Hillary attack Obama over Bergdahl deal (no deal)

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Doc
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Hillary attack Obama over Bergdahl deal (no deal)

Post by Doc »

So was it a deal or wasn't it? And Hillary claims she was always against it Not because it was wrong that a guy that got US troops killed looking for him, but because she didn't trust the Taliban if a deal was made. But we must remember when criticizing Hillary about her stands on military matters that she once came under fire in Bosinia.

http://cltampa.com/politicalanimal/arch ... l-transfer
Mitch Perry Report 6.4.14: Hillary separates from Obama on Bergdahl transfer
Posted by Mitch Perry on Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 8:52 AM

It's not a surprise that Republicans like Marco Rubio are jumping on President Obama and his national security advisors for making the deal that brought back American POW Bowe Bergdahl for five Taliban detainees who'd been stuck in Guantanamo Bay for years. Rubio penned a letter to Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel yesterday with 11 specific questions that he wants answers to — and he's not the only one.

Most damaging to the president have been the parents of former U.S. soldiers killed in Afghanistan who say their sons died because of their search for Bergdahl after he wandered off his base back in 2009. Their appearances have dominated network and cable news over the past few days, and seem to be making many Americans more uneasy about the transfer.

And then there is Hillary Clinton. Fresh off the leaked chapter of her new memoir coming out next week that attempts to address her role in the Benghazi controversy, Team Hillary is, as always, in a combative mood when it comes to knocking down potentially bad press. In a story published last night in the Daily Beast, sources close to Clinton say that she was always against such a proposal involving Berghdal going back to 2011 and 2012, when such plans were initially floated.

Three former administration officials who were involved in the process told The Daily Beast that Clinton was worried about the ability to enforce the deal and disinclined to trust the Taliban or the Haqqani network in Pakistan, which held Bergdahl until this weekend. Clinton was so concerned, the former officials added, that she may not have even signed off if the negotiations had succeeded.

The controversy about Bergdahl's reported "desertion" has dominated the news coverage. It's probably fair to say that, while the administration was prepared for criticism about the exchange, it expected complaints about exchanging for "the worst of the worst" Taliban prisoners, not the recovered POW. Those former Gitmo prisoners are being repatriated to Qatar, but reportedly are free to roam around the country with no supervision.

But Team Clinton leaks to the Daily Beast that such a deal wouldn't have happened under their candidate. No way.

The Qatari regime under the Clinton deal would have been required to do a whole host of things to ensure that the released prisoners were adhering to the terms of their pseudo-house arrest, including surveillance, systematic monitoring, and travel bans that would last until there was peace

Mrs. Clinton said yesterday that “this young man, whatever the circumstances, was an American citizen — is an American citizen — was serving in our military. The idea that you really care for your own citizens and particularly those in uniform, I think is a very noble one.” You can bet she'll be asked to talk about this story once she starts making the media rounds a week from now.
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Re: Hillary attack Obama over bergdahl deal(no deal)

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The only scenario that makes sense to me is that at least one of the Talibunnies flipped and is being inserted as a U.S. intelligence asset.

I put the probability of Obama taking any political risk for a U.S. serviceman far beyond six sigma. I think this is all we will hear from public responses and commentary:

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Re: Hillary attack Obama over bergdahl deal(no deal)

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

.

Seems, there is much more to this "Bowe Bergdahl" affair than meets eye .. seems he walked to Taliban voluntary, why did he ? ? if so,
why was US so obsessed getting him back .. Joe is lied regarding facts of this

Should leave Hillary out of this and concentrate to find the true facts .. something fishy

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Too Bad Bergdahl Didn't Desert from French Foreign Legion...

Post by monster_gardener »

Nonc Hilaire wrote:The only scenario that makes sense to me is that at least one of the Talibunnies flipped and is being inserted as a U.S. intelligence asset.

I put the probability of Obama taking any political risk for a U.S. serviceman far beyond six sigma. I think this is all we will hear from public responses and commentary:

Image
Thank You Very Much for your post, Nonc Hilaire.
The only scenario that makes sense to me is that at least one of the Talibunnies flipped and is being inserted as a U.S. intelligence asset.
Not at all....

