The tendency of tech society is tyranny

[Parodite]

Collectivism if it means mono-culture or monopoly as in for instance 1) only growing rice instead of a variety of crops, 2) using all money in the world to go gambling and/or speculating, 3) imposing a fascist/communist 1-party on society, 4) centralize certain powers without checks and balances as now the NSA.. it all is a high risk situation. Meaning those tyrannies are always very vulnerable! They not always dissolve easily..and can leave a scorched earth behind with lots of corpses, but they always do.

Technology it seems to me is neutral: it is used by tyrants to create monopolies but equally by the forces that will bring them down. Only if the world will change in one big North Korea and we all live in impoverished villages or in concentration camps... but even then. All you need is a lil' meteorite, extreme solar activity, some pandemic virus to clean it all up... and that Ultimate Big Bro monopoly of power will crumble like a house of cards. It is possible to fantasize about most labor being outsourced to robots and that Big Bro either starves, sterilizes redundant humans or just kills them.. but can't see things going there any time soon.

[Simple Minded]

That's also the wall you run into with any opposition to tech-based society. We can't feed all these people otherwise. The far-right and far-left individualist ideologies bump into the same problem, and eventually have to say "so what, more room for trees/'real' Christians."

Amen. Depending upon one's perspective, the fact that humans who get obsessed with their own "obvious" moral, intellectual, cultural, economic superiority only last for one generation, is either a good thing or a bad thing.

I think it takes the passing of two generations (approx. 50 years) for the "new ideas" to fully integrate into the zeitgeist.

I think you and Endo will appreciate Thomas Sowell's book Intellectuals and Race. It outlines the changing attitude of "intellectual" elite on race during the 20th century. The perceptions of intellectuals is clouded and distorted by chic peer pressure just as much as the common man.

AGW, coming ice age, population time bomb, silent spring, 5/5/05, Y2K......

[Simple Minded]

I think that people like me are probably the future of that party if it has a future.

Today.... I am proud!!!

Exactly what I have been trying to point out to you. You are the future. But only for one generation.

Your kids will be calling you their chic equivalents of "racist," "detestable," "clueless," "cowardly," "obsolete," "ignorant," etc. in just a couple decades.

Enjoy your time n the barrel!! Left of the yellow line, right of the yellow line, don't matter much. Just try to keep it between the telephone poles.....

At the end of your watch, you can focus upon trying to keep your kids from genuflecting up your grandkids......... good luck!

[Simple Minded]

Technology it seems to me is neutral:

Here you go.

This http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -meat.html

and the Megan's Laws in the US, are the modern day equivalent of the stockades.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

I think that people like me are probably the future of that party if it has a future.

Today.... I am proud!!!

Exactly what I have been trying to point out to you for a while. You are the future. But only for one generation.

Your kids will be calling you their chic equivalents of "racist," "detestable," "clueless," "cowardly," "obsolete," "ignorant," etc. in just a couple decades.

Enjoy your timei n the barrel!! Try to keep it between the telephone poles.....

At the end of your watch, you can focus upon trying to keep your kids from genuflecting up your grandkids......... good luck!

EDIT: oops, the post didn't pick up what I wrote.

I think you hit the problem square on. But I laughed because baby worship is always the last gasp of self-veneration (in this context,) which makes the "turning-on-you" part excruciating and something people never seem to learn from...hey, it'll be different the next time around. Right?

[Mr. Perfect]

most of the happy church groups and community groups ive seen are collectivist - in itself its a healthy thing.

They're probably starving as we speak.

At what point were the people on the Titanic doomed.

1) When someone dreamt it up
2) when it set sail
3) when it was aimed at an iceberg
4) when it hit the iceberg
5) when the people hit the water

I can't say that I have a point of view on it.

[Mr. Perfect]

And it's always so surreal to hear from people whose group isn't producing any children pontificating about the future of people who are having children. Very surreal thread so far.

[Simple Minded]

EDIT: oops, the post didn't pick up what I wrote.

I think you hit the problem square on. But I laughed because baby worship is always the last gasp of self-veneration (in this context,) which makes the "turning-on-you" part excruciating and something people never seem to learn from...hey, it'll be different the next time around. Right?

Kinda like candidates always promise different but usually do the same?

Actually, "This time is different." is the famous quote often stated just before the reversion to the mean.

What are those famous Redneck Zen Quotes?

"You only hurt the ones you love...." "Tough love....."



