The tendency of tech society is tyranny

[Typhoon]

Yeah, it's easier to create a 'last man' rather than a new man.......

I can see a problem, i'm trying to ascribe a rationale to a subjective impression of attitude and POV. I'd have to catalog dozens of examples of low resolution assertions on a number of different topics and apply them to a proposition that makes sense and promotes an argument.

Understood.

Hey...... that's science. I have nothing against science, I have a problem with science being used as a cudgel in a lazy manner to make points and shut down dissents.....'>.......

Understood. I completely agree with you.

Typically, in my experience. the people making such claims know next to nothing about science, rather they are members of a new secular religion - ideology some have called scientism with scientists-activists as the new prophets, peer-review is cited as proof as scripture was/is cited as proof by religious fundamentalists, and the opinions of scientists, the new authority figures, are held to be infallible as those of the RC Pope were/are held to be by believers.

The shutting down of scientific dissent is reminiscent of Lysenkoism. I call it Mannism, in honour of Michael "Hid the Decline" Mann who sets the activist cancel culture mob on any scientist who dares questions his and his fellow doomsayers apocalyptic man-made climate change predictions.

[Typhoon]

First Things | Replace the Elite

Mostly agree with the diagnosis, not so convinced about the prescription.

[Miss_Faucie_Fishtits]

I think Tucker Carlson has a better handle on it. Like many of the pundits I respect and admire he recognises the ascendancy of politics over other forms of discourse and that includes those that make and control the technology.......

Someone who worked for State Highway Department in the state of Maine once told me that the majority of fatalities on main roads occurred when someone veers off on his side of the road into the gravel and then whips the wheel in the opposite direction and hits a tree. And I thought that’s the clearest metaphor for American politics I’ve ever heard. It’s overcorrection. You ignore a problem and then you go all in and fixing it and create a brand-new set of problems. I mean, that really is the whole story right there. It’s true of everything.....

....And that’s true of a lot of different systems, that it certainly has become true over the decades of American conservatism, where, you know, you read, Road to Serfdom, you read Hayek or von Mises. You attend a couple lectures at Cato and you think you’re a libertarian and you got the world figured out as kind of this seamless theory of everything. Next thing you know, you’re arguing to privatize the sidewalks and you never pause to ask the basic questions like the most basic which is ‘do people really want this?’ Which is another way of asking, does my solution comport with human nature whose features are unchanging? That’s all I’m saying. That’s what I’m saying. Just take people into account when you make systems designed for people.

The Spec [US]| Tucker Carlson: ‘We aren’t very good at talking about death’

Read the whole essay. His image in print (or podcast) is different from the one projected on FOX News. He has more insight and appreciation for systems theory than your average bear. And he's willing to dispassionately regard the strengths and stratagems available to the opposition......

tNflR2Ia7Hc

[Typhoon]

I think Tucker Carlson has a better handle on it. Like many of the pundits I respect and admire he recognises the ascendancy of politics over other forms of discourse and that includes those that make and control the technology.......

Someone who worked for State Highway Department in the state of Maine once told me that the majority of fatalities on main roads occurred when someone veers off on his side of the road into the gravel and then whips the wheel in the opposite direction and hits a tree. And I thought that’s the clearest metaphor for American politics I’ve ever heard. It’s overcorrection. You ignore a problem and then you go all in and fixing it and create a brand-new set of problems. I mean, that really is the whole story right there. It’s true of everything.....

....And that’s true of a lot of different systems, that it certainly has become true over the decades of American conservatism, where, you know, you read, Road to Serfdom, you read Hayek or von Mises. You attend a couple lectures at Cato and you think you’re a libertarian and you got the world figured out as kind of this seamless theory of everything. Next thing you know, you’re arguing to privatize the sidewalks and you never pause to ask the basic questions like the most basic which is ‘do people really want this?’ Which is another way of asking, does my solution comport with human nature whose features are unchanging? That’s all I’m saying. That’s what I’m saying. Just take people into account when you make systems designed for people.

