Romney blowing away Obama, 49-45, Pew poll

Mr. Perfect
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Romney blowing away Obama, 49-45, Pew poll

Post by Mr. Perfect »

I know this belongs in the other thread but it's so shocking and reality changing and history changing it needs a lot of analysis because this is a big change in the universe and it's nature. Once it's hashed over, I'm happy to have it merged, and defer to all mod judgements as always.

http://www.people-press.org/2012/10/08/ ... amas-lead/
Mitt Romney no longer trails Barack Obama in the Pew Research Center’s presidential election polling. By about three-to-one, voters say Romney did a better job than Obama in the Oct. 3 debate, and the Republican is now better regarded on most personal dimensions and on most issues than he was in September. Romney is seen as the candidate who has new ideas and is viewed as better able than Obama to improve the jobs situation and reduce the budget deficit.

Fully 66% of registered voters say Romney did the better job in last Wednesday’s debate, compared with just 20% who say Obama did better. A majority (64%) of voters who watched the debate describe it as mostly informative; just 26% say it was mostly confusing.

In turn, Romney has drawn even with Obama in the presidential race among registered voters (46% to 46%) after trailing by nine points (42% to 51%) in September. Among likely voters, Romney holds a slight 49% to 45% edge over Obama. He trailed by eight points among likely voters last month.

The latest national survey by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press, conducted Oct. 4-7 among 1,511 adults, including 1,201 registered voters (1,112 likely voters), finds that 67% of Romney’s backers support him strongly, up from 56% last month. For the first time in the campaign, Romney draws as much strong support as does Obama.

More generally, the poll finds Romney’s supporters far more engaged in the campaign than they were in September. Fully 82% say they have given a lot of thought to the election, up from 73% in September. The new survey finds that Romney supporters hold a 15-point advantage over Obama backers on this key engagement measure. Supporters on both sides were about even in September.

Coming out of the debate, Mitt Romney’s personal image has improved. His favorable rating has hit 50% among registered voters for the first time in Pew Research Center surveys and has risen five points since September. At the same time, Obama’s personal favorability rating has fallen from 55% to 49%.

In the presidential horserace, Romney has made sizable gains over the past month among women voters, white non-Hispanics and those younger than 50. Currently, women are evenly divided (47% Obama, 47% Romney). Last month, Obama led Romney by 18 points (56% to 38%) among women likely voters.
Views of Candidates’ Traits, Issue Strengths

Romney now ties Obama in being regarded as a strong leader and runs virtually even with the president in willingness to work with leaders of the other party. And by a 47% to 40% margin, voters pick Romney as the candidate who has new ideas.

Conversely, Obama continues hold leads as the candidate who connects well with ordinary people and takes consistent positions on issues. And Obama leads by 10 points (49% to 39%) as the candidate who takes more moderate positions on issues.

Romney has gained ground on several of these measures since earlier in the campaign. Most notably, Obama and Romney now run even (44% each) in terms of which candidate is the stronger leader. Obama held a 13-point advantage on this a month ago. And Obama’s 14-point edge as the more honest and truthful candidate has narrowed to just five points.

In June, Obama held a 17-point lead as the candidate voters thought was more willing to work with leaders from the other party. Today, the candidates run about even on this (45% say Obama, 42% Romney).

Similarly, Romney has made progress on the issues. He and Obama now run about even on dealing with health care, Medicare, foreign policy and taxes. Obama led on most of these issues by significant margins in September. Romney also holds a significant 49% to 41% advantage on improving the job situation, despite the fact that most of the interviewing was conducted after the October jobs report, which showed the unemployment rate falling below 8%.

Romney also has once again opened a double-digit advantage as the candidate who can deal with the budget deficit (51% vs. 36%). Romney led by 14 points on the budget deficit in July, but had lost that advantage last month.

Swing voters express varying views of the candidates’ strengths. Some 18% of registered voters are swing voters in the latest survey, meaning they are either undecided, only lean toward one of the candidates, or favor a candidate but say there is still a chance they will change their mind. A month ago, 22% of registered voters fell in this category.

By a 69% to 7% margin, swing voters say Obama is the candidate who connects will with ordinary Americans. Swing voters also tend to rate Obama as the more consistent, honest and moderate candidate, and as a strong leader. Swing voters also favor Obama on the issues of health care, Medicare and foreign policy.

