Attacks on US diplomats/embassies.

[Mr. Perfect]

To be fair, this radicalism did not just fester four years ago. It has been in the making for quite some time.

Don't mistake this as a defence of Mr. President.

Well Hans, this is of course much, much bigger than El Presidente, much bigger. We know that now.

As for his part, clearly his apology tour, withdrawal and "help the Muslim overthrow the bad guys" thing is a complete and total and epic and historic backfire.

But the bigger story here is it looks like terrorism is back. If I was a terrorist I would be licking my chops.

[Jnalum Persicum]

.

I expect more terrorism. Libya was a mistake. We should pull our embassies and troops from all Muslim countries.

.

What is happening, what America & West is doing .. is .. chose a bully, tyrant, back him, give him all arms and backing he needs to suppress his people, in return make arrangement to steal that countries resources (special business arrangements) .. and .. if and when that bully starts "free lancing", on excuse of democracy, start bombing and promoting another bully for the same again

To get rid of Saddam, Ghaddafi, Assad, Shah, Mubarak .. and Saudi wahhabi & Katari & Dubai & Bahrain & Kuwait & UAE & Brunai & & & .. no bombing needed , just cutting the flow of arms to them will enable the mass to overthrow them , and , the real leaders come from the masses .. like Iran

but America & West does not want the real leaders representing the mass, like Iran

In that sense, that space has not started the real revolution yet

Yes, Mr. Perfect, for America and west, in final analysis, it would be less costly if West packs and leaves all Muslim countries

if so

real leaders will come from masses and everything will work out fine, for west and east


.

[Jnalum Persicum]

.

CNN reports street thugs chanting "Obama, Obama, there are a millions more Osama's".

Thank goodness there is no War On Terror. What do we call it now ?

.

Real stupid to (supposedly) kill Ossama

“No Easy Day,” former Navy SEAL Mark Owen's book says Ossama was not even armed and was just opening his bedroom door .. why shoot him ?

He should have captured and taken to a court .. to see what he has to say

- was he really the real Ossama
- did he really do 9/11
- why he was doing all what was said he was doing
- what did he really want
- did his grievances make sense
- what was his vision for future

and and and

Yes .. killing him and berried at sea means .. "Obama, Obama, there are a millions more Osama's"

as said, really stupid

maybe there was never an Ossama
maybe Ossama continued 2B CIA operative (justifying more & more bombing)
maybe all just a cone

why not have Nuremberg style court, on TV, and see what Ossama & friends had to say

this way, people would have made their own judgment

reminds me of that Holocaust rubbish .. swallow the garbage or you f*cked

well

it not gonna work, and , it nor working

[Parodite]

I expect more terrorism. Libya was a mistake. We should pull our embassies and troops from all Muslim countries.

Yes, Mr. Perfect, for America and west, in final analysis, it would be less costly if West packs and leaves all Muslim countries.

A miracle!

Mr.P., Azari and Rhapsy agree. What's going on here?? The Magic Mahdi disguised as Jesus who now speaks in the name of Mohammed is due? That'd be great.

[monster_gardener]

.

I expect more terrorism. Libya was a mistake. We should pull our embassies and troops from all Muslim countries.

.

What is happening, what America & West is doing .. is .. chose a bully, tyrant, back him, give him all arms and backing he needs to suppress his people, in return make arrangement to steal that countries resources (special business arrangements) .. and .. if and when that bully starts "free lancing", on excuse of democracy, start bombing and promoting another bully for the same again

To get rid of Saddam, Ghaddafi, Assad, Shah, Mubarak .. and Saudi wahhabi & Katari & Dubai & Bahrain & Kuwait & UAE & Brunai & & & .. no bombing needed , just cutting the flow of arms to them will enable the mass to overthrow them , and , the real leaders come from the masses .. like Iran

but America & West does not want the real leaders representing the mass, like Iran

In that sense, that space has not started the real revolution yet

Yes, Mr. Perfect, for America and west, in final analysis, it would be less costly if West packs and leaves all Muslim countries

if so

real leaders will come from masses and everything will work out fine, for west and east


.

