Obama has eclipsed Nixon, Guliani (remember how Tinker and someone else used to rail agaisnt Gules, that was pattycake compared to Obama), Bush, now all that is left is internment via Democrat Franklin R and KGB. Papers please. It's not going to go quite how you expected it to Tinker, Zack et al. Pointy objects ahead.
But Obama will be even more popular among his base.
The Obama administration is secretly carrying out a domestic surveillance program under which it is collecting business communications records involving Americans under a hotly debated section of the Patriot Act, according to a highly classified court order disclosed on Wednesday night.
The order, signed by Judge Roger Vinson of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court in April, directs a Verizon Communications subsidiary, Verizon Business Network Services, to turn over “on an ongoing daily basis” to the National Security Agency all call logs “between the United States and abroad” or “wholly within the United States, including local telephone calls.”
With Glenn Greenwald's bombshell scoop in The Guardian that the NSA collects phone data from millions of Verizon customers, the New York Times continued in its wave of criticism with an editorial saying the Obama "administration has now lost all credibility."
The Times became one of the more influential voices to chide the Obama administration for attacking press freedom following reports last month that the Justice Department secretly monitored the Associated Press and Fox News.
Earlier this week, executive editor Jill Abramson appeared on CBS News' "Face the Nation" and said the Times feared "news gathering is being criminalized." She added, "The reporters who work for the Times in Washington have told me many of their sources are petrified even to return calls" in light of the Justice Department's agressive investigations into leaks.
Late Thursday afternoon, The Times published another scathing editorial about the sweeping court order that allowed the NSA to collect Verizon customers' phone data. The board wrote:
Mr. Obama is proving the truism that the executive will use any power it is given and very likely abuse it. That is one reason we have long argued that the Patriot Act, enacted in the heat of fear after the 9/11 attacks by members of Congress who mostly had not even read it, was reckless in its assignment of unnecessary and overbroad surveillance powers.
The board added that it was not objecting to the legality of the court order but argued against using the Patriot Act for this purpose.
This stunning use of the act shows, once again, why it needs to be sharply curtailed if not repealed.
I will continue to discuss this topic in the thread that was already made about it.
Men often oppose a thing merely because they have had no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike.
-Alexander Hamilton
With Glenn Greenwald's bombshell scoop in The Guardian that the NSA collects phone data from millions of Verizon customers, the New York Times continued in its wave of criticism with an editorial saying the Obama "administration has now lost all credibility."
The Times became one of the more influential voices to chide the Obama administration for attacking press freedom following reports last month that the Justice Department secretly monitored the Associated Press and Fox News.
Earlier this week, executive editor Jill Abramson appeared on CBS News' "Face the Nation" and said the Times feared "news gathering is being criminalized." She added, "The reporters who work for the Times in Washington have told me many of their sources are petrified even to return calls" in light of the Justice Department's agressive investigations into leaks.
Late Thursday afternoon, The Times published another scathing editorial about the sweeping court order that allowed the NSA to collect Verizon customers' phone data. The board wrote:
Mr. Obama is proving the truism that the executive will use any power it is given and very likely abuse it. That is one reason we have long argued that the Patriot Act, enacted in the heat of fear after the 9/11 attacks by members of Congress who mostly had not even read it, was reckless in its assignment of unnecessary and overbroad surveillance powers.
The board added that it was not objecting to the legality of the court order but argued against using the Patriot Act for this purpose.
This stunning use of the act shows, once again, why it needs to be sharply curtailed if not repealed.
Impeach???? For what...so those liberty-lovng Repubs can swoop in and do...the...same...thing? The proposal, funding approval and authorities for the hardware, personnel and work spaces would have to originate at least 5-years before some of these programs (PRISM, data centers, specific parsing programs) have been reported to have begun (2007). That's just flat-out how the government acquisition system works (and 5-years is optimistic!!). How about just repealing the Patriot Act, passing legislation to outlaw some of these other programs, and get a lavender-ton of independent prosecutors to investigate (sure as f-ck can't trust Holder to do diddly)? No, the Repubs would crush any rogue true Conservatives or Libertarians who try to shut it down.
