Turkish artillery has fired on targets in Syria after shells from across the border killed five Turkish nationals.
A woman and three children were among the dead when the shells, apparently fired by Syrian government forces, hit Turkey's border town of Akcakale.
Ankara's response marks the first time it has fired into Syria during the 18-month-long unrest there.
Turkey also asked the UN Security Council to take "necessary action" to stop Syrian "aggression".
The request was made by Turkish envoy to the UN, Ertugrul Apakan, in a letter to the current president of the 15-member Council, Guatemalan ambassador Gert Rosenthal.
Meanwhile, Nato envoys held an urgent meeting in Brussels at the request of Turkey, who is a member of the military alliance.
The bloc issued a statement saying it "continues to stand by Turkey and demands the immediate cessation of such aggressive acts against an ally, and urges the Syrian regime to put an end to flagrant violations of international law".
The Nato ambassadors also expressed appreciation for Turkey's restraint in its response, the BBC's defence correspondent Caroline Wyatt reports.
At the same time, the government in Ankara is expected to ask the parliament on Thursday to authorise cross-border military operations in Syria, Turkish media report.
Turko-Syrian War
Turko-Syrian War
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19822253
Men often oppose a thing merely because they have had no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike.
-Alexander Hamilton
-Alexander Hamilton
Re: Turko-Syrian War
It's so self-destructive for the Assad regime that one almost wonders if it was a false-flag operation by the rebels. In any case if Assad draws any outside power into the conflict then his regime is finished. The Turkish military would squash whatever loyalist forces he has left, especially once his airforce and artillery goes from attacking civilian neighborhoods to being smoking wrecks.
Re: Turko-Syrian War
Yup, especially since if Turkey takes any kind of pounding at all they get NATO support.Ibrahim wrote:It's so self-destructive for the Assad regime that one almost wonders if it was a false-flag operation by the rebels. In any case if Assad draws any outside power into the conflict then his regime is finished. The Turkish military would squash whatever loyalist forces he has left, especially once his airforce and artillery goes from attacking civilian neighborhoods to being smoking wrecks.
Men often oppose a thing merely because they have had no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike.
-Alexander Hamilton
-Alexander Hamilton
Re: Turko-Syrian War
Yes, that was my first reaction. It´s a perfect excuse for a foreign intervention in Syria.Ibrahim wrote:It's so self-destructive for the Assad regime that one almost wonders if it was a false-flag operation by the rebels. In any case if Assad draws any outside power into the conflict then his regime is finished. The Turkish military would squash whatever loyalist forces he has left, especially once his airforce and artillery goes from attacking civilian neighborhoods to being smoking wrecks.
Re: Turko-Syrian War
I could see them tapping NATO air assets (AWACS, CnC communications for coordinating air strikes) out of the gate. No actual combat forces from other countries though.Enki wrote:Yup, especially since if Turkey takes any kind of pounding at all they get NATO support.Ibrahim wrote:It's so self-destructive for the Assad regime that one almost wonders if it was a false-flag operation by the rebels. In any case if Assad draws any outside power into the conflict then his regime is finished. The Turkish military would squash whatever loyalist forces he has left, especially once his airforce and artillery goes from attacking civilian neighborhoods to being smoking wrecks.
-
- Posts: 16973
- Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:35 am
Re: Turko-Syrian War
Don Imus-
"If Syria and Turkey were to disappear tomorrow would it affect any of our lives?'
"If Syria and Turkey were to disappear tomorrow would it affect any of our lives?'
Censorship isn't necessary
Re: Turko-Syrian War
Seems 2me, west pulling a Saddam Hussein on TurkeyIbrahim wrote:.I could see them tapping NATO air assets (AWACS, CnC communications for coordinating air strikes) out of the gate. No actual combat forces from other countries though.Enki wrote:.
Yup, especially since if Turkey takes any kind of pounding at all they get NATO support.Ibrahim wrote:.