Thank you Very Much for your post, Azari...........

Yes, Mr. Perfect, for America and west, in final analysis, it would be less costly if West packs and leaves all Muslim countries

Maybe......... We might also have make sure all non Revisionist Muslims leave the West..........

Muslims are under orders to conquer the world for Allah by any means necessary....... WMDs* included

Or the West and the non Muslim Rest may have to leave this planet.......... Which is a good idea anyway....... Killer Space Rocks headed this way..............

History already shows that when Muslims have an equal or upper hand, they too act as oppressors and slavers........

Remembering the centuries long slaving operation that Muslims raiders conducted against Europe........ And India........ And Africa..........

Not that we Uz and the rest of the West cannot match the Muslims...............

everything will work out fine, for west and east

Doubt that extremely.......... Human beings are depraved sinful killer apes...... Not as bad as Lions......... But often working on it............

If we Westerners/Resterners are lucky, the Muslim will fight among themselves and not bother Uz much..........

Or maybe the Bears and Dragons will keep them under control...........

Dragons seem better than most at doing that so far...... Bears have a mixed record....... But to be fair, the last time we Uz foolishly foiled them.........


But maybe the Caliphate will be revived and a united Islam will take on the rest of the World....... Just like it did in the past.... Tours..... Vienna...... Lepanto...........

Time for at least some of Uz and Resterners to be off this world so that when The Madhi Meets Miss Masada.. not everyone is killed when Mr. Samson, the comedian, brings the house down...

If the Persian Peacocks can fly away too....... that is great........as long as we live in separate hollow worlds/orbitals........

We humans don't play well with each other...........


*Catapults in the old days...... Rocks and plague vicitims.............Remembering an Al Queda video testing poison gas on a dog, a being superior to them, more recently.........

[AzariLoveIran]

.


Look, monster_gardener

was touring Andalusia for a week

Cordoba was center of culture and civilization for 100s of year .. center of literature, science, humanity and and and .. Jews, Christians and Muslims lived together in harmony and peace for 100s of years , for 800+ years .. at that time, Europe in dark ages

Though I no religious, but, respectfully, must be fair .. Islam was detrimental for advancement of science and human science at a crucial time

why so ? ?

reason for that was

that

pre Islam Persia .. and Greece .. and Europe

all of them

were

in reality

elitism

"cast system"

when, a wealthy Persian land owner said to Cyrus he would give away all his wealth only if his son would be allowed to be educated, Cyrus replied, he from a lower cast and his son can not sit next to a noble's son

education was reserves for the elite, for the higher cast

Islam attraction was putting away all cast and all elitism .. saying .. everybody same

that brought the masses into education and science and everything exploded

and

from China to Andalusia .. everybody understood Arabic language

A Persian scientist could write an essay, an Andalusian could read and understand and comment on that scientific essay

same idea as now English is language of science

I think , monster_gardener , you and others, should study a bit history to understand what really happened

American politicians should go through an exam for history to understand what they dealing with .. it is really scarey to see people in leading positions that do not know anything of subject at hand .. scarey for America



.

[Enki]

We have the United States (embassies and similar properties are considered sovereign) under attack in Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Yemen, the Sudan and more I think, due to popular uprisings in alliance with terror orgs across a whole region.

Has this ever happened before? Any ideas? It seems clear that the hug a Muslim approach championed by the left for the last 9 years is total flop at this point, regimes now have a deep well to draw from now for anti-US actions and posturing. A deep, deep well.

I expect more terrorism. Libya was a mistake. We should pull our embassies and troops from all Muslim countries.

Is this significant or is it WTO Seattle/Fleabagger material that will be forgotten. It seems like this is a big deal to me.

The hug a Muslim approach has never actually been tried.

If by hugs you mean 'hellfire missiles fired from drones', yeah, I think it's pretty ineffective.

