Cricket | A bit of a sticky wicket

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

Can't open the pdf right now but it's funny this pops up. Right now, there is a kerfuffle in baseball which touches those ol' saws like 'rising' fastballs AND doctoring the ball...

The fangraphs article: Trevor Bauer Might Have Conducted an Experiment

In case you’ve not been logged into your social-media account in the past several days, Indians pitcher Trevor Bauer has been outspoken about rampant use of pine tar (and other grip-aiding substances) in the game.

...As many in this audience are aware, the greater the fastball spin rate, the more “rise” effect the pitch has, the more it resists gravity, the more swing-and-miss it generates. More spin equals more swing-and-miss. That’s been proven by Driveline Baseball, where Bauer trains, and FanGraphs’ own Jeff Zimmerman.

There is incentive to add spin. And now with Statcast and its TrackMan Doppler radar component in all major-league stadiums, pitchers have had the ability to measure their spin to better understand some of the underpinnings behind their performance in game environments.

But spin is thought to be largely innate, a difficult skill to enhance. Generally, the more velocity a pitcher has, the more spin a pitcher is capable of producing. There is a relationship between spin and velocity, so if you can increase your velocity, you might be able to increase your spin rate. Spin declines with age like velocity, though not quite as sharply. An easier way to create spin is thought to be in doctoring the ball. Pine tar and other substances can improve grip, which is believed to increase spin rate, but there is little enforcement of the rule unless it is blatantly departed from. And to be fair, it seems like a rule difficult to enforce even if MLB wanted to. Would pitchers’ hands be swabbed after every inning?

At least one member of the Astros did not appreciate some implications made by Bauer. While the Astros lead baseball in four-seam fastball spin rate, it’s difficult to attribute that to any one cause. For example, a pitcher like Charlie Morton has dramatically increased his velocity, which should come with a spin-rate change. Some Astros pitchers have gained spin in Houston, but not all, as Eno Sarris found at The Athletic. Eno concluded that this is a difficult thing to study, and it is, as we are working with incomplete information. For instance, automated pitch-labeling is hardly perfect.

[noddy]

The canadians have started a proper T20 tournament which is interesting.

Each team has 4 local kids and then 8 "pro/semi pro/recently retired pro" players from the main cricket playing nations so the standard is reasonable - the 2 australian stars on suspension for ball tampering are playing in it - hah.

then they held it in a small ground with no chance of spectators during the soccer world cup, which probably wasnt the smartest idea for getting anyone to watch it.

speaking of world cups - the cricket one has disgraced itself by restricting it to the top 10 playing nations so their wont be any embarrassing knockouts that ruin the TV ratings and ticket sales.

no more fairy tale upsets of minnows kicking the big boys out of the tournament, its pathetic.

[noddy]

the carribean premier league just threw up a crazy hitting display.

104 runs in 42 balls - in baseball terms thats a home run every second ball for 40 pitches in a row.

f6tdkO5UoYQ

[noddy]

jqfrz79pyt221.jpg (54.54 KiB) Viewed 4425 times

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

jqfrz79pyt221.jpg

Why is that man about to hit selfie-guy?

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

the carribean premier league just threw up a crazy hitting display.

104 runs in 42 balls - in baseball terms thats a home run every second ball for 40 pitches in a row.

f6tdkO5UoYQ

that's a wonderful swing

[noddy]

jqfrz79pyt221.jpg

Why is that man about to hit selfie-guy?

the chubby guy in white with the bat is an ex international, semi retired famous player doing his last game in the local league.

the selfie guy has busted through the security to get the pic with his hero but it seem indian security guards dont muck around!

I just loved how incongruous the picture is , its very indian and very cricket at the same time - the game as a whole has had a bad run over the decades with drunk yobbos storming the field and potentially hurting the players.

they dont hit them big sticks in australia , they do crash tackle them to the ground and fine them many thousands of dollars, so cultural equivalence is there.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

We crash tackle them here, too. I think we tried to introduce tazing to the procedure but that went about as well as expected. We also arrest them, fine'em and ban them for life from attending that stadium.

I'm sorta digging this whole "hit'em with a stick" routine. Gets the point across.

[noddy]

I'm sorta digging this whole "hit'em with a stick" routine. Gets the point across.

Id prefer it to the stadium ban, which requires creepy levels of big brother to enforce.

---

its test cricket, australia vs india in my country at the moment and its been cracking games - normally we would win easily but the cheating scandal has banned 3 of our best batsmen, so its been quite even,

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

I'm sorta digging this whole "hit'em with a stick" routine. Gets the point across.