The only Talibunny/Tallywacker being inserted is Bergdahl the Deserter/Traitor and Berghdahl is to be inserted into the U.S.... :roll:

If the case is as reported by his fellow soldiers who had to look/die for this would be French Foreign Legion/Ballerina Taliban Tallwacker :evil: :roll: , I hope Berghdahl ends up SuperMaxed in prison for the rest of his near worthless life so that any sleeper mission he may have been given is aborted....

Too bad he didn't get to join the French Foreign Legion & desert from them & get caught :twisted:
I put the probability of Obama taking any political risk for a U.S. serviceman far beyond six sigma.
I agree but that is part of the point..

IMO there is a high probability that obama the Arrogant, Delusional, Incompetent, LYING, Self Serving Son of a Bitch Eater did this to switch the subject from the VA scandal.... :roll:

Probably thought that he would get some street cred from the troops & vets & families for bringing one of them home....

And due to his general incompetence obama the Liar has managed to screw this up too.....

Didn't pay attention that Bergdahl likely is NOT one of US..... Seems to be a Deserter :evil: for sure and likely a Traitor :evil: :evil: :evil:

And that his one time comrades in arms do NOT like or admire him.....

Better soldiers than Bergdahl died trying to find this near worthless POS Deserter/Turncoat....
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Re: Hillary attack Obama over bergdahl deal(no deal)

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We told you guys obama was an anti-American moron from the beginning. Don't act all surprised now.

I guess some people get dazzled with words like truncated. Ooh, so smart. He just said truncated.
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It's Fishy When obama Creature from Chicago Lagoon Involved.

Post by monster_gardener »

Heracleum Persicum wrote:.

Seems, there is much more to this "Bowe Bergdahl" affair than meets eye .. seems he walked to Taliban voluntary, why did he ? ? if so,
why was US so obsessed getting him back .. Joe is lied regarding facts of this

Should leave Hillary out of this and concentrate to find the true facts .. something fishy

.
Thank You Very Much for your post, Azari.
seems he walked to Taliban voluntary, why did he ? ? if so
Reports are that Bergdahl was an unhappy camper/loser of a wannabe soldier who wanted to be first a ballerina, then a French Foreign Legionnaire and finally chose the US military as his third choice ;) :roll:

Not the first time something like this has happened....

During the Korean Wars some soldiers who didn't like being soldiers deserted to the North Korean Norks often to their extreme regret.... IIRC hoped to get turned over to the Russian Bears and eventually end up footless and free among the Euroz in Europe maybe in Gay Paree Paris.... Didn't work out that way.... Had to stay in the Starving Frozen Nork Hell teaching English to Nork Spies and making propaganda for decades.... One of the lucky ones ended up marrying a young Japanese woman who had been kidnapped by the Norks to teach Japanese to Nork spies and eventually when she was repatriated to Japan as a PR stunt by the Norks he got to go too.... By that time he was old and we US decided to show mercy on him for his Japanese wife & children's sake.... Last I heard he helps his wife run a hostel in Japan or something like that.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Robert_Jenkins

should leave Hillary out of this
As I understand it, it is Hillary/Billary is so intent on not having her political chances assassinated :twisted: oops I mean being associated with obama the Arrogant, Delusional, Incompetent, LYING, Son of a Bitch Eater's latest blunder that she/he ;) is throwing obama the Arrogant, Delusional, Incompetent, LYING, Son of a Bitch Eater under the bus.... :twisted: :lol:
concentrate to find the true facts
Agreed...

Want to know the real reason that obama the Arrogant, Delusional, Incompetent, LYING, Son of a Bitch Eater who really doesn't give a Tinker's ;) Dam for the military decided break the law again by releasing 5 Big Time Taliban Tallywacker Talibunny Terrorists without properly consulting Congress to get back a near worthless POS Deserter/Traitor who in a better timeline would have ended up as a Ballerina entertaining French Foreign Legion soldiers :twisted: :lol:
something fishy
Quite correct when obama the Arrogant, Delusional, Incompetent, LYING, Son of a Bitch Eating Creature from the Chicago Lagoon is involved....
Last edited by monster_gardener on Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Republican Elephants to Truncate ;-) obama's Evil Power....