It's so self-destructive for the Assad regime that one almost wonders if it was a false-flag operation by the rebels. In any case if Assad draws any outside power into the conflict then his regime is finished. The Turkish military would squash whatever loyalist forces he has left, especially once his airforce and artillery goes from attacking civilian neighborhoods to being smoking wrecks.
.
Iraq warned Turkey day ago
Russians warned Nato re Syria day ago
Iran has warned Turkey a few times
Nato/Turkey getting involved in Syria, meaning getting involved with Russia and Iran and China
Probably Turkey will be loser at the end .. could lose Kurdish part of present Turkey
Nato will think twice getting involved as would mean facing Russia
Americans thinking to integrate Afghanistan into "missile defense system" .. Russia, Pakistan, Iran, China will not let it happen
well
Ibrahim, this a trap .. remember Saddam .. had he not attacked Iran, he would still be around .. and .. remember, there were same people (Saudi and Kuwaiti and Qatari and Brits and Americans) that enticed Saddam to Attack Iran promising money and and and
AND ? he f*cked and lost Mesopotamia to Iran
Be careful
.
- monster_gardener
- Posts: 5334
- Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:36 am
- Location: Trolla. Land of upside down trees and tomatos........
Danger and Opportunity.........
Thank you Very Much for your post, Azari.Jnalum Persicum wrote:Seems 2me, west pulling a Saddam Hussein on TurkeyIbrahim wrote:.I could see them tapping NATO air assets (AWACS, CnC communications for coordinating air strikes) out of the gate. No actual combat forces from other countries though.Enki wrote:.
Yup, especially since if Turkey takes any kind of pounding at all they get NATO support.Ibrahim wrote:.
It's so self-destructive for the Assad regime that one almost wonders if it was a false-flag operation by the rebels. In any case if Assad draws any outside power into the conflict then his regime is finished. The Turkish military would squash whatever loyalist forces he has left, especially once his airforce and artillery goes from attacking civilian neighborhoods to being smoking wrecks.
.
Iraq warned Turkey day ago
Russians warned Nato re Syria day ago
Iran has warned Turkey a few times
Nato/Turkey getting involved in Syria, meaning getting involved with Russia and Iran and China
Probably Turkey will be loser at the end .. could lose Kurdish part of present Turkey
Nato will think twice getting involved as would mean facing Russia
Americans thinking to integrate Afghanistan into "missile defense system" .. Russia, Pakistan, Iran, China will not let it happen
well
Ibrahim, this a trap .. remember Saddam .. had he not attacked Iran, he would still be around .. and .. remember, there were same people (Saudi and Kuwaiti and Qatari and Brits and Americans) that enticed Saddam to Attack Iran promising money and and and
AND ? he f*cked and lost Mesopotamia to Iran
Be careful
.
Good Advice but IIRC opportunity can be associated with danger.....Be careful
Would that be a bad thing for Turkey? Lose all those pesky Kurds..... The Blowback from Killing the Armenians........Probably Turkey will be loser at the end .. could lose Kurdish part of present Turkey
And maybe gain the Sunni Syrians....... Could be the first step toward a resurgent empire.....
IIRC Hans has said that the Arabs were better off under the Ottomans.......
Situations like this remind me a bit of Thailand where I have wondered it the Buddhists in the north might do well to lose the Beheading Bastard Muslims in south........
http://www.barenakedislam.com/2011/05/0 ... ic-images/
Problem being a victory like that might energize Salafi Slimes generally.....
Likewise in the case of Turkey it might energize Kurds elsewhere (Iran, "Russia" etc.) to go and do likewise BUT that might be to Turkey's advantage.....
AIUI Turkey is a rival of Iran and traditionally has NO love for Russia........
That being said, I still reluctantly favor the status quo....... Lots of people likely to die if any of this happens...... Christians especially.....
For that matter, Mr. Perfect has suggested that Uz lose California to Mexico........
I disagree but.........
For the love of G_d, consider you & I may be mistaken.
