Libya after Gaddafi

[Hans Bulvai]

http://www.democracynow.org/2012/2/21/a ... n_in_syria

AMY GOODMAN: We turn now to Libya, which has just marked the first anniversary of the start of the uprising that toppled Mummar Gaddafi’s four-decade rule. On Friday, thousands of people turned out for celebrations in Tripoli and Benghazi, Misurata and other towns. Another milestone was reached Monday, when Misurata residents elected a new city council in the first election since Gaddafi’s fall.

But as Libya celebrates a new era free of the Gaddafi regime, there are growing concerns the country’s lingering divisions will tear it apart. Libya remains deeply splintered by regions and factions. More than 500 militias exist throughout the country, leading to ongoing human rights abuses that resemble those under the Gaddafi regime.

In a report last week, Amnesty International said armed militias are committing human rights violations without punishment, with alleged Gaddafi loyalists suffering the worst abuses. The report’s co-author, Amnesty’s Carsten Jürgensen, said torture is widespread.

CARSTEN JÜRGENSEN: Horrific images of people who have been tortured and abused, people who have been tortured very recently when we saw them, in some cases only hours before. In fact, my colleagues saw detainees being beaten in a courtyard of a prison. And people have shown us, you know, obvious traces of torture, being whipped, or people also told us they have been subjected to electric shocks. People have been beaten by all sorts of objects.

AMY GOODMAN: The ongoing abuses in Libya have been far overshadowed by the crisis in Syria, where thousands of people have died in what is likely the Arab Spring’s bloodiest conflict to date. With estimates of well over 5,000 deaths, the shocking toll in Syria has sparked ongoing calls for international intervention to stop the bloodshed. Speaking Monday in Cairo, Republican Senator John McCain called for the arming of the Syrian rebels by countries other than the United States.

SEN. JOHN McCAIN: I am not saying that the United States needs to directly supply arms to the Syrian National Army. I am saying that there are ways to get assistance, ranging from medical assistance to technical assistance, such as GPS and other things that we could provide the Syrian National Army, support of the Syrian National Council, and there are ways to get weapons into Syria. It is time we gave them the wherewithal to fight back and stop the slaughter.

AMY GOODMAN: Efforts at a united international response to the Syrian crisis have faltered over a major division between the U.S., European Union and Arab League, on one side, and Russia and China, on the other. Earlier this month, Russia and China vetoed a Security Council resolution condemning the Assad regime’s crackdown. The U.N. General Assembly passed a measure with similar language just last week. Later this week, Syrian opposition leaders plan to hold talks with international officials at a "Friends of Syria" meeting in Tunis. The 22-member Arab League has endorsed the meeting, and the U.S., European Union and Russia are among those invited to attend.

Well, in this month marking the first anniversary of the Libyan uprising, I’m joined by Vijay Prashad, who argues the NATO intervention in Libya offers key lessons for the debate over an international response to Syria. Vijay Prashad is chair in South Asian History and professor of international studies at Trinity College in Hartford, Connecticut, author of twelve books, most recently The Darker Nations: A People’s History of the Third World. His forthcoming book, to be released in April, is called Arab Spring, Libyan Winter. He’s joining us from Chicopee, Massachusetts.

Professor Prashad, welcome to Democracy Now! Talk about what’s happened in Libya in this year.

VIJAY PRASHAD: Well, of course, there has been the uprising a year ago. The uprising, it seems to me, within a month of breaking out in February, had gained immense momentum. And at its highest point, it was at the time when NATO decided to intervene. There was a conversion of an uprising, an internal civil war, into a NATO intervention. By May, there were already concerns from Amnesty International that there were maybe atrocities by NATO, by rebel forces and by Gaddafi’s troops, that it was a very dangerous soup of violence in Libya. This, Amnesty said in May of last year. The, basically, struggle ended by September, October.

In October, Amnesty did another very important report suggesting that if human rights is going to be used as a lubricant for intervention, one has to be very careful to continue to investigate the violence. One has to not only document violence, but also see that the perpetrators are prosecuted. And one has to bring a society to some kind of closure. This is what Amnesty began to say in October. Those were very prescient words from Amnesty, because, indeed, what Amnesty had proposed has not happened since October.

And Libya today, for all the jubilation about the removal of Gaddafi, who without question was an authoritarian dictator, without all—you know, without setting aside that jubilation, there are some serious questions about the future of Libya. In Misurata, yes, you’re right, there was an election on Monday to create a new city council. At the same time, Médecins Sans Frontières withdrew its entire team, because they are worried about the custodial deaths and extrajudicial torture that is taking place. In the town of Kufra, in the south of Libya, there is the continuation of the war. Weapons are all across the country.

So there is a serious need to evaluate what has happened in Libya as a result not only of the Gaddafi atrocities, of the rise of a rebellion, but also significantly of the nature of the NATO intervention. And that evaluation has not happened. I’m afraid that is really calling into question the use of human rights as a lubricant for intervention. If we can’t go back and evaluate what has happened, I think a lot of people around the world are afraid of going forward into another intervention, where the lessons of Libya have not been learned.

AMY GOODMAN: Late last year, the United Nations Security Council rejected a probe into the deaths of civilians during the NATO bombing of Libya. At the time, the Russian ambassador to the United Nations, Vitaly Churkin, said a probe is needed to determine the exact toll.

AMB. VITALY CHURKIN: The matter of civilian casualties, we believe, is particularly—from the bombing campaign, is particularly important, because we need to have a serious analysis. Some members of the Council, I can share with you, thought that somehow it was a diversion from Syria, from—coming from us, asking why we’re not discussing Syria. I gave a very simple response: because today we are discussing Libya. It is on our agenda. So it’s a matter coming out of the situation in Libya. So, this is where it stands now.

AMY GOODMAN: The United States refused to allow a U.N. Security Council probe into Libyan civilian deaths. In response to the proposal, U.S. Ambassador Susan Rice accused Russia of trying to distract from its opposition to a measure condemning the Syrian crackdown.

AMB. SUSAN RICE: This is a distraction and a diversion, and it is a diversion from the fact that this Council’s actions, and that of NATO and its partners, save tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of Libyan lives. That is something we should be celebrating. It is certainly something that the people of Libya are celebrating. And if the Libyans want to work with NATO to investigate any concerns they have, we’re more than willing to do that. I think it’s notable that we have not heard that call from the Libyan government. So, let us—let us see this for what it is. This is duplicative, it’s redundant, it’s superfluous, and it’s a stunt.

