On the Nature of Things | Forum

Demon of Undoing wrote:Just give it a good coat of paint.

crashtech wrote:Back of envelope arithmetic indicates the amount of average solar power available to 13% efficiency solar cells on a 3 meter square horizontal surface area (more than the average small car) over an 8 hour period is approximately equal to 12 ounces of gasoline. So it would have to be a pretty short commute not to need a bit of supplemental energy.

crashtech wrote:I agree 100%, and would never try to discourage anyone, but a good grasp of the challenge involved is helpful, I think. Many people don't realize just how energy dense a fuel gasoline, and even more so diesel are, and just how diffuse the energy in sunlight is in comparison.

By 2005, several teams were handicapped by the South Australian speed limit of 110 km/h (68 mph), as well as the difficulties of support crews keeping up with 130 km/h (81 mph) race vehicles. It was generally agreed that the challenge of building a solar vehicle capable of crossing Australia at vehicular speeds had been met and exceeded.

Nonc Hilaire wrote:We have a huge town here in Florida called The Villages. Designed for seniors, everything is accessible by golf cart. Special roads where autos are not allowed, tunnels under highways, recharging stations, etc.

noddy wrote:

crashtech wrote:Back of envelope arithmetic indicates the amount of average solar power available to 13% efficiency solar cells on a 3 meter square horizontal surface area (more than the average small car) over an 8 hour period is approximately equal to 12 ounces of gasoline. So it would have to be a pretty short commute not to need a bit of supplemental energy.

most inner city living is short commutes and in places like most of australia you do get a garunteed full day of sunshine.

my desire is purely to let those that want to muck around with little solar/pedal/battery/ethanol powered glorafied go karts do so, i personally know too many good welders/machinists and electronics types who can and would do a lot of interesting things if we didnt live in fear driven worst case scenario government controlled lives.

some communities might use bio fuels, others fuel cells, it all depends on whats available in your area.

the current car industry didnt have to comply with government rules on horse and carriages and didnt spring up from government funding of horse and carriage industries... it came from an era that anyone that wanted to muck around with crazy ideas, did so and didnt have to spend many dollars on licenses and approvals and compliance, nor spend that time in queues.

creative types dont like spending times in queues and paying licenses for experiements that may not work, they like running with ideas as they have them...

noddy wrote:

crashtech wrote:Back of envelope arithmetic indicates the amount of average solar power available to 13% efficiency solar cells on a 3 meter square horizontal surface area (more than the average small car) over an 8 hour period is approximately equal to 12 ounces of gasoline. So it would have to be a pretty short commute not to need a bit of supplemental energy.

most inner city living is short commutes and in places like most of australia you do get a garunteed full day of sunshine.

my desire is purely to let those that want to muck around with little solar/pedal/battery/ethanol powered glorafied go karts do so, i personally know too many good welders/machinists and electronics types who can and would do a lot of interesting things if we didnt live in fear driven worst case scenario government controlled lives.

some communities might use bio fuels, others fuel cells, it all depends on whats available in your area.

the current car industry didnt have to comply with government rules on horse and carriages and didnt spring up from government funding of horse and carriage industries... it came from an era that anyone that wanted to muck around with crazy ideas, did so and didnt have to spend many dollars on licenses and approvals and compliance, nor spend that time in queues.

creative types dont like spending times in queues and paying licenses for experiements that may not work, they like running with ideas as they have them...

noddy wrote:

crashtech wrote:Back of envelope arithmetic indicates the amount of average solar power available to 13% efficiency solar cells on a 3 meter square horizontal surface area (more than the average small car) over an 8 hour period is approximately equal to 12 ounces of gasoline. So it would have to be a pretty short commute not to need a bit of supplemental energy.

most inner city living is short commutes and in places like most of australia you do get a garunteed full day of sunshine.

the current car industry didnt have to comply with government rules on horse and carriages and didnt spring up from government funding of horse and carriage industries... it came from an era that anyone that wanted to muck around with crazy ideas, did so and didnt have to spend many dollars on licenses and approvals and compliance, nor spend that time in queues.

crashtech wrote:One of those solar vehicles and a stillsuit would be a damn fine way to travel the Outback.

noddy wrote:http://arstechnica.com/science/news/201 ... freely.ars

your stillsuit is ready

The power generated relative to the energy source size is three to four times greater than what is currently possible with the best lithium-ion batteries.

While on sabbatical from RMIT in 2009 and 2010, Associate Professor Dr Kourosh Kalantar-zadeh, from the School of Electrical and Computer Engineering, joined MIT Associate Professor Michael Strano's nanotechnology research group.

The team was working on measuring the acceleration of a chemical reaction along a nanotube when they discovered that the reaction generated power.

Now the two researchers are using their combined expertise in chemistry and nanomaterials to explore this phenomenon.

Their work titled Nanodynamite: Fuel-coated nanotubes could provide bursts of power to the smallest systems is in the December IEEE Spectrum Magazine, the publication of the IEEE.

Associate Professor Kalantar-zadeh said that his experimental system, based on one of the materials that have come from nanotechnology — carbon nanotubes — generates power, something researchers had not seen before.

“By coating a nanotube in nitrocellulose fuel and igniting one end, we set off a combustion wave along it and learned that a nanotube is an excellent conductor of heat from burning fuel. Even better, the combustion wave creates a strong electric current,” he said.

“Our discovery that a thermopower wave works best across these tubes because of their dual conductivity turns conventional thermoelectricity on its head.

“It's the first viable nanoscale approach to power generation that exploits the thermoelectric effect by overcoming the feasibility issues associated with minimising dimensions.

“But there are multiple angles to explore when it comes to taming these exotic waves and, ultimately, finding out if they're the wave of the future.”

crashtech wrote:There are lots of real reasons why cars weigh what they do, most having to do with safety, and the fact that steel is far less expensive to build with than aluminum or composites. Also, the conversion to electric power tends to increase vehicle weight due to the very large mass of the battery.

Much lighter vehicles could easily be manufactured, but something would have to be sacrificed. At present, that would mean either a very expensive vehicle, or a very unsafe one. In the latter case, decades of Federal safety regulations would need to be rolled back.

The assertion that merely switching the power source from hydrocarbons to electricity should inherently result in a lighter vehicle betrays a poor understanding of the energy densities of currently available energy storage systems.

Typhoon wrote: