Germany

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Parodite
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Re: Germany

Post by Parodite »

I agree that if another bomb explodes on a market in Iraq, Libya, Syria or in Yemen.. it would be weird if the first thought people have is that it might be a drunk red haired Irish tourist who was just dumped by his girlfriend.
Deep down I'm very superficial
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Alexis
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Re: Germany

Post by Alexis »

Heracleum Persicum wrote:Issue is "prejudice" .. if co pilot name was Mohammad, everybody now would be shouting terrorism ..
An interesting fact: according to a recently published study, among those circa 3,000 French people listed by authorities as "radicalized", that is either having gone to Syria with Jihad objectives, or in danger of doing so, 40% are converts to Muslim religion.

That is, people with names like François or Jacques or Jeanne, nor Mohammed or Rachid or Fatima.

Given that circa 10% of French have some Muslim family background (part of those obviously not being Muslims themselves), it means the risk for a Frenchman with Muslim family background to fall for the Jihadist sect propaganda is 13,5 times as large as the risk for a Frenchman without such background.

Obviously largely superior, but then... by a single order of magnitude. Not several.
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Endovelico
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Re: Germany

Post by Endovelico »

Talking about prejudice... Just wait until someone finds out that the German co-pilot was a maladjusted closet gay, and all hell will break lose!... :D

[For the mod's benefit: I'm just kidding!!!... :lol: ]
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Re: Germany

Post by Endovelico »

Co-pilot Andreas Lubitz trawled suicide and gay websites before crash
By Fiona Keating - March 29, 2015 12:39 BST

The 27-year-old co-pilot Andreas Lubitz believed to have deliberately crashed Germanwings Flight 4U 9525 plane, killing 149 passengers, trawled gay porn websites and sites relating to suicide, investigators have revealed.

He also feared losing his eyesight and was suffering from depression.

A police source in Dusseldorf revealed: "We have a team disassembling his computer, and that of his girlfriend, because the information that we received was that he trawled the dark side of the web visiting, among other things, sites containing gay porn, suicide themes and sexual perversions."

The reports emerged after police started examining documents and a computer from his flat in Dusseldorf – the same one where ripped-up sick notes were discovered in the rubbish.

At a press conference, Marseille prosecutor Brice Robin said: "We have asked for information from the German investigation on both his profession and personal background'.

He added: "He [Lubitz] did this for a reason which we don't know why, but we can only deduct that he destroyed this plane."

Troubled personal life

The pilot was the target of gossip about his sexuality after briefly working as a flight attendant.

Lubitz was given the nickname "Tomato Andy": a German term for repressed homosexuals.

The anti-gay slur is based on the fact that while a tomato is thought to be a vegetable, it is really a fruit, according to Gay Star News.

Reports have suggested he was troubled by his sexuality and also seeking treatment for vision problems. Lubitz had recent hospital treatment for his eyesight, according to officials close to the German investigation.

It was also revealed that the 27-year-old was treated by four psychiatrists in the months leading up to the fatal plane crash, reported the Sun.

A "small mountain" of drugs believed to be antidepressants were found at Lubitz's apartment.

Antidepressants are used to treat range of conditions, including anxiety and panic disorders, obsessive-compulsive behaviour, phobias, post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), chronic pain, as well as moderate and severe depression.
Mystery medical condition

However, officials at Dusseldorf University Hospital stated that they had treated Lubitz on 10 March, but not for depression. They also refused to confirm whether the pilot had been a patient at its specialist eye clinic.

Police also found a diary at Lubitz's Dusseldorf flat in which he wrote of his fears that he would be "found out" and lose his job.

"I have too much work and I am not able to do my job properly," he noted.

Ralf Herrenbrück, Dusseldorf attorney-general said no suicide note was found by investigators and there was "no reason to suggest political or religious motives" at Lubitz's home.

"However, documents of a medical nature were recovered which refer to an existing illness and treatment by doctors," he added.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/germanwings-al ... sh-1494044
Well! This is what I had feared all along. A repressed homosexual, unable to live with his sexuality, looks for a compensation in a heterosexual relationship which doesn't work, and he ends up seeing no other way out but suicide. He isn't the first repressed homosexual to follow a similar path. The difference is that he chose to take 149 innocent people with him. Unscientific as it may be, the first time I saw pictures of him I had immediately the impression that he was gay. In any case this is the only plausible explanation so far offered for this drama. And this is not meant to be a slur on homosexuals, just the opposite. Had he accepted the reality of being gay and had people around him been more tolerant, and we wouldn't be now morning 150 victims.
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: Germany

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

Endovelico wrote:
Co-pilot Andreas Lubitz trawled suicide and gay websites before crash
By Fiona Keating - March 29, 2015 12:39 BST

The 27-year-old co-pilot Andreas Lubitz believed to have deliberately crashed Germanwings Flight 4U 9525 plane, killing 149 passengers, trawled gay porn websites and sites relating to suicide, investigators have revealed.

He also feared losing his eyesight and was suffering from depression.

A police source in Dusseldorf revealed: "We have a team disassembling his computer, and that of his girlfriend, because the information that we received was that he trawled the dark side of the web visiting, among other things, sites containing gay porn, suicide themes and sexual perversions."

The reports emerged after police started examining documents and a computer from his flat in Dusseldorf – the same one where ripped-up sick notes were discovered in the rubbish.

At a press conference, Marseille prosecutor Brice Robin said: "We have asked for information from the German investigation on both his profession and personal background'.

He added: "He [Lubitz] did this for a reason which we don't know why, but we can only deduct that he destroyed this plane."

Troubled personal life

The pilot was the target of gossip about his sexuality after briefly working as a flight attendant.

Lubitz was given the nickname "Tomato Andy": a German term for repressed homosexuals.

The anti-gay slur is based on the fact that while a tomato is thought to be a vegetable, it is really a fruit, according to Gay Star News.

Reports have suggested he was troubled by his sexuality and also seeking treatment for vision problems. Lubitz had recent hospital treatment for his eyesight, according to officials close to the German investigation.

It was also revealed that the 27-year-old was treated by four psychiatrists in the months leading up to the fatal plane crash, reported the Sun.

A "small mountain" of drugs believed to be antidepressants were found at Lubitz's apartment.

Antidepressants are used to treat range of conditions, including anxiety and panic disorders, obsessive-compulsive behaviour, phobias, post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), chronic pain, as well as moderate and severe depression.
Mystery medical condition

However, officials at Dusseldorf University Hospital stated that they had treated Lubitz on 10 March, but not for depression. They also refused to confirm whether the pilot had been a patient at its specialist eye clinic.

