"Honour Killings" | The Shafia Case

[Typhoon]

Restarting a thread locked and sent to Hell.

. . .

Here is the story:

http://ca.reuters.com/article/domesticN ... Q520120130

Three Canadians jailed for life for "honor killings"
(Reuters) - Three members of an Afghan Canadian family were found guilty of the "honor killing" of three siblings and a fourth relative on Sunday after a high-profile trial that has fascinated Canadians.

A jury in Kingston, Ontario, found the three -- husband and wife Mohammad Shafia and Tooba Mohammad Yahya, and their eldest son Hamed Mohammad Shafia -- guilty of four counts of first-degree murder.

Their victims were three of Hamed's sisters and the woman introduced to outsiders as a cousin, who turned out to be Mohammad Shafia's first wife in a polygamous marriage.

"It is difficult to conceive of a more despicable, more heinous crime," Canadian media quoted Judge Robert Maranger as saying after the verdict.

"The apparent reason behind these cold-blooded, shameful murders was that the four completely innocent victims offended your completely twisted concept of honor."

Over a three-month trial, the court heard repeated evidence that the three teenaged sisters had clashed with their conservative father on many issues.

Following this piece, several editorials reexamining the "immigration debate" emerged. Many radically biased by their pro or anti immigration agenda, here is a middle-of-the-road roundup:

http://ca.reuters.com/article/domesticN ... ZS20120130

Canadian values in spotlight after "honor killings"
TORONTO (Reuters) - The "honor killing" of three teenaged Canadian girls by members of their own family has prompted soul-searching in pro-immigration Canada, as it protects minority religious freedoms and upholds its liberal laws.

Muslim groups said their religion could not be blamed for the quadruple murder - an elder relative was also killed in the gruesome outburst of family violence.

Later in the article, this important point is made:

The United Nations estimates that 5,000 women and girls are murdered each year in so-called honor killings,

So that's 5000 "honor killings" worldwide, for all groups but mostly this will be split between Muslims, Sikhs, and Hindus. So:

Adeena Niazi, the executive director of the Afghan Women's Organization in Toronto said the killings were domestic violence, and not motivated by religion, culture or an unwillingness to adapt to Canadian values.

"What would happen if the family was not Afghan? What happens if a person from mainstream kills his girlfriend or wife? Is it a cultural issue? Of course not," she said, describing the Afghan community in Canada as outraged by the quadruple killings.

I'm not sure how the term "honor killing" was arrived at or when its applied, but certainly parents murder their children at a much higher rate worldwide than 5000 per year.

All in all, I think the story of this case has two main morals.

1. The family services and police in Montreal dropped the ball when the daughters reached out to them prior to the murders.

2. After the fact the system worked perfectly, with the criminals identified, convicted, and sentenced to the harshest penalty available, with everybody from the Federal Justice Minister to Muslim groups condemning the crime as evil and the perpetrators as scum.

To turn it into an immigration debate seems illogical, and frankly reeks of opportunistic exploitation of a real crime by certain anti-immigrant factions.

[Typhoon]

I think that it is the height of naivety to think that one can emigrate to a new country with radically different values than one's home country and believe that one's offspring will not and should not be influenced by their new adopted culture.



[Afghan girl - Canada]

In the Shafia case, the consequences were tragic.

[AzariLoveIran]

.

Don't know what was wrong with the old thread 2B moved to Hell

Fact of life is "Muslim hating" now mainstream in west, no hurt feelin Colonel

things become "hate crime" when Rhubarb involved

but , was saying :

look, Monster

Anectodes exist for everything, Elvis in McDonalds having a big mac

but

fact of the matter is, rules in Mecca & Jeddah, or in Yemeni Sanaa, christal clear

so

have not heared any "honor killing" in those places .. beheading of unfaithfull, yes, but no "honor killing"

Problem arises when those people move to Paris or Berlin and London where dating, western style, a norm


.

[monster_gardener]

Restarting a thread locked and sent to Hell.

. . .

Here is the story:

http://ca.reuters.com/article/domesticN ... Q520120130

Three Canadians jailed for life for "honor killings"
(Reuters) - Three members of an Afghan Canadian family were found guilty of the "honor killing" of three siblings and a fourth relative on Sunday after a high-profile trial that has fascinated Canadians.

A jury in Kingston, Ontario, found the three -- husband and wife Mohammad Shafia and Tooba Mohammad Yahya, and their eldest son Hamed Mohammad Shafia -- guilty of four counts of first-degree murder.

Their victims were three of Hamed's sisters and the woman introduced to outsiders as a cousin, who turned out to be Mohammad Shafia's first wife in a polygamous marriage.

"It is difficult to conceive of a more despicable, more heinous crime," Canadian media quoted Judge Robert Maranger as saying after the verdict.

"The apparent reason behind these cold-blooded, shameful murders was that the four completely innocent victims offended your completely twisted concept of honor."

Over a three-month trial, the court heard repeated evidence that the three teenaged sisters had clashed with their conservative father on many issues.

Following this piece, several editorials reexamining the "immigration debate" emerged. Many radically biased by their pro or anti immigration agenda, here is a middle-of-the-road roundup:

http://ca.reuters.com/article/domesticN ... ZS20120130

Canadian values in spotlight after "honor killings"
TORONTO (Reuters) - The "honor killing" of three teenaged Canadian girls by members of their own family has prompted soul-searching in pro-immigration Canada, as it protects minority religious freedoms and upholds its liberal laws.

Muslim groups said their religion could not be blamed for the quadruple murder - an elder relative was also killed in the gruesome outburst of family violence.

Later in the article, this important point is made:

The United Nations estimates that 5,000 women and girls are murdered each year in so-called honor killings,

So that's 5000 "honor killings" worldwide, for all groups but mostly this will be split between Muslims, Sikhs, and Hindus. So:

Adeena Niazi, the executive director of the Afghan Women's Organization in Toronto said the killings were domestic violence, and not motivated by religion, culture or an unwillingness to adapt to Canadian values.

