Musicology | Love 'em, Hate 'em

[noddy]

Great bass sound for the context.

with the guitarist singing, the bass player provided most of the fills and interest in the band, which is another thing I like about them

I've not touched a bass guitar in a long while, just haven't been hearing it.

I'm lacking that delusional self confidence that something great is about to come out.

hah - yeh, its not healthy when i catch a glimpse of my mediocrity in the mirror.

the trick is to be comfortable with being a fat, old, rock and roll dinosaur playing for fun.

And feel like my approach to playing has been unfocused, doing too much.

which is when I listen to things like the stranglers - that kind of music milks the most out of the least.

2 changes ? great, thats a song.

[noddy]

yeah, it's here nor there but mention of Australia Day and music reminds me of her; in our last conversation, she told me-- and it was the only time she ever talked about it with me-- a story about being in Perth on Australia Day. Unfortunately, most of what was actually said has faded from memory.

Perth is very italian , huge part of our migrant culture.

they even invented a new sandwich https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conti_roll

basically, hungry worker walking into an italian deli and when asked which meats and pickled treats they wanted on their roll, they said "yes" and got all of them

so its ham and atleast 2 types of salami, then enough salad and pickles to carry all that meat.

[Nonc Hilaire]

I really want to try this.

Ymix could find me a stolen one. I just know it.

https://youtu.be/y7gQ0OEwHkA?si=Cy_JETkOus9TzXq6

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

I really want to try this.

Ymix could find me a stolen one. I just know it.

https://youtu.be/y7gQ0OEwHkA?si=Cy_JETkOus9TzXq6

The TV remote of instruments

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

lydian doesnt exist, its just phrygian with tension

my current amusement, to break out of my minor rut, is mixolydian with a flat 6, which kinda wobbles between diatonic and whole tone.

which is my favroute thing in the minor world - phyrigian or dorian with a flat 5, which wobbles between diatonic and diminished.

Phyrigian is the second, minor rut.

Love dorian but can't remember the last time I came up with anything in it. Getting to that point with mixolydian too, which is no good- it's quintessential rock.

Think part of it is this habit where I just default to 9th and 11ths instead of 7ths.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

Elton John- Honky Cat (Live 1972)

[Nonc Hilaire]

Elton John- Honky Cat (Live 1972)

I loved EJ when he was fresh. Now, the same songs are annoyingly over dramatic.

[Nonc Hilaire]

I really want to try this.

Ymix could find me a stolen one. I just know it.

https://youtu.be/y7gQ0OEwHkA?si=Cy_JETkOus9TzXq6

The TV remote of instruments

I’m sure it’s awful, but not as awful as this guy makes it.

Button keyboards can do things piano keyboards cannot. Tied notes, slurs, 1/32 note arpeggios.

https://youtube.com/shorts/kO1KDosJGVc? ... tjw6LCPMW8
https://youtu.be/woI2FyK5MG0?si=zj5EZUvEMBHDF1rO

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

I really want to try this.

Ymix could find me a stolen one. I just know it.

https://youtu.be/y7gQ0OEwHkA?si=Cy_JETkOus9TzXq6

The TV remote of instruments

I’m sure it’s awful, but not as awful as this guy makes it.

Button keyboards can do things piano keyboards cannot. Tied notes, slurs, 1/32 note arpeggios.

https://youtube.com/shorts/kO1KDosJGVc? ... tjw6LCPMW8
https://youtu.be/woI2FyK5MG0?si=zj5EZUvEMBHDF1rO

Definitely; not knocking them. I've always want to write something for accordion but between not meeting many and not having a feel for the instrument, it hasn't happened yet.

The Yamaha looks still looks like a remote; or like Yamaha was trying to sell "rockstar" (as the headstock suggests).

--------------------

Speaking of instruments and delusions; I've been eyeing deals for pocket trumpets.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

Elton John- Honky Cat (Live 1972)

I loved EJ when he was fresh. Now, the same songs are annoyingly over dramatic.

Yes; I think this thread relegated him to "hate'em" for that reason of wearing out his welcome.

I don't listen to him enough to get to that point.

There are 2 things wrong with Elton in my opinion

1) Bernie Taupin is the real drama queen of the duo. I think his lyrics are overbearing with too many clunkers.

2) None of the studio recordings are all that good. Maybe it's my ears but the mixes on those things never sound right. They are leaking energy on anything that's not a ballad.

It's the instrumentation. There are some fantastic bass lines and some good drumming in Elton John songs. But then 70s guitar comes in, and it's too much. Looking at live recordings on youtube, it's not a whole lot better.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

I've been looking for examples of rock after 1970 where a piano/keyboardist and guitarist are really working together in sync.

It's either the one instrument or the other that takes lead, the soundscape has trouble fitting both of them at the same time.

The 70s Rolling Stones but they are a time warp themselves. Maybe some prog acts? But then in the mind's eye I just see a lot of texture and color stuff and swapping back and forth on whose out front.

