Anti-Americanism worldwide

[Hoosiernorm]

Alexis: Pretty much all of Asia has a low opinion of the US.

Look up the source I was referring to, and select by "Region & Countries", checking those countries within "Asia / Pacific"

Not all have been polled. However:
- Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, Uzbekistan, Philippines have very good opinions about USA
- Indonesia, China, India, Bangladesh, Australia have what one could call balanced opinions: between 40% and 60% positive
- Only Malaysia and even more Pakistan have very low opinions about USA

Fact is that pretty much all of Asia have a balanced to very good opinion about USA.

Last I checked the vast majority of Muslim countries are in Asia.

You should read the study from Pew that Alexis is posting. It's a really good survey although some of the previous years data are incomplete.

[Enki]

Alexis: Pretty much all of Asia has a low opinion of the US.

Look up the source I was referring to, and select by "Region & Countries", checking those countries within "Asia / Pacific"

Not all have been polled. However:
- Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, Uzbekistan, Philippines have very good opinions about USA
- Indonesia, China, India, Bangladesh, Australia have what one could call balanced opinions: between 40% and 60% positive
- Only Malaysia and even more Pakistan have very low opinions about USA

Fact is that pretty much all of Asia have a balanced to very good opinion about USA.

Last I checked the vast majority of Muslim countries are in Asia.

You should read the study from Pew that Alexis is posting. It's a really good survey although some of the previous years data are incomplete.

I did read it. Lebanon and Tunisia are the only Muslim countries where the US has a positive score.

[Typhoon]

On the other hand, losing it over every minor slight, real or more typically imagined, is a certain sign of weakness and insecurity.

OH..... YEAH.....

Are you postulating that hyper-sensitivity on the part of some Canadians may not be due to their mothers not breast feeding them as infants...?

No. I'm referring to cultures were people take offence and run riot over the slightest rumour, in general, and anti Americanism specificically.

That would blow my theory all to hell......

Did you hear about the one foot tsunami that will strike in the next 100 years.....

I think that it already did.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

Anti-Americanism lives in heads (and hearts?) of Canadians who project it onto all peoples of the world.

[Juggernaut Nihilism]

Alexis: Pretty much all of Asia has a low opinion of the US.

Look up the source I was referring to, and select by "Region & Countries", checking those countries within "Asia / Pacific"

Not all have been polled. However:
- Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, Uzbekistan, Philippines have very good opinions about USA
- Indonesia, China, India, Bangladesh, Australia have what one could call balanced opinions: between 40% and 60% positive
- Only Malaysia and even more Pakistan have very low opinions about USA

Fact is that pretty much all of Asia have a balanced to very good opinion about USA.

Last I checked the vast majority of Muslim countries are in Asia.

You should read the study from Pew that Alexis is posting. It's a really good survey although some of the previous years data are incomplete.

I did read it. Lebanon and Tunisia are the only Muslim countries where the US has a positive score.

Given the state of Islam in 2012, being disliked by them is hardly a scarlet letter of shame.

[monster_gardener]

Alexis: Pretty much all of Asia has a low opinion of the US.

Look up the source I was referring to, and select by "Region & Countries", checking those countries within "Asia / Pacific"

Not all have been polled. However:
- Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, Uzbekistan, Philippines have very good opinions about USA
- Indonesia, China, India, Bangladesh, Australia have what one could call balanced opinions: between 40% and 60% positive
- Only Malaysia and even more Pakistan have very low opinions about USA

Fact is that pretty much all of Asia have a balanced to very good opinion about USA.

Last I checked the vast majority of Muslim countries are in Asia.

You should read the study from Pew that Alexis is posting. It's a really good survey although some of the previous years data are incomplete.

I did read it. Lebanon and Tunisia are the only Muslim countries where the US has a positive score.

Given the state of Islam in 2012, being disliked by them is hardly a scarlet letter of shame.

Thank you VERY Much for your post, Juggernaut.

Seconded...

[RPM]

It is not that bleak.

I read that report with interest and looked at both 'favorable' & 'unfavorable.

While majority of the countries have favorable + unfavorable exceed 90% , India was a special case. 41% favor & 11% unfavor. As if half of India doesnt care one way or another.

Also India , Bangladesh & Indonesia constitute more than half of Asian Muslim population , and they have more favorable opinion of US. It would be difficult to interpret that muslims in general have unfavorable opinion of US.

[Ibrahim]

Alexis: Pretty much all of Asia has a low opinion of the US.