Another analogy, for years you tell your kid "Don't try to stick nails in the electrical outlet!" But he just can't let it go. So at some age, maybe 8?, or 10?, Ya have the big talk. "Look kid, I can't follow you around the rest of your life trying to keep you from sticking nails in electrical outlets. Here is a nail, there is a 110 VAC outlet with a low amp fuse. Chances are almost zero you will get killed. I promise that if you get hurt really bad I'll take you to the hospital. Have at it!"

In the end, he is satisfied, and you never have to worry about him sticking nails in a 220 VDC or 440 VDC outlet. Everyone lives happily ever after, and you both have a great story to tell for the rest of your lives.

In the good ole days, they called it bonding!

[Enki]

I think that people like me are probably the future of that party if it has a future.

Today.... I am proud!!!

Exactly what I have been trying to point out to you. You are the future. But only for one generation.

Your kids will be calling you their chic equivalents of "racist," "detestable," "clueless," "cowardly," "obsolete," "ignorant," etc. in just a couple decades.

Enjoy your time n the barrel!! Left of the yellow line, right of the yellow line, don't matter much. Just try to keep it between the telephone poles.....

At the end of your watch, you can focus upon trying to keep your kids from genuflecting up your grandkids......... good luck!

Funny you say this considering I have been entirely consistent on this point for years. The radical nature of the Republican party and their big government tendencies are things I find abhorrent. I am all for reducing the size of government, I just think we should start with the murdering and imprisoning people budgets before we start hitting up the feeding and healing people budgets.

[Mr. Perfect]

Why do people need to be fed and healed by the government?

Why didn't you cut the size of government when for 2 years you had congressional supermajorities plus Obama, instead you presided over record gov't expansion? Why did that happen? As is often the case I have answers if you don't have any.

[Demon of Undoing]

Just as a PSA, and I know you won't really believe it, but Tinker isn't actually Barrack Obama. And your Titanic was doomed when it was designed and built, historically speaking.

Ill have more substantive things to say after I've been on top of a few Sierra Nevadas.

[Mr. Perfect]

For the pedantic "you" = "you guys".

[Demon of Undoing]

For the pedantic "you" = "you guys".

Uh, ok. BTW, you got Hyde tonight. Sorry in advance.

The " collectivist" trope, in reality, is shite. Ever started a fire butt naked? Ever tried to kill, pack out, preserve and eat a moose? If you did it alone, I bet your ass you don't want to do it again. The toughest SOB I ever met, whom Krakauer mentions, was a shonuff badmofo that lived in the Kenai- bear country the like of which you've never seen- all by himself, for well over a year. His verdict ? " Man isn't meant to live alone." I'll take his word for it.

It's all a social compromise. More can be wrought by equals with good rifle skills than can be managed by the tools of some tyrant or another. I got that. The NSA doesn't give a lavender.

They have and will continue to develop the tools that make all that moot. The tools will seek efficiency, however temporally defined. This session it's using Obamas keywords. The next it uses Jeb Bush's. His brother George acknowledged its his program, another Bushism on a par with Gore's " inventing the Internet" idiocy. George is the dumbass that doesn't understand what trunked lines are, doesn't understand what a search engine can do, wouldn't know anything about crunching Big Data if the file came up and bit him in his codsack. George is the durian that never heard of Carnivore/Echelon " back when he couldn't handle all the booze Daddy's money bought him.

I have a technique I use in a grapple when I'm tired or working against someone relatively as strong as I am ( not often, ill tell you). I call it the anaconda. I bar all their limbs and compress their pulmonary diameter with each exhale. IOW, every time they breathe out, I take that space they vacated to tighten my grip in the clench. This progressively removes the room their rib cage requires to expand and fill their lungs. I've only done it twice, but both times saw a man as strong but with better fitness fall asleep, and me dictate the terms of his unconsciousness.

Why? Because no matter where you go, there I am. No matter what your next move, it requires space, and I will sense your need quickly enough to deny it to you. Few men are psychotic enough to truly act on their own. Their mind requires space to move. In those minor flexions, intent will be shown to an algorithm that has only one purpose, and Sauron's unblinking eye:

" Kyle Reese: You still don't get it, do you? He'll find her! That's what he does! That's ALL he does! You can't stop him! He'll wade through you, reach down her throat and pull her fuckin' heart out!

You stay safe by staying inoffensive and looking for loopholes. Hoping that the golem has feet of clay may be a short odds situation.

