Anti-Americanism worldwide

[Ibrahim]

Most people have not been bombed by Americans and aren't even from a country in which America has any significant military involvement. And yet, many of these people dislike Americans. Why?

Most people think Charles Manson is a bad guy. Why? He didn't murder them. He didn't murder their family members or anybody they knew. Probably just jealous of his fame.

[monster_gardener]

Burn some kids with a Hellfire. "Well, war will always lead to civilian casualties. *puffs pipe*"

Burn a US flag. "THOSE SICK F_CKING TERRORISTS! *tips over Rascal rushing to computer to vent rage*"

Thank you for your post, Ibrahim

Notice that this photo that HoosierNorm posted with the flag burning one was edited out of your reply........




Wondering Why that happened...

Not really..........

But maybe Because this Bearded Buffoon* Seems be an Excellent Example of a "SICK F_CKING TERRORIST"


Just in case there was a problem understanding the Jihadi Jerk's misspelled placard........

"DEATH TO ALL JUICE"

should have be written:

"DEATH to ALL JEWS"

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/jer ... e-1.182536

*Just Because he is a Buffoon doesn't mean he isn't dangerous ....... Lot's of Killer Klowns out there

[Typhoon]

Oh, and the point of the article is that people around the world don't like the US because the US military kills them. But that's just like racism, right?

People the world over, including inside the United States, are legitimately upset about America's never ending and disastrous military adventures but this is not why people hate us. Koreans, for example, benefit tremendously from US military protection and are not being killed by Americans, and that is but one example that deflates this theory. Japanese or Korean rage at US service personnel causing traffic accidents or committing crimes is perfectly understandable but the intensity of the feelings is fueled by a resentment of American power and the innately human tendency to dislike 'outsiders'. In terms of cost to society, there is no difference between a fatal car accident caused by a Korean soldier and a US soldier. But the events are viewed very differently through the lens of tribalism, which arguably occupies the same part of the human psyche as racism.

From my conversations with people from places as distant as Brazil, Iran, and China, people hate the United States because they are jealous of our status and power.

Bingo.

Anti Americanism is nothing new in the post war era.

The author may have as well written about discovering that water is wet, the sky blue, and the grass green.

Some historical context: such anti-US feelings ran very high during the Vietnam War, both outside and even inside the US.

At least the Vietnam War had an internal, if flawed, logic to it: the containment of communism during the Cold War.

Of course, many Vietnamese had a different perspective: the continuation of [formerly French] colonialism.

Another example is the [Soviet sponsored] anti neutron nuclear bomb protests in Europe.

On the other hand, there was no logic to the invasion of Iraq and the continued occupation of Afghanistan is questionable to say the least.

[Typhoon]

Most people have not been bombed by Americans and aren't even from a country in which America has any significant military involvement. And yet, many of these people dislike Americans. Why?

Most people think Charles Manson is a bad guy. Why? He didn't murder them. He didn't murder their family members or anybody they knew. Probably just jealous of his fame.

Too silly an analogy to even bother with a comment.

[Hoosiernorm]

People are pissed off that we are using our status and power to be bullies.

I call bullshit. Those pissed off people know what real bullying actually looks like and should know better than to use this line of defense. Ask yourself what some racist prick from Sao Paulo living the high life in New York city has suffered from American 'bullying'.

US trade disputes with Brazil has been a source of mutual animosity, to the extent that Brazilian customs set up a separate line for American passports for a while, just to screw with them.

Anyway the point of the article is that people hate the US in places where US troops are killing/raping them, and that people elsewhere are disgusted by these actions when they read about them. So I don't see why a Brazilian couldn't be disgusted with the US murder and torture they see on TV every day, just like anybody else with news and internet access.

Ah heck we'll be able to get drone technology to the place that it's just hardware we train the locals to use against themselves, then it will be smooth sailing after that. It won't be anything special just different operators. No one complains about the technology after it's been around for awhile and the only thing people give less a lavender about is governments that people don't know anything about conducting their own internal terrorist policy. They should have turned keyed this over to private military contractors a long time ago. Flying drones with corporate logos on them instead of flags is probably the best thing a country can do if they want to eradicate political enemies. Having Uncle Sam murder political dissidents is really unpopular but hopefully we can hand that technology over to the locals soon.

[monster_gardener]

People are pissed off that we are using our status and power to be bullies.