Look up the source I was referring to, and select by "Region & Countries", checking those countries within "Asia / Pacific"

Not all have been polled. However:
- Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, Uzbekistan, Philippines have very good opinions about USA
- Indonesia, China, India, Bangladesh, Australia have what one could call balanced opinions: between 40% and 60% positive
- Only Malaysia and even more Pakistan have very low opinions about USA

Fact is that pretty much all of Asia have a balanced to very good opinion about USA.

Last I checked the vast majority of Muslim countries are in Asia.

Yes. But what you said was "Pretty much all of Asia has a low opinion of the US".
Which is not true, like the opinion polls I linked to demonstrate.

Note that less than 20% of Asians are Muslims...

Russia, India and China have mixed feelings on the US, so that's a lot of geographically Asian people right there. The original article I linked talks about South Korea. Japan will vary largely depending on how close you are to a US base. E.g. I'm sure people in Hokkaido like Americans a lot more than Okinawans.

Again, the point isn't that everybody on Earth hates America, its that anti-Americanism is linked to US military violence, and that this is a legitimate gripe.

[Ibrahim]

Also India , Bangladesh & Indonesia constitute more than half of Asian Muslim population , and they have more favorable opinion of US. It would be difficult to interpret that muslims in general have unfavorable opinion of US.

This is a good point. Worth noting that Bangladesh and Indonesia are two nations in which US forces are almost completely absent.

[Ibrahim]

Given the state of Islam in 2012, being disliked by them is hardly a scarlet letter of shame.

I know, right! Those jerks are mad at America just for murdering and torturing them? Nothing to be ashamed of there, not the doing it and not the rationalization of it.

[Ibrahim]

You've demonstrated the silliness of the complaints against America. Virtually all nations are guilty of at least some of the things I listed and all world powers that count are (with the possible exception of some that have willingly and cheerfully outsourced their dirty work to the US military, such as the EU member states).

Name another major power with any many foreign wars currently underway as the US. Anyway you're falling back on what I'd call the post-Abu-Ghraib American morality. No more idealism, not even a basic moral code. Just "as long as somebody else is doing it, you can't complain about us doing it. Of course most countries doing things like this do it to their own people, Americans are the ones who will show up and start killing/torturing you where you live, for reasons that are quite possibly entirely fictitious.

So again, for someone who does not live in a country on which the US drops bombs (e.g. the vast majority of the world), what could possibly provoke such intense emotions?

Dunno. A distaste for murder and torture perhaps? Anyway the point of the article is that anti-American sentiment is strongest where the US is involved militarily.

Overall, I think people are being pretty mellow about it.

[Ibrahim]

Oh, and the point of the article is that people around the world don't like the US because the US military kills them. But that's just like racism, right?

Racism is essentially about behavior. Or more specifically, it is about attributing behavior to an arbitrary group. That group can be ethnic, cultural, religious, sexual, tribal etc.

-Ibrahim (Apr 13, 2012)

Except the point isn't that all Americans are this that or the other. Its that people in other countries say they dislike America due to the ongoing actions of the US military. I guess if you don't like American soldiers raping/murdering your neighbors you are some kind of racist.

Ibrahim,

If Psy were to vent his outrage over the small minority of Muslims who engage in violent jihad by singing the following:

"Hey Muslim":

"Kill those f---ing Muslims who murder in the name of jihad
Kill those f---ing Muslims who ordered them to murder
Kill their daughters, mothers, daughters-in-law and fathers
Kill them all slowly and painfully"

...would you defend or condemn this utterance? Would you consider it "racist"?

So what are the consequences of Psy's former lyrics?

Rather than having a death sentence fatwa declared on his head, he's invited to sing for the current US President.

That is real power

Agreed. Mere US Presidents come and go, a star of Psy's caliber is clearly more powerful.



As for Huxley's comments about Psy's lyrics, I would disagree with any violence against civilians in any case (though I'm sure not all rap lyrics should be taken %100 seriously). As for calling for violence against soldiers, I don't care. That's what soldiers are for. As for your "smart take" of replacing US soldiers with members of an entire religion, I've explained previously why this is an inaccurate comparison. Soldiers are selected and trained to think/act the same and be loyal to a centralized hierarchy.

[Doc]

Wow Anti-Americanism rampant worldwide and....

Number of jailed journalists sets global record

Worldwide tally reaches highest point since CPJ began surveys in 1990. Governments use charges of terrorism, other anti-state offenses to silence critical voices. Turkey is the world’s worst jailer. A CPJ special report
At least 49 journalists remain jailed in Turkey. (AFP)


Published December 11, 2012

Imprisonment of journalists worldwide reached a record high in 2012, driven in part by the widespread use of charges of terrorism and other anti-state offenses against critical reporters and editors, the Committee to Protect Journalists has found. In its annual census of imprisoned journalists, CPJ identified 232 individuals behind bars on December 1, an increase of 53 over its 2011 tally.