Orion Must Rise: Killer Space Rocks Coming Our way
The Best Laid Plans of Men, Monkeys & Pigs Oft Go Awry
Woe to those who long for the Day of the Lord, for It is Darkness, Not Light
Orion Must Rise: Killer Space Rocks Coming Our way
The Best Laid Plans of Men, Monkeys & Pigs Oft Go Awry
Woe to those who long for the Day of the Lord, for It is Darkness, Not Light
Re: Turko-Syrian War
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/05/world ... =2&_r=0&hp
Turkey's Parliament gave the green light for escalation.
Turkey's Parliament gave the green light for escalation.
Men often oppose a thing merely because they have had no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike.
-Alexander Hamilton
-Alexander Hamilton
Re: Danger and Opportunity.........
monster_gardener wrote:.Thank you Very Much for your post, Azari.Jnalum Persicum wrote:.Seems 2me, west pulling a Saddam Hussein on TurkeyIbrahim wrote:.I could see them tapping NATO air assets (AWACS, CnC communications for coordinating air strikes) out of the gate. No actual combat forces from other countries though.Enki wrote:.
Yup, especially since if Turkey takes any kind of pounding at all they get NATO support.Ibrahim wrote:.
It's so self-destructive for the Assad regime that one almost wonders if it was a false-flag operation by the rebels. In any case if Assad draws any outside power into the conflict then his regime is finished. The Turkish military would squash whatever loyalist forces he has left, especially once his airforce and artillery goes from attacking civilian neighborhoods to being smoking wrecks.
.
Iraq warned Turkey day ago
Russians warned Nato re Syria day ago
Iran has warned Turkey a few times
Nato/Turkey getting involved in Syria, meaning getting involved with Russia and Iran and China
Probably Turkey will be loser at the end .. could lose Kurdish part of present Turkey
Nato will think twice getting involved as would mean facing Russia
Americans thinking to integrate Afghanistan into "missile defense system" .. Russia, Pakistan, Iran, China will not let it happen
well
Ibrahim, this a trap .. remember Saddam .. had he not attacked Iran, he would still be around .. and .. remember, there were same people (Saudi and Kuwaiti and Qatari and Brits and Americans) that enticed Saddam to Attack Iran promising money and and and
AND ? he f*cked and lost Mesopotamia to Iran
Be careful
.
Good Advice but IIRC opportunity can be associated with danger.....Be careful
Would that be a bad thing for Turkey? Lose all those pesky Kurds..... The Blowback from Killing the Armenians........Probably Turkey will be loser at the end .. could lose Kurdish part of present Turkey
And maybe gain the Sunni Syrians....... Could be the first step toward a resurgent empire.....
IIRC Hans has said that the Arabs were better off under the Ottomans.......
Situations like this remind me a bit of Thailand where I have wondered it the Buddhists in the north might do well to lose the Beheading Bastard Muslims in south........
http://www.barenakedislam.com/2011/05/0 ... ic-images/
Problem being a victory like that might energize Salafi Slimes generally.....
Likewise in the case of Turkey it might energize Kurds elsewhere (Iran, "Russia" etc.) to go and do likewise BUT that might be to Turkey's advantage.....
AIUI Turkey is a rival of Iran and traditionally has NO love for Russia........
That being said, I still reluctantly favor the status quo....... Lots of people likely to die if any of this happens...... Christians especially.....
For that matter, Mr. Perfect has suggested that Uz lose California to Mexico........
I disagree but........
.
Monster , you making huuuuge mistakes,
If Kurds exit Turkey, and somehow Turkey joins with part of Syria, if so, Turkey could become a "majority" Shia , Alawi + Alevi
.
The Alawis, also known as Alawites, Nusayris and Ansaris (‘Alawīyyah (Arabic: علوية), Nuṣayrī (Arabic: نصيريون), and al-Anṣāriyyah) are a prominent mystical religious group centred in Syria who follow a branch of the Twelver school of Shia Islam.
.
FYI, Twelver school of Shia Islam, is Shia Safavi, Iranian Shia
.
Aleviness developed out of Shi'a Islam.
The Turkic tribes of northern Iran and eastern Anatolia were converted to Shī‘ism during the Ilkhan Mongol period.