I call bullshit. Those pissed off people know what real bullying actually looks like and should know better than to use this line of defense. Ask yourself what some racist prick from Sao Paulo living the high life in New York city has suffered from American 'bullying'.

US trade disputes with Brazil has been a source of mutual animosity, to the extent that Brazilian customs set up a separate line for American passports for a while, just to screw with them.

Anyway the point of the article is that people hate the US in places where US troops are killing/raping them, and that people elsewhere are disgusted by these actions when they read about them. So I don't see why a Brazilian couldn't be disgusted with the US murder and torture they see on TV every day, just like anybody else with news and internet access.

Ah heck we'll be able to get drone technology to the place that it's just hardware we train the locals to use against themselves, then it will be smooth sailing after that. It won't be anything special just different operators. No one complains about the technology after it's been around for awhile and the only thing people give less a lavender about is governments that people don't know anything about conducting their own internal terrorist policy. They should have turned keyed this over to private military contractors a long time ago. Flying drones with corporate logos on them instead of flags is probably the best thing a country can do if they want to eradicate political enemies. Having Uncle Sam murder political dissidents is really unpopular but hopefully we can hand that technology over to the locals soon.

Thank you Very Much for your post, HoosierNorm........

Interesting Idea.......

Letters of Marque & Reprisal.........

Privateers.......

Bounty Hunters.... To Dog the Jihadi Jerks..........

Article 1 of the United States Constitution lists issuing letters of marque and reprisal in Section 8 as one of the enumerated powers of Congress, alongside the power to tax and to "declare War." However, since the American Civil War, the United States as a matter of policy has consistently followed the terms of the 1856 Paris Declaration forbidding the practice. The United States has not legally commissioned any privateers since 1815, although the status of submarine-hunting Goodyear airships in the early days of World War II created significant confusion. Various accounts refer to airships Resolute and Volunteer as operating under a "privateer status", but Congress never authorized a commission, nor did the President sign one.[29]

The issue of marque and reprisal was raised before Congress after the September 11 attacks[30] and again on July 21, 2007, by Congressman Ron Paul. The attacks were defined as acts of "air piracy" and the Marque and Reprisal Act of 2001 was introduced, which would have granted the president the authority to use letters of marque and reprisal against the specific terrorists, instead of warring against a foreign state. The terrorists were compared to pirates in that they are difficult to fight by traditional military means.[31] Congressman Paul on April 15, 2009, also advocated the use of letters of marque to address the issue of Somali pirates operating in the Gulf of Aden. However, the bills Congressman Paul introduced were not enacted into law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_of_ ... _of_Marque

[Zack Morris]

US trade disputes with Brazil has been a source of mutual animosity, to the extent that Brazilian customs set up a separate line for American passports for a while, just to screw with them.

Mutual? You'd be hard pressed to find an American who cares, let alone an American who has bad things to say about Brazil.

Anyway the point of the article is that people hate the US in places where US troops are killing/raping them, and that people elsewhere are disgusted by these actions when they read about them. So I don't see why a Brazilian couldn't be disgusted with the US murder and torture they see on TV every day, just like anybody else with news and internet access.

This doesn't pass muster. There are (and have been) many countries who kill or repress lots of people, making the US look benign by comparison. Nobody really cares about these places for some reason. Ask an anti-American why and they will respond that somehow America's economic advantages are inherently more evil than killing a bunch of people.

[Zack Morris]

Most people have not been bombed by Americans and aren't even from a country in which America has any significant military involvement. And yet, many of these people dislike Americans. Why?

Most people think Charles Manson is a bad guy. Why? He didn't murder them. He didn't murder their family members or anybody they knew. Probably just jealous of his fame.

Flawed analogy. Do people hate Americans because Charles Manson was an American?

Given two countries America and X, where X is controlled by an oppressive authoritarian regime that murders its own people, sends them into gulags, exports terror, bulldozes their houses, or what have you, it's likely that people will still hate America more. They're just jealous. Haters gotta hate.

[Ibrahim]

Oh, and the point of the article is that people around the world don't like the US because the US military kills them. But that's just like racism, right?

People the world over, including inside the United States, are legitimately upset about America's never ending and disastrous military adventures but this is not why people hate us. Koreans, for example, benefit tremendously from US military protection and are not being killed by Americans, and that is but one example that deflates this theory. Japanese or Korean rage at US service personnel causing traffic accidents or committing crimes is perfectly understandable but the intensity of the feelings is fueled by a resentment of American power and the innately human tendency to dislike 'outsiders'. In terms of cost to society, there is no difference between a fatal car accident caused by a Korean soldier and a US soldier. But the events are viewed very differently through the lens of tribalism, which arguably occupies the same part of the human psyche as racism.