Large-scale imprisonments in Turkey, Iran, and China helped lift the global tally to its highest point since CPJ began conducting worldwide surveys in 1990, surpassing the previous record of 185 in 1996. The three nations, the world’s worst jailers of the press, each made extensive use of vague anti-state laws to silence dissenting political views, including those expressed by ethnic minorities. Worldwide, anti-state charges such as terrorism, treason, and subversion were the most common allegations brought against journalists in 2012. At least 132 journalists were being held around the world on such charges, CPJ’s census found.

Eritrea and Syria also ranked among the world’s worst, each jailing numerous journalists without charge or due process and holding them in secret prisons without access to lawyers or family members. Worldwide, 63 journalists are being held without any publicly disclosed charge.

Vietnam, Azerbaijan, Ethiopia, Uzbekistan, and Saudi Arabia rounded out the 10 worst jailers. In two of those nations, Azerbaijan and Uzbekistan, the authorities used retaliatory charges such as hooliganism and drug possession to jail critical reporters and editors. In 19 cases worldwide, governments used a variety of charges unrelated to journalism to silence critical journalists. In the cases included in this census, CPJ determined that the charges were fabricated.

(Read detailed accounts of each journalist imprisoned worldwide.)

In Turkey, the world’s worst jailer with 49 journalists behind bars, the authorities held dozens of Kurdish reporters and editors on terror-related charges and a number of other journalists on charges of involvement in anti-government plots. In 2012, CPJ conducted an extensive review of imprisonments in Turkey, confirming journalism-related reasons in numerous cases previously unlisted on the organization’s annual surveys and raising the country’s total significantly. CPJ found that broadly worded anti-terror and penal code statutes have allowed Turkish authorities to conflate the coverage of banned groups and the investigation of sensitive topics with outright terrorism or other anti-state activity.

These statutes “make no distinction between journalists exercising freedom of expression and [individuals] aiding terrorism,” said Mehmet Ali Birand, a top editor with the Istanbul-based station Kanal D. Calling the use of anti-state laws against journalists a “national disease,” Birand said “the government does not differentiate between these two major things: freedom of expression and terrorism.” Among the imprisoned is Tayip Temel, editor-in-chief of Azadiya Welat, the nation’s sole Kurdish-language daily, who faced more than 20 years in prison on charges of being a member of a banned Kurdish organization. As evidence, the government has cited Temel’s published work, along with his wiretapped telephone conversations with colleagues and news sources.

Iranian journalist Zhila Bani-Yaghoub began serving her jail term in September. (AP)
Iran, the second-worst jailer with 45 behind bars, has sustained a crackdown that began after the disputed 2009 presidential election. The authorities have followed a pattern of freeing some detainees on six-figure bonds even as they make new arrests. The imprisoned include Zhila Bani-Yaghoub, an award-winning editor of the Iranian Women’s Club, a news website focusing on women’s issues. She began serving a one-year term in September on charges of “propagating against the regime” and “insulting the president” for articles she wrote during the 2009 election. Her husband, journalist Bahman Ahmadi Amouee, is serving a five-year prison term on anti-state charges.

China, the third-worst jailer, has made extensive use of anti-state charges to jail online writers expressing dissident political views and journalists covering ethnic minority groups. Nineteen of the 32 journalists held in China are Tibetans or Uighurs imprisoned for documenting ethnic tensions that escalated in 2008. The detainees include Dhondup Wangchen, a documentary filmmaker jailed after interviewing Tibetans about their lives under Chinese rule. CPJ honored Wangchen with one of its 2012 International Press Freedom Awards. “Journalists who report on areas deemed ‘most sensitive’ by the state—China’s troubled ethnic regions of Tibet and Xinjiang—are most vulnerable,” said Phelim Kine, deputy director of the Asia division of Human Rights Watch. “Journalists living and working in those areas are not just concerned with the red lines set by the state for all journalists but also the shifting gray lines, where the Chinese government’s security footing is at an ongoing, all-time high.”

The worst abuser of due process is Eritrea, which was holding 28 journalists, the fourth-highest total worldwide. No Eritrean detainee has ever been publicly charged with a crime or brought before a court for trial. President Isaias Afwerki’s government has refused to account for the whereabouts, legal status, or health of the jailed journalists, or even confirm reports that as many as five have died in custody due to inhumane treatment. CPJ continues to list the journalists said to have died as it seeks to verify those reports. Over all, the Eritrean detainees include nine independent journalists jailed in a large-scale 2001-2 crackdown and 19 state media journalists who violated the government’s rigid controls. “If you write anything contrary to what the state says, you end up in prison,” said Bealfan Tesfay, who worked as a reporter and editor for a number of Eritrean state media outlets before fleeing the country. “I left Eritrea one year and three months ago. I walked for three days and three nights. If I was caught, you’d probably never hear from me again. … No one knows anything about the whereabouts of these imprisoned journalists. No one knows anything, whether they are dead or alive. They’ve never been charged. Their families don’t even have any contact with them.”