"What would happen if the family was not Afghan? What happens if a person from mainstream kills his girlfriend or wife? Is it a cultural issue? Of course not," she said, describing the Afghan community in Canada as outraged by the quadruple killings.

I'm not sure how the term "honor killing" was arrived at or when its applied, but certainly parents murder their children at a much higher rate worldwide than 5000 per year.

All in all, I think the story of this case has two main morals.

1. The family services and police in Montreal dropped the ball when the daughters reached out to them prior to the murders.

2. After the fact the system worked perfectly, with the criminals identified, convicted, and sentenced to the harshest penalty available, with everybody from the Federal Justice Minister to Muslim groups condemning the crime as evil and the perpetrators as scum.

To turn it into an immigration debate seems illogical, and frankly reeks of opportunistic exploitation of a real crime by certain anti-immigrant factions.

Thank you Very Much for your post, Ibrahim.

Drowned were they........ reminds me of a case in Saudi Arabia (swimming pool) ****

My Quick and very dirty solution to all of this........

Small arms training and possession for all Muslim women/all women/all sane humans of any sex or lack thereof who are willing to defend themselves....

Yes including responsible teenagers & even younger if responsible......... Remembering the Boy Scout Shooting Merit Badge.......

Trained to use AND be WILLING to use in self defense..............

Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6..............

Doesn't matter that he is your little brother in Jordan or your Mother in Law in India or your dammed Dad in Canada or US/America ..........
If he/she/it/they come at you with a knife or gun or a can of kerosene or a car etc.........

Or especially that band of Religious "Mutaween" Policemen blockading the School Fire Escape........

Do your best to waste him/her/It**/Them...........

Turn that dirty dog of Muttaween into mutt food...........

To make a Sikh joke: get at least "Baptized" in Arms........ Go armed at all times if it is at all likely that someone(s) want to Singh oops I mean singe you........ And I ain't a lyin' /lion ..............

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikh#Five_Ks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singh


As a bonus, IIRC shooting is one of the Olympic sports allowed to Islamic women, you can be in a burka and still hold & aim your "heater"

Actually that burka might be a good place to hide a bigger arsenal than the local gun store

*Unarmed & knife etc. training too...........

**Or at least take him/her along with you in the case of the kerosene: grab & hold on & rub as the bitch or bastard lights the match if you can't get away :twist ***

***Remembering a movie where a "witch" about to be burned manages to swallow a canister of gunpowder.......... lots of "collateral" damage........ :


****To be very fair, remembering 2 slightly/somewhat similar cases here among US : that greedy lying evil bitch Susan Smith who drowned her kids in her car and then said a black man had kidnapped them ... all so she could shack up with a rich man .......... and that nutcase Andrea Yates who drowned her kids in a bathtub........ One of the Andrea's kids was 7 .....ironically named Noah ........ maybe old enough if he had been taught to resist and that Mommy was crazy.........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Smith

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Yates

Channeling the Samson Masada Meme

[monster_gardener]

.

Don't know what was wrong with the old thread 2B moved to Hell

Fact of life is "Muslim hating" now mainstream in west, no hurt feelin Colonel

things become "hate crime" when Rhubarb involved

but , was saying :

look, Monster

Anectodes exist for everything, Elvis in McDonalds having a big mac

but

fact of the matter is, rules in Mecca & Jeddah, or in Yemeni Sanaa, christal clear

so

have not heared any "honor killing" in those places .. beheading of unfaithfull, yes, but no "honor killing"

Problem arises when those people move to Paris or Berlin and London where dating, western style, a norm


.

Thank you Very Much for your post, Azari.

Elvis in McDonalds having a big mac

Weird Al: "The ghost of Elvis is living in my den" at about 0:49

Lots more like it..............

9gW2vVM2WAc

And the psychics all agree that the telephone company will soon have a new service that lets you talk to the dead!

UBIK at 1:50................ Get your spray can..........



Don't leave home without it..........

An average Joe could come close to cashing his in Chips

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubik

EDIT: Anime Version! Highly recommended........... Though cannot get it to display in the post as above..........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=en ... X2NHI&NR=1

For Miss FaucieFishTits/Lzzrdgrrl........ at 2:42 Tell me! Tell me! Tell me! how to make my bust size grow ....RanMa 1/2

[Antipatros]

Imam threatened after Shafia decision

http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/ ... algaryHome

Review of facts:

A recent court decision is sparking debate across the country after the conviction of three people in connection with the deaths of four of their female family members.

Mohammad Shafia, 58, his wife Tooba Yahya, 42, and their son Hamed, 21, were each found guilty Sunday of killing the Shafias' three daughters and the older man's first wife.

During the trial, the Crown argued that the deaths were "honour killings," murders intended to restore family dignity after the women's perceived rebellious behaviour.

Justice Robert Maranger alluded to this notion on Sunday when he told the Afghanistan-born family that the women were killed because they "offended your completely twisted concept of honour…that has absolutely no place in any civilized society."

Sisters Zainab, 19, Sahar, 17, and Geeti, 13, along with Shafia's other wife Rona Amir Mohammad, 52, were found dead in one of the family cars at the bottom of a Kingston canal in June 2009.

During the trial, the Crown buttressed its case with photos of the teenaged girls dressed in Western clothing and alleged the father was angry because the girls had boyfriends.

Judge Maranger referred to the murders as "cold-blooded" and "heinous" on Sunday. He went on to say that the killings were an "honourless crime."

Now, the interesting part:

Leaders in Calgary's Muslim community are also reacting to the Shafia verdict but for one of those leaders, his support of the verdict has invited threats of violence.

Imam Syed Soharwardy says he has been threatened nine times in the last two days for his views on the outcome of the Shafia case.

The founder of the Islamic Council of Canada says the trial ended the way it should have.

‘I talked about domestic violence and honour killing. That this is absolutely horrible crimes that in Muslim may come and see this as there is room in our religion. There is no room for this kind of crime in religion," said Soharwardy.

