On the Nature of Things | Forum

Endovelico wrote:

Iraq Turns Down US Abrams tanks in favor of T-72B
May 27, 2015 - By Aleksey Khlopotov
http://fortruss.blogspot.pt/2015/05/ira ... ks-in.html

Translated from Russian by J.Hawk

A ship unloading its cargo of T-72 tanks from Russia was spotted at the port of Um-Qasr. The tight wrapping makes it difficult to say what variant is being supplied to the Iraqi army, but most likely those are refurbished T-72B MBTs.

It would appear that the Iraqis have had enough of their US super-duper-tanks and don't want any more of them--too expensive, and not effective enough.

J.Hawk's Comment: The T-72B is a "third-generation" T-72, introduced in 1985 as an answer to the 120mm-gunned NATO tanks, including the M1A1 Abrams. As such it is greatly superior to the earlier versions of the T-72 (which is all that Iraq had up to now), as well as the early versions of the Abrams.

Brecher wrote:When do y'all think Mosul will be taken? I suspect that it will take at least another six months.

Iran strike sparks dispute with Iraq as fears of regional upheaval grow

Brecher wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:33 am

Endovelico wrote:

Iraq Turns Down US Abrams tanks in favor of T-72B
May 27, 2015 - By Aleksey Khlopotov
http://fortruss.blogspot.pt/2015/05/ira ... ks-in.html

Translated from Russian by J.Hawk

A ship unloading its cargo of T-72 tanks from Russia was spotted at the port of Um-Qasr. The tight wrapping makes it difficult to say what variant is being supplied to the Iraqi army, but most likely those are refurbished T-72B MBTs.

It would appear that the Iraqis have had enough of their US super-duper-tanks and don't want any more of them--too expensive, and not effective enough.

J.Hawk's Comment: The T-72B is a "third-generation" T-72, introduced in 1985 as an answer to the 120mm-gunned NATO tanks, including the M1A1 Abrams. As such it is greatly superior to the earlier versions of the T-72 (which is all that Iraq had up to now), as well as the early versions of the Abrams.

I suspect that the T-72 is far easier to maintain than the Abrams.

Doc wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 5:27 pm

Brecher wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:33 am

Endovelico wrote:

Iraq Turns Down US Abrams tanks in favor of T-72B
May 27, 2015 - By Aleksey Khlopotov
http://fortruss.blogspot.pt/2015/05/ira ... ks-in.html

Translated from Russian by J.Hawk

A ship unloading its cargo of T-72 tanks from Russia was spotted at the port of Um-Qasr. The tight wrapping makes it difficult to say what variant is being supplied to the Iraqi army, but most likely those are refurbished T-72B MBTs.

It would appear that the Iraqis have had enough of their US super-duper-tanks and don't want any more of them--too expensive, and not effective enough.

J.Hawk's Comment: The T-72B is a "third-generation" T-72, introduced in 1985 as an answer to the 120mm-gunned NATO tanks, including the M1A1 Abrams. As such it is greatly superior to the earlier versions of the T-72 (which is all that Iraq had up to now), as well as the early versions of the Abrams.

I suspect that the T-72 is far easier to maintain than the Abrams.

Yeah apparently they are disposable What could be easier to maintain than that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mZhQNta40w

Heracleum Persicum wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 6:33 pm

Doc wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 5:27 pm

Brecher wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:33 am

Endovelico wrote:

Iraq Turns Down US Abrams tanks in favor of T-72B
May 27, 2015 - By Aleksey Khlopotov
http://fortruss.blogspot.pt/2015/05/ira ... ks-in.html

Translated from Russian by J.Hawk

A ship unloading its cargo of T-72 tanks from Russia was spotted at the port of Um-Qasr. The tight wrapping makes it difficult to say what variant is being supplied to the Iraqi army, but most likely those are refurbished T-72B MBTs.

It would appear that the Iraqis have had enough of their US super-duper-tanks and don't want any more of them--too expensive, and not effective enough.

J.Hawk's Comment: The T-72B is a "third-generation" T-72, introduced in 1985 as an answer to the 120mm-gunned NATO tanks, including the M1A1 Abrams. As such it is greatly superior to the earlier versions of the T-72 (which is all that Iraq had up to now), as well as the early versions of the Abrams.

I suspect that the T-72 is far easier to maintain than the Abrams.

Yeah apparently they are disposable What could be easier to maintain than that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mZhQNta40w

With todays anti tank missiles, no tank has any chance .. that we see in Gaza, media says most Israeli casualty was with Merkava tanks

American arms have a very important downside .. they too expensive for what they do. With Chinese , Russian, Iranian , NK weapons now entering world market, spending money on US weapons is a waist of money.

Just look at drones, and all sort of missiles.
.

Doc wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 2:14 am

Heracleum Persicum wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 6:33 pm

Doc wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 5:27 pm

Brecher wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:33 am

Endovelico wrote:

Iraq Turns Down US Abrams tanks in favor of T-72B
May 27, 2015 - By Aleksey Khlopotov
http://fortruss.blogspot.pt/2015/05/ira ... ks-in.html

Translated from Russian by J.Hawk

A ship unloading its cargo of T-72 tanks from Russia was spotted at the port of Um-Qasr. The tight wrapping makes it difficult to say what variant is being supplied to the Iraqi army, but most likely those are refurbished T-72B MBTs.

It would appear that the Iraqis have had enough of their US super-duper-tanks and don't want any more of them--too expensive, and not effective enough.

J.Hawk's Comment: The T-72B is a "third-generation" T-72, introduced in 1985 as an answer to the 120mm-gunned NATO tanks, including the M1A1 Abrams. As such it is greatly superior to the earlier versions of the T-72 (which is all that Iraq had up to now), as well as the early versions of the Abrams.

I suspect that the T-72 is far easier to maintain than the Abrams.

Yeah apparently they are disposable What could be easier to maintain than that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mZhQNta40w

With todays anti tank missiles, no tank has any chance .. that we see in Gaza, media says most Israeli casualty was with Merkava tanks

American arms have a very important downside .. they too expensive for what they do. With Chinese , Russian, Iranian , NK weapons now entering world market, spending money on US weapons is a waist of money.

Just look at drones, and all sort of missiles.
.

Chinese Russian Iranian and NK tanks all tend to blow up a lot. Though I would agree that the Abrams takes more skill to maintain and they are more expensive. Not being disposable and all.

American Abrams Tanks Fail to Impact Ukraine Battlefield

Heracleum Persicum wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 2:35 am

Doc wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 2:14 am

Heracleum Persicum wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 6:33 pm

Doc wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 5:27 pm

Brecher wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:33 am

Endovelico wrote:

I suspect that the T-72 is far easier to maintain than the Abrams.

Yeah apparently they are disposable What could be easier to maintain than that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mZhQNta40w

With todays anti tank missiles, no tank has any chance .. that we see in Gaza, media says most Israeli casualty was with Merkava tanks

American arms have a very important downside .. they too expensive for what they do. With Chinese , Russian, Iranian , NK weapons now entering world market, spending money on US weapons is a waist of money.

Just look at drones, and all sort of missiles.
.

Chinese Russian Iranian and NK tanks all tend to blow up a lot. Though I would agree that the Abrams takes more skill to maintain and they are more expensive. Not being disposable and all.

Tanks have lost their importance .. with cheap drones position of the tank is fixed, cheap drones armed with anti tank missiles knock the tank out

Happens in Ukraine .. happened also in Gaza

And, importance for tanks is also the maintenance .. Western tanks, Abrams , Leopard 2 failed in Ukraine

https://defencesecurityasia.com/en/abra ... e_vignette

American Abrams Tanks Fail to Impact Ukraine Battlefield

With todays anti-tank missiles, no tank has any chance.

In Iran Iraq war, Iranian British made Chieftain tanks shah had bought, were worthless.
.

Western tanks, Abrams , Leopard 2 failed in Ukraine

Doc wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 5:26 pm
AS far as I know no Abrams have been destroyed in Ukraine. Bradley fighting vehicles are not particularly vulnerable to Rockets and missiles as well. The US has had weapons that could knock hand grenades out of the air since WWI. Bradley have up dated versions of those. Probably Abrams have them as well. Plus the Abrams depleted uranium armory is pretty hard to penetrate.

The anti-rocket systems can be pretty easily modified to take out drones as well.

https://www.military.com/video/bradley- ... ps-testing

Bradley also has anti-missile ant tow systems.

Heracleum Persicum wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2024 4:20 am

Doc wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 5:26 pm
AS far as I know no Abrams have been destroyed in Ukraine. Bradley fighting vehicles are not particularly vulnerable to Rockets and missiles as well. The US has had weapons that could knock hand grenades out of the air since WWI. Bradley have up dated versions of those. Probably Abrams have them as well. Plus the Abrams depleted uranium armory is pretty hard to penetrate.

The anti-rocket systems can be pretty easily modified to take out drones as well.

https://www.military.com/video/bradley- ... ps-testing

Bradley also has anti-missile ant tow systems.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/JBbFRfQ48bI


Main IDF causality in Gaza were the Merkava
.

Doc wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 5:29 am
War is a constant game of adaption HP. That is the way it has always been.

.

a video depicting the missile’s launch, its rapid ascent, and its trajectory toward an Israeli surveillance outpost situated on a cliff-side along the Lebanon-Israel border.

Heracleum Persicum wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:01 pm

Doc wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 5:29 am
War is a constant game of adaption HP. That is the way it has always been.

.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFRoTniJ1Qo

a video depicting the missile’s launch, its rapid ascent, and its trajectory toward an Israeli surveillance outpost situated on a cliff-side along the Lebanon-Israel border.

https://defence-blog.com/hezbollah-depl ... k-missile/

"Clone of Israeli missile"

.

Parodite wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 1:10 am The good news is that war more and more is relegated to unmanned flying objects like rockets and drones. No need to see eye to eye anymore anyways.

Iraq has lambasted the U.S. for the latest airstrikes in the western part of the country.

Baghdad warned the U.S. against the escalation of the crises in the Middle East region.

Iraq at the UNSC meeting said that U.S. attacks on its soil could result in a war-like situation.

The U.S. admitted that it did not give Iraq notice of strikes, despite earlier claims.

Doc wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 5:29 am
War is a constant game of adaption HP. That is the way it has always been.

.

We are in a drastically different world from the one most of us grew up in. This has been proven by the rapid escalation in the events in the middle east over the last six weeks.

No longer are we in a world where, essentially, the US run the show - and this has huge global implications - especially for Europe.

Heracleum Persicum wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 2:23 am

Doc wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 5:29 am
War is a constant game of adaption HP. That is the way it has always been.

.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7exjLSxKenE

Intelligent analysis.


It is who can adapt the fastest.


A massive historical shift has just taken place ..


Well, the clip says what HP sayin since long long time .. military means not military means used to be .. now with "cheap high tech" weapons big damage can be done, super power world leaders can be paralyzed


YEMEN comet to mind .. US, UK bombing and bombing , AND ? Houthie hittin ships every day. No need to sink a ship, Insurance premium exploding will prevent shipping companies into Red Sea.

We are in a drastically different world from the one most of us grew up in. This has been proven by the rapid escalation in the events in the middle east over the last six weeks.

No longer are we in a world where, essentially, the US run the show - and this has huge global implications - especially for Europe.

That is what Israel now will be agains .. many Arab groups, Palestinian and non Palestinians, will now confront Israel from all direction, not only direct military confrontation but dramatically driving up economic costs, insecurity etc etc , with little cost for them, many "non state players".
.

Doc wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 8:21 am
It is who can adapt the fastest.

David H. Petraeus, US Army general, Director of CIA, General George C. Marshall Award winner, top graduate of the U.S. Army Command and General Staff College class of 1983, assistant professor of international relations at the United States Military Academy

Ghassem Soleimani, left school at the age of 13, worked as "brick layer" to help repay his father's agricultural debts..

Soleimani and his Quds Force played a key role in helping the government of Iraq defeat the Islamic State in 2014–17

Personally led a commando operation that saved a Russian pilot after his jet was downed in enemy territory.

These actions were instrumental in the creation, by the end of the decade, of the "Axis of Resistance", a territorially-contiguous network of Iranian-backed militias and organizations in the Middle East stretching from Iraq (Popular Mobilization Forces) through Syria to Lebanon (Hezbollah), and also including the Palestinian Hamas and Islamic Jihad and Yemeni Houthi groups.

Soleimani was one of the masterminds, alongside Hezbollah's Imad Mughniyeh, of the creation and maintenance of Hamas' extensive tunnel warfare network in the Gaza Strip.