U.S. journalist Austin Tice is believed to be held in Syrian state custody. (AFP)

Syrian forces loyal to President Bashar al-Assad were holding at least 15 journalists, making the country the fifth-worst jailer. None of the detainees have been charged with a crime, and the authorities have been unwilling to account for the detainees’ whereabouts or well-being. Among those believed to be in custody is Austin Tice, a U.S. freelance reporter who had contributed coverage of the country’s civil war to The Washington Post, McClatchy, Al-Jazeera English, and several other news outlets. “Big brother is never too far away—since the revolution it’s all the more difficult. As the uprising became more militarized, there was a greater risk of getting picked up,” said Rania Abouzeid, a Beirut-based correspondent for Time magazine who has traveled to Syria clandestinely to cover the conflict on several occasions. “The regime will often set up sudden checkpoints, and once you’re there it’s difficult to turn around.”

With 14 journalists behind bars, Vietnam was the sixth-worst jailer of the press. In each of the past several years, Vietnamese authorities have ramped up their crackdown on critical journalists, focusing heavily on those who work online. All but one of the reporters imprisoned in 2012 published blogs or contributed to online news publications. And all but one were held on anti-state charges related to articles on politically sensitive topics such as the country’s relations with China and its treatment of the Catholic community.

Worldwide, 118 journalists whose work appeared primarily online were in jail on December 1, constituting a little more than half of the census. The proportion is consistent with those seen in CPJ’s previous three surveys, which had followed several years of significant increases in the numbers of imprisoned online journalists. Print journalists constituted the second-largest professional group, with 77 jailed worldwide. The other detainees were from radio, television, and documentary filmmaking.

Azerbaijan, the world’s seventh-worst jailer, viciously cracked down on domestic dissent as it hosted two major international events, the Eurovision 2012 song contest and the Internet Governance Forum. The authorities imprisoned at least nine critical journalists on a variety of retaliatory charges, including hooliganism, drug possession, and extortion. CPJ concluded that the charges were fabricated in reprisal for the journalists’ work.
\
Blogger Eskinder Nega is serving an 18-year term in Ethiopia. (Lennart Kjorl)

With six journalists in prison, Ethiopia was the eighth-worst jailer in the world. The authorities broadened the scope of the country’s anti-terror law in 2009, criminalizing the coverage of any group the government deems to be terrorist, a list that includes opposition political parties. Among those jailed is Eskinder Nega, an award-winning blogger whose critical commentary on the government’s extensive use of anti-terror laws led to his own conviction on terrorism charges.

“Basically, they are criminalizing journalism,” said Martin Schibbye, a Swedish freelance journalist who was jailed along with a colleague, Johan Persson, for more than 14 months in Ethiopia. The two were convicted of terrorism charges because they had traveled with a separatist group as part of research for a story. “In our profession, you need to talk to both sides to get the story. They have criminalized talking to one side of the conflict. Just meeting with a member of an organization or communicating with an e-mail” is conflated with terrorism.

Uzbekistan and Saudi Arabia, each of which was holding four journalists, fill out the list of the 10 worst jailers. The detainees in Uzbekistan include Muhammad Bekjanov and Yusuf Ruzimuradov, the two longest-imprisoned journalists on CPJ’s survey. They were jailed in 1999 for publishing a banned newspaper. In Saudi Arabia, newspaper columnist Hamza Kashgari faces a potential death penalty on religious insult charges stemming from Twitter postings that described a fanciful conversation with the Prophet Muhammad.

CPJ confirmed the death of one imprisoned journalist, Iranian blogger Sattar Beheshti. Arrested in October on charges of “acting against national security,” Beheshti was dead within days. Fellow prisoners said Beheshti, 35, was beaten during interrogation, repeatedly threatened with death, and hung from his limbs from the ceiling, according to news reports.

