius wrote:Wondering if a traditional muslim could sit on the board of Mozilla, or be Fire Chief of Atlanta.
It depends on whether he likes money or not. When poured over religion, liquidity acts as a solvent.
I remember a Bucharest lawyer, a woman, telling me about her Orthodox Jewish clients from Israel. They brought everything with them, down to paper and pencils, so they wouldn't touch hers. Nevertheless, business was business.
It is an unfortunate accident of history that three of world's major religions originated in the ME.
Their perspective towards women is so messed up.
Really.
Your ignorance of foreign cultures is showing again.
And, yes, really.
Re: Multiculturalism
Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 5:03 am
by noddy
its an odd thing how most cultures seem to have a dream about 'the other culture' having passive, sex driven woman.
plenty of middle eastern types seem to think the same about white woman as westerners think about asian woman.
http://www.japantoday.com/category/life ... chelorhood
Re: Multiculturalism
Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 6:00 am
by Typhoon
noddy wrote:its an odd thing how most cultures seem to have a dream about 'the other culture' having passive, sex driven woman.
plenty of middle eastern types seem to think the same about white woman as westerners think about asian woman.
...
I pity the poor expat in Japan that confuses polite manners and calculated deference for passive subservience.
Re: Multiculturalism
Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 7:30 am
by Mr. Perfect
Abrahamites say the same thing. It's all what you are used to.