Police also found a diary at Lubitz's Dusseldorf flat in which he wrote of his fears that he would be "found out" and lose his job.

"I have too much work and I am not able to do my job properly," he noted.

Ralf Herrenbrück, Dusseldorf attorney-general said no suicide note was found by investigators and there was "no reason to suggest political or religious motives" at Lubitz's home.

"However, documents of a medical nature were recovered which refer to an existing illness and treatment by doctors," he added.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/germanwings-al ... sh-1494044
Well! This is what I had feared all along. A repressed homosexual, unable to live with his sexuality, looks for a compensation in a heterosexual relationship which doesn't work, and he ends up seeing no other way out but suicide. He isn't the first repressed homosexual to follow a similar path. The difference is that he chose to take 149 innocent people with him. Unscientific as it may be, the first time I saw pictures of him I had immediately the impression that he was gay. In any case this is the only plausible explanation so far offered for this drama. And this is not meant to be a slur on homosexuals, just the opposite. Had he accepted the reality of being gay and had people around him been more tolerant, and we wouldn't be now morning 150 victims.

.

Yes, I read reports he was "in closet" homosexual and Jewish .. this not reported in mainstream media .. but sooner and later it will come out


.
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Endovelico
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Re: Germany

Post by Endovelico »

Alemania frente a los estereotipos
by Fernando Vallespín 31 MAR 2015 - 00:01 CEST

No es fácil escribir sobre estas cosas cuando todavía nos encontramos bajo el impacto de la tragedia del avión de Germanwings y después de asistir al perfecto engranaje de cooperación europea que siguió al accidente. Pero estoy seguro de que muchos de ustedes sintieron, junto al lógico dolor por las víctimas, un cierto alivio porque el avión siniestrado no fuera de bandera española. Y ese alivio muy probablemente iría en aumento a medida que fueron conociéndose las circunstancias del suceso. ¿Se imaginan las reacciones en la prensa alemana y de otros países europeos de haberse tratado, digamos, de un vuelo de Iberia Express? ¿Qué no hubieran dicho sobre nuestra supuesta improvisación, ausencia de controles, o dejadez en general? Hubiéramos sido un blanco sencillo para ser torpedeados en nuestro orgullo nacional por importantes sectores de la prensa sensacionalista. Y la razón es evidente, hay ya un terreno abonado construido a partir de estereotipos nacionales que funcionan con una inmensa capacidad de convicción. Ricemos el rizo, supongamos que el avión salía de Tesalónica y era de una compañía griega. La imputación en ese caso hubiera ido mucho más allá de la acción individual del copiloto para trasladarse a la situación general de dicho país.

¿Se imaginan las reacciones en la prensa alemana y de otros países europeos de haberse tratado, digamos, de un vuelo de Iberia Express?

La propia reacción de los medios alemanes fue de una inmensa perplejidad precisamente porque rompía con el estereotipo que ellos tienen de sí mismos, del país de los mil controles y la perfecta maquinaria organizativa. El trastorno, del signo que sea, que afectó a Andreas Lubitz tuvo que haber sido previsto, y los discursos sobre la “sociedad del riesgo” u otras circunstancias personales del copiloto ofrecen poco alivio. En algún lugar de la cadena hubo un error que pasó desapercibido y tuvo los efectos que ya conocemos. A pesar de la (mala) fama que en estos asuntos tenemos por otros lares, nosotros hubiéramos reaccionado igual.

Lejos de mí el utilizar este luctuoso acontecimiento como acicate para abundar en los tópicos. Mi intención es la contraria, valerme de él para, mediante la introducción de un contrafáctico, contribuir a romper el poder que hoy en día siguen teniendo los estereotipos. En Alemania también se retrasan los trenes y aquí a veces nos sorprende lo tremendamente puntuales que son. Ni aquélla es una sociedad perfecta, ni las del sur de Europa son el desastre que se percibe desde el norte. Y si hay algo que han demostrado las actuaciones de después del accidente es que más allá de las retóricas, los prejuicios y las ofuscaciones de unos países hacia otros, en lo sustancial estamos a un nivel parecido y los engranajes cooperativos pueden hacerse funcionar con eficacia. En gran parte, porque la UE nos regula a todos por igual, nos homogeneiza y compensa nuestros desequilibrios.

Lo conseguido de facto en el ámbito organizativo no se ha trasladado, sin embargo, a las mentes de las diferentes ciudadanías. En plena crisis del euro, cuando se produjeron en Alemania unas misteriosas muertes provocadas aparentemente por pepinos españoles, un diario de Berlín tituló: “El culpable es un sureuropeo”. Al final la causa estaba en unos brotes de soja de otro lugar. Pero el daño ya estaba hecho. Seamos serios, no alimentemos el espantajo de los chivos expiatorios o los topicazos.

http://internacional.elpais.com/interna ... 94725.html
I beg your forgiveness for posting a Spanish text, but if you manage to read and understand it you will see that it is worth your while.
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Doc
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Re: Germany

Post by Doc »

Endovelico wrote:
Alemania frente a los estereotipos
by Fernando Vallespín 31 MAR 2015 - 00:01 CEST

No es fácil escribir sobre estas cosas cuando todavía nos encontramos bajo el impacto de la tragedia del avión de Germanwings y después de asistir al perfecto engranaje de cooperación europea que siguió al accidente. Pero estoy seguro de que muchos de ustedes sintieron, junto al lógico dolor por las víctimas, un cierto alivio porque el avión siniestrado no fuera de bandera española. Y ese alivio muy probablemente iría en aumento a medida que fueron conociéndose las circunstancias del suceso. ¿Se imaginan las reacciones en la prensa alemana y de otros países europeos de haberse tratado, digamos, de un vuelo de Iberia Express? ¿Qué no hubieran dicho sobre nuestra supuesta improvisación, ausencia de controles, o dejadez en general? Hubiéramos sido un blanco sencillo para ser torpedeados en nuestro orgullo nacional por importantes sectores de la prensa sensacionalista. Y la razón es evidente, hay ya un terreno abonado construido a partir de estereotipos nacionales que funcionan con una inmensa capacidad de convicción. Ricemos el rizo, supongamos que el avión salía de Tesalónica y era de una compañía griega. La imputación en ese caso hubiera ido mucho más allá de la acción individual del copiloto para trasladarse a la situación general de dicho país.

¿Se imaginan las reacciones en la prensa alemana y de otros países europeos de haberse tratado, digamos, de un vuelo de Iberia Express?