But Romney continues to hold a decided edge over Obama on jobs and the budget deficit. By a 37% to 24% margin, more swing voters say Romney would improve the job situation. Swing voters favor Romney on the deficit by a two-to-one (41% vs. 20%) margin.
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Re: Romney blowing away Obama, 49-45, pew poll

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Good gracious, women are finally tiring of the war perpetrated on them by the Democrats and Obama. Good for women!!! We love you!!!! GOP! GOP! GOP! THis is one Stormin' Mormon!!!
Romney also saw significant gains among women. Last month, women preferred Obama by an astounding 18 points. Now, they are equally split between both candidates at 47 percent apiece.
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Re: Romney blowing away Obama, 49-45, pew poll

Post by Skin Job »

Did Romney really gain 18% among likely women voters in the space of one month? Is the former poll more suspect, or the latter? I suspect the former being tilted against Romney due to the Akin flap, which evidently did not stick to Romney long, if at all.
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Re: Romney blowing away Obama, 49-45, pew poll

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Something has changed, the evidence is all around, the left constructed a Universe of Lies that just got 110 volts of reality, and revealed Romney as a likeable, friendly, capable guy, which his record suggests. If not for the MSM the left/Democrats would not even exist in this country. We are so close.
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Re: Romney blowing away Obama, 49-45, pew poll

Post by Hans Bulvai »

So what happens if Romney loses this election?
To Republicans I mean...
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Mr. Perfect
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Re: Romney blowing away Obama, 49-45, pew poll

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Great question HB, Obama very well may still win.

If Obama wins the GOP will still have the house, probably a tie in the Senate, a majority of state legislators, and over 30 governors. The Democrats don't have a single major national figure after he's gone, and so forth, so the future is a GOP future.

But it doesn't matter. If Obama wins our baseline budget will put us at about 150 debt to gdp by the end of the term, coupled with a likely recession in the 2nd term, which means America is finished. The only way to preserve modernity is to vote Romney.
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Re: Romney blowing away Obama, 49-45, pew poll

Post by Farcus »

Skin Job wrote:Did Romney really gain 18% among likely women voters in the space of one month? Is the former poll more suspect, or the latter? I suspect the former being tilted against Romney due to the Akin flap, which evidently did not stick to Romney long, if at all.

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Re: Romney blowing away Obama, 49-45, pew poll

Post by Typhoon »

Mr. Perfect wrote: . . . If Obama wins our baseline budget will put us at about 150 debt to gdp by the end of the term, coupled with a likely recession in the 2nd term, which means America is finished.

. . .
How do you arrive at this prediction? Why ~ 150% debt to gdp as opposed to 120% or 190%?
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Re: Romney blowing away Obama, 49-45, pew poll

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Typhoon wrote:
Mr. Perfect wrote: . . . If Obama wins our baseline budget will put us at about 150 debt to gdp by the end of the term, coupled with a likely recession in the 2nd term, which means America is finished.

. . .
How do you arrive at this prediction? Why ~ 150% debt to gdp as opposed to 120% or 190%?
This number went from 50 to over 100 in the first 4 years, the deficit and gdp situations don't look any different going forward so 100-150 seems about right. It certainly could be higher, but people would say I'm an alarmist and so forth. Pick a number you like, it's all too high.
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Re: Romney blowing away Obama, 49-45, Pew poll

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Image

From the crybaby files. Poor poor Andrew Sullivan.

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com ... -away.html
The Pew poll is devastating, just devastating. Before the debate, Obama had a 51 - 43 lead; now, Romney has a 49 - 45 lead. That's a simply unprecedented reversal for a candidate in October. Before Obama had leads on every policy issue and personal characteristic; now Romney leads in almost all of them. Obama's performance gave Romney a 12 point swing! I repeat: a 12 point swing.

Romney's favorables are above Obama's now. Yes, you read that right. Romney's favorables are higher than Obama's right now. That gender gap that was Obama's firewall? Over in one night:

Currently, women are evenly divided (47% Obama, 47% Romney). Last month, Obama led Romney by 18 points (56% to 38%) among women likely voters.