[Enki]

It was said that the region was already a tinderbox when the spark quite literally went off in Tunisia. I'm not surprised that any of this is happening but am dismayed at how poorly much of the world understands the tenets of Western civilization: democracy, freedom of speech, secularism, and rule of law.

These events also illustrates how poorly west understands rest of the world , and thinks that democracy will function the same way everywhere. This is the fallacy of Obama/Clinton doctrine , when they agreed to bomb libya.

It also illustrates how poorly the west understands its own history.

When America became a Democracy there was a war that lasted for eight years that included a great deal of terrorism, civil disobedience and many thousands of deaths.

[Enki]

You guys should read this.
Interesting.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/47803154/Towa ... mes-Davies

"Revolutions are most likely to occur when a prolonged period of objective economic and social development is followed by a short period of sharp reversal. People then subjectively fear that ground gained with great effort will be quite lost; their mood becomes revolutionary. The evidence from Dorr's Rebellion, the Russian Revolution, and the Egyptian Revolution supports this notion; tentatively, so do data on other civil disturbances. Various statistics—as on rural uprisings, industrial strikes, unemployment, and cost of living—may serve as crude indexes of popular mood. More useful, though less easy to obtain, are direct questions in cross-sectional interviews. The goal of predicting revolution is conceived but not yet born or matured."

davies-j-curve.jpg

China's revolution is going to be a fearsome thing to behold then.

[Mr. Perfect]

We have the United States (embassies and similar properties are considered sovereign) under attack in Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Yemen, the Sudan and more I think, due to popular uprisings in alliance with terror orgs across a whole region.

Has this ever happened before? Any ideas? It seems clear that the hug a Muslim approach championed by the left for the last 9 years is total flop at this point, regimes now have a deep well to draw from now for anti-US actions and posturing. A deep, deep well.

I expect more terrorism. Libya was a mistake. We should pull our embassies and troops from all Muslim countries.

Is this significant or is it WTO Seattle/Fleabagger material that will be forgotten. It seems like this is a big deal to me.

The hug a Muslim approach has never actually been tried.

If by hugs you mean 'hellfire missiles fired from drones', yeah, I think it's pretty ineffective.

Well you embraced it for years as the "10,000 ninjas" strategy or somesuch.

Do you actually ever stick to anything, or believe in anything?

If you think the hug a muslim approach strategy has not been tried you're going to really have a serious beef with Barack Obama, he couldn't disagree more forcefully.

[Mr. Perfect]

China's revolution is going to be a fearsome thing to behold then.

Well Tienanmen Square I think turned out to be more of an OJ Simpson TV event than anything substantive or lasting.

[Mr. Perfect]

More Arab Spring please.

[Uche Americanus]

Mr. P

The terrorist never left the stage. They were simply helped into government by the Western " do gooders" in the mistaken belief that it will lessen their zealotory. Today, all of North Africa and big chunks of central West Africa are engaged in a struggle to the death with the cancer that is Islamic terror. But the conflaters are no where to be seen even when they did not stop telling us thatnthe Muslim world was ready for freedom and democracy. Except the freedom they want is to be able to kill and maim the innocent in the name of their faith. I am awaiting the the arrival of British and French soldiers in Mali to help put out the brush fire they started but I wont hold out much hope of that happening. As was the case in Sierra Leone a few years ago, they want Nigeria to do the heavy lifting for them so that they will turn around and claim the credit.

[Endovelico]

It seems obvious that the present attacks on Americans throughout the Middle East and North Africa have very little to do with the anti-Islam movie. The sad truth is that the US and Americans are hated in the region, and only their withdrawal from the Middle East may put an end to that hatred. The only legitimate interest the US may have in the Middle East is to preserve access to oil. But that problem cannot be solved by a military presence in the region. If Americans want Middle Eastern oil they can have it by paying its current price, in competition with other buyers. As simple as that. Trying to guarantee an oil supply by waging war, by antagonizing some governments and befriending others, no matter how authoritarian they may be, will not work for much longer. If Americans believe in the working of markets, then let the market forces work, and pay their prices. Imperialism and brute force are no longer acceptable.