La propia reacción de los medios alemanes fue de una inmensa perplejidad precisamente porque rompía con el estereotipo que ellos tienen de sí mismos, del país de los mil controles y la perfecta maquinaria organizativa. El trastorno, del signo que sea, que afectó a Andreas Lubitz tuvo que haber sido previsto, y los discursos sobre la “sociedad del riesgo” u otras circunstancias personales del copiloto ofrecen poco alivio. En algún lugar de la cadena hubo un error que pasó desapercibido y tuvo los efectos que ya conocemos. A pesar de la (mala) fama que en estos asuntos tenemos por otros lares, nosotros hubiéramos reaccionado igual.

Lejos de mí el utilizar este luctuoso acontecimiento como acicate para abundar en los tópicos. Mi intención es la contraria, valerme de él para, mediante la introducción de un contrafáctico, contribuir a romper el poder que hoy en día siguen teniendo los estereotipos. En Alemania también se retrasan los trenes y aquí a veces nos sorprende lo tremendamente puntuales que son. Ni aquélla es una sociedad perfecta, ni las del sur de Europa son el desastre que se percibe desde el norte. Y si hay algo que han demostrado las actuaciones de después del accidente es que más allá de las retóricas, los prejuicios y las ofuscaciones de unos países hacia otros, en lo sustancial estamos a un nivel parecido y los engranajes cooperativos pueden hacerse funcionar con eficacia. En gran parte, porque la UE nos regula a todos por igual, nos homogeneiza y compensa nuestros desequilibrios.

Lo conseguido de facto en el ámbito organizativo no se ha trasladado, sin embargo, a las mentes de las diferentes ciudadanías. En plena crisis del euro, cuando se produjeron en Alemania unas misteriosas muertes provocadas aparentemente por pepinos españoles, un diario de Berlín tituló: “El culpable es un sureuropeo”. Al final la causa estaba en unos brotes de soja de otro lugar. Pero el daño ya estaba hecho. Seamos serios, no alimentemos el espantajo de los chivos expiatorios o los topicazos.

http://internacional.elpais.com/interna ... 94725.html
I beg your forgiveness for posting a Spanish text, but if you manage to read and understand it you will see that it is worth your while.
Airbus has a history of trying to divert blame Look at the concord crash. The Air transportation safety board in the US prides itself on finding the real causes so they can be prevented from happening in the future That is their only purpose and they take it very seriously

As to this crash Lufthansa admitted only today that they knew the co-pilot had severe mental problems. What is that one week after the crash? My personal experience with German engineering as an engineer is that the Germans way over design everything that they make. It is in their culture. All fine and well except it is inherent that the more parts you build into a design the greater chance for failure. And the harder it is to quantify what went wrong when it does.

Right out of the gate when they announced that the Co-pilot was alone in the cabin they said over here that the international rules are that Two people have to be in the cabin at all times. Now they are saying that is not the rule OR to be specific that they are thinking to change the rules. My guess is (and it is only a guess) that the co-pilot was not just depressed but he was paranoid from what they said about the flight voice recorder tapes and his actively blocking the door to the cock pit while the captain tried to get in.

So they run a crooked game. The rule of law has plenty of exceptions.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: Germany

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

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Endovelico
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Re: Germany

Post by Endovelico »

German Vice-Chancellor Gabriel (SPD) calls “stupid” Greece’s WWII reparations of €278.7billion
Posted by keeptalkinggreece in Politics
http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2015/0 ... -7billion/

Germany’s economy minister, Merkel’s vice chancellor and leader of Social Democrats (SPD) Sigmar Gabriel branded Greece’s demand for 278.7 billion euros in reparations from World War Two as “stupid“, Reuters report on Tuesday. Gabriel’s diplomatic reaction comes a day after Greek deputy Finance Minister Dimitris Mardas said that Germany had to pay to Greece €278.7 billion in WWII reparations for atrocities, damages in infrastructure and the “enforced loan” the NAzis took from the occupied country.

Sigmar Gabriel, who is economy minister and German vice chancellor, called the demand “stupid”, saying Greece ultimately had an interest in squeezing a bit of leeway out of its euro zone partners to help Athens overcome its debt crisis.

“And this leeway has absolutely nothing to do with World War Two or reparation payments,” said Gabriel, who leads the Social Democrats (SPD), junior partner in the ruling coalition with Chancellor Angela Merkel’s conservatives.

Sigmar Gabriel seems to forget the WWII reparations was always an issue for Greece with or without economic crisis.

Anyway, ,Greece has some supporters in the German opposition with the Greens and Die Linke saying that Berlin should repay at least the “enforced loan” dating from 1942.

But Greece’s demand for Germany to repay a forced wartime loan amounting to 10.3 billion euros found support from the German opposition, with members of the Greens and the far-left Linke party saying Berlin should cough up.

Both Manuel Sarrazin, a European policy expert for the Greens, and Annette Groth, a member of the leftist Linke party and chairman of a German-Greek parliamentary group, told Reuters that Berlin should repay a so-called occupation loan that Nazi Germany forced the Bank of Greece to make in 1942.

Berlin and Athens should “jointly and amicably” take any other claims to the International Court of Justice, Sarrazin said.

Also the President of European Parliament Martin Schulz rejected Athens’ demands saying “reparations are legally completed” and thus although nobody asked him…
Germany has repeatedly rejected Greece’s demands claiming the issue has been settled …. loooooong ago. But this is not the case.
Stupid? Stupid was Germany invading Greece; stupid was the relentless economic exploitation by the Nazis; stupid was raw materials and food being requisitioned leading to Greece's great famine; stupid was the Greek collaborationist government being forced to pay the cost of the occupation; stupid was the breakdown of the country's distribution networks due to a combination damage to infrastructure, the collapse of the central government and the fragmentation of the country at the hands of the Axis; stupid was the Germans executing some 21,000 Greeks during the occupation... With so much stupidity one must conclude that Germans must be basically stupid. And the most stupid thing Germans did was starting a war they ended up losing...

Asking for reparation for all the crimes committed during the war - a war started by Germany and in no way provoked by Greece - is certainly not stupid. It is a demand for justice which Germany cannot deny. But maybe Germany believes that there are debts which must be paid, and debts which are never paid...
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Re: Germany

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

Asking for reparations is a tactic, not a strategy. Greece has a Calvinball or "keep away" strategy of dealing with the Troika. They are being as random and asymetrical as possible in order to delay. If a reparations are seriously addressed, then Greece will wave the red flag of Russian aid/naval support or NATO or tax German businesses or AIIB or Cyprus or some new tactic will be brought out.