The Qizilbash emerged from this milieu as a militant Sufi order centered in Ardabil whose leader Shah Ismā‘il succeeded in conquering Persia.
.
Ghizilbash and Shahsavan are Persian and also most of present (Turkish) Turkey
.
Qizilbash or Kizilbash (Nastaliq: قزلباش - Qızılbāš; Ottoman Turkish for "Crimson/Red Heads"; sometimes also Qezelbash or Qazilbash) is the label given to a wide variety of Shī‘ī Islamic militant groups (ghulāt) that flourished in Anatolia and Kurdistan from the late 13th century onwards, some of which contributed to the foundation of the Safavid dynasty of Iran.
.
Well ,
Am not sure you know what you getting into .. this could be "mother of all unintended consequences"
look, Monster
what could happen is , like you were thinking Iraqi will welcome you with sweet and flower, instead, the Iraqi welcomed the Iranians with sweet and flower and escorted you out
meaning
Those "Shia 12 Emami" Turks will shake hand with their brothers Pomegranates and and and
That has happened many many many times .. pretty much always WITHOUT EXCEPTION
Pretty much all Turks became PASSIONATE Pomegranates .. Without Turkic Persian Dynasties and Kings, Iran would not exist today, they made present Iran .. pretty much all Persian dynasties of last 800 yrs, were Turks
so
what can and most probably will happen, is
Iran will take them all in .. including the MEDS (Kurds)
you basically helping creating "Greater Persia"
And
don't think anybody talking Turkish is Turk .. Azari , Arran, Shirvan, Kurds, Talesh they Aryan and spoke Pahlavi-Persian .. Saljugh turned their language to Persian-Turkish dialect
As said many times, America and west should leave that era , you guys don't understand that space .. any Iranian would have told you what would happen in Iraq .. even kids on the street would have said you the outcome .. this whole thing cultural, civilization .. 1000+ yrs old
NYT : As Syria War Roils, Unrest Among Sects Hits Turkey
.
“We’re all with Assad,” he said.
Not far away in the Alawite-dominated town of Harbiye, there is a new best-selling item that cannot seem to stay on the shelves: cheap tapestries bearing Mr. Assad’s portrait.
“Everybody wants them,” said Selahattin Eroglu, a vendor, who had just sold his last one. “People here love Assad.”
.
Told you Ibrahim, this a trap .. Kamal Pasha turning in his grave .. "soft Islam" rubbish .. the Generals neutralized by western agent on pretext of democracy .. Turkey in mortal danger
.
- monster_gardener
- Posts: 5334
- Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:36 am
- Location: Trolla. Land of upside down trees and tomatos........
Awe Inspiring Acts
Thank you Very Much for your post, Azari.Jnalum Persicum wrote:monster_gardener wrote:.Thank you Very Much for your post, Azari.Jnalum Persicum wrote:.Seems 2me, west pulling a Saddam Hussein on TurkeyIbrahim wrote:.I could see them tapping NATO air assets (AWACS, CnC communications for coordinating air strikes) out of the gate. No actual combat forces from other countries though.Enki wrote:.
Yup, especially since if Turkey takes any kind of pounding at all they get NATO support.Ibrahim wrote:.
It's so self-destructive for the Assad regime that one almost wonders if it was a false-flag operation by the rebels. In any case if Assad draws any outside power into the conflict then his regime is finished. The Turkish military would squash whatever loyalist forces he has left, especially once his airforce and artillery goes from attacking civilian neighborhoods to being smoking wrecks.
.
Iraq warned Turkey day ago
Russians warned Nato re Syria day ago
Iran has warned Turkey a few times
Nato/Turkey getting involved in Syria, meaning getting involved with Russia and Iran and China
Probably Turkey will be loser at the end .. could lose Kurdish part of present Turkey
Nato will think twice getting involved as would mean facing Russia
Americans thinking to integrate Afghanistan into "missile defense system" .. Russia, Pakistan, Iran, China will not let it happen
well
Ibrahim, this a trap .. remember Saddam .. had he not attacked Iran, he would still be around .. and .. remember, there were same people (Saudi and Kuwaiti and Qatari and Brits and Americans) that enticed Saddam to Attack Iran promising money and and and
AND ? he f*cked and lost Mesopotamia to Iran
Be careful
.