The Spec [US]| Tucker Carlson: ‘We aren’t very good at talking about death’

Read the whole essay. His image in print (or podcast) is different from the one projected on FOX News. He has more insight and appreciation for systems theory than your average bear. And he's willing to dispassionately regard the strengths and stratagems available to the opposition......

. . .

Good transcript. Perceptive.

[noddy]

+ 1 on that - nothing conservative about destroying all the public shared spaces, as far as im concerned.

[Typhoon]

Spiked | Google's attack on media freedom

ZeroHedge and the Federalist have been punished by Google for failing to delete offensive comments.

[Simple Minded]

......

[Typhoon]

Tablet | America’s New Corporate Tyranny

Imagine that you are a resident in a low-population county in 1950. You run afoul of the small group of families who are effectively in charge. Your political and legal rights are unimpaired. You are free to vote and you are free to sue in municipal and county and state courts. The police treat you with unfailing courtesy and respect.

But strange things start to happen. The only newspaper in the county refuses to take ads for your business. The only bank in the county announces that it is closing your account and calling in your mortgage. Your car breaks down and the only garage and service shop in the county refuses to repair it. The only general store in the county refuses your patronage and the few restaurants in the county turn you away at the door. After you lose your business to the newspaper advertising boycott, you try to get a job, but discover that you have been blacklisted by all of the employers in the county. Nobody will hire you.

Are you free, in this scenario, just because there is no official interference with your voting rights and your civil rights? Private power is power, no less than government power. You can be immobilized, impoverished, humiliated, tormented, and perhaps driven to suicide by hostile businesses and banks in an otherwise functioning liberal democracy, just as surely as by the police or military in a dictatorship

.

[Simple Minded]

Tablet | America’s New Corporate Tyranny

Imagine that you are a resident in a low-population county in 1950. You run afoul of the small group of families who are effectively in charge. Your political and legal rights are unimpaired. You are free to vote and you are free to sue in municipal and county and state courts. The police treat you with unfailing courtesy and respect.

But strange things start to happen. The only newspaper in the county refuses to take ads for your business. The only bank in the county announces that it is closing your account and calling in your mortgage. Your car breaks down and the only garage and service shop in the county refuses to repair it. The only general store in the county refuses your patronage and the few restaurants in the county turn you away at the door. After you lose your business to the newspaper advertising boycott, you try to get a job, but discover that you have been blacklisted by all of the employers in the county. Nobody will hire you.

Are you free, in this scenario, just because there is no official interference with your voting rights and your civil rights? Private power is power, no less than government power. You can be immobilized, impoverished, humiliated, tormented, and perhaps driven to suicide by hostile businesses and banks in an otherwise functioning liberal democracy, just as surely as by the police or military in a dictatorship

.

Excellent article. Makes sense to me. Thanks for posting.

[Typhoon]

Tablet | America’s New Corporate Tyranny

Imagine that you are a resident in a low-population county in 1950. You run afoul of the small group of families who are effectively in charge. Your political and legal rights are unimpaired. You are free to vote and you are free to sue in municipal and county and state courts. The police treat you with unfailing courtesy and respect.

But strange things start to happen. The only newspaper in the county refuses to take ads for your business. The only bank in the county announces that it is closing your account and calling in your mortgage. Your car breaks down and the only garage and service shop in the county refuses to repair it. The only general store in the county refuses your patronage and the few restaurants in the county turn you away at the door. After you lose your business to the newspaper advertising boycott, you try to get a job, but discover that you have been blacklisted by all of the employers in the county. Nobody will hire you.

Are you free, in this scenario, just because there is no official interference with your voting rights and your civil rights? Private power is power, no less than government power. You can be immobilized, impoverished, humiliated, tormented, and perhaps driven to suicide by hostile businesses and banks in an otherwise functioning liberal democracy, just as surely as by the police or military in a dictatorship

.

Excellent article. Makes sense to me. Thanks for posting.