From my conversations with people from places as distant as Brazil, Iran, and China, people hate the United States because they are jealous of our status and power.

Bingo.

Anti Americanism is nothing new in the post war era.

The torture is new, the interminable wars across several nations at once for vague motives are new. Anti-American sentiment is at historic highs as a result.

The author may have as well written about discovering that water is wet, the sky blue, and the grass green.

Some historical context: such anti-US feelings ran very high during the Vietnam War, both outside and even inside the US.

So you agree with the premise, in fact you think its so boringly obvious that there is no point saying it, but also think that its just jealousy?

[Ibrahim]

Most people have not been bombed by Americans and aren't even from a country in which America has any significant military involvement. And yet, many of these people dislike Americans. Why?

Most people think Charles Manson is a bad guy. Why? He didn't murder them. He didn't murder their family members or anybody they knew. Probably just jealous of his fame.

Flawed analogy. Do people hate Americans because Charles Manson was an American?

So you don't think its reasonable to dislike America because its not America that kills people, its American soldiers?

Given two countries America and X, where X is controlled by an oppressive authoritarian regime

Do people love other violent authoritarian regimes?

Anyway I want to go through the examples:

that murders its own people,

America does that.

sends them into gulags,

America does this more than any nation in history.

exports terror

America does that.

bulldozes their houses

I'm not up on eminent domain cases in the US.

, or what have you,

I'll read this one as "torture." America does that.

it's likely that people will still hate America more. They're just jealous. Haters gotta hate.

"Its likely that" Americans are the ones dropping bombs and missiles on their country, not North Korea. Anyway I'm sure Assad polls worse that the US among Syrians these days, but in most countries Americans are the ones all over the globe committing industrialized murder, and you think people are really just jealous because they don't get to live the lavish American lifestyle of working at Target in suburban Michigan? Sure, you keep telling yourself that.

[Juggernaut Nihilism]

It is indisputable that the primary reason so many people hate America is because we are all up in everyone's lavender all the time.

[Mr. Perfect]

*chugs popcorn*

[Mr. Perfect]

17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.

18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

[Zack Morris]

So you don't think its reasonable to dislike America because its not America that kills people, its American soldiers?

I think it's unreasonable to call for killing Americans because American soldiers have fought a war somewhere you don't even really care about. Don't you?

Do people love other violent authoritarian regimes?

Some people -- even some prominent American intellectuals --love the Chinese and their government system. I think the Soviet Union had its admirers as well.

Anyway I want to go through the examples:

You've demonstrated the silliness of the complaints against America. Virtually all nations are guilty of at least some of the things I listed and all world powers that count are (with the possible exception of some that have willingly and cheerfully outsourced their dirty work to the US military, such as the EU member states).

So again, for someone who does not live in a country on which the US drops bombs (e.g. the vast majority of the world), what could possibly provoke such intense emotions? Is the US behaving worse than would be expected of a global hegemon? Is the occasional pro-Israel vote in the UN any worse than the spiteful shenanigans of the Russians, Chinese, Sudanese, etc.?

Some of the most vociferous critics of the US are pretty shitty, corrupt, unjust, and inequitable places, and that's very telling to me. Others are fortunate enough to be able to conduct their own affairs assured of US protection.

If the US weren't "all up in their business", someone else would, and does anyone think the situation would be better?

"Its likely that" Americans are the ones dropping bombs and missiles on their country, not North Korea. Anyway I'm sure Assad polls worse that the US among Syrians these days, but in most countries Americans are the ones all over the globe committing industrialized murder

'Industrialized murder' is simply a false accusation and you know it. Wars are becoming less lethal, not more so. Lives appear to be valued higher than ever before in the calculus of war and geopolitics, and that's a very good thing, but it also makes it easy to forget the sheer scale of past imperialist aggression.

Warfare in the 21st century has literally been reduced to toy planes carrying single-missile payloads. The legal and human rights ramifications are still frightening but total war this is not.

and you think people are really just jealous because they don't get to live the lavish American lifestyle of working at Target in suburban Michigan? Sure, you keep telling yourself that.