AMY GOODMAN: That’s the U.S. U.N. ambassador, Susan Rice. Vijay Prasad, your response?

VIJAY PRASHAD: Well, I mean, it’s very interesting that Ambassador Rice says, "Let us hear it from the Libyans." The question is—the Libyans right now barely have control over the state. They barely have monopoly over violence in the country itself. The government is not fully formed. To expect them to come out and ask for a NATO probe at the same time as there are 8,500 extrajudicial detainees inside Libyan jails is rather, I think, a distraction in itself.

The real question is, why won’t NATO allow an evaluation of the Libyan war? What if we discover that the number of civilian casualties, the bombing in places like Marjah, the bombing in places in the center of Tripoli, had indeed cost the lives of a very large number of civilians? What is the harm of NATO coming under an evaluation? It will demonstrate, for instance, the actual commitment to human rights and to responsibility to protect civilians that the United States purports to support. So, the fact that they are not allowing an evaluation causes concern around the world. It means, perhaps, that the bombing campaigns are not going to protect civilians. They might, in fact, exacerbate the danger to civilians.

You know, you have to keep in mind that when the U.N. human rights chief, Navi Pillay, wanted to speak about Libya, the U.N. General—the U.N. Security Council said, "You can present your report on Syria, but it must be done—on Libya, but the Libyan report must be done in a closed session." The Syrian report produced by human rights chair, Navi Pillay, could be done in an open session. In other words, it seems as if the West and NATO, in particular, does not want to have a discussion about Libya in public, but it wants to utilize human rights as a way to start wars, not a way to evaluate what has happened in a society.

Libya is going to suffer from a lack of truth and reconciliation, from a lack of evaluation of the full cycle of human rights investigation to prosecution. You have to remember that when the head of the International Criminal Court, Mr. Moreno Ocampo, decided to frame arrest warrants against Gaddafi, Abdullah Senussi and Saif al-Islam Gaddafi, he framed those warrants immediately. Saif al-Islam Gaddafi was arrested last year and is continuing to be held without being handed over to the ICC. And the ICC—nor has NATO asked for habeas corpus, in other words, the delivery of Saif al-Islam for trial in the International Criminal Court. These are serious questions about the truncating of a human rights process towards war making rather than towards peace making. So I don’t see this as a distraction; I see this as the fundamental question.

And it is precisely why the Russians and the Chinese are loathe to give another open-ended resolution to allow NATO to continue war making in Syria. They have said quite clearly that unless the resolution says this is not going to invoke Chapter 7, Article 42, of the U.N. Charter—in other words, the right to make war or to preserve the principles of the United Nations—unless it says specifically that this resolution is not under Chapter 7, we cannot sign on to it. So, I think there are some serious issues at stake. This veto by the Russians and the Chinese is not disgusting or a distraction. It’s about the principles involved here and whether this is just about a power grab by the West or a genuine concern for the people of Libya and Syria.

AMY GOODMAN: Vijay Prashad, we’ll leave it there. I thank you so much for being with us, professor at Trinity College. His latest book, just coming out, Arab Spring, Libyan Winter, it’s out in April.

[Ibrahim]

That's strange, it's been months since Gaddafi was deposed, I thought Libya would look like Switzerland by now.

Goes to show you, the Arab is an inferior creature. Anarchy and bloodshed are his natural element, unless kept under the boot of the dictator. It's the duty of the White Race to civilize him, but it may be a long road. The disgusting wogs haven't even mastered the technology to murder people with remote controlled airplanes, they are still killing people by hand. Animals.

At least their antics are a source of amusement for their betters.

[monster_gardener]

That's strange, it's been months since Gaddafi was deposed, I thought Libya would look like Switzerland by now.

Goes to show you, the Arab is an inferior creature. Anarchy and bloodshed are his natural element, unless kept under the boot of the dictator. It's the duty of the White Race to civilize him, but it may be a long road. The disgusting wogs haven't even mastered the technology to murder people with remote controlled airplanes, they are still killing people by hand. Animals.

At least their antics are a source of amusement for their betters.

Thank You Very Much for your post, Ibrahim.

Goes to show you, the Arab is an inferior creature. Anarchy and bloodshed are his natural element, unless kept under the boot of the dictator.

From the Tanakh/OT........ right after an atrocity............

"In those days there was no King in the land and every man did what was right in his own eyes........... "

Got to give it to the writers of the Tanakh....... Not much hiding of the dirty laundry ....

G_d's very peculiar people but not always "the best of men"...........

It's the duty of the White Race to civilize him, but it may be a long road.

Not so much. Post Hitler, the Sherrif's star of the "White" Race is a bit tarnished.......

And we/US/UhmeriKuns haven't shown the Right Stuff taking out the Trash in Afgahnistan .................

We/US/Uz did better with the Huns/Nazis ..........


Maybe it will be the "Yellow" Chinese............ or the "tan" Iranians or "brown" Indians.......

IIRC the Indians under repentant Buddhist King Malinda managed to civilize the Afgahns to a very high standard..... till a malignant meme called Islam infected.


Or maybe we/US/uz/the World should just let the amazingly guerrilla Afgahns merrily murder each other or elect a good King so long as they and their guests keep it inside their own borders ........

Could come in handy if another Hitler/Genghis tried to conquer the world......... Yeah sure, try to conquer Afghanistan in habitable condition.........


No.. one duty of the "White" Race/the West should be to assure that malignant strains the Arab Cultural Meme, Islam, don't take root here ....

While at the same time guarding against our own malignant strains: Christian Dominionism a la "Snake Oil Salesman" Gary North, the Christian Identity Movement of the KKK which grades into the "Your Race Shall Be Your Religion" of the American Nazis/Turner Diaries........

And Imperial Overreaching reaching for "Democracy" which so damaged the Athenian Republic too.......

And other Western malignant meme I don't have time to detail here....... Wasteful Throw Away Society......... FIRE economy........ etc.

And Ideally to get US/the World off this Insane Asylum Planet into multiple outer space habitats where each insane meme can be happily by itself until it finds internal divisions........

But at least all the eggs won't be in one basket

The disgusting wogs haven't even mastered the technology to murder people with remote controlled airplanes, they are still killing people by hand. Animals.

A. Bertram Chandler pondered whether it mattered if a man was boiled in oil or by thermal neutrons........... I say yes... it does matter for the survival of a race on a single planet....

But Chandler is right that the Medievals with their boiling oil & stoning share the evil of the Moderns who use the black magic of Nukes and other WMD........

And I worry about our/US/uz slide toward a Phillip K. Dick/Vernor Vinge*/Harlan Ellison future of killer robots and similar...........


*Not sure if he was the author of a story about RPVs where the RPVs were grading into cyborgs.........

Talking more about Afgahnistan than Libya but the same elements are there............ Malignant strains of Islam, Tribalism........ etc.

And in Syria............. Don't knock off the King if the chaos to follow will be worse..............

Is Turkey willing/able to take over Syria after it lights up Eye Doctor Assad's tanks..............

And protect the Millet(s) in the Granary better than it did with the Armenian wheat in Van of the Cats ................

While Turkey already has trouble with the Cheesy Kurds* trying to get their Whey

*Who threshed the Armenian wheat for the Turk but now are blow back** on him.

**As 911 was blow back on US/uz for meddling with Mujaheddin against the Soviets......

[Hans Bulvai]

Yawn...
I am sure it will look like Switzerland in the next 10 years.
Let's just hope it does not look like Italy today; or Greece for that matter.

http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2 ... 96606.html

Libya army deployed to Kufra after deadly clashes: chief
Thursday, 23 February 2012


Tripoli

Libya’s army chief on Thursday said troops were preparing to enter the southeastern desert city of Kufra, to secure the area that has been at the heart of deadly ethnic clashes.

“Units of the national army are at the airport of Kufra and will enter the city to secure it,” Yussef al-Mangush told reporters in Tripoli, adding that the situation had been calm since Wednesday.

Meanwhile, the United Nations special envoy to Libya, Ian Marti, said humanitarian agencies “were on their way to Kufra now to assess the situation there.”

At least 113 people from the Toubu tribe and another 23 from the Zwai tribe have been killed since clashes erupted on Feb. 12, according to tribal sources.

Mangush said he was unable to give an “exact toll.”

Martin faced the same problem: “At this stage we cannot offer an independent assessment of the scale of casualties.”

“But it is clear that many people have lost their lives and that there are urgent needs for medical attention to a substantive number of people who have been seriously wounded,” he said.

Kufra, a town of about 40,000, is located in a triangle where the borders of Egypt, Chad and Sudan join.

The Toubu, who are dark-skinned and present in southeastern Libya as well as in Chad, Sudan and Niger, faced discrimination under the regime of former Libyan leader Muammar Qaddafi.

The U.N. envoy excluded the possibility of an international intervention

“Obviously, because it is happening in a border area, there may be regional concerns. But I believe that the Libyan national authorities are seeking to do what they should, which is try to mediate an end to the conflict.”

“At this stage, the only United Nations involvement is humanitarian,” Martin added.

[monster_gardener]

Yawn...
I am sure it will look like Switzerland in the next 10 years.
Let's just hope it does not look like Italy today; or Greece for that matter.

http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2 ... 96606.html

Libya army deployed to Kufra after deadly clashes: chief
Thursday, 23 February 2012


Tripoli

Libya’s army chief on Thursday said troops were preparing to enter the southeastern desert city of Kufra, to secure the area that has been at the heart of deadly ethnic clashes.

“Units of the national army are at the airport of Kufra and will enter the city to secure it,” Yussef al-Mangush told reporters in Tripoli, adding that the situation had been calm since Wednesday.

Meanwhile, the United Nations special envoy to Libya, Ian Marti, said humanitarian agencies “were on their way to Kufra now to assess the situation there.”

At least 113 people from the Toubu tribe and another 23 from the Zwai tribe have been killed since clashes erupted on Feb. 12, according to tribal sources.

Mangush said he was unable to give an “exact toll.”

Martin faced the same problem: “At this stage we cannot offer an independent assessment of the scale of casualties.”

“But it is clear that many people have lost their lives and that there are urgent needs for medical attention to a substantive number of people who have been seriously wounded,” he said.

Kufra, a town of about 40,000, is located in a triangle where the borders of Egypt, Chad and Sudan join.

The Toubu, who are dark-skinned and present in southeastern Libya as well as in Chad, Sudan and Niger, faced discrimination under the regime of former Libyan leader Muammar Qaddafi.

The U.N. envoy excluded the possibility of an international intervention

“Obviously, because it is happening in a border area, there may be regional concerns. But I believe that the Libyan national authorities are seeking to do what they should, which is try to mediate an end to the conflict.”

“At this stage, the only United Nations involvement is humanitarian,” Martin added.

Thank you Very Much for your post, Hans.

Yawn...

Boredom can be good........... Often.......... Not always............ But sometimes.........

Learn to meditate........ Pray............... Or garden...........

Worked wonderfully for Diocletian the wise pagan Roman Emperor who retired.........

Also for Candide...........

Chinese curse: "May you live in interesting times"

I am sure it will look like Switzerland in the next 10 years.

That would be a wonderful miracle to pray & garden for.........

Grow/ferment your own: both food and otherwise so that you will not be as vulnerable when the Banksters speculate food to high prices

Or you/it won't care/matter as much anyway

Need to try that with motor fuel too............. Banksters are busy there right now.........

A Canton for each tribe/religious division maybe..........


The Swiss had their problems before they became the Apple & Cheese of Europe........

Not Tell ing you anything you don't know already.......

[AzariLoveIran]

.

UN is preparing to adopt a report praising the human rights record of the of former government of deposed Libyan ruler Muammar Gaddafi, in a move a UN monitoring NGO said would bring embarrassment to international rights organization.


told you guys

Qaddafi was best Arab speakers had .. Assad too one of best

All those sheiks pure play POS

.
In the report, the Gaddafi regime touted "its pioneering experience in the field of wealth distribution and labor rights."

Included in the UPR report are member state rights recommendations for the Gaddafi regime, including on how to deal with refugees in the country, and abolishing the death penalty.

Among the member states praising Libya's human rights record under the Gaddafi regime are other Middle Eastern countries facing criticism over abuses that emerged during the so-called Arab Spring protests that have spread throughout the region since the end of 2010, including Syria, Bahrain, Tunisia and Egypt.
.

.

[Hans Bulvai]

Yawn...
I am sure it will look like Switzerland in the next 10 years.
Let's just hope it does not look like Italy today; or Greece for that matter.

http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2 ... 96606.html

Libya army deployed to Kufra after deadly clashes: chief
Thursday, 23 February 2012


Tripoli

Libya’s army chief on Thursday said troops were preparing to enter the southeastern desert city of Kufra, to secure the area that has been at the heart of deadly ethnic clashes.

“Units of the national army are at the airport of Kufra and will enter the city to secure it,” Yussef al-Mangush told reporters in Tripoli, adding that the situation had been calm since Wednesday.

Meanwhile, the United Nations special envoy to Libya, Ian Marti, said humanitarian agencies “were on their way to Kufra now to assess the situation there.”

At least 113 people from the Toubu tribe and another 23 from the Zwai tribe have been killed since clashes erupted on Feb. 12, according to tribal sources.

Mangush said he was unable to give an “exact toll.”

Martin faced the same problem: “At this stage we cannot offer an independent assessment of the scale of casualties.”

“But it is clear that many people have lost their lives and that there are urgent needs for medical attention to a substantive number of people who have been seriously wounded,” he said.

Kufra, a town of about 40,000, is located in a triangle where the borders of Egypt, Chad and Sudan join.

The Toubu, who are dark-skinned and present in southeastern Libya as well as in Chad, Sudan and Niger, faced discrimination under the regime of former Libyan leader Muammar Qaddafi.

The U.N. envoy excluded the possibility of an international intervention

“Obviously, because it is happening in a border area, there may be regional concerns. But I believe that the Libyan national authorities are seeking to do what they should, which is try to mediate an end to the conflict.”

“At this stage, the only United Nations involvement is humanitarian,” Martin added.

Thank you Very Much for your post, Hans.

Yawn...

Boredom can be good........... Often.......... Not always............ But sometimes.........

Learn to meditate........ Pray............... Or garden...........

Worked wonderfully for Diocletian the wise pagan Roman Emperor who retired.........

Also for Candide...........

Chinese curse: "May you live in interesting times"

I am sure it will look like Switzerland in the next 10 years.

That would be a wonderful miracle to pray & garden for.........

Grow/ferment your own: both food and otherwise so that you will not be as vulnerable when the Banksters speculate food to high prices

Or you/it won't care/matter as much anyway

Need to try that with motor fuel too............. Banksters are busy there right now.........

A Canton for each tribe/religious division maybe..........


The Swiss had their problems before they became the Apple & Cheese of Europe........

Not Tell ing you anything you don't know already.......

Arabs need a strongman. Fair but for sure iron fisted. The Prophet comes to mind.

None of those recently overthrown, or soon to be, fit that bill. None coming to take their place will either.
100's of years of living under someone's boot will make sure of that. Meaningful change comes from within. They are not ready. And the world is not ready for it either it seems.

BTW, I do garden but had to hang my shears last summer due to the extreme drought we had 'round here. My yard looks like lavender. I kept my roses and flowers alive but the grass is gone. Hope this summer is not the same as last.

[Ibrahim]

Arabs need a strongman.

No.

Fair but for sure iron fisted.

Who decides fair, and why iron-fisted? Arabs are some inferior race that need to be controlled by force, unlike you and yours?

The Prophet comes to mind.

No. Gross comparison.

Meaningful change comes from within.

From within a fortune cookie apparently.

[monster_gardener]

Yawn...
I am sure it will look like Switzerland in the next 10 years.
Let's just hope it does not look like Italy today; or Greece for that matter.

http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2 ... 96606.html

Libya army deployed to Kufra after deadly clashes: chief
Thursday, 23 February 2012


Tripoli

Libya’s army chief on Thursday said troops were preparing to enter the southeastern desert city of Kufra, to secure the area that has been at the heart of deadly ethnic clashes.

“Units of the national army are at the airport of Kufra and will enter the city to secure it,” Yussef al-Mangush told reporters in Tripoli, adding that the situation had been calm since Wednesday.

Meanwhile, the United Nations special envoy to Libya, Ian Marti, said humanitarian agencies “were on their way to Kufra now to assess the situation there.”

At least 113 people from the Toubu tribe and another 23 from the Zwai tribe have been killed since clashes erupted on Feb. 12, according to tribal sources.

Mangush said he was unable to give an “exact toll.”

Martin faced the same problem: “At this stage we cannot offer an independent assessment of the scale of casualties.”

“But it is clear that many people have lost their lives and that there are urgent needs for medical attention to a substantive number of people who have been seriously wounded,” he said.

Kufra, a town of about 40,000, is located in a triangle where the borders of Egypt, Chad and Sudan join.

The Toubu, who are dark-skinned and present in southeastern Libya as well as in Chad, Sudan and Niger, faced discrimination under the regime of former Libyan leader Muammar Qaddafi.

The U.N. envoy excluded the possibility of an international intervention

“Obviously, because it is happening in a border area, there may be regional concerns. But I believe that the Libyan national authorities are seeking to do what they should, which is try to mediate an end to the conflict.”

“At this stage, the only United Nations involvement is humanitarian,” Martin added.

Thank you Very Much for your post, Hans.

Yawn...

Boredom can be good........... Often.......... Not always............ But sometimes.........

Learn to meditate........ Pray............... Or garden...........

Worked wonderfully for Diocletian the wise pagan Roman Emperor who retired.........

Also for Candide...........

Chinese curse: "May you live in interesting times"

I am sure it will look like Switzerland in the next 10 years.

That would be a wonderful miracle to pray & garden for.........

Grow/ferment your own: both food and otherwise so that you will not be as vulnerable when the Banksters speculate food to high prices

Or you/it won't care/matter as much anyway

Need to try that with motor fuel too............. Banksters are busy there right now.........

A Canton for each tribe/religious division maybe..........


The Swiss had their problems before they became the Apple & Cheese of Europe........

Not Tell ing you anything you don't know already.......

Arabs need a strongman. Fair but for sure iron fisted. The Prophet comes to mind.

None of those recently overthrown, or soon to be, fit that bill. None coming to take their place will either.
100's of years of living under someone's boot will make sure of that. Meaningful change comes from within. They are not ready. And the world is not ready for it either it seems.

BTW, I do garden but had to hang my shears last summer due to the extreme drought we had 'round here. My yard looks like lavender. I kept my roses and flowers alive but the grass is gone. Hope this summer is not the same as last.

Thank you Very Much for your post, Hans.

BTW, I do garden but had to hang my shears last summer due to the extreme drought we had 'round here. My yard looks like lavender. I kept my roses and flowers alive but the grass is gone. Hope this summer is not the same as last.

Agreed.........

2011 was not a great year for tomatoes but I did OK..... not great.......

Perhaps because I used mulch. Mulch can help retain soil moisture.

You might also want to try "water crystals" especially in containers........

Water Absorbing Polymers In Containers

Growing plants in containers is fun and very satisfying. However, one of the drawbacks of a container garden is that it needs watering more often than does the soil in garden beds. In fact, a container planting can dry out very quickly causing great stress on the plants.

While it is optional, we advise yardeners to include a water absorbing polymer gel with the potting mix when setting up a container garden. These magical crystals will cut your watering needs by one third to one half. You can buy soilless mix with these polymer crystals already included, or you can introduce the polymers yourself as you prepare to plant your container. For details on how these water absorbing polymers work go to Understanding Polymers.

http://yardener.com/YardenersPlantHelpe ... Containers

I do it a bit differently: most at the bottom of the pot..........

What are you planning to grow this year?

Note: I'm planning to do Tomato, Peppers & Herbs as usual......... Have some kale growing now..........

[AzariLoveIran]

.

Libyan rebels cage black Africans in zoo, force feed them flags

.
A shocking video has appeared on the Internet showing Libyan rebels torturing a group of black Africans. People with their hands bound are shown being locked in a zoo-like cage and allegedly forced to eat the old Libyan flag.

­“Eat the flag, you dog. Patience you dog, patience. God is Great,” screams a voice off-camera in the video uploaded to YouTube last week, which also made its way onto LiveLeak.com.

The torturers are also shown making the group of captive black Africans stand up with pieces of green cloth still in their mouths and apparently forcing them start jumping.

A number of people are shown standing outside the cage watching the atrocity.

After Muammar Gaddafi was killed, hundreds of migrant workers from neighboring states were imprisoned by fighters allied to the new interim authorities.

They accuse the black Africans of having been mercenaries for the late ruler.
.

This intentional attempt by French and Brits to generate animosity in African continent for economic gains .. steal African resources


.


.

[AzariLoveIran]

.

If Benghazi declares autonomy, he told Reuters, “We will turn off their oil.”


Autonomy in Libya's East


things not done yet


.

[AzariLoveIran]

.

It is a “tragic mistake … a fatal mistake” to abandon Libya at this time, said the former leader of the Transitional National Council. “Libya is in a political and security vacuum, and vacuums do not remain vacuums. Extremism might spread at any moment,” Mr. Jibril warned. “I am afraid that early indicators are there right now.”


.

[Hans Bulvai]

Army sent to quell clashes in western Libya

TRIPOLI (Reuters) - Libya's government has sent troops to put an end to six days of clashes between rival militias in the west of the country, the latest spasm of instability eight months after Muammar Gaddafi's overthrow.

As it seeks to impose its authority on a fractious country, Libya's new leadership on Saturday called for an immediate ceasefire in the fighting south of the capital, in which at least 14 people have been killed and 89 injured.

[Ibrahim]

These clashes in the Southern deserts seem to be mostly tribal affairs. A word too often used in the the West when discussing anything East of Vienna or South of Marseilles, but in this case literally true. Tuareg and Bedouin tribes are fighting it out for control of towns now that Gaddafi's centralized authority is gone. I don't think this amounts to much politically, but it will be unpleasant for those living in the warzone.


More worrying are various urban militias in Banghazi and Tripoli. These are at best MB and at worst AQ types who could use violence to influence Libyan politics on a national level.

[AzariLoveIran]

.

These clashes in the Southern deserts seem to be mostly tribal affairs. A word too often used in the the West when discussing anything East of Vienna or South of Marseilles, but in this case literally true. Tuareg and Bedouin tribes are fighting it out for control of towns now that Gaddafi's centralized authority is gone. I don't think this amounts to much politically, but it will be unpleasant for those living in the warzone.

More worrying are various urban militias in Banghazi and Tripoli. These are at best MB and at worst AQ types who could use violence to influence Libyan politics on a national level.

.

West does not care even if all Libyan's kill each other .. am sure west agitating and instigating tribal wars .. western interest is a weak central authority that would not hesitate to sign on dotted line on any occasion

Oil is taken without even metering, let alone paying for .. all Libyan reserves, money and Gold, usurped by west

Who cares about Libyans, genuflect them all is the mindset





.

[Ammianus]

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archive ... tion=false

Eight months after Muammar Qaddafi’s overthrow, journalists seeking wars in Libya have to journey deep into the Sahara and beyond the horizons of most Libyans to find them. A senior official of Libya’s temporary ruling body, the National Transitional Council (NTC), flippantly waved away an invitation to leave his residence at the Rixos, Qaddafi’s palatial Tripoli hotel, to join a fact-finding delegation to Kufra, a trading post 1,300 kilometers to the southeast, near Sudan and Chad. “Isn’t it Africa?” he asks.

Yet for Libya’s new governors, the turbulent south—home to Libya’s wells of water and oil—is unnerving. Since Mustafa Abdel Jalil, the NTC chairman, declared an end to the civil war last October, the violence in the south is worse than it was during the struggle to oust Qaddafi. Hundreds have been killed, thousands injured, and, according to UN figures, tens of thousands displaced in ethnic feuding. Without its dictator to keep the lid on, the country, it seems, is boiling over the sides....................................
Nowhere are the militias stronger than in Benghazi, the eastern city where Libya’s “rebelution” began. After a year of paralysis, the goodwill that still keeps the wheels of central authority turning in Tripoli has evaporated here. The courthouse, beneath which tens of thousands gathered to hail the new rulers in the first days of the uprising, is boarded up. Its leaders have long since left for the plusher world of Tripoli, lured by free accommodation in the marble decadence of the city’s Rixos Hotel. Left behind, Benghazi languishes, as before the revolution, in a perpetual ghayla—the siesta that Libyans take between the midday and late afternoon prayers. The dirt and dust of abandonment coat the city along with smoke from a thousand burning refuse piles. “At least there was a system before,” I was told by a middle-aged soccer fan, whose al-Ahli team shut down after its chairman fled to Egypt with the company’s proceeds. “Now there is nothing.”

Strikes are the exception in Tripoli but they have become the norm in Benghazi. The war wounded have set up a roadblock along the coastal road to force the government to pay for their medical treatment abroad. Gasoline haulers demanding pay hikes park their trucks outside garages. The headquarters of Agoco, the national oil company’s eastern subsidiary, which functioned for the first months of the revolution and through which much of the country’s oil flows, was closed for four weeks in April and May. On the day that I visited, picketers had barricaded its gates. “We protected the company from Qaddafi with our lives and it gave us nothing back,” says a protester. He said he was a cleaner fired earlier this year to make way for newly arrived and cheaper Bangladeshis.

With the collapse of central authority, militias rule in and around Benghazi. The day I arrived there hundreds of militia members had converged on the city for a congress aimed at unifying their ranks and reclaiming what they see as their rightful inheritance from the NTC and whatever elected authority might follow. “Benghazi paid the price, and Tripoli takes the profits,” declared the organizer, as he spoke from the podium after the militiamen had feasted beneath a golden canopy, regaling each other with past exploits.

Paraplegics paraded their untreated injuries, shouting war cries and accusing the health minister of pilfering the funds for their treatment. A skinhead in jeans and a camouflage jacket pranced across the stage, claiming he had killed Qaddafi, only to be denied his prize money. “I was a taxi driver before, and I’m a taxi driver now,” I was told by Ahmed Sweib of the Lions of Libya Brigade. (He drives a blue-metallic two-door Daewoo with the word PUNISHER stenciled on the back window in Gothic capitals, and black flames painted on the side. The car has a German license plate.)

Many of the former militiamen appear as mentally battered as the buildings they fought for in the eight months of bloodshed. “They returned from the front line, from war, to find no one wanted them,” I was told by a psychiatrist who ran a soup kitchen on the front. “They thought they were heroes, and were treated as troublemakers. That’s why they act so boisterously and aggressively. That’s why they say Libya needs another revolution.”

Their capacity for being spoilers is substantial, whether of the electoral process or the system of government. “Revolutionaries have to lead the country of the revolution,” says Hussein bin Ahmed, an oil engineer turned general coordinator for preventative security, who acted as host for the militias’ congress in his headquarters. In their concluding session, delegates resolved not to hand over weapons “to those who killed us”—that is, the NTC’s formal army, which they see as recruited from old regime forces—and some delegates drew up plans for a united militia to protect the revolution.

Some at least seemed prepared to use force to defend their powers. When the UN’s Ian Martin arrived outside an Interior Ministry office in Benghazi to discuss plans for security sector reform, someone hurled a gelignite stick under his armored car. Two NTC members have been kidnapped for supporting—in view of widespread fraud—the cancellation by the council of handouts for militiamen. On May 8, two hundred militiamen opened fire on the prime minister’s Tripoli office with anti-tank guns, forcing the unfortunate al-Keib to briefly take flight.

Against such pressures, there are signs that the NTC is buckling. It has agreed to establish a Patriotism and Integrity Commission, a star chamber for de-Qaddafization, which will vet all appointments from officials to electoral candidates. Abdel Hafiz Ghoga, a Benghazi lawyer who announced the NTC’s formation in the early days of the uprising, lost his NTC post amid accusations of being an associate of Qaddafi’s son Seif al-Islam. Some want Mustafa Abdel Jalil, Qaddafi’s justice minister who replaced him, and his first prime minister, Mahmoud Jibreel, another of Seif’s appointees, to suffer a similar fate.

More sober voices caution that the root-and-branch elimination of all remnants of the old civil service and security forces will precipitate the country’s collapse, as happened for some years in Iraq. A poet I met at the Amazigh rally in Tripoli told me, “Everyone blames the vestiges of the old order for their woes, as if they had no association with it. But the truth is we were all complicit. We had to survive.” A Salafi car dealer, who spent years in Qaddafi’s torture chamber of Bu Salim and has a job in the Interior Ministry, warns of repeating the mistakes of France’s postrevolutionary reign of terror. Quoting an eighteenth-century revolutionary who was subsequently guillotined, he warns, “Like Saturn, the revolution is devouring its children.” And then he adds, “A small country cannot afford such a loss of qualified staff.”

[Ibrahim]

http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/i ... JI20120712

Libya's Jibril in election landslide over Islamists
By Hadeel Al Shalchi and Marie-Louise Gumuchian

TRIPOLI (Reuters) - The moderate National Forces Alliance of wartime prime minister Mahmoud Jibril scored a landslide victory over rival Islamist parties in Libya's first free national election in a generation, partial tallies showed on Thursday.

Counts from across the North African country attested to a resounding defeat for the political wing of Libya's Muslim Brotherhood, bucking a trend of success for Islamist groups in other Arab Spring countries such as Egypt and Tunisia.

Final official results are not due until next week. But with a large majority of votes counted, Jibril's alliance had unbeatable leads in Tripoli, the desert south, and the eastern city of Benghazi, the cradle of last year's rebellion against 42 years of Muammar Gaddafi's rule.

"The people saw in Jibril an openness to the rest of the world and they craved this openness after being closed off by Gaddafi," Libyan political analyst Nasser Ahdash said of the Western-educated politician who became the face of last year's uprising.

Another Islamist group, the al-Watan ("Homeland") party of former Islamist militant Abdul Hakim Belhadj, failed to take off. Belhadj was even set to lose in his Tripoli constituency.

[monster_gardener]

http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/i ... JI20120712

Libya's Jibril in election landslide over Islamists
By Hadeel Al Shalchi and Marie-Louise Gumuchian

TRIPOLI (Reuters) - The moderate National Forces Alliance of wartime prime minister Mahmoud Jibril scored a landslide victory over rival Islamist parties in Libya's first free national election in a generation, partial tallies showed on Thursday.

Counts from across the North African country attested to a resounding defeat for the political wing of Libya's Muslim Brotherhood, bucking a trend of success for Islamist groups in other Arab Spring countries such as Egypt and Tunisia.

Final official results are not due until next week. But with a large majority of votes counted, Jibril's alliance had unbeatable leads in Tripoli, the desert south, and the eastern city of Benghazi, the cradle of last year's rebellion against 42 years of Muammar Gaddafi's rule.

"The people saw in Jibril an openness to the rest of the world and they craved this openness after being closed off by Gaddafi," Libyan political analyst Nasser Ahdash said of the Western-educated politician who became the face of last year's uprising.

Another Islamist group, the al-Watan ("Homeland") party of former Islamist militant Abdul Hakim Belhadj, failed to take off. Belhadj was even set to lose in his Tripoli constituency.

Thank you Very Much for your post, Ibrahim.

Congratulations..........

Sounds like there is a chance that you were right about Libya.......

Maybe a decent civil society has a chance there..... unlike Saudi Arabia with its Muttawen, Taliban Afghanistan, the Iranian Fashion Police and the way Egypt seems to be going...... Beards and Prayer Bruises getting longer and darker overnight................

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Jibril

Not as much info as I would like but I note two good things.......

On 21 August, amidst the Battle of Tripoli, Jibril gave a televised speech urging revolutionary fighters against looting, revenge killing, abusing foreign nationals, and mistreating prisoners of war. He also called for unity and asked that police and army units in Tripoli disavow Gaddafi but remain at their posts. Jibril declared, "Today, all Libya's people are allowed to participate in the building of the future to build institutions with the aid of a constitution that does not differentiate between a man and a woman, sects or ethnicities. Libya is for everyone and will now be for everyone. Libya has the right to create an example that will be followed in the Arab region

and..........

Resignation

On 3 October 2011, Jibril announced that he would resign from government once the country had been "liberated".[30] He later specified this meant the capture of Sirte from loyalist holdouts.[31] On 20 October 2011, Sirte was captured and Muammar Gaddafi was killed. Keeping his promise to leave at the war's end, Jibril resigned three days later. He was succeeded by Abdurrahim El-Keib on 31 October.

Maybe........ Libya has gotten lucky....... Like Uz did with George Washington, the Man Who Would NOT be King.........

Hope so...........

[Ammianus]

Arabs need a strongman. Fair but for sure iron fisted. The Prophet comes to mind.
None of those recently overthrown, or soon to be, fit that bill. None coming to take their place will either.
100's of years of living under someone's boot will make sure of that. Meaningful change comes from within. They are not ready. And the world is not ready for it either it seems.

BTW, I do garden but had to hang my shears last summer due to the extreme drought we had 'round here. My yard looks like lavender. I kept my roses and flowers alive but the grass is gone. Hope this summer is not the same as last.

I know this is late, dreadfully late, but...but ........(guffawing)...

BWHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Holy moly mother of moly , the day when Hans Bulvai turned into a Arabaphobe, Democracy Skeptic/Hater Clone from a chip off the old block Spenglerman has finally arrived ! You know, one thing I can at least love about the Arab Revolutions, despite all the ceaseless anxieties, heartburns, and horrors they've caused is that they served as a long overdue stick of stoopid that have lobotomized both the far left and the far right equally and successfully, exposing their gaping and rotting irrationality, hypocrisy, and underling derangement for all to see. On one hand you have the anti-American/IsraHeil crowds such as Pepe Escobar and Global Research who backed Mubarak's overthrow to the hilt despite the MuzBro's ascendancy then all of a sudden scream like banshees about the incoming Caliphate in Syria post Assad, or when they pilloried the West for not intervening in Bahrain due Blood for Oil geopolitics and then foam at the mouth when NATO finally launched airstrikes against Queerdafi by saying their intervening because those satanc Black Gold again. And on the other hand you have the sanguine, Neo-Imperialist Right a la Charles Krauthammer, Newt Gingrich, Weekly Standard, etc. who only 8 years were the most ostensible champions of Arab Democracy all of a sudden backing Mubarak to the hilt until the very end, slamming Obamao about the illegal or incompetent or immoral Libyan War, and then screaming at him for not persecuting another Operation Syrian Freedom campaign.

And in terms of ye old Spengler forumites, you've got Dan, the ever vicious Islamophobe and Arab hater suddenly undergoing a road to Damascus treatment and coming out to battle ellens and Pastanutso on defending the Arab Revolution. You have Uche Africanus who just 2-3 years ago feared not to ridicule all the petty and backwards Arab tyrants all of sudden proclaiming the innocence of the poor mizunderstood Gadafy, stalwart defender of black Pan-Africana. Of course you have Spenglerman who pauses once in a while to ponder about whether it is really wise for the West to be so entangled in this region, and then like clockwork go right on about bombing Iran to ensure Western hegemony in the region . Last but not least you have Hans Bulvai, the once perennial opponent of all things Spengler in terms of Islam, Arabs, and the MidEast now proclaiming the Queerdafir regime to be more moral than its new "Islamist" replacement and that Arabs need more jackboots on their asses in order to behave. Well holy lavender, I knew things can go a little bit crazy now and then but even I in most prurient imaginations could never have envisioned Hans detonating all of his previous arguments and moral credibility tut tutting about Abu Ghraib, evil dicktators, IsraHeil, Blood for Oil and Western skullduggeries all over the years into worthless piles of slag in just one brief post. I truly had to triple see it just to believe it.

Anyways I really really love this stuff. Haven't been this entertained by such an ideological collapse across such a broad spectrum in so long a time. Its clear everyone's flapping around like headless chickens while being wagged around by some levitating dog's tail.

[Mr. Perfect]

Enjoyed that Amms. I think I have the right attitude, celebrate all of it, whether it be slaughter or Switzerland. I love the ME now. Everything that happens there now makes me smile.

[AzariLoveIran]

.


Ba3ZXRJDGY8



The new video shows the bloodstained shirtless body of the deceased leader surrounded by armed men in the back of a vehicle. The militants then lift Gaddafi’s limp body onto a stretcher.



.

[AzariLoveIran]

.


“Jibril’s in the middle,” says Ali al-Arabi, tending his cigarette shop in Tripoli’s bus station. “And that’s what I want: someone who’s neither Islamist nor liberal.”

.

“People saw the success of Islamists in Tunisia and Egypt and expected the same thing here,” he says. But while those countries’ dictators cracked down on Islamic groups, “Here Islam has always been present – moderate Islam.”

.

.

[monster_gardener]

Thank you Very Much for the Thread, Hans

Hat Tip to Nastarana who posted the link to the Agonist

On the Gut Shot Akin for Trouble in Misery thread

Happened to find this there.....

An Arab Spring Moment - destroying shrines, burning books

Burning books, destroying religious shrines, terrorizing the population: The ruling faction in Libya couldn't win their rebellion until NATO dragged them across the finish line. Thanks to that help, Libya is ow ruled by violent, intolerant Salafifts. Mission Accomplished! But what is the mission?

Libya Islamists destroy Sufi shrines, library

ZLITAN, Libya –– Ultra-conservative Islamists used bombs and a bulldozer to destroy the tomb of a 15th century Sufi scholar in the Libyan city of Zlitan, witnesses said on Saturday, the latest attack in the region on sites branded idolatrous by some sects. The attackers reduced the revered last resting place of Abdel Salam al-Asmar to rubble on Friday and also set fire to a historic library in a nearby mosque, ruining thousands of books, witnesses and a military official added.