The one counterargument that I have been able to think of is "Why not move to another county?".
Aside from the obvious rebuttal, "Why should one have to do so?" when no crime has been committed.
This may have been possible, if difficult, in the 1950's.
However, today with social media and vast databases pursing a target and repeatedly doxxing them is far too easy.

[noddy]

The one counterargument that I have been able to think of is "Why not move to another county?".
Aside from the obvious rebuttal, "Why should one have to do so?" when no crime has been committed.
This may have been possible, if difficult, in the 1950's.
However, today with social media and vast databases pursing a target and repeatedly doxxing them is far too easy.

the other argument is that the internet never was a private place and all that narrative was childish dribble.

you cant argue the same way in public spaces you do in private spaces, never have been able to, never will be able to.

some folks are just getting a learning curve on what those differences always where.

[noddy]

id rather it wasnt that way but if everything is recorded and that record is used against you.

... sounds like a public space to me.

[Simple Minded]

The one counterargument that I have been able to think of is "Why not move to another county?".
Aside from the obvious rebuttal, "Why should one have to do so?" when no crime has been committed.
This may have been possible, if difficult, in the 1950's.
However, today with social media and vast databases pursing a target and repeatedly doxxing them is far too easy.

the other argument is that the internet never was a private place and all that narrative was childish dribble.

you cant argue the same way in public spaces you do in private spaces, never have been able to, never will be able to.

some folks are just getting a learning curve on what those differences always where.

Agree.

The other aspects I think are generational/cultural. In the olden days whiners were told to "Grow up!" Speech you did not like was considered "Free Speech," not "Hate Speech." Anyone who did not see the adoption of the Hate Speech mentality as an invitation to public lynching wasn't paying attention.

Now. both public whining and dog-piling on the "offenders" are seen as signs of superior virtue, rather than emotional insecurity and immaturity.

Virtual stoning in the public square for people who don't want to be card carrying conservative Christians.

Just cause you're raised in a white collar household in the first world doesn't mean you can't have invisible war wounds and crosses to bear (bare?).

[noddy]

The other aspects I think are generational/cultural. In the olden days whiners were told to "Grow up!" Speech you did not like was considered "Free Speech," not "Hate Speech." Anyone who did not see the adoption of the Hate Speech mentality as an invitation to public lynching wasn't paying attention.

Now. both public whining and dog-piling on the "offenders" are seen as signs of superior virtue, rather than emotional insecurity and immaturity.

yeh, I dont belive this the way you do.

my generation was absolutely raised sticks an stones, we are the leading edge of the curve towards less violence in society that starts in the 70's

i expect little from humans, I dont think we are much above poo flinging monkeys, I am pleasantly surprised when i discover any different, ive seen my own poo flinging in the mirror, its just not something i take seriously - unless im feeling down.

my dads generation - their are hard limits to how much abuse and disrespect you can give them before they punch you in the head.

none of those old boys tolerated aggressive behaviour from anyone, by all reports the generation before that, even more prone to settlings things the primal ways

in the grand scheme of things I dont expect anyone to sit around taking abuse like a punching bag, the only difference is how they swing back.

[Simple Minded]

The other aspects I think are generational/cultural. In the olden days whiners were told to "Grow up!" Speech you did not like was considered "Free Speech," not "Hate Speech." Anyone who did not see the adoption of the Hate Speech mentality as an invitation to public lynching wasn't paying attention.

Now. both public whining and dog-piling on the "offenders" are seen as signs of superior virtue, rather than emotional insecurity and immaturity.

yeh, I dont belive this the way you do.

my generation was absolutely raised sticks an stones, we are the leading edge of the curve towards less violence in society that starts in the 70's

i expect little from humans, I dont think we are much above poo flinging monkeys, I am pleasantly surprised when i discover any different, ive seen my own poo flinging in the mirror, its just not something i take seriously - unless im feeling down.

my dads generation - their are hard limits to how much abuse and disrespect you can give them before they punch you in the head.

none of those old boys tolerated aggressive behaviour from anyone, by all reports the generation before that, even more prone to settlings things the primal ways

in the grand scheme of things I dont expect anyone to sit around taking abuse like a punching bag, the only difference is how they swing back.