Or the immortal: "I'm gonna play a keyboard now, which means this is going to get serious."

edit: speaking of soundscape, it's the difference in drumming too. Drummers take up space too, so the percussive aspect goes too.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

3rd Secret- Rhythm of the Ride

[Nonc Hilaire]

I've been looking for examples of rock after 1970 where a piano/keyboardist and guitarist are really working together in sync.

Dream Theater

[noddy]

most Peter Gabriel tracks keys/guitar/bass are all balanced and intertwined.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9oYSawDEkA

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

Good suggestions

----------

Of course, I forget that affordable polyphonic electronic keyboards are fairly recent.

Peter Gabriel's band could afford top of the line in 1980 (if not paying to lug/rent a piano from city to city) but what was that? 64 voice keyboards?

[noddy]

Peter famously had enough personality?clout?pigheadedness?craftyness? to make the record company spend the entire budget for his album on his own studio and gear setup.

"so you have 100k to spend on this album ? , i know the perfect studio to hire..."

when i was kid watching top of the pops, his first big hit stood out from the rest like chalk and cheese.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnVf1ZoCJSo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xZmlUV8muY

[noddy]

keyboard in general take proper composition to fit in a rock band, its probbly more than the cost and size.

a good keyboarder can play bass and guitar at the same time, so in that rock environment of songs being written as spontaenous jams between the members, its hard for them to fit in right.

one of my bands had a keyboardist, and it always tended towards keyboard OR guitar/bass dominated flavours, just naturally.

oscar peterson's bands spend alot of time just shutting up and letting him play, then when he needs a break, he goes back to close hands and chord stabs while the rest do something.

the only other space is completely different tones to the strings - organ noises, synth noises, which also declutters.

---

yahama dx7 - that was the first cheap polyphonic synth for the masses back in my day

[noddy]

faith no more also had keyboards front and centre with the guitars, it triggered the metal type guitarist they had to get sacked cause he didnt like it.

i like and dislike faith no more, but they certainly got some things right, sometimes

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

yahama dx7 - that was the first cheap polyphonic synth for the masses back in my day

Manufactured between 1983-1989; 16 voice polyphony.

That's wild.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

Stevie Wonder- Higher Ground (1974)

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

keyboard in general take proper composition to fit in a rock band, its probbly more than the cost and size.

a good keyboarder can play bass and guitar at the same time, so in that rock environment of songs being written as spontaenous jams between the members, its hard for them to fit in right.

one of my bands had a keyboardist, and it always tended towards keyboard OR guitar/bass dominated flavours, just naturally.

oscar peterson's bands spend alot of time just shutting up and letting him play, then when he needs a break, he goes back to close hands and chord stabs while the rest do something.

the only other space is completely different tones to the strings - organ noises, synth noises, which also declutters.

Yes. It mostly comes down to one or the other without careful thought. 'Specially with any tone that isn't 50s roots rock.

The Oscar Peterson/jazz thing is a bit of an unfair comparison because the dynamics are different. Laying back and each instrument getting their solo/lead time is not a rock tradition.

[noddy]

yahama dx7 - that was the first cheap polyphonic synth for the masses back in my day

Manufactured between 1983-1989; 16 voice polyphony.

That's wild.

https://analog-and-digital-synthesizers ... Yamaha_DX7

its pretty much the entire 80;s sound now I look into it.

I only remembered it because our keyboardist used one.

[noddy]

The Oscar Peterson/jazz thing is a bit of an unfair comparison because the dynamics are different. Laying back and each instrument getting their solo/lead time is not a rock tradition.

yeh, but normally the rest of the band goes into "comping" when a person takes a solo.

when oscar plays, everyone just stops playing entirely for minutes while he does bass, chords and melody in free form, and their is no space for anyone else.

it also made me think of bernie worrel, another classicaly trained 2 handed monster who spent his entire career (exageration) playing one handed bass lines and melodies on 2 octave moogs.

he also played in "jam" bands.

organ type sounds are the exception, which happens to also to be the great 70's rock keyboard sounds ala deep purple.

[noddy]

Stevie Wonder- Higher Ground (1974)

awesome.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

The Oscar Peterson/jazz thing is a bit of an unfair comparison because the dynamics are different. Laying back and each instrument getting their solo/lead time is not a rock tradition.

yeh, but normally the rest of the band goes into "comping" when a person takes a solo.

when oscar plays, everyone just stops playing entirely for minutes while he does bass, chords and melody in free form, and their is no space for anyone else.

it also made me think of bernie worrel, another classicaly trained 2 handed monster who spent his entire career (exageration) playing one handed bass lines and melodies on 2 octave moogs.

he also played in "jam" bands.

organ type sounds are the exception, which happens to also to be the great 70's rock keyboard sounds ala deep purple.

Were there guys going to Oscar Peterson shows saying afterwards, "The band was really good, but this guy at the piano just sucked all the attention away towards himself."

Everything that can be said about Oscar Peterson has already been said. Of all the famous jazz pianist, he's the least helpful to me because I can't borrow anything there; outside double stops.

It becomes a physical thing, the man had massive, quick hands which allowed him to do things with no problem that it would take years of practice to simulate.