The Eu will fail. The only question is in what order the countries will fall, and those who fail first will lose the most as the Eurozone begins to resemble the Donner Party.

Greece's strategy is really quite brilliant coming from a last place player. Schnauble is furiously rolling around in his wheelchair trying to spank them with his belt, but Greece is so maneuverable the crusty old fart can't touch them. Why settle for negotiations when you can have a rodeo?
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: Germany

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

Endovelico wrote:
German Vice-Chancellor Gabriel (SPD) calls “stupid” Greece’s WWII reparations of €278.7billion
Posted by keeptalkinggreece in Politics
http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2015/0 ... -7billion/

Germany’s economy minister, Merkel’s vice chancellor and leader of Social Democrats (SPD) Sigmar Gabriel branded Greece’s demand for 278.7 billion euros in reparations from World War Two as “stupid“, Reuters report on Tuesday. Gabriel’s diplomatic reaction comes a day after Greek deputy Finance Minister Dimitris Mardas said that Germany had to pay to Greece €278.7 billion in WWII reparations for atrocities, damages in infrastructure and the “enforced loan” the NAzis took from the occupied country.

Sigmar Gabriel, who is economy minister and German vice chancellor, called the demand “stupid”, saying Greece ultimately had an interest in squeezing a bit of leeway out of its euro zone partners to help Athens overcome its debt crisis.

“And this leeway has absolutely nothing to do with World War Two or reparation payments,” said Gabriel, who leads the Social Democrats (SPD), junior partner in the ruling coalition with Chancellor Angela Merkel’s conservatives.

Sigmar Gabriel seems to forget the WWII reparations was always an issue for Greece with or without economic crisis.

Anyway, ,Greece has some supporters in the German opposition with the Greens and Die Linke saying that Berlin should repay at least the “enforced loan” dating from 1942.

But Greece’s demand for Germany to repay a forced wartime loan amounting to 10.3 billion euros found support from the German opposition, with members of the Greens and the far-left Linke party saying Berlin should cough up.

Both Manuel Sarrazin, a European policy expert for the Greens, and Annette Groth, a member of the leftist Linke party and chairman of a German-Greek parliamentary group, told Reuters that Berlin should repay a so-called occupation loan that Nazi Germany forced the Bank of Greece to make in 1942.

Berlin and Athens should “jointly and amicably” take any other claims to the International Court of Justice, Sarrazin said.

Also the President of European Parliament Martin Schulz rejected Athens’ demands saying “reparations are legally completed” and thus although nobody asked him…
Germany has repeatedly rejected Greece’s demands claiming the issue has been settled …. loooooong ago. But this is not the case.
Stupid? Stupid was Germany invading Greece; stupid was the relentless economic exploitation by the Nazis; stupid was raw materials and food being requisitioned leading to Greece's great famine; stupid was the Greek collaborationist government being forced to pay the cost of the occupation; stupid was the breakdown of the country's distribution networks due to a combination damage to infrastructure, the collapse of the central government and the fragmentation of the country at the hands of the Axis; stupid was the Germans executing some 21,000 Greeks during the occupation... With so much stupidity one must conclude that Germans must be basically stupid. And the most stupid thing Germans did was starting a war they ended up losing...

Asking for reparation for all the crimes committed during the war - a war started by Germany and in no way provoked by Greece - is certainly not stupid. It is a demand for justice which Germany cannot deny. But maybe Germany believes that there are debts which must be paid, and debts which are never paid...

.


seconded


.
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Alexis
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Re: Germany

Post by Alexis »

Nonc Hilaire wrote:Why settle for negotiations when you can have a rodeo?
Thanks for the laugh :) :lol: !

On reparations, Greeks obviously know that Germany won't pay. However, reparation demands are a useful tactic both
- before the breakup - shores up national pride of the Greek population and increases support to the government
- and after the breakup - when European governments continue to reproach the debts that Greece will have denounciated, the Greek will be able to reply "Well at least we didn't come and kill you, it was merely a financial matter"

A dirty tactic, obviously. But then, it's merely small change on the tactics the Troika and Eurogroup governments have been using against the Greek population.
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Re: Germany

Post by YMix »

Endovelico wrote:Asking for reparation for all the crimes committed during the war - a war started by Germany and in no way provoked by Greece - is certainly not stupid. It is a demand for justice which Germany cannot deny. But maybe Germany believes that there are debts which must be paid, and debts which are never paid...
I'm very interested in this matter. We've been waiting for almost a century.
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Re: Germany

Post by Endovelico »

Germany Orders 100 Tanks To "Ensure Troops Are Ready To Respond To Russian Assertiveness"
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 04/10/2015 14:51 -0400
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-04-1 ... ertiveness

With Jean-Claude Juncker demanding a Unified European Army, it appears Germany is wasting no time in simultaneously boosting its own economy with warfare spending and comforting a 'fearful populace' with more military might. As Reuters reports, Germany plans to procure more than 100 additional Leopard 2 tanks, increasing its total Leopard 2 tank inventory by a whopping 45% a government spokesman said on Friday, as it seeks to ensure its "troops are ready for action in response to concerns over recent Russian assertiveness."

Reuters reports:

Germany plans to procure more than 100 additional Leopard 2 tanks, a government spokesman said on Friday, as it seeks to ensure its troops are ready for action in response to concerns over recent Russian assertiveness.

The decision to restock its military comes as NATO tries to hasten the response time of its rapid reaction force following Russia's annexation of Crimea last year and conflict in Ukraine.

"The ministry has decided to raise the upper limit for the future to 328," a defense ministry spokesman told a regular government news conference on Friday, confirming a report by German magazine Spiegel.

Just before the end of the Cold War, in the 1980s, the then West Germany had more than 3,500 tanks. Now, seventy years after World War Two, it has just 225. As a result soldiers have to share tanks and heavy equipment across different units.

Given NATO's new goals on flexibility and rapid reaction time, Germany has to ensure that it can deploy troops with the correct equipment to the right place in a short period of time, the spokesman said. "This can only succeed if the equipment does not need to be first moved around through the country," he said.

The Leopard tanks are made by Krauss-Maffei Wegmann (KMW).

So harbinger of S&P algos euphoria-inducing WWIII? Or just another Keynesian public works spending project?
Maybe someone in Germany will realize that without the aggressive posturing against Russia, Germany could have used its money in some more useful manners... Having poked the bear, it now needs some more chicken wire... I doubt it will be of much use anyway...
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Alexis
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Re: Germany

Post by Alexis »

Endovelico wrote:
Germany Orders 100 Tanks To "Ensure Troops Are Ready To Respond To Russian Assertiveness"
As Reuters reports, Germany plans to procure more than 100 additional Leopard 2 tanks, increasing its total Leopard 2 tank inventory by a whopping 45% a government spokesman said on Friday, as it seeks to ensure its "troops are ready for action in response to concerns over recent Russian assertiveness."
Sorry... I just can't resist.