Here are other trends and details that emerged in CPJ’s analysis:

The 29.6 percent worldwide increase over 2011 was the largest percentage jump in a decade and the second consecutive annual increase of more than 20 percent. Imprisonments increased 23.4 percent from 2010 to 2011.
For the first time since 1996, Burma is not among the nations jailing journalists. As part of the country’s historic transition to civilian rule, the authorities released at least 12 imprisoned journalists in a series of pardons over the past year.
The number of journalists held on anti-state charges, 132, is the highest CPJ has recorded, although its proportion of the overall tally, about 57 percent, is consistent with surveys in recent years.
The use of retaliatory charges was the next most common tactic among cases in which charges were publicly disclosed. Nineteen journalists faced such charges worldwide.
Seven journalists were being held on charges of engaging in ethnic or religious “insult,” and six others were jailed on criminal defamation allegations. Violations of censorship statutes were cited in three cases, while charges of disseminating “false news” were lodged in two instances.
As part of an extensive yearlong review of imprisonments in Turkey, CPJ conducted an August 1 survey of detainees. CPJ found 61 journalists imprisoned in direct relation to their work at the time, with 15 more being held in less clear circumstances. Since CPJ’s August survey, Turkish authorities have freed a number of journalists who had been held pending trial or verdict.
Cuba, after a one-year absence from the census, rejoined the nations imprisoning journalists. Security agents arrested Calixto Ramón Martínez Arias, a reporter for the independent news agency Centro de Información Hablemos Press, in September on insult charges. When he was arrested, Martínez Arias was investigating reports that an international shipment of medicine and medical equipment had been damaged.
The imprisonment in Cuba was the only case documented by CPJ in the Americas, where jailings have become increasingly rare. No cases were recorded in the region in CPJ’s 2011 census.
The overwhelming majority of the detainees are local journalists being held by their own governments. Three foreign journalists were imprisoned worldwide, CPJ’s survey found.
Online and print media journalists constituted the two largest professional groups on CPJ’s census. Among other media, 24 television journalists, 12 radio reporters, and one documentary filmmaker were being held.
Eighty-five freelance journalists were in jail worldwide on December 1, constituting about 37 percent of the census. The proportion of freelance journalists, which had trended upward in recent years, dropped for the first time since 2006.
Along with Dhondup Wangchen, being held in China, three other winners of CPJ International Press Freedom Awards were being held worldwide. They are Azimjon Askarov in Kyrgyzstan, Shi Tao in China, and Mohammad Davari in Iran.


Tibetan filmmaker Dhondup Wangchen is serving time in a Chinese prison. (Filming for Tibet)

CPJ believes that journalists should not be imprisoned for doing their jobs. The organization has sent letters expressing its serious concerns to each country that has imprisoned a journalist. In the past year, CPJ advocacy led to the early release of at least 58 imprisoned journalists worldwide.

CPJ’s list is a snapshot of those incarcerated at 12:01 a.m. on December 1, 2012. It does not include the many journalists imprisoned and released throughout the year; accounts of those cases can be found at http://www.cpj.org. Journalists remain on CPJ’s list until the organization determines with reasonable certainty that they have been released or have died in custody.

Journalists who either disappear or are abducted by nonstate entities such as criminal gangs or militant groups are not included on the prison census. Their cases are classified as “missing” or “abducted.”

http://cpj.org/reports/2012/12/imprison ... record.php

[Ibrahim]

Wow Anti-Americanism rampant worldwide and....

Number of jailed journalists sets global record

http://cpj.org/reports/2012/12/imprison ... record.php

China, Russia, and Turkey jail journalists, though the US jails more people overall and as a proportion of population. Fine company in any case.


And again, the point was that anti-Americanism is grows when the US is killing people, and grows most where it is killing them.

[Enki]

America has journalists arrested constantly in order to disrupt their reporting. Hundreds every year. You just don't hear about it because they don't get convicted.

[Doc]

Wow Anti-Americanism rampant worldwide and....

Number of jailed journalists sets global record

http://cpj.org/reports/2012/12/imprison ... record.php

China, Russia, and Turkey jail journalists, though the US jails more people overall and as a proportion of population. Fine company in any case.


And again, the point was that anti-Americanism is grows when the US is killing people, and grows most where it is killing them.

Yet the same folks that are complaining about the US are the same folks throwing Journalists in jail. And trying very hard to end free speech on the internet and in general get rid of human rights. Now why is that Ibrahim? DI yiu feek there are too many human rights and too much free speech on the internet?

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57558 ... ntroversy/

U.N. summit derailed over human rights controversy

Telecoms summit grinds to halt after China and Algeria object to human rights language, an interruption that follows a vote to give a U.N. agency a more "active" role in shaping the Internet.
Declan McCullagh
by Declan McCullagh
December 13, 2012 1:45 AM PST
China's delegation, shown here at the Dubai summit that ends Friday, cited the "security of the state" when objecting to human rights language.