Post by monster_gardener »

Mr. Perfect wrote:We told you guys obama was an anti-American moron from the beginning. Don't act all surprised now.

I guess some people get dazzled with words like truncated. Ooh, so smart. He just said truncated.
Thank You VERY MUCH for your post, Mr. Perfect....
truncated
I like that word when it is something that happens to obama the Arrogant, Delusional, Incompetent, LYING, Son of a Bitch Eater..... ;) :twisted: :lol:

As in......The Republican victory in 2014 enabled the GOP to truncate ;) obama the Arrogant, Delusional, Incompetent, LYING, Traitorous Son of a Bitch Eater's power & term in office by impeaching and convicting the Arrogant, Delusional, Incompetent, LYING, Traitorous Son of a Bitch Eater......

And what heroic animal better than Republican GOP Elephants to trunkate ;) oops I mean truncate the power of an Arrogant, Delusional, Incompetent, LYING, Son of a Bitch Eating Fishy ;) Creature from the Chicago Lagoon.... :twisted:
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Re: Hillary attack Obama over Bergdahl deal (no deal)

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Jon Stewart discovers media stupidity. Hon Stewart always struck as possibly the dumbest person in politics. Down there with bowel movement Maher.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... rophe.html

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Re: Hillary attack Obama over bergdahl deal(no deal)

Post by Doc »

Mr. Perfect wrote:We told you guys obama was an anti-American moron from the beginning. Don't act all surprised now.

I guess some people get dazzled with words like truncated. Ooh, so smart. He just said truncated.

Ooh is that a shorter way to spell "hope" and/or "change"? :P
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Re: Hillary attack Obama over Bergdahl deal (no deal)

Post by Doc »

Mr. Perfect wrote:Where did all the liberals go? How come liberals aren't out there defending their party and their ideas and their President?

Are they happy? Are they committing suicide? Give us a status report. It seems like on the surface that you are all now so completely morally and intellectually bankrupt that you can't even speak. Am I off base.

Tinker of course and berzer went silent some time ago, but when Zack Morris and ethinker get in the bunker, boy, what's left.
They know the fork has been stuck in the left wing goose and it is getting well done. Sooner or later they will come to terms with that. Probably when someone comes along and promises no hope no change.

Hilliary's goose is likely done as well.
Hillary Clinton Deserts Obama On Bergdahl-Taliban Trade Despite Personal Involvement
9:42 AM 06/04/2014

Eric Owens


Knowing an epic political disaster when she sees one, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is seeking to distance herself from the swap of five Taliban commanders for Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl, who has been described by fellow army soldiers and official Pentagon reports as a deserter who may have been seeking to join the Taliban.

The presumed Democratic presidential front-runner for 2016 was deeply involved in deliberations about the secret negotiations between the United States and the Taliban in 2011 and 2012 that eventually led to the five-for-one exchange, reports The Daily Beast.

Now that the deal is quickly becoming a public-relations nightmare for the Obama administration, unidentified pro-Clinton insiders have begun frantically spinning Clinton’s involvement in the trade as Clinton’s disagreement about the terms of the trade.

The story goes that a first round of negotiations about the swap went on for many months before temporarily falling apart. Bureaucrats from the White House, the State Department and the Defense Department negotiated directly with Taliban leaders on several occasions during 2011 and 2012 in Doha and Munich. During that time, Clinton’s surrogates swear, she had managed to outline an agreement that would have been far stricter on the Taliban than Obama’s deal in 2014.

“She was heavily involved from the beginning. She was very skeptical of the arrangement. She was very wary of it,” one unnamed ex-Obama administration official told The Daily Beast. “If we had come to some agreement she perhaps would have backed it, but we never got to that point.”