Good Advice but IIRC opportunity can be associated with danger.....Be careful
Would that be a bad thing for Turkey? Lose all those pesky Kurds..... The Blowback from Killing the Armenians........Probably Turkey will be loser at the end .. could lose Kurdish part of present Turkey
And maybe gain the Sunni Syrians....... Could be the first step toward a resurgent empire.....
IIRC Hans has said that the Arabs were better off under the Ottomans.......
Situations like this remind me a bit of Thailand where I have wondered it the Buddhists in the north might do well to lose the Beheading Bastard Muslims in south........
http://www.barenakedislam.com/2011/05/0 ... ic-images/
Problem being a victory like that might energize Salafi Slimes generally.....
Likewise in the case of Turkey it might energize Kurds elsewhere (Iran, "Russia" etc.) to go and do likewise BUT that might be to Turkey's advantage.....
AIUI Turkey is a rival of Iran and traditionally has NO love for Russia........
That being said, I still reluctantly favor the status quo....... Lots of people likely to die if any of this happens...... Christians especially.....
For that matter, Mr. Perfect has suggested that Uz lose California to Mexico........
I disagree but........
.
Monster , you making huuuuge mistakes,
If Kurds exit Turkey, and somehow Turkey joins with part of Syria, if so, Turkey could become a "majority" Shia , Alawi + Alevi
.
The Alawis, also known as Alawites, Nusayris and Ansaris (‘Alawīyyah (Arabic: علوية), Nuṣayrī (Arabic: نصيريون), and al-Anṣāriyyah) are a prominent mystical religious group centred in Syria who follow a branch of the Twelver school of Shia Islam.
.
FYI, Twelver school of Shia Islam, is Shia Safavi, Iranian Shia
.
Aleviness developed out of Shi'a Islam.
The Turkic tribes of northern Iran and eastern Anatolia were converted to Shī‘ism during the Ilkhan Mongol period.
The Qizilbash emerged from this milieu as a militant Sufi order centered in Ardabil whose leader Shah Ismā‘il succeeded in conquering Persia.
.
Ghizilbash and Shahsavan are Persian and also most of present (Turkish) Turkey
.
Qizilbash or Kizilbash (Nastaliq: قزلباش - Qızılbāš; Ottoman Turkish for "Crimson/Red Heads"; sometimes also Qezelbash or Qazilbash) is the label given to a wide variety of Shī‘ī Islamic militant groups (ghulāt) that flourished in Anatolia and Kurdistan from the late 13th century onwards, some of which contributed to the foundation of the Safavid dynasty of Iran.
.
Well ,
Am not sure you know what you getting into .. this could be "mother of all unintended consequences"
look, Monster
what could happen is , like you were thinking Iraqi will welcome you with sweet and flower, instead, the Iraqi welcomed the Iranians with sweet and flower and escorted you out
meaning
Those "Shia 12 Emami" Turks will shake hand with their brothers Pomegranates and and and
That has happened many many many times .. pretty much always WITHOUT EXCEPTION
Pretty much all Turks became PASSIONATE Pomegranates .. Without Turkic Persian Dynasties and Kings, Iran would not exist today, they made present Iran .. pretty much all Persian dynasties of last 800 yrs, were Turks
so
what can and most probably will happen, is
Iran will take them all in .. including the MEDS (Kurds)
you basically helping creating "Greater Persia"
And
don't think anybody talking Turkish is Turk .. Azari , Arran, Shirvan, Kurds, Talesh they Aryan and spoke Pahlavi-Persian .. Saljugh turned their language to Persian-Turkish dialect
As said many times, America and west should leave that era , you guys don't understand that space .. any Iranian would have told you what would happen in Iraq .. even kids on the street would have said you the outcome .. this whole thing cultural, civilization .. 1000+ yrs old
NYT : As Syria War Roils, Unrest Among Sects Hits Turkey
.
“We’re all with Assad,” he said.
Not far away in the Alawite-dominated town of Harbiye, there is a new best-selling item that cannot seem to stay on the shelves: cheap tapestries bearing Mr. Assad’s portrait.
“Everybody wants them,” said Selahattin Eroglu, a vendor, who had just sold his last one. “People here love Assad.”
.
Told you Ibrahim, this a trap .. Kamal Pasha turning in his grave .. "soft Islam" rubbish .. the Generals neutralized by western agent on pretext of democracy .. Turkey in mortal danger
.
With all due respect, I think you are misunderstanding me. I'm expecting likely Death and Destruction...
Again, my reluctant vote is for the status quo and Assad because he has been a protector of the Christians and other minorities.
And despite the fact that he is the Tool of Iran against Israel.
And because when you stir a geographic pot in the Middle East, you never know for sure what sort of Evil Efreets oops I mean Effects may result..........
Just that likely it may/will be worse than what you have already.....
The Arabs found that out in spades when they invaded the UN Partition in 1948..........
What I was remembering is a map IIRC somewhere in the Syria Thread that show the religous/ethnic boundaries in Syria.........
And at least on paper, the Sunnis dominate.......
Googled some links that show similar maps below. Maybe better as they shows more detail.
Text link indicates that the Sunnis may not be as dominant as the map indicates
And Turkey might decide not to take it all...... Maybe the Alawites and Christians would end up with a rump state near the coast under ASSad with Russian protection......
While instead of letting the Kurds go, the Turks get an opportunity do what they did with Armenians.....
But again opportunity and risk depending on what "Awe Inspiring" acts you are willing to do and recent history shows that like Russian Tsar Ivan IV, the Turks can be quite "Awe Inspiring"
http://www.education.com/study-help/art ... -terrible/
NOTE: More Maps........ & link
http://www.fragilestates.org/2012/02/20 ... s-divides/
http://www.fragilestates.org/2012/02/20 ... s-divides/
"DAMN!" "ASS!" "CUSS!" The situation in Syria is enough to make a preacher in Damascus swear!
For the love of G_d, consider you & I may be mistaken.
Orion Must Rise: Killer Space Rocks Coming Our way
The Best Laid Plans of Men, Monkeys & Pigs Oft Go Awry
Woe to those who long for the Day of the Lord, for It is Darkness, Not Light
Orion Must Rise: Killer Space Rocks Coming Our way
The Best Laid Plans of Men, Monkeys & Pigs Oft Go Awry
Woe to those who long for the Day of the Lord, for It is Darkness, Not Light
Re: Turko-Syrian War
Since this was a renewal/expansion of the anti-PKK law form some years ago, it actually gives the Turkish government carte blanche to do pretty much anything in Syria. It doesn't mean that they will exploit that mandate to the limit. It all rests with Erdogan right now.Enki wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/05/world ... =2&_r=0&hp
Turkey's Parliament gave the green light for escalation.
Re: Turko-Syrian War
Well this is how wars go. It's small little incursions back and forth, less restraint on both sides until its full blown.Ibrahim wrote:Since this was a renewal/expansion of the anti-PKK law form some years ago, it actually gives the Turkish government carte blanche to do pretty much anything in Syria. It doesn't mean that they will exploit that mandate to the limit. It all rests with Erdogan right now.Enki wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/05/world ... =2&_r=0&hp
Turkey's Parliament gave the green light for escalation.
Men often oppose a thing merely because they have had no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike.
-Alexander Hamilton
-Alexander Hamilton
Re: Turko-Syrian War
That's what I was thinking. I think that it probably was a false-flag operation.Ibrahim wrote:It's so self-destructive for the Assad regime that one almost wonders if it was a false-flag operation by the rebels.