This is the time for Girls und Panzer :mrgreen: ;)

E9c8C2K-TtE
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: Germany

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

.

Welt am Sonntag : How Germany financed Israel’s nuclear Bomb

By Hans Rühle

Israel’s nuclear weapons capability ceased to be a secret quite some time ago. Although Israel sticks to its rhetoric of “intentional ambiguity” and punishes any mention of its nuke program by its citizens as a criminal offense, most of its details have been exposed, except one: Who financed the program?

That last Israeli nuclear secret is finally revealed: the country that financed Israel’s nuclear weapons program was with almost absolute certainty the Federal Republic of Germany. The recent explicit denial by Israel’s former President Shimon Peres does not invalidate this finding. Even Israeli top officials still remain obliged not to reveal anything about Israel’s nuclear weapons in general, and German-Israeli nuclear cooperation in particular.

Israel’s nuclear history began in 1952 with the founding of the Israeli Atomic Energy Commission. In July 1955, Israel signed a contract offered by the U.S. in the framework of the “Atoms for Peace” program on acquiring a small research reactor for the peaceful use of nuclear energy. However, Prime Minister Ben Gurion and the Director General of the Ministry of Defense, Shimon Peres, were already following a hidden agenda at the time. In November 1956, Peres asked the French Defense Minister Maurice Bourgès-Maunoury: “What would you say if Israel were to create its own potential for retaliation?” A year later, Peres signed three secret agreements with representatives of the socialist government Mollet. France supplied a 24 megawatt heavy water reactor, lent Israel 385 tons of natural uranium, agreed to cooperate on the research and production of nuclear weapons and lend support for the constructing of a reprocessing plant to produce plutonium.

Construction of the reactor began around the end of 1957-58 near the town of Dimona in the Negev desert. By 1964, the reactor was completed, the reprocessing plant followed one year later. By the end of 1966 the Israeli engineers had mastered the craft of making a bomb. At the start of the Six Day War (1967) Israel possessed two warheads; at the outbreak of the Yom Kippur War (1973) it had between 10 and 20.

All these developments were initially undertaken under heavy secrecy. However, in 1960, the plant in Dimona was spotted by US reconnaissance. Moreover, French President Charles de Gaulle now demanded that Israel should publicly reaffirm that its nuclear program was civilian only. Israel complied. At the end of 1960 Ben-Gurion declared publicly that the reactor was intended solely for the peaceful use of nuclear energy. He added that Israel was also building a scientific center for the study of arid zones near the reactor.

The Israeli government initially deflected public pressure to justify the construction work in Dimona with this obvious lie. Yet many international observers remained suspicious. Labelling Dimona a “textile factory” did not solve the problem either. However, there simply was no solid evidence to prove that Dimona was serving military purposes. This success was partly due to Peres having created in 1957, a special secret unit devoted exclusively to the protection of Israel’s military nuclear program called LAKAM (a Hebrew acronym). Even the intelligence service Mossad, which worked not only abroad but also knew what was going on within Israel, remained in the dark. Isser Harel, then Head of Mossad, later complained: “LAKAM was built behind my back and without my knowledge.” But LAKAM was successful – until 1986.

In October 1986, the “Sunday Times” published information by Mordechai Vanunu, an Israeli engineer who had worked in Dimona from 1976 to 1985. According to him, Israel was producing 40 kg of plutonium per year, which was sufficient for 8 to 10 bombs. Vanunu’s information was credible, not least because he had photographically documented the inner workings of Dimona, including the model of a hydrogen bomb. Now it became clear that “Dimona” was not just a heavy water reactor, but included a complex of nine other buildings, of which at least one was built six floors underground and contained the core of the system, the reprocessing plant to produce plutonium. Dimona was a fully-fledged nuclear weapons factory; the only outside supplies it required was natural uranium and heavy water for operating the reactor.

From Vanunu’s statements on the production capacity of Dimona, one can deduct that Israel currently has at least 200 strategic nuclear weapons of the Hiroshima / Nagasaki category (15 kilotons) as well as nuclear artillery shells.

Even after Vanunu’s revelations one question never entered the debate: How could a rather poor country like Israel finance a site the size of Dimona, where up to 2,700 people were working? The question was not asked because it was considered answered long ago. In the early 1960s, when the only issue was the civilian use of Dimona, Ben Gurion placated the critics by assuring them that the project would be financed outside the regular state budget – namely by international donors. The responsibility for this project was with Peres: “Not one penny came from the government budget. The project was financed from contributions I raised from Jewish millionaires who understood the importance of the issue.” Peres claimed to have raised more than $40 million, an amount he said to have covered half the cost of the reactor.

This statement by Peres is not the only available quantitative indication of how much money was acquired from international donors. It also raises the question as to who paid for the other half of the reactor. The other question is: Who paid for the entire Dimona complex, which included much more than a reactor and thus must have cost several times as much?

To this day, there is only one reference on a specific source of foreign funding for the Israeli nuclear weapons program beyond the $40 million acquired by Peres. When the issue of German-Israeli relations had again become a controversial topic in Israel, Ben Gurion warned in a background conversation with Israeli newspaper editors on March 31, 1963 that a confrontation with the Adenauer government was not in Israel’s interest. He said it could upset the development of an Israeli deterrent the importance of which could not be overestimated both for the security of Israel and the prevention of future wars.

Ben Gurion’s remarks were not only fairly straightforward, they also reflected the truth: Since 1961, the Federal Republic of Germany had been funding the Israeli nuclear weapons program, disguised as a contribution “to the development of the Negev”, a hobbyhorse of Ben Gurion since the days of the founding of Israel.

How did this happen?

On March 14, 1960, Adenauer and Ben Gurion met in the Waldorf Astoria Hotel in New York City. At this meeting the two heads of state agreed that the Federal Republic would offer Israel a ten-year loan of $ 500 million – then two billion Deutschmarks – for supporting the “development of the Negev”. The deal was not an agreement in a strict technical sense. It didn’t, therefore, require the involvement of the German Bundestag nor the Cabinet. It was implemented through the top secret “Operation Business Partner” (“Aktion Geschäftsfreund”). As Niels Hansen, a recently deceased former high level official in the German Foreign Office and longtime German ambassador to Israel, wrote in his well-informed book “Aus dem Schatten der Katastrophe” (“Out of the Shadows of Disaster”), the necessary arrangements were laid down in December 1961 between the Israeli Chargé d’Affaires in Germany, Felix Eliezer Shinnar, and Rolf Lahr, a Deputy Foreign Minister. The subsidized loans would be handled under the budget line “Support for developing countries through bilateral capital grant aid”. The state-owned “Kreditanstalt für Wiederaufbau” (KfW) was entrusted with the implementation. The purpose was loosely defined as “industrial and infrastructure projects”. The average interest rate was to be 3.6%.

