Ukraine

[noddy]

indeed.

one thing i have enjoyed with the russian point of view is that ukraine is not allowed to form relationships with the west, its role is to be a buffer between the east and west and it must remain isolated and weak.

endo and azari argue that it was the ukraines fault for trying to form stronger relationships with america and the west.

what a lark.

[Heracleum Persicum]

.

indeed.

one thing i have enjoyed with the russian point of view is that ukraine is not allowed to form relationships with the west, its role is to be a buffer between the east and west and it must remain isolated and weak.

endo and azari argue that it was the ukraines fault for trying to form stronger relationships with america and the west.

what a lark.

.

"Strength" for Ukraine is not in joining Russian enemies .. would be same if Mexico would sign with Russia and China (and Iran) a military pact with official announced anti-US agenda and arguing Mexico wants to be strong and US wants Mexico to be weak

Am not sure (have not yet understood) WHY west, America, considers Russia an enemy, WHY Bonaparte attacked Russia, Why Hitler attacked Russia ? ? all this is a puzzle to me .. No communism when Napoleon attacked Russia and occupied Moscow .. and right now, Russia more capitalist than US of A

So, why everybody attacking Russia ? ?

But

If West and Russia are enemies, it is "absolutely" natural, no brainer, that Russian neighbours must, at least "act neutral" if not side with Russia .. what would US do if Canada suddenly signs military pact with Iranian Qhuds force ? ? same with NATO being in Estonia

Not realizing all this comes either from naivety or thinking others idiots or thinking bullying will win the day

noddy, think you were Russian and NATO surrounding you, with nuclear armed NATO .. what would you think ?

Always, to understand the issue, put yourself in other guys shoe

Russian Tsars where no friend of Persia .. less than 200 yrs ago, they rubbed Persia of 45% it "golden provinces", heart of Persia .. Russia was bigger enemy to Persia than Ottoman and Brits

http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Iran/torkmanchai.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Game

In that sense .. Azari is not "sympathetic" to Russia in real sense .. but truth must be told

.

[noddy]

gibberish and double standards.

russia is responding with hard power because unlike america and china, it hasnt got the culture or nuance to use soft power.

it had all the oppurtunity in the world to use the russian slavic populations in eastern europe to leverage local politics in a way that america and china wish they had but the thuggish durian putin hasnt got the brains or patience.
\

[Heracleum Persicum]

.

gibberish and double standards.

russia is responding with hard power because unlike america and china, it hasnt got the culture or nuance to use soft power.

it had all the oppurtunity in the world to use the russian slavic populations in eastern europe to leverage local politics in a way that america and china wish they had but the thuggish durian putin hasnt got the brains or patience.

.

What is happening now, West antagonism with Russia .. has ZERO to do neither with Putin nor with Russian culture or Russia not knowing this or that

Wars are not personal, wars happen only and only for economic reason

WEST wants to partition Russia .. partitioning Russia would weaken Russia .. weak Russia would not be able to hold to Siberia .. Siberia is what all about coming war with Russia .. WEST wants Siberian natural resources taken away from Russia, that is why Hitler attacked Russia (Oil of Caucasus) .. same concept with Libya and Iraq

and

West will not settle with Iran (nuclear deal) .. WEST does not accept that world 2nd biggest Gas reservoir and Oil be in hands of Iranians, West tries to destroy Iran too, same as Iraq or Libya .. Iranians know this

The rest is all music to fool Joe

.

[noddy]

only one that would end up with siberia is china, this analysis isnt a proper picture.

the west isnt "attacking" russia, europe has as much cultural relevance in eastern europe as russia does - id argue the opposite, id argue europe has been neglectful of its eastern neighbours .

[Heracleum Persicum]

only one that would end up with siberia is china, this analysis isnt a proper picture.

the west isnt "attacking" russia, europe has as much cultural relevance in eastern europe as russia does - id argue the opposite, id argue europe has been neglectful of its eastern neighbours .

If so, why is NATO, Western military, encircling Russia, now on Russian borders ? ?

If Europe does not consider Russia an enemy and has not mean intention, why NATO now at Russian borders ?

What would Germany say if Russia would have their military at German borders ?

