Ibrahim wrote:Marcus wrote:Ibrahim wrote:So in the few instances in which you posted debatable sources people didn't immediately agree with them, therefore you no longer feel the need to attempt to support your claims. Sounds airtight.
A number of the people on this small forum are racists. That's simply reality. I'm the bigot for identifying racism and dishonesty? A feeble excuse for your own acceptance of those views.
Then keep your mouth shut and don't insult me in your banter with m_g. You started this first with your false claims about Islam which you couldn't support, and second by insulting me personally. You can't accept responsibility for your actions any more than you can support your arguments.
Again, no, that's not the case. It isn't that you disagree with contrary sources, you dismiss them out-of-hand.
Ridiculous. For example I explained, in detail, why that C.S. Lewis quote was logically flawed, you just spammed "ironclad, irrefutable" for pages and pages like a child. Or when you and your sock account started telling me not to worry about what Rushdoony actually said in his book, you know him personally and he's a great guy.
As for forum members who are liars and racists, that's your opinion.
In most cases its demonstrable.
"Keep [my] mouth shut"? Gotta do better than that . . .
It doesn't matter to me either way, but if
you don't want conflict then don't antagonize people.
Thanks for the post, Ibs
In most cases its demonstrable.
Especially so in the case of pompous liars afflicted with Best of Peoples delusion...
but if you don't want conflict then don't antagonize people.
Likewise Ibs........... Likewise..........
Note:
Worth noting that it can be VERY hard not to offend some Muslims.
Remembering that per the Muslim manual of Fiqh,
The Reliance of the Traveler, it is considered slanderous to tell the TRUTH about a Muslim if that truth is damaging.........
Online Reliance of the Traveller
http://www.shafiifiqh.com/maktabah/reli ... veller.pdf
From:
About Us
The aim of Shafiifiqh.com, a part of the Shafi’i Institute, is to revive and support the the Sunni Islamic jurisprudence of the guild (madhhab) of Imam Muhammad ibn Idris Ash-Shafi’i (May Allah have mercy upon him and be please with him). This support includes, but is not limited to, answering the questions and/or doubts that followers of the Shafi’i school may have in respect to Islamic jurisprudence (fiqh). Shafiifiqh.com was created to help fill the void of Sunni (traditional) knowledge in western languages. Currently we have a Dutch (Nederlands) site, and we have translated fatawa into french too (
www.shafiifiqh.com/francais). We are looking forward to provide fatwa in other languages in the future too, insha’Allah/God willing.
http://www.shafiifiqh.com
Comments and excerpts from Amazon.com where the book is available in printed form for purchase
Slander, in the Western context, is the utterance of false charges or misrepresentations which defame and damage another's reputation. Within the Sunni Islam tradition, slander means mentioning anything concerning a person that that person would dislike. The truth, then, becomes slanderous when an author or source mentions "anything concerning a person that that person would dislike."
The Reliance of the Traveller further discusses slander. "Slander means to mention anything concerning a person that he would dislike, whether about his body, religion, everyday life, self, disposition, property, son, father, wife, servant, turban, garment, gait, movements, smiling, dissolution, frowning, cheerfulness, or anything else connected with him." (p.730) 'Do you know what slander is?' They answered, 'Allah and His Messenger know best.' He said, 'It is to mention of your brother that which he would dislike.' Someone asked, 'What if he is as I say?' And he replied, 'If he is as you say, you have slandered him, and if not, you have calumniated him. The Muslim is the brother of the Muslim. He does not betray him, lie to him, or hang back from coming to his aid. All of the Muslim is inviolable to his fellow Muslim: his reputation, his property, his blood. Godfearingness is here (the heart). It is sufficiently wicked for someone to belittle his fellow Muslim." (p.730.) This passage has implications for objective assessments of those who do wrong. It may be "improper" to tell the truth and say they have done wrong.
http://www.amazon.ca/Reliance-Traveller ... 0915957728
Also worth noting that lying is VERY much allowed.......
Lying is permitted in war, settling disagreements, and a man talking with his wife or she with him. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable by lying but not telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory. (p. 745)
"When, for example, one is concealing a Muslim from an oppressor who asks where he is, it is obligatory to lie about him being hidden. Or when a person deposits an article with one for safekeeping and an oppressor wanting to appropriate it inquires about it, it is obligatory to lie about having concealed it, for if one informs him about the article and he then seizes it, one is financially liable (to the owner) to cover the article's cost."(p. 745) Law Enforcement Investigations looking for people or evidence may find this problematic.
"Whether the purpose is war, settling a disagreement, or gaining sympathy of a victim legally entitled to retaliate against one so that he will forbear to do so; it is not unlawful to lie when any of these aims can be obtained through lying. But it is religiously more precautionary in all cases to employ words that give a misleading impression, meaning to intend by one's words something that is literally true, in respect to which one is not lying, while the outward purport of the words deceives the hearer, though even if one does not have such an intention and merely lies without intending anything else, it is not unlawful in the above circumstances." (p.745)
"Lying is permissible when there is a legitimate desired end. And the legitimate desired end may be a personal one." "One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie." (p.746)
Legal provisions for Giving a Misleading Impression (Book R, Section 10 Giving a Misleading Impression) is contained on page 748. "Giving a misleading impression is among the most important topics, being frequently met with and often abused. It befits us to examine the matter closely, and whoever learns of it should reflect upon it and apply it." "Giving a misleading impression means to utter an expression that ostensibly implies one meaning while intending a different meaning the expression may also have, one that contradicts the ostensive purport. It is a kind of deception. It often takes the form of the speaker intending a specific referent while the hearer understands a more general one, as when a person asks a householder, "Is So and so here?" to which the householder, intending the space between himself and the questioner rather than the space inside the house, replies, "He is not here." "Scholars say that there is no harm in giving a misleading impression if required by an interest countenanced by Sacred Law that is more important than not misleading the person being addressed, or if there is a pressing need which could not otherwise be fulfilled except through lying."
Reliance of the Traveller gives insight to a wide variety of problems confronting the current era of law enforcement and a noticeable skewing of the truth in Islamic scholarship and news coverage.
http://www.amazon.ca/Reliance-Traveller ... 0915957728
The page numbers above are not the same as in the online edition but the material about lying is available in the online edition though not text searchable because of the type of pdf used.
For the love of G_d, consider you & I may be mistaken.
Orion Must Rise: Killer Space Rocks Coming Our way
The Best Laid Plans of Men, Monkeys & Pigs Oft Go Awry
Woe to those who long for the Day of the Lord, for It is Darkness, Not Light