The imam says the case has shed light on the tensions and challenges young Afghan women face and he says government has to do more to educate those women and their families when they arrive here.

"Not only just have a test, you know, about Canada but before anybody comes here I think the government has a responsibility to clearly say what kind of society this Canada is," said Soharwardy.

Police are now investigating the threats against Soharwardy.

The convicted Shafia family members maintain their innocence and have vehemently denied the idea that the women were killed over family dignity.

Apparently even taking a stand against honour killings exposes one to threats of murder.

[monster_gardener]

Imam threatened after Shafia decision

http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/ ... algaryHome

Review of facts:

A recent court decision is sparking debate across the country after the conviction of three people in connection with the deaths of four of their female family members.

Mohammad Shafia, 58, his wife Tooba Yahya, 42, and their son Hamed, 21, were each found guilty Sunday of killing the Shafias' three daughters and the older man's first wife.

During the trial, the Crown argued that the deaths were "honour killings," murders intended to restore family dignity after the women's perceived rebellious behaviour.

Justice Robert Maranger alluded to this notion on Sunday when he told the Afghanistan-born family that the women were killed because they "offended your completely twisted concept of honour…that has absolutely no place in any civilized society."

Sisters Zainab, 19, Sahar, 17, and Geeti, 13, along with Shafia's other wife Rona Amir Mohammad, 52, were found dead in one of the family cars at the bottom of a Kingston canal in June 2009.

During the trial, the Crown buttressed its case with photos of the teenaged girls dressed in Western clothing and alleged the father was angry because the girls had boyfriends.

Judge Maranger referred to the murders as "cold-blooded" and "heinous" on Sunday. He went on to say that the killings were an "honourless crime."

Now, the interesting part:

Leaders in Calgary's Muslim community are also reacting to the Shafia verdict but for one of those leaders, his support of the verdict has invited threats of violence.

Imam Syed Soharwardy says he has been threatened nine times in the last two days for his views on the outcome of the Shafia case.

The founder of the Islamic Council of Canada says the trial ended the way it should have.

‘I talked about domestic violence and honour killing. That this is absolutely horrible crimes that in Muslim may come and see this as there is room in our religion. There is no room for this kind of crime in religion," said Soharwardy.

The imam says the case has shed light on the tensions and challenges young Afghan women face and he says government has to do more to educate those women and their families when they arrive here.

"Not only just have a test, you know, about Canada but before anybody comes here I think the government has a responsibility to clearly say what kind of society this Canada is," said Soharwardy.

Police are now investigating the threats against Soharwardy.

The convicted Shafia family members maintain their innocence and have vehemently denied the idea that the women were killed over family dignity.

Apparently even taking a stand against honour killings exposes one to threats of murder.

Thank you Very Much for your post, Antripatros.

3 Cheers for Militant Muslim Moderates, Again

Imam Syed B. Soharwardy ()

Prof. Imam Syed B. Soharwardy is the first Muslim Canadian who walked across Canada, more than 6,500 kms, leading the Multifaith Walk Against Violence . (April 14 to October 27, 2008).

Imam Syed Soharwardy was born in a highly respected religious family in Karachi, Pakistan. His father, Allama Syed Muhammad Riazuddin Soharwardy (May Allah shower His blessings upon him) was a famous Islamic scholar and the Imam of Jamia Bughdadi Masjid, Martin Road, Karachi where he established Dar-ul-Aloom Soharwardia. Imam Soharwardy's grandfather, Allama Syed Muhammad Jalaluddin Chishty (May Allah shower His blessings upon him) was the Grand Mufti of Kashmir (Baramula). Allama Jalaluddin Chishty later migrated to Amritser (India) where he served as the head of Dar-ul-Aloom Nizamiah Sirajiah and the Imam of a Mosque.

Imam Syed Soharwardy is one of the direct descendents of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Through Imam Ja’far us-Sadiq (May Allah’s peace upon him), Imam Soharwardy’s lineage reaches Sayyidatunnisa (leader of all women) Hazrat Fatimah Binte Muhammad Ibn Abdullah (Peace be upon him), the wife of Ameer ul Mo’mineen Sayyidna Imam Ali (May Allah’s peace upon him). His ancestors migrated from Syria to Iran where they settled in Zarrin OR Zarrindasht area in Asfahan province. During 1200s A.H. famous sufi scholar Hazrat Syed Bahauddin Ziryani (May Allah be pleased with him) was born in this family. Later, Hazrat Syed Bahauddin Ziryani migrated to Kashmir (India) and settled, where in his fifth generation, Allama Mufti Syed Muhammad Jalaluddin Chishty (May Allah be pleased with him) was born.

Imam Soharwardy received his early Islamic education from his father, teacher and Murshad (spiritual guide) in the traditional Islamic Madrasah at Bughdadi Masjid, Martin Road, Karachi, Pakistan. Later, he graduated from Dar-ul-Aloom Soharwardia, Karachi. Mr. Soharwardy also earned Bachelor of Arts degree in Islamic Studies from University of Karachi.

Beside his Islamic education, Mr. Soharwardy earned Bachelor of Engineering (Electrical) from N.E.D. University of Engineering & Technology, Karachi, Master of Science in Management Engineering from New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, NJ, USA and Master of Engineering in Project Management from University of Calgary, Calgary, Canada.

Imam Syed Soharwardy was appointed as a teacher at Dar-ul-Aloom Soharwardia where he taught various subjects of Islamic studies. Later, he also served as the assistant Imam and Khateeb at Jamia Bughdadi Masjid, Martin Road (1971- 1979). Imam Soharwardy has lectured in Pakistan, USA and Saudi Arabia at various universities and institutes for over 12 years.

Prof. Soharwardy is the founder of Muslims Against Terrorism (MAT). He founded MAT in Calgary in January 1998. He is also the founder of Islamic Supreme Council of Canada (ISCC). He has authored several papers on various topics such as, challenges for Muslims in the western world, conflicts within the Muslim community, Intra and Inter religion conflicts, terrorism, political Islam, etc. Mr. Soharwardy has addressed hundreds of gatherings in Pakistan, USA, UK and Canada on various topics of Islamic faith.