Seriously: has that kind of swing ever happened this late in a campaign? Has any candidate lost 18 points among women voters in one night ever? And we are told that when Obama left the stage that night, he was feeling good. That's terrifying. On every single issue, Obama has instantly plummeted into near-oblivion. He still has some personal advantages over Romney - even though they are all much diminished. Obama still has an edge on Medicare, scores much higher on relating to ordinary people, is ahead on foreign policy, and on being moderate, consistent and honest (only 14 percent of swing voters believe Romney is honest). But on the core issues of the economy and the deficit, Romney is now kicking the president's ass:

By a 37% to 24% margin, more swing voters say Romney would improve the job situation. Swing voters favor Romney on the deficit by a two-to-one (41% vs. 20%) margin.... Romney has gained ground on several of these measures since earlier in the campaign. Most notably, Obama and Romney now run even (44% each) in terms of which candidate is the stronger leader. Obama held a 13-point advantage on this a month ago. And Obama’s 14-point edge as the more honest and truthful candidate has narrowed to just five points. In June, Obama held a 17-point lead as the candidate voters thought was more willing to work with leaders from the other party. Today, the candidates run about even on this (45% say Obama, 42% Romney).

Lies work when they are unrebutted live on stage. And momentum counts at this point in the election.

I've never seen a candidate self-destruct for no external reason this late in a campaign before. Gore was better in his first debate - and he threw a solid lead into the trash that night. Even Bush was better in 2004 than Obama last week. Even Reagan's meandering mess in 1984 was better - and he had approaching Alzheimer's to blame.

I'm trying to see a silver lining. But when a president self-immolates on live TV, and his opponent shines with lies and smiles, and a record number of people watch, it's hard to see how a president and his party recover. I'm not giving up. If the lies and propaganda of the last four years work even after Obama had managed to fight back solidly against them to get a clear and solid lead in critical states, then reality-based government is over in this country again. We're back to Bush-Cheney, but more extreme. We have to find a way to avoid that. Much, much more than Obama's vanity is at stake.
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Re: Romney blowing away Obama, 49-45, pew poll

Post by Farcus »

Mr. Perfect wrote:
Typhoon wrote:
Mr. Perfect wrote: . . . If Obama wins our baseline budget will put us at about 150 debt to gdp by the end of the term, coupled with a likely recession in the 2nd term, which means America is finished.

. . .
How do you arrive at this prediction? Why ~ 150% debt to gdp as opposed to 120% or 190%?
This number went from 50 to over 100 in the first 4 years

No it didn't.
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Re: Romney blowing away Obama, 49-45, Pew poll

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Re: Romney blowing away Obama, 49-45, Pew poll

Post by Farcus »

Mr. Perfect wrote:Close enough for me.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/08 ... ntrys-gdp/

Image

Lies.
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Re: Romney blowing away Obama, 49-45, Pew poll

Post by Mr. Perfect »

So in your mind what it the current debt to gdp ratio?
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Re: Romney blowing away Obama, 49-45, Pew poll

Post by Farcus »

Mr. Perfect wrote:So in your mind what it the current debt to gdp ratio?

Doesn't matter.
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Re: Romney blowing away Obama, 49-45, Pew poll

Post by Demon of Undoing »

The fact that the numbers have moved that dramatically is sterling testimony that a large percentage of America ought not be trusted with a fork and knife at dinner.
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Re: Romney blowing away Obama, 49-45, Pew poll

Post by Skin Job »

Much less a vote, haha.
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Re: Romney blowing away Obama, 49-45, Pew poll

Post by anderson »

Issues for Mr. Romney (and Mr. Perfect)
The MSM has shown a tendency to prefer Mr. Obama.
The recent movement in the polls, post-debate has come to a large extent thanks to the MSM cooperating in propagating the consensus received wisdom that Mr. Romney won the debate and that Mr. Obama delivered a sub-par performance.
The MSM had some interest in propagating such a story, as a closer, more exciting race leads to more attention paid to the race, higher ratings, more ad revenue, etc.
The poll results have narrowed, but Obama still leads across states with enough EVs for a comfortable win.
The stumble in the first debate sets up quite naturally the followup "story" of Obama blazing back in the following debates.
This storyline was used several times in the 2008 campaign, particularly the primaries, where an Obama stumble or setback would be followed by an "Obama shines when the heat is on" moment.
With the storyline having been propagated reporting a horrible first debate for Obama, the bar has been set very low, and even a narrow "win" by Obama in the following debates could easily be spun into this storyline.
The MSM has a vested interest in seeing that storyline play out / be propagated in the aftermath of the next debates.