Id prefer it to the stadium ban, which requires creepy levels of big brother to enforce.

It's not like that- yet. It's more like they hall you before the judge, he says he'll throw the book at you if X,Y,Z and then the gatekeepers at the stadium get your mug shot, you can't by tickets directly...and you wait a few months before the whole thing blows over and everyone's forgotten it. [assuming it's not one of the serious incidents]

---

its test cricket, australia vs india in my country at the moment and its been cracking games - normally we would win easily but the cheating scandal has banned 3 of our best batsmen, so its been quite even,

Which cheating scandal is this? Is this repercussions from the one earlier in the year?

[noddy]

Which cheating scandal is this? Is this repercussions from the one earlier in the year?

yep, they put a full one year of tours ban in place so those guys wont be allowed to play until the next tour after the peak summer season.

outrageously over the top, in comparison, south africa and pakistan fought the system down to 1-2 game bans and then made the guys that ball tampered heros for their valiant efforts.

australia, playing the "faimly friendly" card decided that the official ban (3 games irc) was too lenient and added a 1 year ban on top as an example to young kids of the righteous virtues of being superior.

[noddy]

we have a bowler at the moment who shows up just how irrational commentary is.

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a guy that lopes in like he warming up, flicks his arm over lazily and hits 90-95 mph every time, swinging the ball in the air and often getting movement on the bounce aswell - capable of going straight through a professional batter and smashing the stumps , past the bat, past the body.

normally the pro batters never get out in this manner, you need to get them out on the catch, it takes the special knack of moving the ball late in the travel time to trick their reflexes, if the ball moves early they adjust and smash it.

the media and alot of the fanbase is constantly against this guy for not trying hard enough, he just doesnt look the part, its all too easy for him, despite the fact that statistically he is ahead of the best of the best at this stage of his career.

he has so much talent, folks get angry at him for not just wining the game straight away, they consider it a given he will get the batter out when he "tries"

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

Why do the bowlers not wear hats?

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

the media and alot of the fanbase is constantly against this guy for not trying hard enough, he just doesnt look the part, its all too easy for him, despite the fact that statistically he is ahead of the best of the best at this stage of his career.

I know all about this sort of thing
This is a weird cycle that these players get trapped in-

The media makes a big fuss to fill up columns/air time, the fans react and some adopt the position, the media doubles down because it's good ratings and on and on- blown way out of proportion and so detached from reality, it's delusional.

And some athletes get trapped by it, and others get a completely free pass.

[noddy]

Why do the bowlers not wear hats?

its not explicitly banned however its the done thing, as a hat that falls off while running in creates a dead ball and a batsman is also allowed to call dead ball on anything competing for his vision in the eyeline to the ball.

sometimes slow bowlers will get away with wearing them but its generally considered a bad move.

also sweat bands, watches and other shiny things on the arm fall into the eyeline distraction.

pro batters dont actually track the fast ball in cricket, they watch the release, then predict the bounce point and track from that point only , so they need to pick up the ball out of the background again , hence the distraction thing.

baseball doesnt have the bounce but i suspect something simmilar goes on in the pro heads on fast balls - identify the trajectory and set yourself for that shot as early as possible, the difference being in cricket the ball can deviate widely on the bounce so a reset is also required.

amateurs and tailenders who dont have this trick builtin, because they havent experienced proper fast balls, are comically out of position as they try and track the ball the whole way and react too late.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

Why do the bowlers not wear hats?

its not explicitly banned however its the done thing, as a hat that falls off while running in creates a dead ball and a batsman is also allowed to call dead ball on anything competing for his vision in the eyeline to the ball.

sometimes slow bowlers will get away with wearing them but its generally considered a bad move.

also sweat bands, watches and other shiny things on the arm fall into the eyeline distraction.

pro batters dont actually track the fast ball in cricket, they watch the release, then predict the bounce point and track from that point only , so they need to pick up the ball out of the background again , hence the distraction thing.

baseball doesnt have the bounce but i suspect something simmilar goes on in the pro heads on fast balls - identify the trajectory and set yourself for that shot as early as possible, the difference being in cricket the ball can deviate widely on the bounce so a reset is also required.

amateurs and tailenders who dont have this trick builtin, because they havent experienced proper fast balls, are comically out of position as they try and track the ball the whole way and react too late.

Yes, baseball hitting isn't that different.