Sufism is a mystical strain of Islam which includes hymns, chanting and dancing among its devotions. Followers have built shrines to revered holy men and make pilgrimages to them. Even Qadhafi, with his ambivalent attitude to religion, did not try to interfere in a practice deep-rooted in Libyan culture. Salafis believe Islam should keep to the simple, ascetic form practiced by the Prophet Mohamed and his disciples. Followers reject any later additions to the faith. Egypt Independent, August 25 Image Sufism


Michael Collins August 25, 2012 - 7:17pm

http://agonist.org/michael_collins/2012 ... ning_books


Sad if true
That GadDaffi Duck
Was less of a Schmuck....
Than the current crew

[Hans Bulvai]

Arabs need a strongman. Fair but for sure iron fisted. The Prophet comes to mind.
None of those recently overthrown, or soon to be, fit that bill. None coming to take their place will either.
100's of years of living under someone's boot will make sure of that. Meaningful change comes from within. They are not ready. And the world is not ready for it either it seems.

BTW, I do garden but had to hang my shears last summer due to the extreme drought we had 'round here. My yard looks like lavender. I kept my roses and flowers alive but the grass is gone. Hope this summer is not the same as last.

I know this is late, dreadfully late, but...but ........(guffawing)...

BWHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Holy moly mother of moly , the day when Hans Bulvai turned into a Arabaphobe, Democracy Skeptic/Hater Clone from a chip off the old block Spenglerman has finally arrived ! You know, one thing I can at least love about the Arab Revolutions, despite all the ceaseless anxieties, heartburns, and horrors they've caused is that they served as a long overdue stick of stoopid that have lobotomized both the far left and the far right equally and successfully, exposing their gaping and rotting irrationality, hypocrisy, and underling derangement for all to see. On one hand you have the anti-American/IsraHeil crowds such as Pepe Escobar and Global Research who backed Mubarak's overthrow to the hilt despite the MuzBro's ascendancy then all of a sudden scream like banshees about the incoming Caliphate in Syria post Assad, or when they pilloried the West for not intervening in Bahrain due Blood for Oil geopolitics and then foam at the mouth when NATO finally launched airstrikes against Queerdafi by saying their intervening because those satanc Black Gold again. And on the other hand you have the sanguine, Neo-Imperialist Right a la Charles Krauthammer, Newt Gingrich, Weekly Standard, etc. who only 8 years were the most ostensible champions of Arab Democracy all of a sudden backing Mubarak to the hilt until the very end, slamming Obamao about the illegal or incompetent or immoral Libyan War, and then screaming at him for not persecuting another Operation Syrian Freedom campaign.

And in terms of ye old Spengler forumites, you've got Dan, the ever vicious Islamophobe and Arab hater suddenly undergoing a road to Damascus treatment and coming out to battle ellens and Pastanutso on defending the Arab Revolution. You have Uche Africanus who just 2-3 years ago feared not to ridicule all the petty and backwards Arab tyrants all of sudden proclaiming the innocence of the poor mizunderstood Gadafy, stalwart defender of black Pan-Africana. Of course you have Spenglerman who pauses once in a while to ponder about whether it is really wise for the West to be so entangled in this region, and then like clockwork go right on about bombing Iran to ensure Western hegemony in the region . Last but not least you have Hans Bulvai, the once perennial opponent of all things Spengler in terms of Islam, Arabs, and the MidEast now proclaiming the Queerdafir regime to be more moral than its new "Islamist" replacement and that Arabs need more jackboots on their asses in order to behave. Well holy lavender, I knew things can go a little bit crazy now and then but even I in most prurient imaginations could never have envisioned Hans detonating all of his previous arguments and moral credibility tut tutting about Abu Ghraib, evil dicktators, IsraHeil, Blood for Oil and Western skullduggeries all over the years into worthless piles of slag in just one brief post. I truly had to triple see it just to believe it.

Anyways I really really love this stuff. Haven't been this entertained by such an ideological collapse across such a broad spectrum in so long a time. Its clear everyone's flapping around like headless chickens while being wagged around by some levitating dog's tail.

And I just saw this.

My stand about evil dicktators (nice one remembering) etc... has not changed.
You either don't understand or don't want to understand.
I only see more dictatorships coming down the pike. This has nothing to do with what the people want or what they sacrifice in order to attain what it is they want.
The Middle East is headed for more division than ever before. If a strong man is what's needed to hold it together then so be it. Fair but strong.

Wake me up when the new, better Middle East is upon us when all Iraqis have electricity and are not killing each other; or when Syria is united under one banner; or the Lebanese are not kidnapping each other; or the Palestinians are not divided into two camps that can't even agree on water being a thirst quencher; or when the Monarchs of the desert lands share the wealth of their black gold with all their people; or when Gaza is not under siege by Egypt; or when Jordan's sole existence is built on the misery of all those around it...

Don't go comparing me to scum when the miseries of all those mentioned above I have tasted and lived.

Arabphobe. Laughable.
Democracy. Like the Lochness monster. There are pictures out there, but its existance has not been proven.
Clone of spengle hollow? Not even worth addressing.

20,000 Syrians dead. Yeah, I am the one cheerleading for more dead.

[Hans Bulvai]

Thank you Very Much for the Thread, Hans

Hat Tip to Nastarana who posted the link to the Agonist

On the Gut Shot Akin for Trouble in Misery thread

Happened to find this there.....

An Arab Spring Moment - destroying shrines, burning books

Burning books, destroying religious shrines, terrorizing the population: The ruling faction in Libya couldn't win their rebellion until NATO dragged them across the finish line. Thanks to that help, Libya is ow ruled by violent, intolerant Salafifts. Mission Accomplished! But what is the mission?

Libya Islamists destroy Sufi shrines, library

ZLITAN, Libya –– Ultra-conservative Islamists used bombs and a bulldozer to destroy the tomb of a 15th century Sufi scholar in the Libyan city of Zlitan, witnesses said on Saturday, the latest attack in the region on sites branded idolatrous by some sects. The attackers reduced the revered last resting place of Abdel Salam al-Asmar to rubble on Friday and also set fire to a historic library in a nearby mosque, ruining thousands of books, witnesses and a military official added.

Sufism is a mystical strain of Islam which includes hymns, chanting and dancing among its devotions. Followers have built shrines to revered holy men and make pilgrimages to them. Even Qadhafi, with his ambivalent attitude to religion, did not try to interfere in a practice deep-rooted in Libyan culture. Salafis believe Islam should keep to the simple, ascetic form practiced by the Prophet Mohamed and his disciples. Followers reject any later additions to the faith. Egypt Independent, August 25 Image Sufism


Michael Collins August 25, 2012 - 7:17pm

http://agonist.org/michael_collins/2012 ... ning_books


Sad if true
That GadDaffi Duck
Was less of a Schmuck....
Than the current crew