China's delegation, shown here at the Dubai summit that ends Friday, cited the "security of the state" when objecting to human rights language.
(Credit: ITU)

A United Nations summit suddenly ran aground today after China, Algeria, and Iran objected to a U.S.-backed proposal that would include a mention of "human rights obligations" in a proposed telecommunications treaty.

Algeria's delegate warned at the U.N. summit in Dubai that there were many other nations -- calling them "silent member states" -- that also opposed the human rights language and forced a temporary adjournment of the proceedings.

China criticized the human rights language as well, saying "we also have a very serious question about the necessity of the existence of this text." The "security of the state" is another concern that's equally valid, China's delegate said.

Today's interlude highlighted the deep divisions between the U.S. and its allies and an opposing coalition including China, a rift that led to a vote yesterday to give the International Telecommunication Union a more "active" role in shaping the future of the Internet. The U.S., Sweden, and Finland had opposed that language but lost the vote.

The human rights language is straightforward. One recent version of the document (PDF) says that nations will "implement these regulations in a manner that respects and upholds their Human Rights Obligations."

But Algeria's delegate replied by saying that the language does not have a "rightful place" in the ITU's proposed International Telecommunications Regulations that would become binding on member states. Malaysia's delegate worried that the capitalization of Human Rights Obligations would prove problematic, warning that "the international court system can always find [a way] to alter the variances of these meanings. And especially when you put the H in capital, the R in capital, and the O in capital."

It's no accident that the nations that have been the most vocal in opposition to the human rights language also enjoy some of the most checkered human rights records.

China has been dubbed a "predator" on press freedom. It blocks thousands of Web sites and extensively monitors its citizens' Internet activities. Algeria has censored Web sites critical of the government, monitored Internet chat rooms, and indefinitely banned public demonstrations.

"We think this provision is a very important matter," Sweden's delegate said, referring to the human rights language. "And we support the amendments proposed by the United States. We are not here to develop new human rights language, but to reaffirm previous commitments, while implementing these technical [regulations]."

Algeria's request to adjourn the summit, called the World Conference on International Telecommunications, or WCIT, was backed by Iran's delegate, who said that its government has "full respect for observance of the human rights and declaration on human rights." Nevertheless, Iran said, the language referring to "upholding" human rights commitments is unacceptable: "never -- never can we have such a word in any text [of the regulations]."

U.N. and ITU meetings often result, of course, in more rhetoric than substance. During a U.N. conference in Tunisia in 2005, for instance, Iran and African governments proclaimed that the Internet permits too much free speech, with Cuba's delegate announcing that Fidel Castro believes it's time to create a new organization "which administers this network of networks."

The difference this time is that the ITU summit, which ends Friday, is designed to rewrite the International Telecommunications Regulations (PDF), a multilateral treaty that governs international communications traffic. The treaty was established in 1988, when home computers used dial-up modems, the Internet was primarily a university network, and Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg was a mere four years old.

In a sharply partisan U.S. election year, skepticism about the U.N. process has emerged as a rare point of bipartisan accord: the House of Representatives unanimously approved a resolution last week aimed at sending a strong message to the ITU. It said, in part, that "the consistent and unequivocal policy of the United States [is] to promote a global Internet free from government control."

Google has organized a campaign to draw attention to the summit, saying some governments "are trying to use a closed-door meeting in December to regulate the Internet." Advocacy groups Fight for the Future and AccessNow have launched WhatIsTheITU.org to warn that the ITU poses "a risk to freedom of expression" online. And Tim Berners-Lee, the father of the World Wide Web, has warned about an ITU power grab.

A ITU document, called DT/51-E (PDF), leaked this week shows that the U.N. agency wants to become more involved in "Internet-related technical, development and public policy issues" -- a broad term designed to sweep in hot-button areas including cybersecurity, spam, surveillance, and censorship.

[Ibrahim]

Wow Anti-Americanism rampant worldwide and....

Number of jailed journalists sets global record

http://cpj.org/reports/2012/12/imprison ... record.php

China, Russia, and Turkey jail journalists, though the US jails more people overall and as a proportion of population. Fine company in any case.


And again, the point was that anti-Americanism is grows when the US is killing people, and grows most where it is killing them.

Yet the same folks that are complaining about the US are the same folks throwing Journalists in jail. And trying very hard to end free speech on the internet and in general get rid of human rights.

What a bunch of hypocrites. You should invade their countries and murder/torture them until they knock it off.

DI you feel there are too many human rights and too much free speech on the internet?

Given that the forum administrator told me that the majority of the members here want me banned, I'm going to go ahead and say that there isn't enough free speech on the Internet.