I didn't think about the hat falling off. And if the batter is allowed to call a dead ball on impediment, what is stopping a batsmen from claiming it when it's advantageous?

There are rules against watches and rings obviously. Also gloves and cleats on a pitcher have stricter uniform rules than the rest of the fielders.

Line of sight differs from stadium to stadium, and even time of day. Every stadium now has line of sight considerations built in- they no longer put seating in those parts of centerfield which would impede the average batter's eye line. And the area itself is usually black or a dark color backdrop. Mid-20th century stadium designs could be brutal on summer days when the crowd was in mostly white shirts and the pitcher's arm would tend to blend in and make it look as if the ball is coming from the stands.

It's still not perfect as I can think of all sorts of testimony of situations which defeat the best laid plans, and sometimes teams will try to remedy it on the fly (in new stadiums) and then aim for some reconstruction the following off-season.

I remember a few years ago that a certain team, which I can't remember, was accused of sabotaging visiting teams by placing a series of lights (or something like that) when they would bat. I think the league fined the team but mostly swept it under the rug as that's not the publicity they want and I'm sure every team has something going on...just not as egregious.

As for the pitchers themselves, the official rule book carries some stiff penalties but in practice, 99% of the time, the umpire will just ask the player to remove or hide whatever is impeding the players' eye sight. Usually it's a necklace, and the player just tucks it beneath his uniform. On extremely rare occasions, they've been forced to change cleats and gloves mid-game after complaints from the other team.

Of course, the complaints usually come as little psychological games to throw the pitcher's rhythm and head off a bit, to annoy the other team for whatever reason or to buy some time....

...typing this out makes me think that it's a huge difference to be able to bend the arm from a stationary position while throwing the ball- as the unbent motion keeps the arm closer to the torso of the body, so all sorts of bodily distractions (be it a hat or necklace or cleats) are a bigger factor than what you usually have in baseball.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

Just as an example, this is Jordan Montgomery:

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He's currently recovering from a torn elbow ligament placing his career/future effectiveness in jeopardy. But the 1 season he pitched in the majors, he finished 2nd or 3rd in the rookie of the year voting, because he was effective. Before his injury, the hope was that his ceiling would be as a front-end starter (2nd or 3rd as opposed to the ace of the staff) and he was on his way.

But it wasn't because of his stuff- his fastball was pretty straight and in the low 90s, and his other pitches, by themselves, were pretty average.

What made him better than average was his extreme overhead pitching motion. He is a true 12 o'clock pitcher, and every pitch came from the same starting point, which is rarer still. All the little discrepancies that a professional batter would pick up on aren't there, and because of the motion, the batters say the arm/ball blends in with the crowd; the sky; his hat...they don't pick up until later, making his stuff play better.

So add to that 4 average pitches, and at his best, it becomes a real guessing game with hitters.

==========

Point being that this is nowhere near the motion of how a bowler operates in cricket, but this is probably as close as it gets in terms of arm release/visual obstructions.

[noddy]

batsmen do call deadball just to annoy the bowler or slow down the game but they can only do it once or maybe twice a innings before the umpire will decide they are abusing it and no longer indulge it.

that guy of yours does look more like a cricketer - being tall makes the effect even worse.

your thoughts on the vertical arm are correct and this is compounded by the fact the cricket ball is a tad heavier and harder than the baseball and its legal to bowl at the body and head, it can be quite a painful game when the bowlers are worked up, so its considered dangerous if the batsman loses sight.

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on the flipside, some fast bowlers do use round arm and thusly have a deadly yorker (ball at the toes that goes under the bat) but its rare because it has several bad effects and only 1 good effect.

you lose the ablity to make it jump off a good length - extra wrist action on the vertical ball can surprise a batter who thinks its waist high but instead its chin high.
you lose the ability to move it both ways in the air.

the angles mean the difference between a good ball or a ball thats too short or too long are much finer so its easier to bowl bad, yet this also means its easier to surprise the batsmen with the yorker for the same reasons - the batter cant tell the exact length it will land at because of the wide and low arm angles.

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[noddy]

https://elodieunderglass.tumblr.com/pos ... cket-to-me

The man from Yorkshire roars potently, like a bull seeing another bull. There might be words in his roar, but otherwise it is primal and sizzling.

“That isn’t straight,” the poet says. “It’s silly.”

“What the genuflecting genuflect,” you say out loud at this point.