Imam Soharwardy is the founder of the first ever Dar-ul-Aloom in Calgary, Alberta where he teaches Islamic studies. Prof. Soharwardy is the Head Imam at the Al Madinah Calgary Islamic Centre. He lectures in Montreal, Toronto, Mississauga, Brampton, Calgary and Vancouver on monthly basis. Recently, Imam Soharwardy has established “Freedom of Speech Centre” and the “Green Dome Islamic School” in Calgary. Imam Soharwardy is the spiritual leader of Jama’at Ahle Sunnat Canada and the World Sufi Mission Canada. He is also the founder of Multifaith Club of Calgary.

Imam Soharwardy has the “Ijazah” in Soharwardy, Qadri and Chishty sufi orders from his Murshad (spiritual guide), Allama Syed Muhammad Riazuddin Soharwardy, Qadri, Chishty (May Allah’s blessings upon him). He is the Khalifah of his Murshad. His students and Murideen (disciples) have spread out all over the world.

Imam Soharwardy is a strong advocate of Islamic Tasawuf (Sufism) and believes that the world will be a better place for everyone, if we follow what Prophet of Islam, Muhammad (Peace be upon him) has said, " You will not have faith unless you like for others what you like for yourself." He believes that the spiritual weakness in human causes all kinds of problems. Mr. Soharwardy can be contacted at Soharwardy@shaw.ca OR Phone (403)-831-6330.



Note: The word Soharwardy can also be spelled as, Suhrawardi, Suhrawardy, Soharwardi, Sohrawardy, Soharvardy, Suhravardy, Sohravardi, Sohrawardi, sohrevardi, suhrevardi, sohrevardy, sohravardi, etc…

Hoping he is like AIUI Dr. Zuhdi Jasser is here among us/UZ .............

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuhdi_Jasser

Or AIUI the brave cane wielding Egyptian Beauty Salon Ladies: 3 Cheers for them and others who beat religious "MUTTaween" policemen and wannabees........

And St. Godiva of Egypt.......... 3 cheers too........... 4,5,6,7,8, 9 maybe even 10


Trying to research Soharwardy a bit more as the above is from his site: Muslims Against Terrorism........... Started before 911..........

Syed defends the Veil............. AIUI as a personal choice for a minority of Muslim Women............ I disagree.......... Unless it's dusty, the dead of winter or poison gas is about......... masks mean trouble............. trying to hide ID for good or more likely bad reasons..........**

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2011 ... 35656.html

More on this............. not as good as I would have hoped if true............

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/ ... yvgaoHvy_G

A senior leader of Canada’s Muslim community compared a recent policy requiring no face-coverings be worn when new immigrants take the citizenship oath to the dire oppression of Jews in Nazi Germany.

Imam Sayed Soharwardy, a Canadian of Pakistani descent who serves as president of the Supreme Muslim Council of Canada, made his comparison on CTV, provoking strong reactions from Canada’s Jewish community.

“Because intimidation of their faith, badmouthing about their faith, badmouthing about their book, badmouthing about their beliefs — that was going on in Germany before the Holocaust. The same thing is happening now about Muslims,” he said.

“Muslims are going through that situation right now where the Jews faced before the Holocaust,” he told CTV earlier this week.

Chairman of the B’nai Brith, Frank Diamant, condemned Soharwardy’s statement, saying that his comparison was patently false by historical standards and demonstrated contempt for the actual events Holocaust.

Diamant called on religious and public figures in Canada to respect the true political context of the Holocaust – and to exercise restraint and avoid unacceptable comparisons in their statements.

Journalist Ezra Levant sharply attacked the Soharwardy claim as well, telling The Sun TV the Imam is a “media whore” who will “do anything to get publicity.”

Levant noted that Soharwardy claims to be liberal in his views but supports the application of Islamic Sharia law in Canada, and went so far as to file a now-failed lawsuit to curtail the freedom of speech in Canada after the Western Standard published cartoons of Muhammad.

He also noted Soharwardy constantly seeks to propagate an “insane conspiracy theory” claiming Western organizations seeking to aid Somalia during the famine in the country were actually plotting to kidnap Muslim children and forcibly convert them to Christianity.

The Vancouver Sun newspaper reported Soharwardy deflected criticism of his remarks saying he had been “misunderstood,” and that he plans to initiate a meeting with the Jewish Community Council of Calgary.

“I have asked for a meeting, and after the meeting, I’m going to comment,” Soharwardy said. “I just don’t want any misunderstanding that people are trying to create.”

Judy Shapiro, community relations director with the Calgary Jewish Community Council, told The Nation she understood that the Imam was disagreeing with federal government policy.

“But there is no comparison between what Canadian Muslims are facing today and what the Jews faced in Germany before the Holocaust,” Shapiro said.

“Not only is such a statement factually wrong, but it’s insensitive, at the very least, not only to the Jewish community, but to all Canadians. To equate Canadians to Nazis is totally unwarranted.”

Shapiro added no meeting has been set up – but indicated any such meeting would be strictly private.

Canadian officials maintain that the face-covering ban at citizenship ceremonies is the only way to be certain new immigrants actually take the oath.

The ban comes at a time when the Supreme Court is hearing arguments as to whether a Muslim woman has the right to wear her veil when testifying against two men she accuses of sexually assaulting her.

Legal analysts say wearing a face covering during testimony raises serious questions in terms of a jury or judge’s ability to evaluate a witness’ affect and veracity.

IMVVVHO some people are waayy too sensitive about Holocaust comparisons....... Hitler is the gold standard for Holocausts but others have managed that evil alchemy too............ Pol Pot vs. those who needed to wear glasses......

His critics are wrong to that extent............. Even if IMHO Soharwardy is largely wrong about veils.........

The other stuff bothers me: Support for Sharia is on my Satan list...........