[Marcus]

It seems obvious that the present attacks on Americans throughout the Middle East and North Africa have very little to do with the anti-Islam movie. The sad truth is that the US and Americans are hated in the region, and only their withdrawal from the Middle East may put an end to that hatred. The only legitimate interest the US may have in the Middle East is to preserve access to oil. But that problem cannot be solved by a military presence in the region. If Americans want Middle Eastern oil they can have it by paying its current price, in competition with other buyers. As simple as that. Trying to guarantee an oil supply by waging war, by antagonizing some governments and befriending others, no matter how authoritarian they may be, will not work for much longer. If Americans believe in the working of markets, then let the market forces work, and pay their prices. Imperialism and brute force are no longer acceptable.

Bingo!

[noddy]

they are forcing the market with armed forces paid for by the biggest market in the world, how much more market and forces could you need!

brought to you by the double plus good post modern rethinkistan.

[Ibrahim]

It seems obvious that the present attacks on Americans throughout the Middle East and North Africa have very little to do with the anti-Islam movie. The sad truth is that the US and Americans are hated in the region, and only their withdrawal from the Middle East may put an end to that hatred. The only legitimate interest the US may have in the Middle East is to preserve access to oil. But that problem cannot be solved by a military presence in the region. If Americans want Middle Eastern oil they can have it by paying its current price, in competition with other buyers. As simple as that. Trying to guarantee an oil supply by waging war, by antagonizing some governments and befriending others, no matter how authoritarian they may be, will not work for much longer. If Americans believe in the working of markets, then let the market forces work, and pay their prices. Imperialism and brute force are no longer acceptable.

You're forgetting two things:

1. Building and operating oil drilling operations in the M.E. is a very profitable business that very wealthy oil magnates don't want to give up, and can buy congressmen to support their aims. Also, waging war in the M.E., and supply US troops for via the defense R&D and production industry, and privatized logistical support for forces in the field, and PMCs, are very profitable businesses, and the people who run them can buy congressmen to prolong this moneymaking involvement.

2. Israel and Saudi Arabia (or at least enough of the Saudi princelings) want America deeply involved in the US, and they can buy enough congressmen to keep the US there.



The strange neo-Victorianism of post-9/11 US foreign policy is similar to its historical colonial predecessors in that it will persist as long as it is profitable, and abruptly sputter out when it is no longer so.

[Mr. Perfect]

There ain't that much money in it Ibs.

[Mr. Perfect]

market and forces

That was pretty good.

[Ibrahim]

Yemen is clearly a case where complete US dis-involvement would be better for everyone (except Saleh).



http://www.thenation.com/node/169971#

Yemen Inflamed
by Adam Baron

SANAA, YEMEN—As a mob of angry demonstrators descended on the heavily guarded United States Embassy in Sanaa, many observers seemed stunned into disbelief. The breach of the Embassy itself was unthinkable. And the sheer anger displayed by the demonstrators, even according to many Yemenis, was chilling. But even if a video regarded as blasphemous prompted Thursday’s events, the factors at play involve much more than a movie.

Ostensibly, what sparked the siege on the US Embassy were statements by a number of religious leaders—amplified by social media and word of mouth—who condemned the film and called for protests. But while many in politically contentious Sanaa seemed eager to tie the protests to a prominent figure or faction, the truth was far less simple. Most of those taking part in the demonstrations lacked any obvious signs of religiosity: rather than bearded men or tribesmen in traditional garb, the bulk of those at the embassy were young men in western clothes, united, if anything, by their rage.

...

But while tensions within Yemen’s divided military may have played a contributing role in allowing for the embassy breach itself, the origins of the anti-American rage displayed by demonstrators lie elsewhere.

Thursday’s events were not solely a response to the controversial film, which few Yemenis—including those taking part in the demonstrations—have seen. Rather, the film struck a nerve in Yemen because of long-simmering resentment of American policy.