Yeah. It would probably be over within two months.In any case if Assad draws any outside power into the conflict then his regime is finished. The Turkish military would squash whatever loyalist forces he has left, especially once his airforce and artillery goes from attacking civilian neighborhoods to being smoking wrecks.
cultivate a white rose
Re: Turko-Syrian War
And once the Turkish Army is doing heavy fighting deep in Syria, the Israelis might think that gives them cover to attack Iran.Enki wrote:Well this is how wars go. It's small little incursions back and forth, less restraint on both sides until its full blown.Ibrahim wrote:Since this was a renewal/expansion of the anti-PKK law form some years ago, it actually gives the Turkish government carte blanche to do pretty much anything in Syria. It doesn't mean that they will exploit that mandate to the limit. It all rests with Erdogan right now.Enki wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/05/world ... =2&_r=0&hp
Turkey's Parliament gave the green light for escalation.
cultivate a white rose
Re: Turko-Syrian War
I think Azari's point about how destabilization helps Iran due to the demographic/geographic spread of the Shia populations.
Men often oppose a thing merely because they have had no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike.
-Alexander Hamilton
-Alexander Hamilton
Re: Turko-Syrian War
I doubt Turkey will engage in major ground operations, nor do I think it would be particularly good for anyone if they did. Air power, heavy artillery support, and perhaps some special forces will be the order of the day. The Libyan campaign will be the NATO model going forward in dealing with civil wars against obviously unpopular dictators.Azrael wrote:And once the Turkish Army is doing heavy fighting deep in Syria, the Israelis might think that gives them cover to attack Iran.Enki wrote:Well this is how wars go. It's small little incursions back and forth, less restraint on both sides until its full blown.Ibrahim wrote:Since this was a renewal/expansion of the anti-PKK law form some years ago, it actually gives the Turkish government carte blanche to do pretty much anything in Syria. It doesn't mean that they will exploit that mandate to the limit. It all rests with Erdogan right now.Enki wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/05/world ... =2&_r=0&hp
Turkey's Parliament gave the green light for escalation.
I don't know how it benefits Israeli intentions towards Iran, though I would think the distraction is bad for Bibi's PR offensive.
I think the status quo antebellum was preferable for Iran, because it allowed them to funnel arms through friendly Syria to their Hezbollah allies/strategic depth in Lebanon. Now that axis has been disrupted, and Tehran is forced to back the losing horse in Syria. The specifics of this particular chaos don't work in their favor, unlike Iraq where they worked almost entirely in Iran's favor.Enki wrote:I think Azari's point about how destabilization helps Iran due to the demographic/geographic spread of the Shia populations.
Re: Turko-Syrian War
New Empires arise from the ashes of podunk backwaters in situations just like these.
Men often oppose a thing merely because they have had no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike.
-Alexander Hamilton
-Alexander Hamilton
- Hans Bulvai
- Posts: 1056
- Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:30 pm
- Location: Underneath everything
Re: Turko-Syrian War
Turkey's venturing into Syria would not be a cake walk.
Actually, pretty clever of Asad to try and pull Turkey into the conflict.
Turkey has much more to lose that Asad. Desperate times call for desperate measures.
Any intervention in Syria will bleed Turkey and reverse the gains from years past.
What I think is funny is Mr. Erdogan for the last year telling us that Asad's days are numbered and here is Asad now killing Turkish civilians.
And to be fair, from a military standpoint, Turkey is a legitimate target for Syria since it is the face of support for the rebels.
The Turkish leadership is not stupid and will not get drawn into this conflict; yet. But it is an embarrassment to the Erdogan government.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ndate.html
Actually, pretty clever of Asad to try and pull Turkey into the conflict.
Turkey has much more to lose that Asad. Desperate times call for desperate measures.
Any intervention in Syria will bleed Turkey and reverse the gains from years past.
What I think is funny is Mr. Erdogan for the last year telling us that Asad's days are numbered and here is Asad now killing Turkish civilians.
And to be fair, from a military standpoint, Turkey is a legitimate target for Syria since it is the face of support for the rebels.
The Turkish leadership is not stupid and will not get drawn into this conflict; yet. But it is an embarrassment to the Erdogan government.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ndate.html
Wp94d-lq73IThousands protest in Turkey over Syria mandate
Protesters take to the streets in Ankara and Istanbul after Turkey's parliament approved military operations against targets in Syria following the deaths of five Turkish citizens from Syrian shelling.