At this point the only hope is outright collapse or a meteor.
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
cincinnatus wrote:Impeach???? For what...so those liberty-lovng Repubs can swoop in and do...the...same...thing?
The same thing they have been doing for some years.
Sen. Saxby Chambliss: Let me just emphasize, this is nothing particularly new. This has been going on for seven years under the auspices of the FISA authority and every member of the United States Senate has been advised of this.
To my knowledge, we have not had any citizen who has registered a complaint relative to the gathering of this information. It is simply what we call metadata that is never utilized by any governmental agency unless they go back to the FISA court and show that there’s real cause as to why something within the metadata should be looked at.
That’s been very clear all along through the years of this program. It is proved meritorious, because we have gathered significant information on bad guys, but only on bad guys, over the years.
If you're going to impeach Obama, at least sack all the senators as well.
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
cincinnatus wrote:
Impeach???? For what...so those liberty-lovng Repubs can swoop in and do...the...same...thing?
“Christ has no body now but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks with compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks among His people to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses His creation.”
cincinnatus wrote:
Impeach???? For what...so those liberty-lovng Repubs can swoop in and do...the...same...thing? The proposal, funding approval and authorities for the hardware, personnel and work spaces would have to originate at least 5-years before some of these programs (PRISM, data centers, specific parsing programs) have been reported to have begun (2007). That's just flat-out how the government acquisition system works (and 5-years is optimistic!!). How about just repealing the Patriot Act, passing legislation to outlaw some of these other programs, and get a lavender-ton of independent prosecutors to investigate (sure as f-ck can't trust Holder to do diddly)? No, the Repubs would crush any rogue true Conservatives or Libertarians who try to shut it down.
At this point the only hope is outright collapse or a meteor.
Because Mr. Perfect actually likes all of these things. He supports all of these things. He would love to see a Republican administration punish leftists with these tools.
Men often oppose a thing merely because they have had no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike.
-Alexander Hamilton
There is no conservative/right wing party anymore, and the only solution I can see is moving to a more decentralized system.
We could do this by multiplying the number of senate and HR seats by four. Every district would be quartered, maintaining the essentials of the republic and the constitution but the representives would be closer to the people and more difficult to corrupt.
Thoughts?
“Christ has no body now but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks with compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks among His people to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses His creation.”
Nonc Hilaire wrote:There is no conservative/right wing party anymore, and the only solution I can see is moving to a more decentralized system.
We could do this by multiplying the number of senate and HR seats by four. Every district would be quartered, maintaining the essentials of the republic and the constitution but the representives would be closer to the people and more difficult to corrupt.
Thoughts?
Agreed. But I don't want to encourage Mr. Perfect's forum shitting. If you want to discuss the topic, please start a thread, we can talk about such reforms.
Men often oppose a thing merely because they have had no agency in planning it, or because it may have been planned by those whom they dislike.
-Alexander Hamilton
Nonc Hilaire wrote:There is no conservative/right wing party anymore, and the only solution I can see is moving to a more decentralized system.
We could do this by multiplying the number of senate and HR seats by four. Every district would be quartered, maintaining the essentials of the republic and the constitution but the representives would be closer to the people and more difficult to corrupt.
Thoughts?
Agreed. But I don't want to encourage Mr. Perfect's forum shitting. If you want to discuss the topic, please start a thread, we can talk about such reforms.
When are you going to come to the realization that Mr. P's form of tyranny is much better for society than your form of tyranny
cincinnatus wrote:Impeach???? For what...so those liberty-lovng Repubs can swoop in and do...the...same...thing?
The same thing they have been doing for some years.
Sen. Saxby Chambliss: Let me just emphasize, this is nothing particularly new. This has been going on for seven years under the auspices of the FISA authority and every member of the United States Senate has been advised of this.