Russia proposed that Russia also become member of NATO .. West said NO

Russia for even considering the possibility of joining NATO


Russia wanted 2B a "partner" with Europe .. Europe, Germany, helping to build up Russia after the WW2 destruction

All started well, Russia trusting West .. but, crooks fleeced Russia of Russian wealth, escaped to Tel Aviv and London, protected by West .. Putin stopped the rubbery and that is when Western antagonism started with Russia .. you remember all those Russian hookers ? ? now suddenly Russians became rich and coming to west for "shopping".

Putin saved Russia .. the crooks do not like that

.

[noddy]

russia does have strategic relationships with venezuala and cuba and to a certain extent brazil, by your logic its "encircling" america.

western europe encircles russia by geography, this is not particularly suprising, its lies to claim any different - what you are sayin is that eastern europe must remain a no mans zone, a dead place with no integration into any market just so russia can feel less humiliated. this is utter garbage.

all of these games, the politics, the bribery, corruption, the propoganda is fair and square, its softpower and every country that can do it will do it, china does it and the west does it.

russia is just crap at it, noone trusts them enough, they are too inward and rascist to really properly engage with other countries, this has been true for a long time and was a magor factor during the russian/chinese communist era - those 2 never had anywhere near the systematic trust between eachother that america and western europe could enjoy.

you cant just claim you are being humiliated and invade people, if the west is being cheeky with softpower, then be cheeky back.

china is handling hong kong, taiwan and singapore with far more smarts than russia could even dream of, typhoon would aruge that china isnt that good at softpower and he is right, but they are still a million times better at than russia.

[Heracleum Persicum]

russia does have strategic relationships with venezuala and cuba and to a certain extent brazil, by your logic its "encircling" america.

western europe encircles russia by geography, this is not particularly suprising, its lies to claim any different - what you are sayin is that eastern europe must remain a no mans zone, a dead place with no integration into any market just so russia can feel less humiliated. this is utter garbage.

all of these games, the politics, the bribery, corruption, the propoganda is fair and square, its softpower and every country that can do it will do it, china does it and the west does it.

russia is just crap at it, noone trusts them enough, they are too inward and rascist to really properly engage with other countries, this has been true for a long time and was a magor factor during the russian/chinese communist era - those 2 never had anywhere near the systematic trust between eachother that america and western europe could enjoy.

you cant just claim you are being humiliated and invade people, if the west is being cheeky with softpower, then be cheeky back.

china is handling hong kong, taiwan and singapore with far more smarts than russia could even dream of, typhoon would aruge that china isnt that good at softpower and he is right, but they are still a million times better at than russia.

.


Russia "reactivated" CUBA and South American ex- friends

well, wait until Russia starts stationing nuclear missiles and bombers in CUBA (as now NATO has in Estonia) to see how US will react

Nuclear missiles and bombers from Cuba to Florida need less than a minute flying time .. interesting to see how US would react .. or even a few Russian "Borei-class nuclear sub" with "Bulava strategic nuclear missile" just outside of territorial waters .. lets see how US would react


y63Owc_jzOs
xZePkjU9lBs


.

[noddy]

this has already happened, we dont need to ask "what if" - russia reopened the cuban spy base and russian navy visits cuba.

your double standards are showing.

[Heracleum Persicum]

.

this has already happened, we dont need to ask "what if" - russia reopened the cuban spy base and russian navy visits cuba.

.

"Spy base" ? ? dime a dozen in age of satellite

we talkin "nuclear missiles and bombers", that is when that thing hits the fan

.
your double standards are showing.

You have "Nuclear F-16" in Estonia, versus "Spy base" in Cuba who has double standard ?

.

[noddy]

if america liberates cuba and gives them freedom (tm) you will have an argument.

actually, plenty of latinos in southern america now.. maybe they will copy the russian logic.. hmm.

[Endovelico]

gibberish and double standards.

russia is responding with hard power because unlike america and china, it hasnt got the culture or nuance to use soft power.

it had all the oppurtunity in the world to use the russian slavic populations in eastern europe to leverage local politics in a way that america and china wish they had but the thuggish durian putin hasnt got the brains or patience.
\

US "soft" power? As in Iraq, Vietnam, Nicaragua, Grenada, Cuba, Syria, Iran, Afghanistan, etc.? ...