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Re: Romney blowing away Obama, 49-45, Pew poll

Post by Zack Morris »

The actual debt-to-GDP ratio is somewhere between 60% and 80%, depending on who you ask. The claim that Obama doubled the debt is ridiculous. At most, the TARP and stimulus seemed to have added something like 5-10%, and I think some of the projections of 100% debt-to-GDP are based on the current untenable budget situation persisting over the next 5 years.

So no, Obama is not setting us down the path of financial ruin (whatever that means in debt-to-GDP ratio).
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Re: Romney blowing away Obama, 49-45, Pew poll

Post by Juggernaut Nihilism »

Andrew Sullivan, who was completely melting down while live-blogging the debate, is seriously about to blow his brains out over the Pew poll results.
The Pew poll is devastating, just devastating. Before the debate, Obama had a 51 - 43 lead; now, Romney has a 49 - 45 lead. That's a simply unprecedented reversal for a candidate in October. Before Obama had leads on every policy issue and personal characteristic; now Romney leads in almost all of them. Obama's performance gave Romney a 12 point swing! I repeat: a 12 point swing.

Romney's favorables are above Obama's now. Yes, you read that right. Romney's favorables are higher than Obama's right now. That gender gap that was Obama's firewall? Over in one night:
Currently, women are evenly divided (47% Obama, 47% Romney). Last month, Obama led Romney by 18 points (56% to 38%) among women likely voters.
Seriously: has that kind of swing ever happened this late in a campaign? Has any candidate lost 18 points among women voters in one night ever? And we are told that when Obama left the stage that night, he was feeling good. That's terrifying. On every single issue, Obama has instantly plummeted into near-oblivion. He still has some personal advantages over Romney - even though they are all much diminished. Obama still has an edge on Medicare, scores much higher on relating to ordinary people, is ahead on foreign policy, and on being moderate, consistent and honest (only 14 percent of swing voters believe Romney is honest). But on the core issues of the economy and the deficit, Romney is now kicking the president's ass:
By a 37% to 24% margin, more swing voters say Romney would improve the job situation. Swing voters favor Romney on the deficit by a two-to-one (41% vs. 20%) margin.... Romney has gained ground on several of these measures since earlier in the campaign. Most notably, Obama and Romney now run even (44% each) in terms of which candidate is the stronger leader. Obama held a 13-point advantage on this a month ago. And Obama’s 14-point edge as the more honest and truthful candidate has narrowed to just five points. In June, Obama held a 17-point lead as the candidate voters thought was more willing to work with leaders from the other party. Today, the candidates run about even on this (45% say Obama, 42% Romney).
Lies work when they are unrebutted live on stage. And momentum counts at this point in the election.

Now look at Pew's question as to who would help the middle class the most:

http://dailydish.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83 ... 970c-popup

Look: I'm trying to rally some morale, but I've never seen a candidate this late in the game, so far ahead, just throw in the towel in the way Obama did last week - throw away almost every single advantage he had with voters and manage to enable his opponent to seem as if he cares about the middle class as much as Obama does. How do you erase that imprinted first image from public consciousness: a president incapable of making a single argument or even a halfway decent closing statement? And after Romney's convincing Etch-A-Sketch, convincing because Obama was incapable of exposing it, Romney is now the centrist candidate, even as he is running to head up the most radical party in the modern era.

How can Obama come back? By ensuring people know that Romney was and is a shameless liar and opportunist? That doesn't work for a sitting president. He always needed a clear positive proposal - tax reform, a Grand Bargain on S-B lines - as well as a sterling defense of his admirable record. Bill Clinton did the former for him. Everyone imaginable did what they could for him. And his response? Well, let's look back a bit:
With President Obama holed up in a Nevada resort for debate practice, things can get pretty boring on the White House beat right now. Pretty boring for Obama too, apparently. "Basically they're keeping me indoors all the time," Obama told a supporter on the phone during a visit to a Las Vegas area field office. "It's a drag," he added. "They're making me do my homework."
Too arrogant to take a core campaign responsibility seriously. Too arrogant to give his supporters what they deserve. If he now came out and said he supports Simpson-Bowles in its entirety, it would look desperate, but now that Romney has junked every proposal he ever told his base, and we're in mid-October, it's Obama's only chance on the economy.