These formal conditions were in line with arrangements for capital assistance to developing countries. However, the actual implementation of “Operation Business Partner” followed different “rules”. In the words of a high-level German official, “unlike in all other cases in which … (the KfW) is active in the field of financing development, the use of the funds made available for Israel were never checked … there have never been any talks with the Israeli partner ‘Industrial Development Bank of Israel’”. Shinnar mentions that one had to report about the use of funds “at regular intervals,” yet this was a mere formality. Accordingly, the information on the purpose of the loans was terse: “Development of the Negev”, “textile factory”, or “nuclear-powered desalination plant in the Negev”. None of these projects, which in principle would not have required secrecy, was ever realized. And yet the money kept flowing.

Against this background it is not surprising that the KfW to this day steadfastly refuses to make available the “top secret” documents on payments to Israel in the context of “Operation Business Partner.” However, this is not essential for finding out what happened to these transfers. As Hansen commented on the basis of Foreign Office documents, the payments under “Operation Business Partner” were made until 1973. In total, more than two billion DM were transferred. Over the years, the conditions for open years, interest and redemption were amended several times – the last time in 1989 to a term of 30 years, ten years, and 2% interest rate, respectively.

A strong piece of evidence that “Operation Business Partner” was about Dimona is the fact that the official Israeli justification for the plant in Dimona mirrored the language used by the German Foreign Office. As Dan Ravid and Yossi Melman report in their book “Spies Against Armageddon”, Blumberg, the Head of LAKAM, would justify the enormous movements of soil at Beersheba as being part of the construction of a large textile factory; occasionally, though reluctantly, he also mentioned a sea water desalination plant; although the absurdity of such a plant in the desert was not lost on him.

The German lenders and the Israeli borrowers used the same terminology: “development of the Negev”, “textile factory”, “desalination”. In other words, the German money from “Operation Business Partner” went directly into the Dimona project, i.e. into financing a nuclear production site. The overall cost of the Dimona nuclear weapons factory – regardless of the actual transferred amount of about two billion DM (500 Mio $) – remains unknown for as long as the French government, which had sold essential components of the system (in particular the reactor and reprocessing plant) is not disclosing its bills. At the current stage one has to assume that the loans provided through “Operation Business Partner” were sufficient to finance the entire nuclear plant. Given the extremely favorable financial terms of “Operation Business Partner” (overall it lasted for over 30 years, with 2% interest) one can conclude that Germany did not only finance the Israeli nuclear weapons program by way of loans, but de facto paid for most of it. As German negotiator Kurt Birrenbach argued in 1965, “in economic terms a long-term loan with a low interest rate comes very close to a grant.” Converted to the current price level, the total amount of credit that Israel received from Germany in the context of “Operation Business Partner” was about € 5 billion. From a strictly economic perspective, 4 out of these 5 billion had been converted into grants.

Only once was a prominent West German politician linked to the financing of Israel’s nuclear program. On 19 January 1996, “Ha-aretz” published a story about “the German colony in Dimona”. It mentioned a “forgotten Israeli novel” from the sixties, which had used so many pseudonyms that it had evaded censorship. However, decrypting the story is not all that difficult. The central message of the article is the claim that the German Defense Minister Strauss had made available DM 500 million to finance the reactor in Dimona. He had taken the money from an unauthorized fund of the German government – a move for which he later was forced to resign.

To this day, these statements have not been backed up by concrete evidence. What is probably true is that Strauss did not only push for “military aid” to Israel, but was also involved in shaping the origins of “Operation Business Partner.” Peres, who since the late 1950 used to visit Germany several times per year, met almost exclusively with Strauss. Their second meeting, which took place in December 1957 in Strauss’ private home in Rott am Inn, yielded an interesting piece of information. When Peres told the German journalist Rolf Vogel about the meeting, he said that “Germany sought to provide reparation to Israel in a broad sense, i.e. it tried to help protect Israel against the threats of the future.” It is perhaps in this context that one should recall Strauss’ repeated comments that there were things which could only be revealed at a much later stage.

The new evidence about “Operation Business Partner” closes the last gap in the research on the German-Israeli nuclear relationship. That these revelations appear as Germany and Israel are celebrating the 50th anniversary of the establishment of diplomatic relations is a coincidence. However, it provides for considerable satisfaction. Germany’s financial support for the development of the Israeli nuclear weapons program has given the Jewish State a unique insurance for survival. Those who initiated and implemented “Operation Business Partner” can be proud.

Hans Ruhle is a respected German military and security analyst who has written for many international publications. He was director of policy planning at the German Defense Ministry 1982-1988, and General Manager of the NATO Multirole Combat Aircraft Development and Production Management Agency from 1990 to 1995.
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Re: Germany

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Merkel in Moscow describes annexation of Ukraine's Crimea as "criminal"
REUTERS
http://www.unian.info/politics/1076477- ... minal.html

Speaking at a press conference in Moscow on Sunday, Merkel, who was standing close to Russian President Vladimir Putin, said that the Russia's annexation of the Crimean peninsula had caused "a serious setback in our relations," BBC reported.

According to her, the "criminal" annexation of Crimea, which violates international law, and the armed conflict in eastern Ukraine have seriously undermined the relations with Russia.

"However history teaches us that we must do anything possible to resolve conflicts, however, difficult they may be, peacefully and through dialogue," she added.
If she actually used the word "criminal", instead of "illegal", she is more stupid than I thought possible. A reunification done without any loss of life and supported by 90% of the people is criminal?...I do not expect Putin to take it very positively, but that was maybe the purpose of the whole exercise, to provoke Putin. We will see what happens next...I have a feeling Germany and the whole West are going to regret their consistent stupidity...
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Re: Germany

Post by noddy »

germans and americans on the same side would be an unstoppable force of destruction.

hopefully we/they are all as pussified as the conservatives claim and the russians dont end up provoking lots of latent rage - their surely is plenty of it looking for an outlet.
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Re: Germany

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Concentration camps were not the only appalling thing Nazis did, their "art" was nearly as deadly...

Image
Arno Breker's "The Wehrmacht", which has just been found and recovered in Germany
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Re: Germany

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YaG5SAw1n0c
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA
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Re: Germany

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Endovelico wrote:Concentration camps were not the only appalling thing Nazis did, their "art" was nearly as deadly...

Image
Arno Breker's "The Wehrmacht", which has just been found and recovered in Germany
The art associated with totalitarian regimes is invariably banal.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
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Germany and the Greeks...

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“Greeks are not real Greeks” claims German WELT, favoring a DNA-based EU-membership
Posted by keeptalkinggreece in Very Mix
http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2015/0 ... eedfetcher

Die Welt is a conservative daily close to Merkel’s Christian Democrat Party CDU. In this nicely set German New EU Order of “kick Greece out of the eurozone”, Greeks have no place. For reasons not only economical but also historical and -what a surprise! – even racial. For the simple claimed fact that “Greeks already destroyed once the European Order,” so the article title in the history section of DER WELT and because modern Greeks were not descendents of the famous Greeks of the antique, but a”Turkish-molded mixture of Slavs, Byzantines and Albanians.” What is interesting and extremely worrying at the same time is that the WELT-author revives racial theories of the Nazis, as he quotes 19th-century Austrian scholar Jakob Philipp Fallmerayer, a xenophobe and a slavophobe, who had invented the “Greeks are not real Greeks” theory.

In the context of the DNA-based eligibility for EU membership, the thesis of Conservative WELT and CDU clearly implies that apart from the fake Greeks, neither real Turks, Slavs and Albanians should be allowed in the European family of undiluted blood and pour races.

Racists to the bones

The authors makes a reference to the Battle of Navarino in 1827, during the Greek War of Independence (1821–32), where the Great Powers (Britain, France and Russia) destroyed the Ottoman armada thus creating a breakthrough in the Greek Independence War against the Sultan.

However, according to the author the motives of the Great Powers were not geostrategical as every political scientist would think nowadays, but noble and romantic.

“The three powers did that actually against their conviction (peoples should not rise up against their monarch), but because of pure romanticism because the classically educated Western Europeans did not want the descendants of Homer, Socrates and Pericles to be further suppressed by the Turks.”

Then the author’s argumentation falls like a heavy sledgehammer on the heads of those believing that Germany had learned from the fatal mistakes of its past, it had removed from skin and uprooted from soul the racism of national-socialism. The WELT-author explains to its German conservative readers that the Great Power helped the Greeks “but for the wrong reasons.” And this because “the Greeks were not real Greeks” – so the WELT-claim – in terms of racial purification, “inferiority – superiority” duality and cultural arrogance of the European North towards the European South.

“The idea the Greeks of modern times were descendants of Pericles or Socrates and not a Turkish-molded mixture of Slavs, Byzantines and Albanians, was a belief among the educated Europeans. Also the architects of the EU could not escape this belief. In this senses, they brought the clammy Greece into the European boat in 1980. The consequences can be admired every day.”

The idea that Greeks are not real Greeks is not new and it has not be invented by the WELT-journalist. It first came up by Jakob Philipp Fallmerayer a Tyrolean traveller, journalist, politician and historian of the 19th century who is “best known for his controversial (some even say racist) theories concerning the racial origins of the Greeks.”

Fallmerayer’s Greek theory

Fallmerayer devoted his scholarly activities to another Greek-speaking region of the Middle Ages, namely, the Morea – the peninsula of Peloponnese. In particular, he developed his theory that the ancient, “Hellenic“, population of the south Balkans had been replaced during the Migration Period by Slavic peoples (350-800 AD). A similar idea had already been proposed by the British traveler William Martin Leake, but Fallmerayer turned it into a theory, which he advocated with characteristic zeal.

The first volume of Fallmerayer’s Geschichte der Halbinsel Morea während des Mittelalters appeared in 1830, and he expressed his central theory in the foreword as follows:

“The race of the Hellenes has been wiped out in Europe. Physical beauty, intellectual brilliance, innate harmony and simplicity, art, competition, city, village, the splendour of column and temple — indeed, even the name has disappeared from the surface of the Greek continent…. Not the slightest drop of undiluted Hellenic blood flows in the veins of the Christian population of present-day Greece.”

This phenomenon was further interpreted by Fallmerayer as an indication of the potential of the “Slavic” nations to overwhelm the “Latin” and the “German”, a line of thought which he would later develop in his political writings. He further argued that the Great Powers who had supported the Greek War of Independence had been led by a “classical intoxication” to misjudge the character of the new Greek state.

However, Fallmerayer’s not so scientific theories were not purely scholarly. They were politically motivated. The scholar was a devoted supporter of Austria’s Realpolitik and the then empires desire to expand southwards into the Balkans and antagonize Russian interests in the area

Fallmeyer who was “considered one of the great 19th-century intellectuals in the German-speaking world” was a proven slavophobe. and his racist theories were a popular component of the Nazi Propaganda.

“Fallmerayer’s theory was popular as part of the Nazi propaganda in Axis occupied Greece (1941–1944) during World War II, when classically educated Nazi officers used it as an excuse to commit numerous atrocities against the Greek population.” (via wikipedia).

Greek DNA & WELT readers

But the WELT-journalist knows very well the daily’s audience and seems to speak right into the racist DNA of its readers. It is interesting and scary but not surprisingly at the same time, to see how many supposedly classically educated Germans in the comments section on the online edition express support of this racial theory claiming that the very ancient Greeks (Dorians, Ionians) were big, blond and blue-eyed, while the modern Greeks are mainly black-haired and brown-eyed.

Some Comments translated into English by KTG:

1. Especially the people living in Greece nowadays have absolute nothing to do with the ancient Greeks.

2. Dorians and Ionians were blond and blue-eyed, and big. Not to compare with the brown-eyed dark-haired Greeks of today.

3. Strangely, the Mycenaeans were black-haired and black- or brown-eyed brown. They were probably not relatives to the Ionians, right? !

4. No of course not. Dorians and Ionians were Germans, the Mycenaean were Slavs, the Minoans were Egyptians and I’m a Martian. Let’s ignore all genetic tests that prove the contrary.

5. The Mycenaeans were migrants from the North.

DNA-based EU eligibility

In a ironically soft criticism to DIE WELT article, the German edition of popular VICE website notes:

“.. to suggest that Greeks were somehow too “Turkish overbuilt” for the EU and that they had gambled away any claim to EU membership because of their racial purity that’s an interesting interpretation of European history.