[Mr. Perfect]

I'm going to have say at this point that I disagree with your premise now entirely. A machine is something that has an on off switch, or a plug/battery, or whatever, my barely used degree in EE still helps me read the circuit well enough (if anyone wants to test my claim here I will tell you up front I will simply forward your questions to one of my employees). PRISM was made by man. It can but turned off forever with a few clicks. I'm not even afraid of PRISM, it just tells me about the men behind it.

Tyrants interestingly now are more associated with no tech spots like NK and Cuba, and as mentioned before Maos' China was indistinguishable from technology from any point hundreds of years in the past.

To blame the machine is to exonerate the human. Lots of exonerating going around these days.

[Demon of Undoing]

Ok. No exoneration. You are 100% guilty for PRISM. Hate to call a spade a spade, but there you go. Also, in your dreams. This has no off switch. Little truncated points of view.

[Mr. Perfect]

Well not really. Echelon as a talking point goes back to Art Bell days tbh. You know Art Bell right, hopefully you are of age. Just recall that talking about Art Bell gets you pigeonholed as an Art Bell guy, hopefully you know what that means. Echelon until recently = tinfoil.

It's about picking your battles. TBH that was never the battlefield whether it should have been or not. The choice between a party that gets Freedom 80-90% right vs a party that gets Freedom 5% right. My conscience is clean.

[YMix]

Tyrants interestingly now are more associated with no tech spots like NK and Cuba, and as mentioned before Maos' China was indistinguishable from technology from any point hundreds of years in the past.

Low-tech tyrants are associated with low-tech spots. A Mao-style frontman is no longer required in high-tech spots.

[Mr. Perfect]

Thus damaging the OP. The tyranny impulse doesn't need tech, it will take it or leave it. "The tendency of tech society is tyranny" is sort of a meaningless statement, xerxes didn't need much more than clubs and sharp blades.

[YMix]

Thus damaging the OP. The tyranny impulse doesn't need tech

That's not what the OP says.

xerxes didn't need much more than clubs and sharp blades.

That's tech.

[Mr. Perfect]

That's not what the OP says.

edit;

Thus damaging the OP. The tyranny impulse doesn't need tech, it will take it or leave it. "The tendency of tech society is tyranny" is sort of a meaningless statement,

It's relevant to the title because of the nonbolded part.

That's tech.

Name a no tech society.

[YMix]

It's what the title says.

The title says "tendency of tech society", not "tyranny impulse".

Name a no tech society.

Don't think there are any left.

[Mr. Perfect]

The title says "tendency of tech society", not "tyranny impulse".

readdressed

Don't think there are any left.

So we'll never know the tendency of a non tech society for comparison. And we have a logic loop.

But the solution is easy, many lower tech societies have been more tyrannical than higher tech societies throughout history.

[YMix]

But the solution is easy, many lower tech societies have been more tyrannical than higher tech societies throughout history.

Hang on to it, Mr. Perfect. Hang on to it.

So we'll never know the tendency of a non tech society for comparison. And we have a logic loop.

Not if you think about it. The rulers tend to move faster and to coordinate better in order to take advantage of any new tech's potential to increase their power. The people, as a large and uncoordinated group, lags behind in the development of countermeasures. The more tech, the more ways the rulers can genuflect with you. When tech is everywhere, surveillance and control are everywhere.

[Mr. Perfect]

Not if you think about it. The rulers tend to move faster and to coordinate better in order to take advantage of any new tech's potential to increase their power. The people, as a large and uncoordinated group, lags behind in the development of countermeasures. The more tech, the more ways the rulers can genuflect with you. When tech is everywhere, surveillance and control are everywhere.

Well for someone like yourself who doesn't believe in free will and all that stuff, I'm sure this is what you believe. You wouldn't have a choice about what you believe to begin with, but then again neither would I. It's weird that nature would create two people who believe opposite things and they have no control over it.

[Demon of Undoing]

Well not really. Echelon as a talking point goes back to Art Bell days tbh. You know Art Bell right, hopefully you are of age. Just recall that talking about Art Bell gets you pigeonholed as an Art Bell guy, hopefully you know what that means. Echelon until recently = tinfoil.

It's about picking your battles. TBH that was never the battlefield whether it should have been or not. The choice between a party that gets Freedom 80-90% right vs a party that gets Freedom 5% right. My conscience is clean.

See, that might have been a functional slander for the longest time, except for one thing: if Bell was telling people that it was being used to spy on them, he was right.