[Endovelico]

...russia is just crap at it, noone trusts them enough, they are too inward and rascist to really properly engage with other countries...

Russia racist? Evidence, please...

[Endovelico]

Interesting loot...

NAF thanks the United States for the new LCMR (Lightweight Counter-Mortar Radar)
February 20, 2015

(Translated by Kristina Rus)

Judging by the "LifeNews" report on February 19, 2015 about Novorossia fighters collecting trophies after Ukrainian troops withdrew from Debaltsevo, among other finds, NAF received one whole complex of LCMR (Lightweight Counter-Mortar Radar), supplied by the United States as part of military assistance to Ukraine.

The U.S. has decided to send to the armed forces of Ukraine 20 LCMR radars, the first three of which were delivered in November 2014. According to the information, received by our blog from the most serious sources, soon after the transfer one of the stations was damaged during transportation, and then another station was damaged by artillery fire of the enemy at the first attempt of its combat use by the Ukrainians. We can assume that the LCMR radar, abandoned by the Ukrainian troops in Debaltsevo is the third of this ill-fated first batch of the three stations.

It will look something like this:



If the stuff is any good you may be sure that Russia will reverse engineer it. Advantages of having the US supplying the Ukraine with military hardware...

[Simple Minded]

This kind of stuff always makes we wonder how much foreign aid is simply corrupt payoffs. And how much all the stuff we Peanut Galleryers discuss is mere stage craft. Obviously no one has any control on where the money, food, or weaponry end up.

Obama/Congress: Vald, if you swager into the Ukraine, I can make some blustery statement about foreign boogeymen that will distract my critics.
Putin/Politboro: O, send some of that neat hardware to my minion, it will end up in our hands in one week. Money will be in account three days later.
Obama/Congress: OK, but you realize I may have to MF you for a few weeks in the media to make it believable.
Putin/Politboro: The more you MF me in the press, the more I can MF you in the press, the more rabid our bases become. Good for both us & business.

Both: Done deal! I should get better polling in a couple weeks.

I think we see this stuff all the time in the US regarding Gun control, abortion, climate change, and all the fleeting "social issues.". Seems more like soap operas than adult interaction.

Hollywood oligarchs created Zionists as the ultimate circus to covertly rule the world?

[Endovelico]

Interesting loot (2)...

On the trophies kindly left by the UAF for Novorossia in the Debaltsevo cauldron
By Aleksey Smirnitskiy

(Translated from Russian by J.Hawk)

We are receiving the first reports concerning the approximate numbers of equipment captured in the Debaltsevo cauldron.

1. Armored vehicles. By first estimates, Novorossia captured over 80 tanks in repairable condition. Some of them were fully operational, even loaded with ammunition. Some have been abandoned without fuel, others were abandoned after their tracks were damaged, most of the vehicles captured have light or medium damage. This is sufficient for at least two tank battalions.

According to the official Kiev GenStaff announcement, as many as 15 tanks managed to leave the cauldron…out of at least 5 battalion tactical groups which were originally in the cauldron and 4 additional ones that were sent in to help.

Over 100 BMPs and BTRs have been captured in repairable condition. The junta managed to take out only about 50.

2. Artillery. Not fewer than fifty 122mm and 152mm weapons (not counting 120mm mortars), many of which are repairable, and about 15 BM-21 122mm Grad launchers. At least 500 tons of artillery ammunition.

3. A huge amount of small arms, including heavy machine guns, RPGs, RPOs [flame rocket launchers used for assaulting fortified positions and buildings]. Storehouses of food and medicine. Other goods.

4. Novorossia commanders are especially grateful to the numerous volunteer organizations which have equipped the junta’s forces so well: the hundreds of night vision devices, digital radio stations, thermal imagers, modern ballistic computers and fire direction gear, wound treatment and anti-shock kits of Western origin, Kevlar helmets (even though Russian ones are better, there aren’t enough of them), modern body armor, will be of great use.

http://fortruss.blogspot.pt/2015/02/nov ... ve-of.html

The Novorussians are now expecting the next batch of US equipment which the Ukrainians will leave for them at the end of next Spring offensive...