But perhaps the author is just jealous because the Greeks, unlike his ancestors actually indeed got their One Thousand Year Reich.”
It must have been with certainty a huge moral relief for the “Kick Greeks out of the Euro” supporters to have created a contemporary scapegoat based on historically and scientifically questionable race purification theories. Never mind the racist aspect… Main-thing is, they can justify that Greece was always bad for Europe, while in contrast Germany was always good. Apart from the fact that Germany sent to death 16 millions in the WWI and 50-85 millions in the WWII, thus disturbing the German ideal of Heile Welt, the perfect idyllic world of tranquility and ignorance for a couple of years.
SIEG HEIL!!!...

I will definitely dedicate some of my remaining time on Earth to try and take Portugal away from this Nazi-minded European Union...
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Illusions about Greeks, and about ourselves

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Endovelico wrote:SIEG HEIL!!!...
Your reaction seems a bit over the top to me, but it's understandable. Berthold Seewald, Die Welt's redacteur for culture and history, is wrong on so many counts, one does not know where to begin. And I will not even take the pain of doing so. I would remember however that this is Seewald writing, in Germany's far-ri... sorry conservative newspaper. OK, the fact that this supposedly conservative newspaper can publish such a piece is disheartening.

The most distressing in my view is not the racist undertones, because no matter how shocking they are, they are definitly not representative of what most people in Germany think. On racism, this is Seewald speaking, and only him.

Most distressing is the whole rather obvious process of scapegoating. Even outside this preposterous "historical" piece, the ideas that Greece is responsible for all of this, that Greece is the source of the problems, then that if only Greece was no longer here everything would be easier.

While reality is that when the financial-economic crisis started in 2008, when structural issues linked to the existence of the euro were revealed, most vulnerable countries were stricken sooner. The fact that Greece was stricken the first shows it was the most vulnerable, which may have been of its own fault, or entirely not of its fault (in reality: a bit of both), the fact that Southern European countries were stricken afterwards show they were next in line. But expelling the most vulnerable country is not going to save the others, if structural issues are not dealt with! And if they are, then it's not necessary to expel anybody.

Scapegoating is not only wrong on the morals, it's also wrong on the facts, and a dangerous illusion to anybody expecting kicking the most vulnerable is going to make him more secure.
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Re: Illusions about Greeks, and about ourselves

Post by Alexis »

Alexis wrote:Berthold Seewald, Die Welt's redacteur for culture and history, is wrong on so many counts, one does not know where to begin. And I will not even take the pain of doing so.
OK, I will take the pain. Too irritated by this ignorant.

List of facts:

- Contrary to Seewald's contention, had liberal-minded Europeans of the 1820s not been passionate about Greek independence cause, it would not have prevented the following 1830 and 1848 revolutions. Culprit, if one is needed, is France, her revolution, her megalomaniac emperor and his laws being spread around Europe by way of arms. Consequences of which the Holy Alliance of 1815 could only hope to slow, not to suppress. More distant culprits are France, Britain and America, whose revolutions and other political upheavals reinforced and inspired one another into a political and intellectual movement that could not be suppressed, no matter whether one tried to spread it like Napoléon, or to hinder it

- In Seewald's view, revolutions of 1830 and 1848 were "destruction of Europe's order". I will leave him that opinion. I would only note that if he really thinks so, he should be distressed being German, for Germany was born as a result of 1848 revolution creating the desire for unity, while Bismarck used the 1870 war to actually create that unity. Incidentally, modern Germany is a more recent country than modern Greece

- In Seewald's view, consequences of Greece freeing itself of Turkish yoke with help of France, Britain and Russia, if those consequences were negative, would have to be by the fault of the Greeks. Absurd: one cannot fault a people for desiring to free itself from foreign domination, and if helping that nation was a fault, then it's on France, Britain and Russia

- Contrary to Seewald, Greeks are not presently preparing to "destroy Europe's order". They are negotiating with their creditors, which whatever opinion may have of their respective negotiation positions, is quite different from destruction of any order. Remembering that bankruptcy and default are risks of life, and possibilities for any creditor-debtor relationship

- Seewald is forgetting that Germany has defaulted on its debt more often than Greece during the 20th century. So if default is "destruction of order", then I'm afraid Germans are in no position to give lessons on this

- Speaking of bloodier versions of "destruction of order" than a mere default, I seem to remember that Germany has destroyed Europe's peace not once, but twice, in the 20th century. Seewald should not venture such accusations against Greece or any other European country, because he's in no position to

- On ethnicity, race and peoples, the fact is that most present day peoples are not ethnically identical to what their forefathers were two or three millenia ago. The only exception I could think of is Japanese people. As for the others, they all exchanged gametes in huge ways with other peoples. That is true for Greeks (who include indeed a large Slavic component which was assimilated), for French (Celtic basis, but with strong Germanic and Latin influxes, even before 19th century when that trend accelerated), even for Jews. And of course it's true of Germans who include a large Slavic component which was assimilated long ago (along with several others)
Being a member of a given people is not a question of ethnicity but of culture, birth and "willing to belong". Claiming that present Jews are no real Jews, present Greeks are no real Greeks, or present Germans are no real Germans... is just bollocks
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Re: Germany

Post by Endovelico »

Alexis,

Good posts. But this is what "Europe" has become. The European ideal was one of cooperation and solidarity among the many nations which had joyfully killed each other for centuries. Some of us thought there was an European civilization, and that on such a civilizational foundation we could build a true community of like minded peoples hoping for a more just and tolerant world. Well, those who thought so were definitely not many and "Europe" soon proved it did not exist. In fact there are - as there always were - three "Europes". The Mediterranean, the Northern and the Eastern ones. With France not knowing whether it belongs to the Mediterranean or the Northern - probably Occitania and Corsica belong to the former and the rest to the latter -, and Romania and Bulgaria not knowing whether they belong to the Mediterranean or to the Eastern "Europes". But the sad point is that there is no way one is going to build one "Europe" out of the three mentioned ones. We are completely alien to each other and cannot cooperate in almost anything, with the possible exception of science. To avoid disaster - or even war - the only solution is for each "Europe" to go its independent way. The Mediterranean Europe should create a true Union based on cooperation, solidarity, development and a focus on the southern hemisphere. Northern Europe will be increasingly attracted by the US and will end up being part of the American empire. As such it will gradually lose its European character. Eastern Europe will cozy up to Russia, whether it likes the idea or not. Is that bad? Probably not, as it will allow each "Europe" to preserve its identity. Thanks to massive emigration to America, Northern Europe is in fact more akin to the US than to Europe. And Eastern Europe has mostly a Slavic identity. Let's be friends, let's trade with each other, and let's get out of the way of each other.
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