Don't know about the Somalia situation........... If true Soharwardy is right............ If not..............

In anycase he is against crap like Honor killings and getting death threats..........

So 2 cheers at least............ may need to send him a Egyptian cane

Inviting Canadians (Ibrahim, Azari, Milo, Northern Observer (miss you) ) and others more familar with Mr. Soharwardy to comment..........

Would prefer Dr. Jasser, Egyptian Beauty Salon Cane Ladies and of course St. Godiva riding by on her horse as neighbors to Republic of Gilead wannabees like Gary North...........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handmaid%27s_Tale

The Wiki does NOT warn sufficiently of North's dangerous views............ Full bore OT Tanakh as law of land........... largely Sharia except you are allowed to drink yourself into a stupor to escape the stupidity.............

North has associated with Ron Paul and George W. Bush sent condolences on the death of his father-in-law Rousas Rooshdoony.............

North is also for the Gold Standard and against fractional reserve banking........ may be partially correct here........ but I prefer fiat money and NO Christian Sharia.........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_North ... tionist%29

Christian Reconstruction
See also: Dominionism and Christian Reconstructionism

Rushdoony's most important area of writing, however, was law and politics, as expressed in his small book of popular essays Law & Liberty and discussed in much greater detail in his three-volume, 1,894-page magnum opus, The Institutes of Biblical Law. With a title modeled after Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion, Rushdoony's Institutes was arguably his most influential work. In the book, he proposed that Old Testament law should be applied to modern society and that there should be a Christian theonomy, a concept developed in his colleague Greg Bahnsen's controversial tome Theonomy and Christian Ethics, which Rushdoony heartily endorsed. In the Institutes, Rushdoony supported the reinstatement of the Mosaic law's penal sanctions. Under such a system, the list of civil crimes which carried a death sentence would include homosexuality, adultery, incest, lying about one's virginity, bestiality, witchcraft, idolatry or apostasy, public blasphemy, false prophesying, kidnapping, rape, and bearing false witness in a capital case.[9] Although supporting the separation of church and state at the national level, Rushdoony understood both institutions as under the rule of God,[10] and thus he conceived secularism as posing endless false antitheses, which his massive work addresses in considerable detail. In short, he sought to cast a vision for the reconstruction of society based on Christian principles.

The book was also critical of democracy. He wrote that "the heresy of democracy has since then worked havoc in church and state ... Christianity and democracy are inevitably enemies." He elsewhere said that "Christianity is completely and radically anti-democratic; it is committed to spiritual aristocracy," and characterized democracy as "the great love of the failures and cowards of life."[5]

Rushdoony's work has been used by Dominion Theology advocates who attempt to implement a Christian theocracy, a government subject to Biblical law, especially the Torah, in the United States. Authority, behavioural boundaries, economics, penology and the like would all be governed by biblical principles in Rushdoony's vision, but he also proposed a wide system of freedom, especially in the economic sphere, and claimed Ludwig von Mises as an intellectual mentor; he called himself a Christian libertarian.[11]

Rushdoony was the founder in 1965 of the Chalcedon Foundation and the editor of its monthly magazine, the Chalcedon Report. He also published the Journal of Christian Reconstruction and was an early board member of the Rutherford Institute, founded in 1982 by John W. Whitehead. He later received an honorary Doctorate from Valley Christian University for his book, The Philosophy of the Christian Curriculum.
[edit] Criticism

Rushdoony was, and remains, a controversial figure, as is the Christian Reconstructionist movement in which he was involved.

Pointing to Rushdoony's dislike of democracy and tolerance and the wide use he would make of the death penalty, the British Centre for Science Education called him "a man every bit as potentially murderous as Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot or anyone else you may want to name amongst the annals of evil" and "a thoroughly evil man."[5]
[edit] Racism and Holocaust denial

Rushdoony has been accused of Holocaust denial and racism.[12] Rushdoony wrote that interracial marriage, which he referred to as "unequal yoking", should be made illegal.[13] He also opposed "enforced integration", referred to Southern slavery as "benevolent", and said that "some people are by nature slaves".[14]

In The Institutes of Biblical Law he uses the 1967 work Judaism and the Vatican by Léon de Poncins as a source for Paul Rassinier's figure of 1.2 million Jewish deaths during the Holocaust, and the claim that Raul Hilberg calculated the number at 896,292, and further asserts that very many of these died of epidemics. He calls the charge of 6 million Jewish deaths "false witness" against Germany.[15][16] In 2000, Rushdoony stated concerning this passage in his Institutes "It was not my purpose to enter a debate over numbers, whether millions were killed, or tens of millions, an area which must be left to others with expertise in such matters. My point then and now is that in all such matters what the Ninth Commandment requires is the truth, not exaggeration, irrespective of the cause one seeks to serve."[17] Carl R. Trueman, Professor of Historical Theology and Church History at Westminster Theological Seminary wrote in 2009 regarding the passage and Rushdoony's Holocaust denial:

His sources are atrocious, secondhand, and unverified; that he held this position speaks volumes about this appalling incompetence as a historian, and one can only speculate as to why he held the position from a moral perspective... He deals with the matter under the issue of the ninth commandment and, ironically breaches it himself in his presentation of the matter.[18]

Wiki does NOT go far enough..........

Also only religions tolerated are Christianity & Judaism (maybe: I don't trust Gileadites): wonder if that includes Catholics/Orthodox, Mormons/LDS, Jehovah's Witnesses........

Death penalty for disobedience to parents, fornication in a city IIRC, breaking the Sabbath.............

Desperately Seeking Handmaidens in all probability too IMO..... that's in the OTankh playbook too...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rousas_Joh ... nstruction

Come that, I hope to move to Canada, preparatory perhaps to elsewhere.............

**It's a bit different back home in Trolla

[Antipatros]

Some brief points on Syed Soharwardy:

* Soharwardy is Sufi, so he's had to rebuff repeated Wahhabi/Salafi attempts to seize control of his mosque (as have the Ahmadis here).