To my knowledge, we have not had any citizen who has registered a complaint relative to the gathering of this information. It is simply what we call metadata that is never utilized by any governmental agency unless they go back to the FISA court and show that there’s real cause as to why something within the metadata should be looked at.
That’s been very clear all along through the years of this program. It is proved meritorious, because we have gathered significant information on bad guys, but only on bad guys, over the years.
If you're going to impeach Obama, at least sack all the senators as well.
You're almost a teabagger now Ymix. What does it feel like?
cincinnatus wrote:
Impeach???? For what...so those liberty-lovng Repubs can swoop in and do...the...same...thing? The proposal, funding approval and authorities for the hardware, personnel and work spaces would have to originate at least 5-years before some of these programs (PRISM, data centers, specific parsing programs) have been reported to have begun (2007). That's just flat-out how the government acquisition system works (and 5-years is optimistic!!). How about just repealing the Patriot Act, passing legislation to outlaw some of these other programs, and get a lavender-ton of independent prosecutors to investigate (sure as f-ck can't trust Holder to do diddly)? No, the Repubs would crush any rogue true Conservatives or Libertarians who try to shut it down.
At this point the only hope is outright collapse or a meteor.
Typical spineless moderate thought processes. This kind of thinking is what enables these things to happen. At the end of the day moderates may be responsible for more evil than Mao types. Richard Nixon would have loved you.
Mr. Perfect wrote:You're almost a teabagger now Ymix.
I'm only saying what I've said many times before.
What does it feel like?
How does it feel to support a morally-bankrupt party?
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
Mr. Perfect wrote:Typical spineless moderate thought processes. This kind of thinking is what enables these things to happen. At the end of the day moderates may be responsible for more evil than Mao types. Richard Nixon would have loved you.
Don't be a Mao-enabling moderate. Vote for Mr. Perfect's one-party system. Guaranteed to bring democracy and freedom.
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
Mr. Perfect wrote:Typical spineless moderate thought processes. This kind of thinking is what enables these things to happen. At the end of the day moderates may be responsible for more evil than Mao types. Richard Nixon would have loved you.
Don't be a Mao-enabling moderate. Vote for Mr. Perfect's one-party system. Guaranteed to bring democracy and freedom.
I'm for as many parties as possible as long as they are not state slavery parties like the Democrats or other leftist western parties.
Let me get this straight moderates, we don't prosecute crimes because someone else may commit them again in the future? Help me square that circle.
Enki wrote:
Agreed. But I don't want to encourage Mr. Perfect's forum shitting. If you want to discuss the topic, please start a thread, we can talk about such reforms.
Err, these reforms coming from Obama are the reforms. They were why you and everyone else supported him so vigorously. This is the inevitable outcome of limitless government. You knew it, I knew it, everyone knew it. I guess you could call it nation s#!%%ing.
It's not going to end the way you think it is going to end.
Mr. Perfect wrote:You can certainly answer that question based on first hand experience.
Ah, but you are the holier-than-thou supporter of true freedom, the last bastion of hope, the lighthouse in a world of darkness. By the way, are you a Republican or a Tea Party guy?
Mr. Perfect wrote:I'm for as many parties as possible as long as they are not state slavery parties like the Democrats or other leftist western parties.
So, you are for as many parties as possible as long as they follow a single ideology. Chairman Mao approves.
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
YMix wrote:
Ah, but you are the holier-than-thou supporter of true freedom, the last bastion of hope, the lighthouse in a world of darkness. By the way, are you a Republican or a Tea Party guy?
Both. I don't fit into the binary choices so many of you prefer.
So, you are for as many parties as possible as long as they follow a single ideology. Chairman Mao approves.
Mr. Perfect wrote:Both. I don't fit into the binary choices so many of you prefer.
Ah, a case of conflicting personalities. How interesting.
False binary choice. So many fall for it.
You should know.
“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA The Kushner sh*t is greasy - Stevie B.