Or maybe, just maybe, Obama can regain our trust and confidence somehow in the next debate. Maybe he can begin to give us a positive vision of what he wants to do (amazing that it's October and some of us are still trying to help him, but he cannot). Maybe if Romney can turn this whole campaign around in 90 minutes, Obama can now do the same. But I doubt it. A sitting president does not recover from being obliterated on substance, style and likability in the first debate and get much of a chance to come back. He has, at a critical moment, deeply depressed his base and his supporters and independents are flocking to Romney in droves.

I've never seen a candidate self-destruct for no external reason this late in a campaign before. Gore was better in his first debate - and he threw a solid lead into the trash that night. Even Bush was better in 2004 than Obama last week. Even Reagan's meandering mess in 1984 was better - and he had approaching Alzheimer's to blame.

I'm trying to see a silver lining. But when a president self-immolates on live TV, and his opponent shines with lies and smiles, and a record number of people watch, it's hard to see how a president and his party recover. I'm not giving up. If the lies and propaganda of the last four years work even after Obama had managed to fight back solidly against them to get a clear and solid lead in critical states, then reality-based government is over in this country again. We're back to Bush-Cheney, but more extreme. We have to find a way to avoid that. Much, much more than Obama's vanity is at stake.
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Re: Romney blowing away Obama, 49-45, Pew poll

Post by Ibrahim »

Demon of Undoing wrote:The fact that the numbers have moved that dramatically is sterling testimony that a large percentage of America ought not be trusted with a fork and knife at dinner.

True. Another indicator is that people care about a nationwide poll at all, given that the electoral college makes it irrelevant. I guess it's a way to keep theoretical score on how a national campaign is going, something to look at on a Tuesday when there are no NFL/NCAA games to watch.
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Re: Romney blowing away Obama, 49-45, Pew poll

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Romney takes the lead for the first time since the primaries in the RCP average. Historic.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls ... -1171.html
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Re: Romney blowing away Obama, 49-45, Pew poll

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Zack Morris wrote:The actual debt-to-GDP ratio is somewhere between 60% and 80%, depending on who you ask. The claim that Obama doubled the debt is ridiculous. At most, the TARP and stimulus seemed to have added something like 5-10%, and I think some of the projections of 100% debt-to-GDP are based on the current untenable budget situation persisting over the next 5 years.

So no, Obama is not setting us down the path of financial ruin (whatever that means in debt-to-GDP ratio).
Man, you can't even do kids arithmetic.

National debt:

16.1 trillion.
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

GDP:

15.4 trillion.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp

Do you need help putting that into a fractional or percentage form?
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Re: Romney blowing away Obama, 49-45, Pew poll

Post by Farcus »

Mr. Perfect wrote:
Zack Morris wrote:The actual debt-to-GDP ratio is somewhere between 60% and 80%, depending on who you ask. The claim that Obama doubled the debt is ridiculous. At most, the TARP and stimulus seemed to have added something like 5-10%, and I think some of the projections of 100% debt-to-GDP are based on the current untenable budget situation persisting over the next 5 years.

So no, Obama is not setting us down the path of financial ruin (whatever that means in debt-to-GDP ratio).
Man, you can't even do kids arithmetic.

National debt:

16.1 trillion.
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

GDP:

15.4 trillion.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp

Do you need help putting that into a fractional or percentage form?

That Obama's a bastard for putting all that debt on us!! 16.1 trillion Dollars? genuflect me I think he's skimming!
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Re: Romney blowing away Obama, 49-45, Pew poll

Post by anderson »

Mr. Perfect wrote:
Zack Morris wrote:The actual debt-to-GDP ratio is somewhere between 60% and 80%, depending on who you ask. The claim that Obama doubled the debt is ridiculous. At most, the TARP and stimulus seemed to have added something like 5-10%, and I think some of the projections of 100% debt-to-GDP are based on the current untenable budget situation persisting over the next 5 years.

So no, Obama is not setting us down the path of financial ruin (whatever that means in debt-to-GDP ratio).
Man, you can't even do kids arithmetic.

National debt:

16.1 trillion.
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

GDP:

15.4 trillion.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp

Do you need help putting that into a fractional or percentage form?
I think he is talking about debt held by the public, which is currently around 11 trillion or about 72% GDP.
This last post of yours, you're talking about total gross debt, including intra-governmental debt.
Part of the confusion might stem from you posting a graph earlier that was showing debt owed to the public.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt
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