[Typhoon]

...russia is just crap at it, noone trusts them enough, they are too inward and rascist to really properly engage with other countries...

Russia racist? Evidence, please...

Let me Google that for you.

[Endovelico]

An assessment of the Ukrainian situation

http://cassad-eng.livejournal.com/

(...)

It is clear that in Washington they perfectly understand the the liberation of Debalcevo doesn't violate the Minsk agreements in any way, but they will prevent even this AFU catastrophe as a manifestation of the Russian treachery and her "extremely low behavior". So, the military rhetoric of the junta, which "isn't afraid of the war with Russia", is a reinterpretation of the American line, which actually pushes the junta towards increasing the space of the hybrid war in Ukraine. The main goal is certainly not a world war with the use of nuclear weapons and not even a direct clash with NATO with certain limitations on the WMD, but exactly the escalation of the hybrid war up to the approximate level of the "Korean war", when the contingents of the USA and its allies and also of the USSR and China were fighting behind the forces of the north and south Koreans pretty much openly. Currently the mode of work by the voentorgs of the sides is maximally camouflaged and the war is officially presented as the war between the junta and the people's republics. The USA want to raise the stakes in exactly the main confrontation, when the involvement of the sides in the conflict will increase and correspondingly the risks for the participants of the war will increase, which start to become increasingly more global. The junta is just an instrument with which the USA are trying to push this situation towards the desired direction. Russia, which tries to get a frozen conflict, impedes this to the extent of its abilities. Because the current format of supporting the people's republics is not sufficiently expensive to become unbearable, certain space for diplomatic maneuvering is preserved.

Nevertheless, because there is a full understanding that the truce may be broken in the nearest time and that military action will restart in the spring, the Kremlin doesn't put all eggs into the same basket and is pushing the topic of the Ukrainian government in exile increasingly more actively. Synchronous emersion of Azarov and Yanukovich is a signal for the junta and the USA of sorts that if the pressure on the RF won't be reduced, then the Kremlin will walk the path of splitting Ukraine, because it is obvious that such a government will be able to establish its authority only over a part of Ukraine, but it will be quite sufficient to activate the processes of turmoil in a number of regions of the South-East and partially legitimize the past actions of Russia and also the subsequent moves in the Ukrainian game. Naturally, all of this had to be done back in the spring of the last year, so this scheme is shamelessly late, but even now it can be quite useful with a proper selection of cadres for such a government and with a properly organized promotion of this government. What's the most important in this question: as this process moves towards its practical realization and as the risks of a rift in the remaining Ukraine will grow, the idea of the Greater Novorossia, as one of the variants of reassembling one of the parts of the disintegrating Ukraine, will be inevitably in play. For now this is just a project, but given further escalation of the war (which the Kremlin tried to avoid in every way), the logic of the war itself will demand stricter measures from Russia on the Ukrainian direction.

The variant with a military intervention, which was convenient in March-April of 2014, is no longer as attractive (the external situation changed significantly to Russia's disadvantage), but there are other effective instruments that have to do with the internal destruction of the junta and of the Ukraine as a state with the formation of several new states on its territory some of which will be friendly to Russia and will effectively be under its protectorate and some of which will be hostile to Russia and will be under the U.S. protectorate. At this stage neither side can establish the control over the whole territory of the Ukraine in its pre-disintegration borders. The Ukraine is no longer able to be completely pro-American or completely pro-Russian and so that is why, given the continuation of the war towards which the USA are guiding the junta, further disintegration of Ukraine (both due to objective reasons and also due to the logic of war) is very probable. At the same time, the paradox of this situation is that Russia is actually not against keeping Ukraine intact in its current borders (with a frozen conflict in Donbass and without Crimea), but it is precisely the junta which does everything to get to a situation when the Kremlin will have no other choice except solving the riddle by wrapping up the Ukraine as such in order to completely reshape the playing field on the land where the Ukraine used to be. Naturally, the USA will be satisfied with this variant, because the conflict won't go away in this case either and it will be possible to benefit from this war and from the conflict between the RF and the EU. Naturally, both the EU and the RF will suffer significant losses from the implementation of such a scenario, but the Ukraine itself and its population, which became a hostage of the american policy that pushes the world towards a war, will suffer the most.

Overall, no matter how the conflict between the USA and the RF will develop, it ain't going to end well for the Ukraine.

Recent news that

Former President of Ukraine Viktor Yanukovich has promised to return to Ukraine as soon as it becomes possible to make the life of the Ukrainian people easier.

http://tass.ru/en/world/779056

seems to indicate that the plan is already being carried out. Soon we will have two Ukraines with two different governments, very much like Korea.

[Heracleum Persicum]

.


TASS

Former Ukrainian Prime Minister :

US embassy had Ukraine coup script

World February 22, 7:43 UTC+3

Azarov said the West was discontented with the policy of then-Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovich because Ukraine announced during his presidency that it "will not join NATO"

MOSCOW, February 22. /TASS/. The script of a coup d’etat that occurred a year ago in Ukraine had not been written by oppositionists in Kiev but was in the US embassy, former Ukrainian Prime Minister Nikolai Azarov said on the NTV television channel.

"The script was not written in Kiev. It was in the US embassy," Azarov said. "And the key puppet masters were not on Maidan [Independence Square in Kiev - the symbol of Ukrainian protests]. These dummies did not really manage anything and did not influence anything."

He said the West was discontented with the policy of then-Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovich because Ukraine announced during his presidency that it "will not join NATO."

"That policy did not suit the United States and some partners in the EU," the ex-premier said. "They were constantly lecturing us. Active preparation started, which I did not pay proper attention to."

Besides, Azarov said, the West did not like the doubts of the then-Ukrainian government regarding the expediency of signing an association agreement with the European Union.

"We were speaking much in the country, saying that if we thoughtlessly sign the deal we will face huge economic losses, and that happened," the former prime minister said. "Huge pressure started on the part of the EU leaders. The sense of the pressure was that we should put aside doubts and sign the agreement."

Ukraine’s former prime minister calls federalization the only way to settle conflict

"They needed a pretext to depose our power," he said. "We were told: ‘if you don’t sign the deal, other authorities will.’"

The pretext, Azarov said, was when a rally of Euro-integration supporters was dispersed by force on Maidan. He said it was a provocation planned beforehand.

"The rally was sluggish. The organizers realized that the crowd could not be prompted to act without victims," he said. He said cameras were brought to the rally.

"Cameras professionally showed beaten faces. They started crying that children had been beaten. Signals were distributed via social networks and TV: let’s gather. This allowed organizers to say that the regime is bloody. It’s like what happened in Libya, Egypt," Azarov said.

Speaking about Yanukovich’s talks with the opposition, the ex-premier said "[current premier Arseny] Yatsenyuk went to get instructions to the American embassy every day: what to say and what demands to forward."

As a result, an agreement between the Ukrainian president and opposition leaders was signed on peaceful resolution of the conflict, and a number of European countries posed as guarantors, but no one except for Yanukovich fulfilled it, he said.

The events that followed, Azarov said, can’t be described other than a coup. "He [Yanukovich] was the constitutional president. He did not say he renounced power. He was overthrown, and it should be admitted. A coup d’etat occurred, I am sure."

"The fact that Yanukovich did not let others kill him is very positive," he said.

Summing up the year since the coup in Ukraine, he said: "What has Ukraine got? Ruin, decline, loss of revenues of the population, war, killed citizens. What could be celebrated? We should go light a candle and pray for forgiveness."
Developments

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[Typhoon]

BBC | Ukraine army to be trained by UK troops

[Typhoon]

.


TASS

No one believes that agitprop from Russia except the gullible.

[Typhoon]

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

Two Ukraines? Ukraine is game to you?

fzLtF_PxbYw

[Simple Minded]

Next frame:

Obama: OK, OK, OK.... Vlad......just make sure that money is in my Swiss bank account by the end of the day.....

[Simple Minded]

Two Ukraines? Ukraine is game to you?

fzLtF_PxbYw

Kramer as Putin, Newman as Obama. Perfect!