Cambridge Declaration on Consciousness

[Enki]

http://io9.com/5937356/prominent-scient ... st-like-us

Scientists at a conference in Cambridge have declared that all animals are conscious.

I guess that means eating is immoral. Of course I always thought that all living creatures are conscious.

[Azrael]

How likely is it that mold on bread is conscious?

[monster_gardener]

http://io9.com/5937356/prominent-scient ... st-like-us

Scientists at a conference in Cambridge have declared that all animals are conscious.

I guess that means eating is immoral. Of course I always thought that all living creatures are conscious.

Thank You Very Much for your post, Tinker.

I guess that means eating is immoral.

Let D. Keith Mano give you a hand across "The Bridge" (1973)


http://www.amazon.com/The-bridge-D-Keit ... 0385028709

Mano's book is weirdly prescient about the burgeoning power of the green movement and he explores the darker ramifications of a world ruled by a green/socialist government whose ecological politics have tainted and warped the very fabric of society. Mankind is no longer dominant in this world, but has willingly ceded his dominion over it. The big change comes during a civil war between the Green/Eco forces and the Realist/Christian forces. In the end the Greens won and proceeded to radically remake the world, tearing up highways and parking lots, planting genetically modified plants that could grow in the harsh and polluted soils of the cities, and ending man's consumption of nature's resources. Pretty much what the Greens seek to do now, actually.

But in this dystopian future we see what would happen if it is taken to it's ultimate end, such as the PETA or ELF folks would have it. For in this future no one farms or raises food, in fact eating or drinking anything is forbidden and punishable under the law. To subsist everyone consumes a liquid e-diet provided by the government. The e-diet is a chemically constructed nutrient rich fluid that the body can consume completely and produces no waste products at all, it is also loaded with narcotics to keep the people docile. Pollution of all forms has also been outlawed, even noise pollution - people are forbidden to listen to music, watch movies, or speak. In fact all communication is by a type of finger-speech or reading lips, and anyone making noise or speaking aloud, even in surprise, can be punished under the law. No competition is allowed either, playing games with others or competing against one's fellow man is a sign of anti-social behaviour and punishable under the law.

There are more such laws that Mano introduces us to, and he does so in an interesting way. He has Priest, the main protagonist for much of the book, a newly released convict travel from Yankee Stadium (where he was imprisoned for speaking in anger) back to his home in New Loch to be with his wife and new born child. The government has released Priest because their latest policy decree is that the very act of human breathing is offensive to nature (because of the germs and virii killed in the process) and therefore everyone must die. Priest now has seven days to get home before the decreed day of death is final. In those seven days we explore this world and discover that it is a study of opposites, at once verdant and yet bereft life, and that Priest is at once both a hero for wanting to live and choosing life over a senseless death, and at the same time an ugly savage and anti-hero for his actions and behavior. With the sparing use of other characters such as Paul Xavier, the aged Catholic priest who befriends Priest on his trip home, Mano does an excellent job of showing us the logical result of the faux intellectualism and arrogance of the nannystate that a green/socialist government ultimately leads to; a society of death and nihilism, that values even microbial life more than human life, and in the end sows the seeds of it's own destruction.

http://www.amazon.com/review/R2ARFJF369 ... tore=books

Great book........

And NOT just fiction..........

The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement

“May we live long and die out”

Phasing out the human race by voluntarily ceasing to breed will allow Earth’s biosphere to return to good health.

http://www.vhemt.org/

Of course I always thought that all living creatures are conscious.

That is an in Jain idea

Besides their nudity* , Jain saints are known to starve themselves to death and Jain lay persons gain merit by paying beggars who proclaim "Who will feed the bugs" to let bedbugs to feed on them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jain

Jains are a reason the Buddha considered Buddhism to be the moderate path to enlightenment despite its strictures of vegetarianism etc.........


*The Sky Clad Jains vs. the clothed White Clad Jains.....

[Enki]

That book sounds pretty silly. I like that the greens solutions are all things that greens are opposed to, and the things they have greens opposed to are all things that greens fight for. Sounds like it was written by someone who didn't study the movement much at all.

[Nonc Hilaire]

Blade of grass; cross section

[Typhoon]

↑ Very good.

I'd like to know the basics: what is conciousness?

[Simple Minded]

How likely is it that mold on bread is conscious?

A more interesting question is what type of bread does mold prefer?

Does black mold and white mold consider each other to be equals?

If not, does racism imply consciousness?

[Simple Minded]

↑ Very good.

I'd like to know the basics: what is conciousness?

so many smart arse answers come to mind......

I would start with the ability to ask the question, what is consciousness?

but if the questioner does not agree unquestionably with my answer, I would prefer to label them as "not quite conscious enough."

[Simple Minded]

I would think that anyone who has spent anytime at all with animals would realize they are conscious. Now, whether we can define consciousness any better than we can define "fair" or "right" or "left" will be the real challenge.

At what age do humans attain consciousness? 10? 20? 30? 60?

[noddy]

if consciouness means self-aware then its most (all?) higher animals... cant speak about plants and moulds because they are too alien for me and dont communicate as well as a dog or a parrot.

ive never understood the nonsense about only humans being self aware so this isnt going to change my eating habits, just reinforce the fact that we all die sometime and become something elses food and you dont kill creatures lightly.

[Simple Minded]

I saw a commercial for eco-conscious tires today. I think they were Firestones.

I'm not sure if these are really, really smart AI tires , or if the redneck zen elders were correct and all matter is conscious .

Or, it could be possible that I just don't get how people use language.......

[Enki]

I saw a commercial for eco-conscious tires today. I think they were Firestones.

I'm not sure if these are really, really smart AI tires , or if the redneck zen elders were correct and all matter is conscious .

Or, it could be possible that I just don't get how people use language.......

Your non-sequitur is off topic. However, what you are referring to is 'greenwashing'. It's the green equivalent of saying, "All Natural", in a product that is a medley of extracts from fruits and vegetables. Or saying, "Home cooking", at a restaurant.

[Parodite]

Yes "what is consciousness". Seems to me a function of the human brain that is active when more complex behaviors are required. If not.. well sleep away the day, or dream a little. Or meditate and experience "higher levels of consciousness" whereas in fact the conscious state quiets down when you stare into the mist.

Probably there exist formats of sentience/awareness in other animals. But pretty hard to imagine "what it is like" to be say.. a dog, a parrot, a honey bee, let alone a mold. We cannot really step out of our own grammar. But many mammals seem to have a sentience language that in some basic ways is very similar to ours.

Also consciousness as a concept is highly inflated. No "Eye in the Sky" as far as I can see. A reasonable argument though is to say that conscious experience/sentience is an emergent property of complex neural systems in relation to animal social behavior. But for that property to get air born, there has to be some innate quality in inanimate matter that allows for sentience/awareness to arise. How to label that quality is only of poetic concern. "Proto-consciousness"? Nah..

[Alexis]

Mano's book is weirdly prescient about the burgeoning power of the green movement and he explores the darker ramifications of a world ruled by a green/socialist government whose ecological politics have tainted and warped the very fabric of society. Mankind is no longer dominant in this world, but has willingly ceded his dominion over it. The big change comes during a civil war between the Green/Eco forces and the Realist/Christian forces.

The unstated and yet very stark premise is that Ecologist/Green is the opposite of Realist... and opposed to Christian.

So the assumption is that who would like to prevent disparition of maritime resources through overfishing, who is worried about augmentation of ocean salinity, or destruction of the Great Coral Reef... is a most irrealist fellow.

The assumption is that who is worried about loss of arable land, pollution of clean water through pesticide overuse, continuous reduction in primary forests and consequence in loss of many vegetal and animal species... is anti-Christian.

He who would like to enquire about the consequences of strong and continuous rise in CO2 atmospheric content? An irrealist and an anti-Christian, perhaps?

I must have missed the part in the Gospels where Jesus recommended to risk deteriorating Creation. Silly me. Maybe this Keith Mano could tell me?

But in this dystopian future we see what would happen if it is taken to it's ultimate end, such as the PETA or ELF folks would have it.

I don't know what PETA or ELF argue for, but I do sense in this above sentence an upsize strawman argument...
Kind of like accusing somebody arguing against affirmative action to be a closet Nazi and have a Hitler portrait in his room

The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement

“May we live long and die out”

Phasing out the human race by voluntarily ceasing to breed will allow Earth’s biosphere to return to good health.

Now these are some serious nutjobs.

Conflating these poor souls with the movement arguing for us to take better care of the garden we've been given cannot be a serious argument.

[Enki]

I support VHEMT. Remember, population reduction starts at home.

Let us breeders handle the business of carrying on human life.

If they ever become strong enough to hold political sway, then exterminate them. Solves our problem and their problem all at once.