I suspect we are talking past each other.

I suspect very few of the previous generations would get upset over someone they never met hundreds or thousand miles away insulting them over the telephone.

They would just hang up and go back to reality.

Yutes today are much more sensitive due to lack of adversity in the first world. Luckily, imaginary dragons are easily conjured. "They" are everywhere.

[noddy]

The other aspects I think are generational/cultural. In the olden days whiners were told to "Grow up!" Speech you did not like was considered "Free Speech," not "Hate Speech." Anyone who did not see the adoption of the Hate Speech mentality as an invitation to public lynching wasn't paying attention.

Now. both public whining and dog-piling on the "offenders" are seen as signs of superior virtue, rather than emotional insecurity and immaturity.

yeh, I dont belive this the way you do.

my generation was absolutely raised sticks an stones, we are the leading edge of the curve towards less violence in society that starts in the 70's

i expect little from humans, I dont think we are much above poo flinging monkeys, I am pleasantly surprised when i discover any different, ive seen my own poo flinging in the mirror, its just not something i take seriously - unless im feeling down.

my dads generation - their are hard limits to how much abuse and disrespect you can give them before they punch you in the head.

none of those old boys tolerated aggressive behaviour from anyone, by all reports the generation before that, even more prone to settlings things the primal ways

in the grand scheme of things I dont expect anyone to sit around taking abuse like a punching bag, the only difference is how they swing back.

I suspect we are talking past each other.

I suspect very few of the previous generations would get upset over someone they never met hundreds or thousand miles away insulting them over the telephone.

They would just hang up and go back to reality.

Yutes today are much more sensitive due to lack of adversity in the first world. Luckily, imaginary dragons are easily conjured. "They" are everywhere.

one of my friends who is a father of young daughters was pointing out the realities of that to me the other day.

its not remote people, its close people - the kids in school you arent friends with and in the old days only heard second hand stuff every now and then.

now its in your face, the parties you dont get invited too, the memes they make about you, the teenage nastyness is no longer fleeting and avoidable, its there everytime your phone goes beep.

[Simple Minded]

one of my friends who is a father of young daughters was pointing out the realities of that to me the other day.

its not remote people, its close people - the kids in school you arent friends with and in the old days only heard second hand stuff every now and then.

now its in your face, the parties you dont get invited too, the memes they make about you, the teenage nastyness is no longer fleeting and avoidable, its there everytime your phone goes beep.

As you noted previously, there has always been a difference between public and private. Perhaps there isn't anymore, and humans just have not evolved the social skills to deal with it yet.

That is an aspect of "modern reality" I have never had to deal with. I have friends who can't go 3 minutes without looking at their phones. Seems like a mental disorder to me. And of course, the written word is more powerful than the spoken word, meme's being visual, even more so. Thinking in those terms, it is not all that surprising that "teenage angst" now seems to persist into the 40's for a lot of people.

Especially, since for a lot of people, what is on their phone screen is more important than the reality that surrounds them. The discussions here on racism are an excellent example. "Somewhere in American, someone is getting discriminated against! That's outrageous! What a horrible country!"

Seems very similar to complaining about what is on channel 2,345. Few will change the channel. Bizarre aspect of how for many, virtual reality Trumps reality.

If today's yutes had parents with detailed memories of the Depression and WWII who were willing to share their chlidhood adversities with their kids, it might become a different frame of reference.

I heard an interesting stat yesterday. 80% of Americans are not on social media. I would have guessed that number was closer to 5% based on all the discussions of the mportantance of social media and the outrage of censorship. Supposedly, 10% of social media uses generate 80% of the posts.

That verifies the existence of parallel dimensions. It's no longer four blind guys touching a elephant.