* He has little tolerance for incitement to violence, as when other Muslims tell him he should beat his wife until she agrees to wear the hijab. He does, however, become quite perturbed himself in the face of any real or imagined slight against Mohammed.

* One of his favourite themes is, "There are 57 or 58 Muslim-majority countries, but not one Islamic country, not even Saudi Arabia or Iran." He has a somewhat utopian view of what sharia is or should be, one at variance with most of his co-religionists.

* He teaches that religious fanaticism is a sin. I don't know the exact source of his belief, but it may parallel the Jewish teaching "no flour, no Torah" (i.e. one must balance real life with religion).

So yes, he is an interesting bloke, but he is no Dr. Jasser.

[monster_gardener]

Some brief points on Syed Soharwardy:

* Soharwardy is Sufi, so he's had to rebuff repeated Wahhabi/Salafi attempts to seize control of his mosque (as have the Ahmadis here).

* He has little tolerance for incitement to violence, as when other Muslims tell him he should beat his wife until she agrees to wear the hijab. He does, however, become quite perturbed himself in the face of any real or imagined slight against Mohammed.

* One of his favourite themes is, "There are 57 or 58 Muslim-majority countries, but not one Islamic country, not even Saudi Arabia or Iran." He has a somewhat utopian view of what sharia is or should be, one at variance with most of his co-religionists.

* He teaches that religious fanaticism is a sin. I don't know the exact source of his belief, but it may parallel the Jewish teaching "no flour, no Torah" (i.e. one must balance real life with religion).

So yes, he is an interesting bloke, but he is no Dr. Jasser.

Thank you VERY MUCH for your reply, Antipatros.

Thanks for the info........

Given that: Probably 2.5 to 3 Cheers for Mr. Soharwardy!

* He has little tolerance for incitement to violence, as when other Muslims tell him he should beat his wife until she agrees to wear the hijab. He does, however, become quite perturbed himself in the face of any real or imagined slight against Mohammed.

I don't necessarily trust Sufis*.....BUT no incitement to violence is WONDERFUL........ the Mohammed sensitivity not so much........

* One of his favourite themes is, "There are 57 or 58 Muslim-majority countries, but not one Islamic country, not even Saudi Arabia or Iran." He has a somewhat utopian view of what sharia is or should be, one at variance with most of his co-religionists.

Could you please expand more..........


The search for the perfect can be the Enemy of the Good.........

Ron and Rand Paul aren't perfect either...........

Ron associated with North, Rand has expressed a liking for Ayn Rand.........

Still recommending that we/UZ vote for them..........

As always..........

Hope we/US/UZ

Rp6-wG5LLqE


*Their founder Al-Ghazali IMVHO may have been among the worst for InFuddels like UZ : Incitement to Razzias.........

W. M. Watt (1953; 1995) speaks for many when he describes al-Ghazali as 'the greatest Muslim after Muhammad', and says that 'he is by no means unworthy of that dignity' (13). However, on a negative note it has been argued that al-Ghazali's encounter with skepticism led him to embrace a form of theological occasionalism, or the belief that all causal events and interactions are not the product of material conjunctions—but rather the immediate and present will of Allah—that has subsequently resulted in a turn towards fundamentalism in many Islamic societies. However, as noted above, while al-Ghazali probably did contribute to the decline of rational thought in Islam, it is highly unlikely that any link can be established between his legacy and fundamentalist Islam. In fact, where fundamentalism is popular, al-Ghazali is not—perhaps because fundamentalism is usually associated with intense dislike of Sufi Islam, which he championed. As Kabbani (1996) pointed out, there is a tendency for fundamentalists to attack “Imam Ghazali and [to belittle] those who read his works and cite them to illustrate their opinions” (326). Al-Ghazali is sometimes charged with having had a negative view of non-Muslims and to encourage jihad against them. The following passage from his work on Shafi law, Al-wajiz fi fiqh al-imam al-shafi'i, which he wrote in 1101, and is widely cited:

one must go on jihad (i.e., warlike razzias or raids) at least once a year… one may use a catapult against them [non-Muslims] when they are in a fortress, even if among them are women and children. One may set fire to them and/or drown them...If a person of the Ahl al-Kitab [People of The Book – Jews and Christians, typically] is enslaved, his marriage is [automatically] revoked. A woman and her child taken into slavery should not be separated...One may cut down their trees…. One must destroy their useless books. Jihadists may take as booty whatever they decide… they may steal as much food as they need… (1979: 186-90 cited by Boston, 2004).

However, alongside this negative passage several more positive ones can be set and it is worth pointing out that in the above-cited text, Al-Ghazali was outlining Shafi's legal tradition, not stating his own views. The dominant legal device was taqlid (imitation), not innovation.

Zwemer, not the most sympathetic of scholars towards the faith of Islam, cited two contradictory passages on al-Ghazali's attitude towards non-Muslims. The first is from his Faysal at-tafriqa, where he wrote:

I would say that the majority of Turks and Byzantine Christians of our time come under the divine mercy, God willing. I refer to the inhabitants of the Byzantine and Turkish regions most distant from us, whom the call has not yet reached to embrace Islam (Zwemer: 291; see extract at http://www.diafrica.org/nigeriaop/kenny ... iews32.htm).

The second is from the last past of the Ihya, where Ghazali repeats a tradition that all Muslims will be saved and that to enable this, for every Muslim destined to go to hell, a Christian or a Jew will be substituted. Nonetheless, says Zwemer, his statements elsewhere about Christianity “and his quotations from the Gospel narrative did much to leaven Persian thought and gave Jesus of Nazareth a large place in later mysticism especially in the foremost mystical poet the immortal author of the Mashnavi, Jallal-udin-Ar-Rumi” (192).

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Al-Ghazali

[Hans Bulvai]

Where in the Quran does it talk about 'honor killings' ?

[AzariLoveIran]

Some brief points on Syed Soharwardy:

* Soharwardy is Sufi, so he's had to rebuff repeated Wahhabi/Salafi attempts to seize control of his mosque (as have the Ahmadis here).