“Shh,” says the person who likes cricket. They listen, tensely. Something in the distance makes a very small “thwack,” like a baby dropping an egg.

“Was that a doosra or a googly?” the villain asks.

“IT’S A WRONG ‘UN,” roars the Yorkshireman in his wrath. A powerful insult has been offered. They begin to scuffle.

I might point out that if a finger spinner bowls a wrongun its called a doosra but if a wrist spinner bowls a wrongun its called the googly.

which clears that up.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

As far as the ball-doctoring suspensions go- I'm of two minds.

On one hand, it seems more than excessive compared to the "crime", the family excuse doesn't really jive.

On the other, my enjoyment of sports- including baseball- has been ruined by certain types of cheating and the excuse-makers who hijack a sport, and it has made me appreciate draconian measures of preservation- once laxity creeps in, it's done for good.

There are always ulterior motives, and if the motive from the governing body is to keep control of practices, I find myself leaning towards that being a good thing, prior experiences considered.

I keep going back to baseball because it's a frame of reference, but ball-doctoring is a hallowed tradition- definitely cheating and penalized- but more of a misdemeanor type thing (and it's become rarer as game balls are ever more frequently swapped out, so a lot of the old practices aren't possible anymore.)

And it's the type of cheating, in terms of sports-entertainment that doesn't really bother me. It is a bit of creative, crafty mischief or cunning adding to the performance. It takes a bit of ingenuity. Just like sign-stealing or picking up on tells from the other team.

Yet, at the same time, the batsmen-bowler relation in cricket is more important than the hitter-pitcher relation in baseball. If someone doctors a baseball to get a few more centimeters on their slider; it's a big deal in context of the moment, but not really in context of the sport- which is a bat&ball game focused on fielding/sprinting despite the long trend which will eventually change that completely.

Having the batsmen-bowler as the centerpiece, and including a much more expansive set of options on how to defeat the guy with the bat, it does, to this outsider, begin to seem much more unseemly than mischievous.

edit: and adding to it, something I have trouble appreciating in context, is the more complicated nature of cricket associations/leagues being intertwined as an international competition. That wrinkle obviously makes sense to me, but what reference do I have? Maybe professional hockey?

As pointed out in the baseball thread, with a bit of fun to its provincialism, Major League Baseball is world baseball. It's the dominant form of international play and any potential rivals clearly fall beneath it in the pecking order. Ruling the roost makes things like a discrepancy in punishment completely foreign to me.

The Japanese NPB, is the closest-- and I'm pretty sure afforded recognition as a "major league"-- but it's very much somewhere between Major League Baseball and Triple-A level baseball, and it's treated as such, to the point that in international competition, they will (mostly) defer to American standards.

[noddy]

As far as the ball-doctoring suspensions go- I'm of two minds.

On one hand, it seems more than excessive compared to the "crime", the family excuse doesn't really jive.

I wish that were true, however their is a context of 20 years of australia being the dominant team against what is effectively a bunch of 3rd world, post colonial countries and the .. cough.. politics involved in white mans burden and sometimes odious superiority complexes from us and now them.

you can imagine pakistan, india, south africa playing baseball might add some political flavours to how things can play out.

On the other, my enjoyment of sports- including baseball- has been ruined by certain types of cheating and the excuse-makers who hijack a sport, and it has made me appreciate draconian measures of preservation- once laxity creeps in, it's done for good.

There are always ulterior motives, and if the motive from the governing body is to keep control of practices, I find myself leaning towards that being a good thing, prior experiences considered.

I keep going back to baseball because it's a frame of reference, but ball-doctoring is a hallowed tradition- definitely cheating and penalized- but more of a misdemeanor type thing (and it's become rarer as game balls are ever more frequently swapped out, so a lot of the old practices aren't possible anymore.)

And it's the type of cheating, in terms of sports-entertainment that doesn't really bother me. It is a bit of creative, crafty mischief or cunning adding to the performance. It takes a bit of ingenuity. Just like sign-stealing or picking up on tells from the other team.

Yet, at the same time, the batsmen-bowler relation in cricket is more important than the hitter-pitcher relation in baseball. If someone doctors a baseball to get a few more centimeters on their slider; it's a big deal in context of the moment, but not really in context of the sport- which is a bat&ball game focused on fielding/sprinting despite the long trend which will eventually change that completely.