[Simple Minded]

one of my friends who is a father of young daughters was pointing out the realities of that to me the other day.

its not remote people, its close people - the kids in school you arent friends with and in the old days only heard second hand stuff every now and then.

now its in your face, the parties you dont get invited too, the memes they make about you, the teenage nastyness is no longer fleeting and avoidable, its there everytime your phone goes beep.

Excellent statement, from an early explorer of cyberspace on virtual bullying may be more painful than in-yer-face bullying. Imagination can be a real bitch!

With social media you are fighting your own internal demons while your antagonists are battling with their own.

We do not content ourselves with the life we have in ourselves and in our own being; we desire to live an imaginary life in the mind of others, and for this purpose we endeavor to shine. We labor unceasingly to adorn and preserve this imaginary existence and neglect the real. A great proof of the nothingness of our being, not to be satisfied with the one without the other, and to renounce so often the one for the other!

Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)

[noddy]

one of my friends who is a father of young daughters was pointing out the realities of that to me the other day.

its not remote people, its close people - the kids in school you arent friends with and in the old days only heard second hand stuff every now and then.

now its in your face, the parties you dont get invited too, the memes they make about you, the teenage nastyness is no longer fleeting and avoidable, its there everytime your phone goes beep.

Excellent statement, from an early explorer of cyberspace on virtual bullying may be more painful than in-yer-face bullying. Imagination can be a real bitch!

With social media you are fighting your own internal demons while your antagonists are battling with their own.

We do not content ourselves with the life we have in ourselves and in our own being; we desire to live an imaginary life in the mind of others, and for this purpose we endeavor to shine. We labor unceasingly to adorn and preserve this imaginary existence and neglect the real. A great proof of the nothingness of our being, not to be satisfied with the one without the other, and to renounce so often the one for the other!

Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)

right, the main difference is persistance of memory

we have memory that fades, so that all the bad things go away and you can get on with life - every mistake, every toxic environment, every embarrasment of my youth is thankfully a dark distant past I can barely remember.

for anyone brought up in this world of camera phones/videos and permenant records on the internet, your lowest moments can be relived in public, constantly!

[Simple Minded]

right, the main difference is persistance of memory

we have memory that fades, so that all the bad things go away and you can get on with life - every mistake, every toxic environment, every embarrasment of my youth is thankfully a dark distant past I can barely remember.

for anyone brought up in this world of camera phones/videos and permenant records on the internet, your lowest moments can be relived in public, constantly!

Another aspect of modern life, for which I do not envy today's young people is there is no alone time. No time to reflect and just plain wonder, without any input from another human. They are never alone with their thoughts.

Why wonder about the unknown, or whether there is anything bigger than your puny self? All the answers are in the AI god in the palm of my hand.

IMSMO, that is may be why many of them never seem to develop a sense of self. Many of them seem to be more like cattle than humans. I think a lot of this can be attributed to their lack of connection/interaction with nature.

It is easy to see why the virtual bullies may be worse than the physical ones. The virtual ones can live inside your head rent free 24/7. Kinda like the classic monster movies that never show the monster, but capitalize on a primal fear like fear of the dark.

*************************************

Same for adults. You can interact with someone for years and have no idea if they are racist, Baptists, Lutherans, Muslim, gay, straight, republican, democrat, racist or all of the previous.

But in virtual Merka, virtual racists, virtual democrats, virtual republicans, virtual homophobes, etc. are everywhere. You can't avoid them!! No wonder social media like being hot chick in high heels in a monster movie.......

No wonder Cancel Culture has come into existence. How else can I still the tormenting voices inside my own head (while staying connected)? No matter where I go or what I do, THEY WON'T SHUT UP!!!

[noddy]

No wonder Cancel Culture has come into existence. How else can I still the tormenting voices inside my own head (while staying connected)? No matter where I go or what I do, THEY WON'T SHUT UP!!!

yeh partly that and partly echo chambers used to be the norm - this whole fixation on free speech and diversity is a brand new thing.

most folks have always hung out with like mindeds, most folks still do.

eg: why would I want a genuflecting argument over veganism vs omnivorism every day of my life, their is a certain point you just need to get on with things.

[Typhoon]

The one counterargument that I have been able to think of is "Why not move to another county?".
Aside from the obvious rebuttal, "Why should one have to do so?" when no crime has been committed.
This may have been possible, if difficult, in the 1950's.
However, today with social media and vast databases pursing a target and repeatedly doxxing them is far too easy.

the other argument is that the internet never was a private place and all that narrative was childish dribble.

you cant argue the same way in public spaces you do in private spaces, never have been able to, never will be able to.

some folks are just getting a learning curve on what those differences always where.

Perhaps, but I suspect that is more to it than that.

Greenwald | The New Domestic War on Terror is Coming

No speculation is needed. Those who wield power are demanding it. The only question is how much opposition they will encounter.

[noddy]

Perhaps, but I suspect that is more to it than that.

Greenwald | The New Domestic War on Terror is Coming

No speculation is needed. Those who wield power are demanding it. The only question is how much opposition they will encounter.

sure.

we already have people getting done for lavender posting bomb jokes before they get on airplanes, this context is well established.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 70913.html

what I think is happening is that they damn well know life is going to keep on getting worse for most folks, we are garunteed more wars, more refuggees, more resource shortages, more competition for jobs that arent minimum wage service jobs, more downward trends on every level.

thats going to trigger alot of people, their will be more terrorism and more anger, the legitimacy of national governments versus the new global conversation happening on google/facebook etc will become more destablising.

their will be more and more bored and angry people, packed into ghettos, living off government taxes, expected to die in their corner and accept they are useless to the plans of others.

the taxes will be paid by corporates that employ less and less people and have more power over government.

its going to be judge dredd - thats been my prediction for 30 years now and i dont see any reason to change it

still, thats neither here no there - the current middle class hates abusive speech getting published, their is no pushback against the media filtering anything that smells like that.

imagine a bland, afternoon television experience in the old pre internet world - thats the REAL western middle class preference.

lets not kid ourselves that the old system of publishing licenses and heavy filtering on who is allowed to provide public news isnt coming back

its a lie to call this a new type of censorship, this is exactly what anyone older than 30 used to live in and has been in place in all countries since the birth of government.

for a brief period in the american wild west, publishing was free for all and chaotic in local towns, till the government started expanding, reigning it in to form a coherent country.

for a brief period in the internet wild west, we all got to do whatever we liked, in which ever country we liked, however we liked and now the worlds governments are now going to reign that in.

anarchy is not the natural state of humanity.

[Simple Minded]

that fits in well with the stat I heard that 80% of Americans are not on social media and 2% of Americans generate 80% of social media traffic.

2% of the country think its the end of the world or they have gone insane. IME, the perpetually mentally ill adjusted is closer to 30%.

Agree about the end of the Wild West internet. the same was true for bicycles, tractors, automobiles, computers, etc.

[Parodite]

So far in history no empire, no dictatorship, no monopoly has survived forever. Nature somehow just can't accept the idea of permanence. I wonder why that is. Maybe it just gives a bad taste in the mouth.

If thou asketh me, what are the odds? Biden's honeymoon, all the wonderful dreams sprinkled into the future now that the orange nightmare is over, will be as short-lived as an orgasm followed immediately by that hangover caused by the night before. With the bills at the desk still grinning at you. Having to listen again to all those people nagging about their miserable lives, everybody blaming everybody for the decay and stench. Why do things keep falling apart all the time?

In the global mist it won't be easy to identify the enemy as in the ol' days when territorial demarcations were much clearer. But that won't stop nature to deal with monopolies as it always does: they crumble. I suspect the Gods vaccinated the creative juices of reality against huge eternal monsters. That position was relegated to the Immutable Eternal God, forever exorcised beyond the event horizon, hovering like a mirage beyond anyone's grasp.

The only real and eternal monopoly is Tombstone. Or maybe zillions of competing, very hungry and extremely small monsters that looove big carcasses. The jury seems still out on that. I suspect the positron is to be blamed for most of the lavender hitting the fan.