* He has little tolerance for incitement to violence, as when other Muslims tell him he should beat his wife until she agrees to wear the hijab. He does, however, become quite perturbed himself in the face of any real or imagined slight against Mohammed.

* One of his favourite themes is, "There are 57 or 58 Muslim-majority countries, but not one Islamic country, not even Saudi Arabia or Iran." He has a somewhat utopian view of what sharia is or should be, one at variance with most of his co-religionists.

* He teaches that religious fanaticism is a sin. I don't know the exact source of his belief, but it may parallel the Jewish teaching "no flour, no Torah" (i.e. one must balance real life with religion).

So yes, he is an interesting bloke, but he is no Dr. Jasser.

Thank you VERY MUCH for your reply, Antipatros.

Thanks for the info........

Given that: Probably 2.5 to 3 Cheers for Mr. Soharwardy!

* He has little tolerance for incitement to violence, as when other Muslims tell him he should beat his wife until she agrees to wear the hijab. He does, however, become quite perturbed himself in the face of any real or imagined slight against Mohammed.

I don't necessarily trust Sufis*.....BUT no incitement to violence is WONDERFUL........ the Mohammed sensitivity not so much........

* One of his favourite themes is, "There are 57 or 58 Muslim-majority countries, but not one Islamic country, not even Saudi Arabia or Iran." He has a somewhat utopian view of what sharia is or should be, one at variance with most of his co-religionists.

Could you please expand more..........


The search for the perfect can be the Enemy of the Good.........

Ron and Rand Paul aren't perfect either...........

Ron associated with North, Rand has expressed a liking for Ayn Rand.........

Still recommending that we/UZ vote for them..........

As always..........

Hope we/US/UZ


*Their founder Al-Ghazali IMVHO may have been among the worst for InFuddels like UZ : Incitement to Razzias.........

W. M. Watt (1953; 1995) speaks for many when he describes al-Ghazali as 'the greatest Muslim after Muhammad', and says that 'he is by no means unworthy of that dignity' (13). However, on a negative note it has been argued that al-Ghazali's encounter with skepticism led him to embrace a form of theological occasionalism, or the belief that all causal events and interactions are not the product of material conjunctions—but rather the immediate and present will of Allah—that has subsequently resulted in a turn towards fundamentalism in many Islamic societies. However, as noted above, while al-Ghazali probably did contribute to the decline of rational thought in Islam, it is highly unlikely that any link can be established between his legacy and fundamentalist Islam. In fact, where fundamentalism is popular, al-Ghazali is not—perhaps because fundamentalism is usually associated with intense dislike of Sufi Islam, which he championed. As Kabbani (1996) pointed out, there is a tendency for fundamentalists to attack “Imam Ghazali and [to belittle] those who read his works and cite them to illustrate their opinions” (326). Al-Ghazali is sometimes charged with having had a negative view of non-Muslims and to encourage jihad against them. The following passage from his work on Shafi law, Al-wajiz fi fiqh al-imam al-shafi'i, which he wrote in 1101, and is widely cited:

one must go on jihad (i.e., warlike razzias or raids) at least once a year… one may use a catapult against them [non-Muslims] when they are in a fortress, even if among them are women and children. One may set fire to them and/or drown them...If a person of the Ahl al-Kitab [People of The Book – Jews and Christians, typically] is enslaved, his marriage is [automatically] revoked. A woman and her child taken into slavery should not be separated...One may cut down their trees…. One must destroy their useless books. Jihadists may take as booty whatever they decide… they may steal as much food as they need… (1979: 186-90 cited by Boston, 2004).

However, alongside this negative passage several more positive ones can be set and it is worth pointing out that in the above-cited text, Al-Ghazali was outlining Shafi's legal tradition, not stating his own views. The dominant legal device was taqlid (imitation), not innovation.

Zwemer, not the most sympathetic of scholars towards the faith of Islam, cited two contradictory passages on al-Ghazali's attitude towards non-Muslims. The first is from his Faysal at-tafriqa, where he wrote:

I would say that the majority of Turks and Byzantine Christians of our time come under the divine mercy, God willing. I refer to the inhabitants of the Byzantine and Turkish regions most distant from us, whom the call has not yet reached to embrace Islam (Zwemer: 291; see extract at http://www.diafrica.org/nigeriaop/kenny ... iews32.htm).

The second is from the last past of the Ihya, where Ghazali repeats a tradition that all Muslims will be saved and that to enable this, for every Muslim destined to go to hell, a Christian or a Jew will be substituted. Nonetheless, says Zwemer, his statements elsewhere about Christianity “and his quotations from the Gospel narrative did much to leaven Persian thought and gave Jesus of Nazareth a large place in later mysticism especially in the foremost mystical poet the immortal author of the Mashnavi, Jallal-udin-Ar-Rumi” (192).

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Al-Ghazali

.

Monster ,

Ghazali

.
known as Algazel to the western medieval world, born and died in Tus, in the Khorasan province of Persia (modern day Iran) was a Persian Muslim theologian, jurist, philosopher, and mystic.
.

Fārābi

.
The Dehkhoda Dictionary also refers to him as Persian ("فارسی المنتسب"), mentioning that his father was a member of the Persian-speaking Samanid court of Central Asia.
.

Abu Ali Sina

.
was a Persian physician, philosopher, and scientist. He was one of the major Islamic philosophers and his philosophical writings had a profound impact on Islamic philosophy and on medieval European scholasticism. Avicenna integrated the ideas and methodologies of Aristotle, Neoplatonism, and other Greek philosophy with the monotheistic tradition of Islam. Avicenna adopted Neoplatonism's theory of emanation, but he made a distinction between God and the Creation in order to avoid the Neoplatonist tendency towards pantheism. He was one of the first to apply philosophical logic to Islamic theology, and his writing provoked a strong reaction from later Islamic theologians. Nevertheless his works became standard textbooks in the madrasa (schools of the Islamic world).