But this is my fault for violating the most sacred religion in America: militarism.

[Mr. Perfect]

I wonder how anti-Americanism is going in Libya. Wait.

[Mr. Perfect]

America has journalists arrested constantly in order to disrupt their reporting. Hundreds every year. You just don't hear about it because they don't get convicted.

Well, elect a Democrat, don't complain about the results.

[monster_gardener]

Alexis: Pretty much all of Asia has a low opinion of the US.

Look up the source I was referring to, and select by "Region & Countries", checking those countries within "Asia / Pacific"

Not all have been polled. However:
- Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, Uzbekistan, Philippines have very good opinions about USA
- Indonesia, China, India, Bangladesh, Australia have what one could call balanced opinions: between 40% and 60% positive
- Only Malaysia and even more Pakistan have very low opinions about USA

Fact is that pretty much all of Asia have a balanced to very good opinion about USA.

Last I checked the vast majority of Muslim countries are in Asia.

Yes. But what you said was "Pretty much all of Asia has a low opinion of the US".
Which is not true, like the opinion polls I linked to demonstrate.

Note that less than 20% of Asians are Muslims...

Russia, India and China have mixed feelings on the US, so that's a lot of geographically Asian people right there. The original article I linked talks about South Korea. Japan will vary largely depending on how close you are to a US base. E.g. I'm sure people in Hokkaido like Americans a lot more than Okinawans.

Again, the point isn't that everybody on Earth hates America, its that anti-Americanism is linked to US military violence, and that this is a legitimate gripe.

Thank you very much for your post, Ibrahim.

Russia, India and China have mixed feelings on the US

Russia, India and China have VERY mixed feelings on Muslims and the culture of Islam.......

Again, the point isn't that everybody on Earth hates America, its that anti-Americanism is linked to US military violence, and that this is a legitimate gripe.

Again, a point isn't that everybody on Earth hates Muslims*, its that anti-Islamic feeling is linked to Muslim violence, and that this is a VERY legitimate gripe.

*Not yet though it theoretically might be possible as Muslims often hate each other almost as much & sometimes more than they hate infidels

[monster_gardener]

Oh, and the point of the article is that people around the world don't like the US because the US military kills them. But that's just like racism, right?

Racism is essentially about behavior. Or more specifically, it is about attributing behavior to an arbitrary group. That group can be ethnic, cultural, religious, sexual, tribal etc.

-Ibrahim (Apr 13, 2012)

Except the point isn't that all Americans are this that or the other. Its that people in other countries say they dislike America due to the ongoing actions of the US military. I guess if you don't like American soldiers raping/murdering your neighbors you are some kind of racist.

Ibrahim,

If Psy were to vent his outrage over the small minority of Muslims who engage in violent jihad by singing the following:

"Hey Muslim":

"Kill those f---ing Muslims who murder in the name of jihad
Kill those f---ing Muslims who ordered them to murder
Kill their daughters, mothers, daughters-in-law and fathers
Kill them all slowly and painfully"

...would you defend or condemn this utterance? Would you consider it "racist"?

So what are the consequences of Psy's former lyrics?

Rather than having a death sentence fatwa declared on his head, he's invited to sing for the current US President.

That is real power

Agreed. Mere US Presidents come and go, a star of Psy's caliber is clearly more powerful.



As for Huxley's comments about Psy's lyrics, I would disagree with any violence against civilians in any case (though I'm sure not all rap lyrics should be taken %100 seriously). As for calling for violence against soldiers, I don't care. That's what soldiers are for. As for your "smart take" of replacing US soldiers with members of an entire religion, I've explained previously why this is an inaccurate comparison. Soldiers are selected and trained to think/act the same and be loyal to a centralized hierarchy.

Thank you Very Much for your post, Ibrahim.

Refutation of this post available at:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1498&p=41081#p41081

[Enki]

But this is my fault for violating the most sacred religion in America: militarism.

Those people would be so much more boring with you gone.

[Doc]

Wow Anti-Americanism rampant worldwide and....

Number of jailed journalists sets global record

http://cpj.org/reports/2012/12/imprison ... record.php

China, Russia, and Turkey jail journalists, though the US jails more people overall and as a proportion of population. Fine company in any case.


And again, the point was that anti-Americanism is grows when the US is killing people, and grows most where it is killing them.

Yet the same folks that are complaining about the US are the same folks throwing Journalists in jail. And trying very hard to end free speech on the internet and in general get rid of human rights.

What a bunch of hypocrites. You should invade their countries and murder/torture them until they knock it off.

Don't have to they now that lerned out how to self invade. For better or worse they are on their own despite how much you wish that were not so.