Clinton’s strict, secret deal, her surrogates said, would have prevented released commanders from going back to war against the United States. Her ambition, her unnamed supporters said, also included a broader peace deal instead of the stand-alone deal the Obama administration later negotiated.

While there appears to be no public record on the hard-hitting deal the presidential hopeful wanted to strike, the Clinton supporters who supplied the information about it say it demonstrated that she is a realist who didn’t trust the Taliban or the Haqqani network, which held Bergdahl.

Rep. Jim Moran, a Virginia Democrat, also went on the record with The Daily Beast on behalf of Clinton.

“She was felt that the Haqqani network were really bad guys,” Moran said. “She was reluctant to enter into negotiations with them.”

Moran also suggested that the claims of Clinton’s surrogates that she remained strong while Obama later did not are at best a simplification.

“The talks evolved,” he told the Beast. “The fact that we are going to be pulling out of Afghanistan shortly meant that the likelihood of retrieving Bergdahl was diminishing. And once the war in Afghanistan is over, some will argue that we no longer have a legal right to detain the Taliban.”

Moran did not explain why he thought Clinton agreed to enter into negotiations with the Taliban for a two-year period or so in spite of her reluctance to do so.
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2014/06/04/hilla ... nvolvement

Or like the monologue from a Hungarian movie I once saw:
When you are young you hope
Then you grow older and you lose hope
Then you grow older still and you die.


The common thread throughout being there is constant change
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Re: Hillary attack Obama over Bergdahl deal (no deal)

Post by Alexis »

- As I understand it, the rationale for retrieving Bergdahl irrespective of whether he was a decent soldier or a deserter has little to do with his person, and much with defense of a principle and tradition.

Look up one of the links Armchair Pundit provided:
Rear Adm. John F. Kirby, the Pentagon spokesman, said that there was a larger matter at play: The American military does not leave soldiers behind. “When you’re in the Navy, and you go overboard, it doesn’t matter if you were pushed, fell or jumped,” he said. “We’re going to turn the ship around and pick you up.
Traditions and principles are very hard to establish, and all too easy to let fall. Defense of a long-established tradition of the US military has a high value.


- The problem of exchanging a private (he was promoted sergeant only when in captivity) against five high-level leaders is real.

At the same time, the fact is that the Taliban captured a grand total of 1 (one) US serviceman, while the US captured scores of Taliban fishes, large and small. Therefore it's not surprising that exchange of POWs after peace talks have been concluded would be strikingly unbalanced.

Also remember exchanges of prisoners between Israel and Palestine during the periods when cohabitation between them is more or less peaceful: often the rate is hundreds of Palestinian fighters for one single Israeli soldier! This does not reflect the Israeli government agreeing to a bad deal, but the respective numbers of POWs in control of the two opponents.


- The big - BIG - problem with this POW exchange is that... peace talks have not been concluded between the USA and the Talibans!

Are they being held now? That's quite possible.
Have they come to fruition? Definitly not!

Last news are that the US intend to maintain military bases in Afghanistan until Kingdom co... sorry, I meant until end 2016 to begin with, while Talibans have certainly not laid down arms. Not even a ceasefire has been implemented.

If a ceasefire had been agreed to and peace talks were going anywhere, such a POW exchange would make sense. In its absence... this exchange is bonkers :shock: :loco:


- This is not to say that exchange of POWs in wartime cannot happen. But with precise conditions.

Let me recall the deeds of the Father of the Peoples, Comrade Joseph Stalin, whose son Yakov was serving in the Soviet Army as a lieutenant and was taken prisoner by the Germans. Recognizing the son of their greatest enemy, the Third Reich leadership proposed to exchange him against Marschall Paulus, who had been taken prisoner at Stalingrad.

Stalin refused, saying that a lieutenant can be exchanged only for a lieutenant. His son died in captivity, like most Soviet soldiers and other supposed Untermenschen under Nazi custody.

Stalin was a mass criminal and a tyrant. This is however a very rare - unique? - case of him coming out as a most respectable leader.
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Re: Hillary attack Obama over Bergdahl deal (no deal)

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

Karzai is justifiably pissed about not being consulted.

http://en.alalam.ir/news/1599451
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No obligation to bring back a Deserter.........