Having the batsmen-bowler as the centerpiece, and including a much more expansive set of options on how to defeat the guy with the bat, it does, to this outsider, begin to seem much more unseemly than mischievous.
.

cheating to win via boundary pushing is a lesser crime to most of us, especially due to the following.

their is another layer to this, which thankfully has been dealt with on the sly in the backroom negotiations - which is the balance between bat and ball and the thrill of good fast bowling being lost in the modern game.

simplisticly their are 3 flavours of pitch -

* green and bouncy (aus, sa, nz, eng) which favours fast bowlers with movement, speed and surprise
* clay and crumbly (india, sri lanka, pakistan) which favour spinners and medium pacers with big revolutions on the ball
* flat spongey roads (short form cricket) which favour the batters and remove many of the skills of the bowlers from the game.

short form cricket with aggressive batting has this third type because the balance is somewhat still in place due to attacking batsmen taking bigger risks.

long form cricket, in which this ball tampering occurs, is meant to have the bowler favoured pitches so the batsmen need more skill to survive and plays a more defensive game however in the last 10 year greedy idiots, appealing to casual viewers and longer games have been putting dead pitches in and ruining the entire thing, mega scores and batting records falling all over the place.

.... which has triggered bowlers pushing tampering boundaries beyond the normal and this entire mess...

this season in australia has seen a return to green and bouncy pitches, and thrilling, scary, high skill bowling, so all is not lost, they did pay attention.

casuals love the big hitting, long term fans of the game love top skill bowling and batters good enough to survive and thrive against it - "flat track bully" is a derogatory term for guys who only bat well when the pitch is neutered.

edit: and adding to it, something I have trouble appreciating in context, is the more complicated nature of cricket associations/leagues being intertwined as an international competition. That wrinkle obviously makes sense to me, but what reference do I have? Maybe professional hockey?

As pointed out in the baseball thread, with a bit of fun to its provincialism, Major League Baseball is world baseball. It's the dominant form of international play and any potential rivals clearly fall beneath it in the pecking order. Ruling the roost makes things like a discrepancy in punishment completely foreign to me.

The Japanese NPB, is the closest-- and I'm pretty sure afforded recognition as a "major league"-- but it's very much somewhere between Major League Baseball and Triple-A level baseball, and it's treated as such, to the point that in international competition, they will (mostly) defer to American standards.

yah, as i mentioned before cricket is spread amongst all the post colonial countries so the politics is amplified beyond anything you could experience in baseball - soccer is perhaps closest due to the mix of rich and poor countries - hockey and rugby happen at a lower scale of economics.

at the end of the day, India has the biggest league *now* while England and Australia used to have this dominance, their is alot of posturing and holier than thou going on, I could spend days explaining all the context and still miss most of it.

[Typhoon]

Australia had their wickets handed to them in the Test Match between India and Australia.

Apparently this is the first time India has won this event in Australia in some 80 years of the event.

[noddy]

yes, the bhenchods (*) are unstoppable at the moment.


(*) cricket has taken to using Hindi swear words because the Anglo ones are banned and the whiny middle class in English speaking countries doesnt notice them

[Simple Minded]

yes, the bhenchods (*) are unstoppable at the moment.


(*) cricket has taken to using Hindi swear words because the Anglo ones are banned and the whiny middle class in English speaking countries doesnt notice them

Brilliant. Our betters in America do that to us all the time. Left, Right, Liveral, Cuckservative, Nazi, racist.......

"A hopeless romantic received a harsh lesson about love after he proudly flaunted a T-shirt from his ex-girlfriend. The man thought it was “beautiful” that his ex gave him the shirt with the words “BHENCHOD,” according to his friend on social media.Nov 2, 2017
Man thinks T-shirt gifted by ex-girlfriend means 'I love you'
https://nypost.com/2017/.../man-thinks- ... -love-you/

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define. ... m=bhenchod

[noddy]

"A hopeless romantic received a harsh lesson about love after he proudly flaunted a T-shirt from his ex-girlfriend. The man thought it was “beautiful” that his ex gave him the shirt with the words “BHENCHOD,” according to his friend on social media.Nov 2, 2017
Man thinks T-shirt gifted by ex-girlfriend means 'I love you'
https://nypost.com/2017/.../man-thinks- ... -love-you/

haha thats awesome

their are a few 'chod variations, with chod being f*cker - madarchod with madar == mother is also common, as is a full array of animals, so listen for any "chod" ness when eating indian.

chutiya is cnut, but australian rules and not american rules, a general purpose "bastard!" in usage.

the nice bit is they come out with the accents in the right place to become drop in replacements.