DI you feel there are too many human rights and too much free speech on the internet?

Given that the forum administrator told me that the majority of the members here want me banned, I'm going to go ahead and say that there isn't enough free speech on the Internet. [/qote]

I don't want you banned and I would hope that others would come to appreciate your presence. After all you make a most excellent straw man.

But this is my fault for violating the most sacred religion in America: militarism.

Indeed Indeed We are not a Islamic state here just yet. Perhaps if you wore a burka while posting here that would help

[Zack Morris]

You've demonstrated the silliness of the complaints against America. Virtually all nations are guilty of at least some of the things I listed and all world powers that count are (with the possible exception of some that have willingly and cheerfully outsourced their dirty work to the US military, such as the EU member states).

Name another major power with any many foreign wars currently underway as the US.

First, there is no other power comparable to the US. Not all that long ago, Britain was the dominant power, and they engaged in arguably worse behavior. When the Soviet Union existed, it was just as involved in meddling in foreign affairs, arming insurgents, and fighting proxy wars. Since then, the size and scale of these activities has decreased dramatically.

Second, the issue of meddling in foreign affairs -- exerting economic pressure, backing dictators, arming thugs -- is a favorite excuse of anti-Americans, even as the Chinese, the Russians, and even the French all continue to do so.

Anyway you're falling back on what I'd call the post-Abu-Ghraib American morality. No more idealism, not even a basic moral code. Just "as long as somebody else is doing it, you can't complain about us doing it. Of course most countries doing things like this do it to their own people, Americans are the ones who will show up and start killing/torturing you where you live, for reasons that are quite possibly entirely fictitious.

This is a red herring. We are discussing facts here, not morality.

Dunno. A distaste for murder and torture perhaps?

If it were about that, the Chinese, the Russians, and any of a number of middle eastern regimes would more frequently be the subject of protest songs. The most flagrant abuses of human rights occur in Africa, the middle east, and parts of Asia. Nobody seems to care.

Anyway the point of the article is that anti-American sentiment is strongest where the US is involved militarily.

Now you are subtly changing your argument. Military involvement does not imply violence. The US is not dropping bombs on Koreans, for example. The opposition to US troops stationed there isn't really about the occasional rape or traffic accident, it's about loony theories that the US is the sole obstacle preventing the North Koreans from showering Seoul with kimjongilias and reuniting peacefully. And that theory itself stems from the insecurity Koreans feel about US power.

[Ibrahim]

You've demonstrated the silliness of the complaints against America. Virtually all nations are guilty of at least some of the things I listed and all world powers that count are (with the possible exception of some that have willingly and cheerfully outsourced their dirty work to the US military, such as the EU member states).

Name another major power with any many foreign wars currently underway as the US.

First, there is no other power comparable to the US. Not all that long ago, Britain was the dominant power, and they engaged in arguably worse behavior. When the Soviet Union existed, it was just as involved in meddling in foreign affairs, arming insurgents, and fighting proxy wars. Since then, the size and scale of these activities has decreased dramatically.

Second, the issue of meddling in foreign affairs -- exerting economic pressure, backing dictators, arming thugs -- is a favorite excuse of anti-Americans, even as the Chinese, the Russians, and even the French all continue to do so.

...even though America is the most powerful and influential. You seem to want to assert that the US has the most power and the least responsibility.

Anyway you're falling back on what I'd call the post-Abu-Ghraib American morality. No more idealism, not even a basic moral code. Just "as long as somebody else is doing it, you can't complain about us doing it. Of course most countries doing things like this do it to their own people, Americans are the ones who will show up and start killing/torturing you where you live, for reasons that are quite possibly entirely fictitious.

This is a red herring. We are discussing facts here, not morality.

Dunno. A distaste for murder and torture perhaps?

I'm discussing morality. Anyway the facts aren't in dispute. America murders and tortures with impunity.

If it were about that, the Chinese, the Russians, and any of a number of middle eastern regimes would more frequently be the subject of protest songs. The most flagrant abuses of human rights occur in Africa, the middle east, and parts of Asia. Nobody seems to care.

Anyway the point of the article is that anti-American sentiment is strongest where the US is involved militarily.

Now you are subtly changing your argument. Military involvement does not imply violence.

Clearly it does.

The US is not dropping bombs on Koreans, for example.

Not lately. Lately its just be the occasional accidental death, individual murder (i.e. off duty killing), or sexual assaults.

The opposition to US troops stationed there isn't really about the occasional rape or traffic accident,

Sure it is. Did you read the article?

And that theory itself stems from the insecurity Koreans feel about US power.

This is, to me, the saddest defense of the US yet mounted on this forum.