Post by monster_gardener »

Alexis wrote:- As I understand it, the rationale for retrieving Bergdahl irrespective of whether he was a decent soldier or a deserter has little to do with his person, and much with defense of a principle and tradition.

Look up one of the links Armchair Pundit provided:
Rear Adm. John F. Kirby, the Pentagon spokesman, said that there was a larger matter at play: The American military does not leave soldiers behind. “When you’re in the Navy, and you go overboard, it doesn’t matter if you were pushed, fell or jumped,” he said. “We’re going to turn the ship around and pick you up.
Traditions and principles are very hard to establish, and all too easy to let fall. Defense of a long-established tradition of the US military has a high value.


- The problem of exchanging a private (he was promoted sergeant only when in captivity) against five high-level leaders is real.

At the same time, the fact is that the Taliban captured a grand total of 1 (one) US serviceman, while the US captured scores of Taliban fishes, large and small. Therefore it's not surprising that exchange of POWs after peace talks have been concluded would be strikingly unbalanced.

Also remember exchanges of prisoners between Israel and Palestine during the periods when cohabitation between them is more or less peaceful: often the rate is hundreds of Palestinian fighters for one single Israeli soldier! This does not reflect the Israeli government agreeing to a bad deal, but the respective numbers of POWs in control of the two opponents.


- The big - BIG - problem with this POW exchange is that... peace talks have not been concluded between the USA and the Talibans!

Are they being held now? That's quite possible.
Have they come to fruition? Definitly not!

Last news are that the US intend to maintain military bases in Afghanistan until Kingdom co... sorry, I meant until end 2016 to begin with, while Talibans have certainly not laid down arms. Not even a ceasefire has been implemented.

If a ceasefire had been agreed to and peace talks were going anywhere, such a POW exchange would make sense. In its absence... this exchange is bonkers :shock: :loco:


- This is not to say that exchange of POWs in wartime cannot happen. But with precise conditions.

Let me recall the deeds of the Father of the Peoples, Comrade Joseph Stalin, whose son Yakov was serving in the Soviet Army as a lieutenant and was taken prisoner by the Germans. Recognizing the son of their greatest enemy, the Third Reich leadership proposed to exchange him against Marschall Paulus, who had been taken prisoner at Stalingrad.

Stalin refused, saying that a lieutenant can be exchanged only for a lieutenant. His son died in captivity, like most Soviet soldiers and other supposed Untermenschen under Nazi custody.

Stalin was a mass criminal and a tyrant. This is however a very rare - unique? - case of him coming out as a most respectable leader.
Thank You VERY Much for your post, Alexis.
When you’re in the Navy, and you go overboard, it doesn’t matter if you were pushed, fell or jumped,” he said. “We’re going to turn the ship around and pick you up.
Admiral Kirby is speaking nonsense probably at the behest of the Arrogant, Deceptive Incompetent, LYING Son of a Bitch Eater excuse for a Commander in Chief that the US has.... :roll:

If you go overboard and the ship is doing evasive maneuvers/ zig-zaging to dodge torpedoes from submarines, don't count on being picked up any time soon..... Like before you die if the water is cold or a Shark gets you if it is warm..... If it means survival for the ship and the other sailors on it......

Similarly, the Army knew where this Wannabe French Foreign Legionnaire/Ballerina was and decided that it wasn't worthwhile losing the lives of more loyal soldiers to bring back a deserter/traitor for a Court-Martial....

No disrespect intended to the French Foreign Legion.......

AIUI their recruiters had the good sense to tell this POS Loser: "Hell, NO!" when he wanted to join.....

Too bad the American recruiters were not as wise/lucky........
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Re: Hillary attack Obama over Bergdahl deal (no deal)

Post by Demon of Undoing »

Mr. Perfect wrote:Where did all the liberals go? How come liberals aren't out there defending their party and their ideas and their President?