Often times, the most vocal critics of the United States are affluent yuppies who relish the opportunity to come join the global 1% in Silicon Valley or New York but are having a hard time finding sponsorship.

[Huxley]

Oh, and the point of the article is that people around the world don't like the US because the US military kills them. But that's just like racism, right?

Racism is essentially about behavior. Or more specifically, it is about attributing behavior to an arbitrary group. That group can be ethnic, cultural, religious, sexual, tribal etc.

-Ibrahim (Apr 13, 2012)

Except the point isn't that all Americans are this that or the other. Its that people in other countries say they dislike America due to the ongoing actions of the US military. I guess if you don't like American soldiers raping/murdering your neighbors you are some kind of racist.

Ibrahim,

If Psy were to vent his outrage over the small minority of Muslims who engage in violent jihad by singing the following:

"Hey Muslim":

"Kill those f---ing Muslims who murder in the name of jihad
Kill those f---ing Muslims who ordered them to murder
Kill their daughters, mothers, daughters-in-law and fathers
Kill them all slowly and painfully"

...would you defend or condemn this utterance? Would you consider it "racist"?

[Simple Minded]

Often times, the most vocal critics of the United States are affluent yuppies who relish the opportunity to come join the global 1% in Silicon Valley or New York but are having a hard time finding sponsorship.

Isn't CA used as an abbreviation for both California and Canada?

Maybe Ibrahim just got on the wrong plane one day and he's still pissed off about it.........

[Typhoon]

Oh, and the point of the article is that people around the world don't like the US because the US military kills them. But that's just like racism, right?

Racism is essentially about behavior. Or more specifically, it is about attributing behavior to an arbitrary group. That group can be ethnic, cultural, religious, sexual, tribal etc.

-Ibrahim (Apr 13, 2012)

Except the point isn't that all Americans are this that or the other. Its that people in other countries say they dislike America due to the ongoing actions of the US military. I guess if you don't like American soldiers raping/murdering your neighbors you are some kind of racist.

Ibrahim,

If Psy were to vent his outrage over the small minority of Muslims who engage in violent jihad by singing the following:

"Hey Muslim":

"Kill those f---ing Muslims who murder in the name of jihad
Kill those f---ing Muslims who ordered them to murder
Kill their daughters, mothers, daughters-in-law and fathers
Kill them all slowly and painfully"

...would you defend or condemn this utterance? Would you consider it "racist"?

So what are the consequences of Psy's former lyrics?

Rather than having a death sentence fatwa declared on his head, he's invited to sing for the current US President.

That is real power: when one need not bother to give a sh*t about one's former and current critics and one treats them instead with benevolent and amused indulgence.
In other words, as court jesters.

On the other hand, losing it over every minor slight, real or more typically imagined, is a certain sign of weakness and insecurity.

[Simple Minded]

On the other hand, losing it over every minor slight, real or more typically imagined, is a certain sign of weakness and insecurity.

OH..... YEAH.....

Are you postulating that hyper-sensitivity on the part of some Canadians may not be due to their mothers not breast feeding them as infants...?

That would blow my theory all to hell......

Did you hear about the one foot tsunami that will strike in the next 100 years.....

[Hoosiernorm]

I gotta ask since no one else has

Who is number 2?

I mean we 'Merikans are use to being #1 at everything but was it a close race this year?

Is there a top 10 list or are we the sole owners of world hatred?

Just curious

[Alexis]

Not to be contrarian or anything but... is there anti-Americanism to speak of?

Here are 2012 indicators as to the opinions held about the USA in various countries
Not all the World's countries have been polled, of course.

However, donning my cynical cap, I will argue that opinions about the USA matter in relation to the power of the country whose population is holding such opinions... Taking share of World's GDP as proxy for a country's power (not perfect, but not too bad), and excluding opinions of Americans themselves, we have:
- China and Japan, with 43% and 72% positive opinions respectively
- Germany, France, Italy, Brazil, Britain, with 52%, 69%, 74%, 61%, 60% positive opinions
- Russia, India, Spain, with 52%, 41%, 58% positive opinions

That's not a ideal situation for international image of USA... but it's a quite good one!

Among the population of those 10 most powerful countries (US excluded):
- 8 have >50% positive opinions about the USA
- including 3 in the vicinity of 70% (Japan, France, Italy)
- the 2 others have >40% positive opinions about the USA

Where is this anti-Americanism, already?