Specifically, Yemenis resent what they characterize as the United States’ persistent meddling in Yemen’s internal affairs. Even as government forces cracked down on peaceful anti-government demonstrations last year, the United States appeared reluctant to drop support for Saleh, who American officials viewed as a key ally in the battle against Yemen’s local Al Qaeda franchise. Faced with the choice between siding with the Yemeni people and siding with the corrupt government hundreds of thousands took to the streets to topple, activists complain, the US chose the latter. Since Saleh ceded power, resentment over the United States’ past alliance with the former president has lingered.

[Mr. Perfect]

Uche, good to see you again. You and I were very prescient and the new neocons (Democrats) were indeed incredibly foolish over the last number of years. I'm so tired of it. We're right back to square 1, 11 years ago. We've made no progress at all.

[Ibrahim]

The terrorist never left the stage. They were simply helped into government by the Western " do gooders" in the mistaken belief that it will lessen their zealotory.

Aside from being false this is also illogical. If AQ-stype terrorists actually had the numbers or support to hold power, they would cease to be terrorists and institute some kind of hell-state cross between Khomeini-era Iran and North Korea. The fact that they have to scurry around and conduct terrorist attacks against soft targets proves that they are marginal.

Today, all of North Africa and big chunks of central West Africa are engaged in a struggle to the death with the cancer that is Islamic terror.

The pre-9/11 method of combating terrorism - treating it as a policing matter - is much more accurate and intelligent. There will always be violent individuals or groups, there are in every country. One cannot eliminate random violence any more than you can eradicate any other type of crime. We don't "end" theft, but we try our best. Same principle. Your characterization of some kind of death struggle with a cancer doesn't conform to the facts on the ground, nor has it worked in recent history.

But the conflaters are no where to be seen even when they did not stop telling us thatnthe Muslim world was ready for freedom and democracy.

Here you express a troubling idea with troubling implications. Aside from the deliberate falsehood that Muslim populations do not exercise democratic rights like any other group, what you seem to be implying is that Muslims need to be oppressed by violent regimes. An idea truly immoral, not to mention based on no facts whatsoever.

Except the freedom they want is to be able to kill and maim the innocent in the name of their faith.

A malicious lie, contradicted by the obvious facts that a) the overwhelming majority of Muslims do no such thing and b) it is in fact Western, "Christian" armies that have been killing Muslim civilians on a daily bases for years now. Yet the latter doesn't bother you, demonstrating what your judgments are really worth.

I am awaiting the the arrival of British and French soldiers in Mali to help put out the brush fire they started but I wont hold out much hope of that happening. As was the case in Sierra Leone a few years ago, they want Nigeria to do the heavy lifting for them so that they will turn around and claim the credit.

Nobody expects Nigeria to do any heavy lifting, ever.

[Mr. Perfect]

Ibs, do you ever get the feeling that you're fighting against the ocean?

[Uche Americanus]

Ibrahim is arguing against reality and in the process being an apologist for evil. Nigeria is being called upon to help restore order to Mali and to wrestle Northern Mali from the grip of Islamist terror. I think that Nigeria plays a more positive role in it's corner of the world than Turkey does in it's own part.

I can understand imperfect democracy as nations new to it work and struggle to build institutions that will support it's growth, development and permanence. But it is not obvious that the Muslim dominated countries are even willing to attempt this. Their tendency, as best as one can discern it, is one of violence and the imposition of an atavistic way of life based on their religion. Disagreements, so essential to the practice of democracy, are often met with blood curdling rage and bombs.

I'm sorry to be this clear and to not mince words but I take solace that there are still some quarters left where one can still call a spade a spade. Every day we are told by the likes of Ibrahim that terror is a practice only supported by a small, tiny minority in the Muslim world and every day we await the moderate Muslim majority to step up to the plate and reclaim their religion and their societies from this tiny number of terrorists but alas, our wait appears hopeless as we continuously witness the deafening silence of the Muslim majority. Instead, they offer us excuses and alibis and only after the fact.

[Mr. Perfect]

dup