Are they happy? Are they committing suicide? Give us a status report. It seems like on the surface that you are all now so completely morally and intellectually bankrupt that you can't even speak. Am I off base.

Tinker of course and berzer went silent some time ago, but when Zack Morris and ethinker get in the bunker, boy, what's left.

I left some time ago because I got bored with showing you and everybody what a joke you've become. Yes, Virginia, you are off-base.

I'm against any negotiation with terrorists. Period. Now that we have him, he should be tried for desertion and possibly six counts of manslaughter or higher. I'd have been fine with a summary execution before he got on the chopper. If there is a violation of the law in the swap, I hope the people associated are sentenced to lobotomies that will place their IQs roughly on a level with that of MrP. But then again, I'm not a liberal, and you can't read words that don't already agree with your preconceived notions, so why am I even typing?

That's why I left. You're just not quick enough to be entertaining any more. You've got one note, so all you can do is play the damn thing all the way through any song that comes up. Tell Mitt I said to change his underwear next time you are giving him a knob shine.
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Re: Hillary attack Obama over Bergdahl deal (no deal)

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

Found a new conspiracy theory angle:
Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl, who was a five-year captive of the Taliban-aligned Haqqani network in Afghanistan, may have been an intelligence operative whose cover was blown after the White House outed the CIA’s top intelligence official in the Islamic country by mistake . . .

. . . Recent statements by Bergdahl’s father – as well as his mannerisms – also suggest that Bergdahl was trained by an intelligence agency to penetrate the Haqqani network under deep cover.
For one thing, it’s puzzling that Robert Bergdahl, Bergdahl’s father and an Idaho resident, can speak Pashto, one of the official languages of Afghanistan, considering that the State Dept.’s Foreign Service Institute considers Pashto one of the most difficult languages for an English-speaker to learn, especially without immersion in a native environment.
Both the FSI and the Pentagon’s Defense Language Institute are likely the two best sources for Pashto course material for native English speakers.
http://www.infowars.com/sgt-bergdahl-an ... a-blunder/
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Re: Hillary attack Obama over Bergdahl deal (no deal)

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Mildly interesting, but a buck Private as a deep cover asset? Not so sure.
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Re: Hillary attack Obama over Bergdahl deal (no deal)

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Demon of Undoing wrote: I left some time ago because I got bored with showing you and everybody what a joke you've become. Yes, Virginia, you are off-base.

I'm against any negotiation with terrorists. Period. Now that we have him, he should be tried for desertion and possibly six counts of manslaughter or higher. I'd have been fine with a summary execution before he got on the chopper. If there is a violation of the law in the swap, I hope the people associated are sentenced to lobotomies that will place their IQs roughly on a level with that of MrP. But then again, I'm not a liberal, and you can't read words that don't already agree with your preconceived notions, so why am I even typing?

That's why I left.
Wouldn't just putting me on ignore sort of be an easier solution. So Occam's razor, Mr P is too ____ or liberalism and Democrats are now indefensible. Occam's razor. All the liberals leaving is because I'm too _____ or "stupid" I guess in this case (although wouldn't it be best to have stupid opponents? Wouldn't that be easy and fun? Wouldn't you look forward with glee to shredding stupid ideological opponents? I know I do) even after they put me on ignore (Ibs, Tinker), no, the power or my words overcomes the ignore feature. Imagine your words being so powerful it overcomes the ignore feature.
You're just not quick enough to be entertaining any more. You've got one note, so all you can do is play the damn thing all the way through any song that comes up. Tell Mitt I said to change his underwear next time you are giving him a knob shine.
Or you could tell him, he gets all that done the same place Harry Reid does, so when you see him you can do Mitt for me.
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Re: Hillary attack Obama over Bergdahl deal (no deal)

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

.


Clinton admits she was wrong over Iraq war

Hillary Clinton admits that she “got it wrong” in voting to support George W Bush’s 2003 invasion of Iraq . .