The only result of that poll which should be a tad worrying from a US point of view is that those 2 powerful countries where positive opinions are only >40% happen to be China and India, emergent very powerful countries. That looks like a half-full / half-empty glass: could be worse since we're speaking of future / actual competitors with the US for the title of "Biggest Gorilla", so it would be natural to expect some friction in both directions. At the same time, could definitly be better.

By the way, when the population of a given country, say India, has only 41% positive opinions about US, further to the twin explanations of "It's those darn Yankis and their crimes" vs "It's those pesky Foreigners and their jealousy"...
Hey, what if it was mostly misunderstanding?

[Enki]

Alexis: Pretty much all of Asia has a low opinion of the US.

[Alexis]

Alexis: Pretty much all of Asia has a low opinion of the US.

Look up the source I was referring to, and select by "Region & Countries", checking those countries within "Asia / Pacific"

Not all have been polled. However:
- Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, Uzbekistan, Philippines have very good opinions about USA
- Indonesia, China, India, Bangladesh, Australia have what one could call balanced opinions: between 40% and 60% positive
- Only Malaysia and even more Pakistan have very low opinions about USA

Fact is that pretty much all of Asia have a balanced to very good opinion about USA.

[monster_gardener]

Oh, and the point of the article is that people around the world don't like the US because the US military kills them. But that's just like racism, right?

Racism is essentially about behavior. Or more specifically, it is about attributing behavior to an arbitrary group. That group can be ethnic, cultural, religious, sexual, tribal etc.

-Ibrahim (Apr 13, 2012)

Except the point isn't that all Americans are this that or the other. Its that people in other countries say they dislike America due to the ongoing actions of the US military. I guess if you don't like American soldiers raping/murdering your neighbors you are some kind of racist.

Ibrahim,

If Psy were to vent his outrage over the small minority of Muslims who engage in violent jihad by singing the following:

"Hey Muslim":

"Kill those f---ing Muslims who murder in the name of jihad
Kill those f---ing Muslims who ordered them to murder
Kill their daughters, mothers, daughters-in-law and fathers
Kill them all slowly and painfully"

...would you defend or condemn this utterance? Would you consider it "racist"?

So what are the consequences of Psy's former lyrics?

Rather than having a death sentence fatwa declared on his head, he's invited to sing for the current US President.

That is real power: when one need not bother to give a sh*t about one's former and current critics and one treats them instead with benevolent and amused indulgence.
In other words, as court jesters.

On the other hand, losing it over every minor slight, real or more typically imagined, is a certain sign of weakness and insecurity.

Thank You VERY Much for your post, Typhoon.

On the other hand, losing it over every minor slight, real or more typically imagined, is a certain sign of weakness and insecurity

I don't doubt that you are often right about this......

Could be weakness, worry and insecurity.......

But IMVHO it may also perhaps be a sign of Malevolence & Sadism either overt or crypto .......

Particularly if the Perp thinks he/she is the Best of People and is really doing it for the cause of what he/she considers to be good as a duty to Whatever.... G_d, Allah, History , the Race, the Nation, the Cause.......*

*Or the Concern.........
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transition_%28novel%29

[Enki]

Alexis: Pretty much all of Asia has a low opinion of the US.

Look up the source I was referring to, and select by "Region & Countries", checking those countries within "Asia / Pacific"

Not all have been polled. However:
- Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, Uzbekistan, Philippines have very good opinions about USA
- Indonesia, China, India, Bangladesh, Australia have what one could call balanced opinions: between 40% and 60% positive
- Only Malaysia and even more Pakistan have very low opinions about USA

Fact is that pretty much all of Asia have a balanced to very good opinion about USA.

Last I checked the vast majority of Muslim countries are in Asia.

[Alexis]

Alexis: Pretty much all of Asia has a low opinion of the US.

Look up the source I was referring to, and select by "Region & Countries", checking those countries within "Asia / Pacific"

Not all have been polled. However:
- Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, Uzbekistan, Philippines have very good opinions about USA
- Indonesia, China, India, Bangladesh, Australia have what one could call balanced opinions: between 40% and 60% positive
- Only Malaysia and even more Pakistan have very low opinions about USA

Fact is that pretty much all of Asia have a balanced to very good opinion about USA.

Last I checked the vast majority of Muslim countries are in Asia.

Yes. But what you said was "Pretty much all of Asia has a low opinion of the US".
Which is not true, like the opinion polls I linked to demonstrate.

Note that less than 20% of Asians are Muslims...