I don't buy supremacy
Media chief
You menace me
The people you say
'Cause all the crime
Wake up motherfucker
And smell the slime
Media chief
You menace me
The people you say
'Cause all the crime
Wake up motherfucker
And smell the slime
Re: Turko-Syrian War
Hans Bulvai wrote:Turkey's venturing into Syria would not be a cake walk.
Actually, pretty clever of Asad to try and pull Turkey into the conflict.
Turkey has much more to lose that Asad.
Sure, "funny." Maybe Assad got bored of killing thousands and thousands of his own civilians and wanted to mix it up.What I think is funny is Mr. Erdogan for the last year telling us that Asad's days are numbered and here is Asad now killing Turkish civilians.
I'll make you a bet right now: Erdogan will be alive long after Assad is executed.
Yes, Turkey prevents Assad from killing as many Syrian civilians as he would like. If that's not a casus belli then what is?And to be fair, from a military standpoint, Turkey is a legitimate target for Syria since it is the face of support for the rebels.
That's the main reason not to let a foreign dictator and mass-murderer shell your citizens, to avoid embarrassment.The Turkish leadership is not stupid and will not get drawn into this conflict; yet. But it is an embarrassment to the Erdogan government.
- Hans Bulvai
- Posts: 1056
- Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:30 pm
- Location: Underneath everything
Re: Turko-Syrian War
So why are all these people protesting the resolution?
I don't buy supremacy
Media chief
You menace me
The people you say
'Cause all the crime
Wake up motherfucker
And smell the slime
Media chief
You menace me
The people you say
'Cause all the crime
Wake up motherfucker
And smell the slime
- Hans Bulvai
- Posts: 1056
- Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:30 pm
- Location: Underneath everything
Re: Turko-Syrian War
Turkey has much more to lose than Asad.
I don't buy supremacy
Media chief
You menace me
The people you say
'Cause all the crime
Wake up motherfucker
And smell the slime
Media chief
You menace me
The people you say
'Cause all the crime
Wake up motherfucker
And smell the slime
- Hans Bulvai
- Posts: 1056
- Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:30 pm
- Location: Underneath everything
Re: Turko-Syrian War
Tempting but what is long?Ibrahim wrote: I'll make you a bet right now: Erdogan will be alive long after Assad is executed.
But alas, I am not a betting man.
I don't buy supremacy
Media chief
You menace me
The people you say
'Cause all the crime
Wake up motherfucker
And smell the slime
Media chief
You menace me
The people you say
'Cause all the crime
Wake up motherfucker
And smell the slime
-
- Posts: 16973
- Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:35 am
Re: Turko-Syrian War
Enki wrote:.
I think Azari's point about how destabilization helps Iran due to the demographic/geographic spread of the Shia populations.
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Chaos in that space will awaken historical misalignment caused by powers of 1700-1950 .. The Ottomans, the Tzarist Russia, the Imperial British empire
Those misalignment, pretty much always, ended up being paid by Pomegranates
Tzarist Russian took most Persian heartland in central Asia, Stalin tried to wipe out Iranian civilization (language, culture, people) by creating artificial nations carved out of same people
Ottomans AND Russians took Iranian 5000 yrs old Caucasus, creating and naming new countries and nations .. Arran & Shirvan became Azerbaijan and and and
Brits in Afghanistan, Baluchistan, Bahrain, Mesopotamia usurped and renamed Persian provinces and people
These are artificial creations .. people of those places know - no power in the world can stop those realignment forces, imagine a political earth-quick with 9 on Richter scale
All will revert to natural equilibrium - mother of all people's power
You looking @ FEDERATION OF PERSIAN NATIONS
that could include part of present Turkey, most Caucasus (up to and including Daghestan) , most central Asia, Afghanistan, part of Mesopotamia, Bahrain and few others
Europe (and America) would not be against such outcome, as a "Greater Persia" would be a force against Russia - same idea Brits used Persia as buffer against Russian danger against British Indian empire @ Victoria time
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