“I thought I had acted in good faith and made the best decision I could with the information I had. And I wasn’t alone in getting it wrong. But I still got it wrong. Plain and simple,” . .
Notion she was fed "lies" to influence her vote, is, baloney

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Re: Hillary attack Obama over Bergdahl deal (no deal)

Post by manolo »

Mr. Perfect wrote:Where did all the liberals go? How come liberals aren't out there defending their party and their ideas and their President?

Are they happy? Are they committing suicide? Give us a status report. It seems like on the surface that you are all now so completely morally and intellectually bankrupt that you can't even speak. Am I off base.

Tinker of course and berzer went silent some time ago, but when Zack Morris and ethinker get in the bunker, boy, what's left.
Mr P,

Hey there, what's with this bunker stuff? ;)

First off, I'm no liberal. I'm the full strength product, real home grown socialist, right here on good old mother earth. :D

Anyway, some folks are worrying about this deal. They think that the Taliban are letting their side down by dealing with America while the crusaders are still in their caliphate. :(

Alex.
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Re: Hillary attack Obama over Bergdahl deal (no deal)

Post by Mr. Perfect »

My apologies big daddy E,. usually I say liberal/progressive/leftist so as not to offend anyone, will add socialist from now on.
Censorship isn't necessary
manolo
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Re: Hillary attack Obama over Bergdahl deal (no deal)

Post by manolo »

Mr. Perfect wrote:My apologies big daddy E,. usually I say liberal/progressive/leftist so as not to offend anyone, will add socialist from now on.
MrP,

I've always liked you, from a long way back. No irony.

Alex.
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Re: Hillary attack Obama over Bergdahl deal (no deal)

Post by manolo »

Demon of Undoing wrote: I'm against any negotiation with terrorists.
Demon,

You are not alone. Joe Stalin took the same view.

Alex.
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Stalin, A Terrorist Who Refused to Negotiate With Terrorists

Post by monster_gardener »

manolo wrote:
Demon of Undoing wrote: I'm against any negotiation with terrorists.
Demon,

You are not alone. Joe Stalin took the same view.

Alex.
Thank You very much for your post, Alex Manolo Ethinker.
Joe Stalin took the same view.
But Joe Stalin was a terrorist himself..... :idea:

So Stalin was a terrorist who refused to negotiate with terrorists.. ;)

But I suspect that there is more to the story.... ;) :twisted:

Stalin the Sociopath may have found General Paulus more useful than a son..... ;) :twisted: :lol: :roll:

Especially a son he disliked such as Yakov....

It's not like Yakov was an ONLY son....

Stalin also had at least one other son & a daughter......
Yakov and his father Stalin never got along. Allegedly once Stalin referred to Yakov as a "mere cobbler". Later, according to Yakov's stepmother Nadezhda Alliluyeva, she saw a young girl running away from their Moscow dacha in tears. When she entered, she saw a despairing Yakov looking near faint in the room. He ran immediately to his bedroom. It turned out that the girl was Yakov's Jewish fiancée; when they told Stalin of their engagement, he became enraged.[citation needed]

While Stalin and his wife were arguing about this, a shot was heard from Yakov's room. Yakov had shot himself but survived. While she tended to his wounds and sent for a doctor, all his father said was, "He can't even shoot straight".[3]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakov_Dzhugashvili

Once again, Hitler ordered Paulus to hold Stalingrad to the death. On 30 January, Paulus informed Hitler that his men were only hours from collapse. Hitler responded by showering a raft of field promotions by radio on Paulus' officers to build up their spirits and steel their will to hold their ground. Most significantly, he promoted Paulus to field marshal. In deciding to promote Paulus, Hitler noted that there was no known record of a Prussian or German field marshal ever having surrendered. The implication was clear: Paulus was to commit suicide. If Paulus surrendered, Hitler implied he would shame Germany's military history.
Surrender

Despite this, and to the disgust of Hitler, Paulus and his staff surrendered the next day, 31 January. On the 2 February 1943 the remainder of the Sixth Army capitulated. Upon finding out about Paulus' surrender, Hitler flew into a rage, and vowed never to appoint another field marshal again. He would, in fact, go on to appoint another seven field marshals during the last two years of the war. Speaking about the surrender of Paulus, Hitler told his staff:

“ In peacetime Germany, about 18,000 or 20,000 people a year chose to commit suicide, even without being in such a position. Here is a man who sees 50,000 or 60,000 of his soldiers die defending themselves bravely to the end. How can he surrender himself to the Bolshevists?![1]

Paulus surrendered to Soviet forces in Stalingrad on 31 January 1943, the day after he was promoted to the rank of Generalfeldmarschall by Adolf Hitler. Hitler expected Paulus to commit suicide, citing the fact that there was no record of a German field marshal ever being captured alive. While in Soviet captivity during the war, Paulus became a vocal critic of the Nazi regime and joined the Soviet-sponsored National Committee for a Free Germany. He moved to the German Democratic Republic (East Germany) in 1953.
Paulus, a Roman Catholic, was opposed to suicide. During his captivity, according to General Max Pfeffer, Paulus said of Hitler's expectation: "I have no intention of shooting myself for this Bohemian corporal." Another general told the NKVD (the public and secret police organisation of the Soviet Union) that Paulus had told him about his promotion to field marshal and said: "It looks like an invitation to commit suicide, but I will not do this favour for him." Paulus also forbade his soldiers from standing on top of their trenches in order to be shot by the enemy.[2]

Although he at first refused to collaborate with the Soviets, after the attempted assassination of Hitler on 20 July 1944, Paulus became a vocal critic of the Nazi regime while in Soviet captivity, joining the Soviet-sponsored National Committee for a Free Germany and appealing to Germans to surrender. He later acted as a witness for the prosecution at the Nuremberg Trials. He was allowed to move to the German Democratic Republic in 1953, two years before the repatriation of the remaining German POWs who were held under the pretext that West Germany was not recognised by the Soviet Union, and were used for forced labour.

During the Nuremberg Trials, Paulus was asked about the Stalingrad prisoners by a journalist. Paulus told the journalist to tell the wives and mothers that their husbands and sons were well.[3] Of the 91,000 German prisoners taken at Stalingrad, half had died on the march to Siberian prison camps, and nearly as many died in captivity; only about 6,000 returned home.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Paulus

Well at least Stalin's non negotiation worked out well for Paulus..... :|

Suspect strongly that Paulus might have been shot if he was lucky or ended up hanging from piano wire if Hitler had gotten his hands on him again....
For the love of G_d, consider you & I may be mistaken.
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Re: Stalin, A Terrorist Who Refused to Negotiate With Terror

Post by manolo »

monster_gardener wrote: Suspect strongly that Paulus might have been shot if he was lucky or ended up hanging from piano wire if Hitler had gotten his hands on him again....
monster,

Yes, he would have killed him more than once. :evil:

Alex.
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: Hillary attack Obama over Bergdahl deal (no deal)

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

.
Demon of Undoing wrote:I'm against any negotiation with terrorists

a bit naive

If some criminal took your wife and children hostage @ knife point, threatening to kill them if demand not met, you still against negotiating to meet his demand ? ? ?

Negotiate no matter what the circumstances

AND

Expression of "TERRORIST" is PERVERTED

- Crooks coming from Latvia and Estonia and Ukraine, bulldozing people's homes, chasing indigini out their homes, calling them TERRORIST

- Bully powers coming from 10,000 miles away and destroying 1000s yrs old culture and civilization, calling any resistant TERRORIST

- Racist DUTCH Christian extremist faction coming to Africa and calling AFRICANS resisting them TERRORIST

and and and

Will take time, but will and must happen, WORD COURT will rule who the real terrorists of last few 100 yrs

AND .. reparation, Wiedergutmachung must follow

The point is, now, thanks to (FREE) information on the finger tip (internet), Billions of World population is well informed and make their own judgement, fooling (informed) population became much more difficult .. crooks will be losers

Notion Brits or NSA or Ayatollahs or CIA or anybody else listening and reading phone and emails and and will lead to anything, silly .. it will only delay what's coming .. listening and reading your mail and phones only good to find public sentiment and correct course accordingly.

.
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