Avicenna is also well known for his medical work, The Canon of Medicine, also known as the Qanun (full title: al-qanun fil-tibb), which was translated into Latin in the twelfth century, and was used for several centuries in medieval Europe and the Arab world as a major medical textbook. He was the author of 450 books on a wide range of subjects. He wrote three encyclopedias of philosophy, the most famous of which is al-Shifa’ (The Cure).
.

Monster , pretty much all giants of that time and that space , philosophers, scientists and and and .. humbly .. are Iranians

and

Real Islam philosophy, not that of Bedouin tribe, but deep mysticism and philosophical, pretty much, all Iranian

Iranians resent when and "AL" is added to the names of our beloved giants of civilization to give it an Arabize spin


.

[monster_gardener]

Where in the Quran does it talk about 'honor killings' ?

Thank you Very Much for your post, Hans.

Rhetorical but honest question: What do the Hadith, Suna, Fiqh, and especially Muslim/Arab Cultural tradition say about honor killing...........?

Winging it......... lack of time.......... but as I have said before, IMVVHO a Koran ONLY islam might well be less into death and destruction that most of the standard brands of Islam are/have been...........

To that extent, a Koran only "fundamentalist" Islam has the unrealized potential to be less deadly than the Tanakh* by itself* or the toxic teachings of Christian Reconstructionist/Dominonist/Wild about Handmaids Gilead wannabee types like Gary North & Rushdoony...............

Without doing a search I would be willing to bet a 2012 C.E. fiat fractional reserve dollar to be donated to Red Cross/Crescent/poor box/convenient beggar/or added to a restaurant tip that the Koran itself most likely says nothing or opposes honor killing.......... IIRC it opposes infanticide............

Islam is NOT the world's worst meme mangling mankind but it has some bad baggages that have become more or less sacred memes...........
some from IMVHO Mohammed himself............. and some from 7th Century Arab culture........... and bad behavior since then.............



*To be fair to much of Modern Judaism, AIUI the contention is that the Tanakh/OT is only the "hardware" and the Oral Law is the software" needed to make the system work...... Again AIUI supposedly Moderating what is found in the OT/Tanakh IIRC A Sanhedrin with 1 death sentence every 7 to 70 years being considered "bloody" ..... while with Islam, the "software" often but not always makes it more destructive........

Remembering "Reliance of the Traveller". The book of Fiqh............... Telling the truth about a Muslim is slander if it protrays him or her in a negative light......... Al Ghalazi founder of the Sufis on jihad raids........................ Things like that........

[Hans Bulvai]

What does the Hadith say about honor killings? I looked but was only able to find this. I don't need to say anymore reallt other than honor killings exist across all eastern cultures, give or take.

http://imageofmohammed.com/2011/09/02/h ... and-islam/

“Honor Killing” and Islam
Posted by admin on September 2, 2011
The American Muslim community is reeling from news of the horrific beheading of Aasiya Hassan, allegedly by her husband Muzzammil Hassan. They were respected members of the community and co-founded BridgesTV, a television network ironically dedicated to fighting negative stereotypes of Muslims. As one of the first Muslims to succeed as a writer in Hollywood, I have been interviewed several times on BridgesTV and was delighted by the professionalism and media savvy of its staff. I had never met the Hassans, but I had been proud of their accomplishments. They were bringing an Islam of love, compassion and human brotherhood to the world, while countering the horrific images of violence and misogyny that had tainted how my fellow Americans saw my faith. The Hassans were people I admired — educated professionals and patriotic Americans with a commitment to family and community.

And then I heard how Aasiya Hassan died and I wanted to throw up.

Right now there is a great deal of discussion in the media about whether her murder was an “honor killing.” And among the more bigoted commentators, there are cries that this horrific murder has proven the “true face of Islam” to the world. That no matter how hard Muslims try to sell an Islam of peace and social justice, a headless corpse of a poor, abused woman will always be its legacy to humanity. I hear these words, and I want to cry out “No! This isn’t Islam! This isn’t the beautiful religion that brings comfort and joy to a billion people worldwide.” But then I see images in my mind of Aasiya Hassan lying decapitated in a pool of blood and I am left wondering why anyone should listen.

The greatest tragedy for me as a Muslim is that my faith is associated with such horrific actions that run counter to everything that Prophet Muhammad stood for. To those who know little about Islamic history, it may sound laughable to assert that Islam began as a proto-feminist movement. But it’s true. Perhaps the way out of this madness for the Muslim community is to look back at the life of Prophet Muhammad and remember his true legacy as a visionary champion of women’s rights.

I recently finished my first novel, Mother of the Believers, which tells the story of Islam’s birth from the perspective of Aisha, the Prophet’s young wife. As a scholar, poet and warrior, Aisha was one of the most influential women in history, and her life reveals how empowered the women of Islam were at the onset of the faith. As I researched the story of early Islam for my novel, I was struck by how central women’s rights played in the community’s identity from the beginning. The Prophet was a sensitive man who had been orphaned at a young age and grew up in poverty. He saw from childhood the suffering of women and children in pre-Islamic Arabia, where the strong crushed the weak, and dedicated his life to changing the system.

One of the first Arab practices he outlawed was female infanticide. Pre-Islamic Arab men would bury alive unwanted baby girls in the desert, a horrific tradition that Prophet Muhammad ended forever. There is a powerful scene in the Holy Qur’an depicting Judgment Day where the souls of all girls who were slain would rise and confront their fathers, asking the men: “For what crime did you kill me?” And then their fathers would be flung into Hell. It is a vivid image meant to inculcate the true horror of such crimes in the minds of Arabs accustomed to centuries of brutal child murder.

The Prophet also established women’s right to inherit and own property — rights that were not given to Christian women until the 19th century in Europe and America. Considering his concern for women’s welfare, it is not surprising that the Prophet’s earliest followers were female. The first Muslim was his wife Khadijah, a wealthy widow who had been his employer and had proposed marriage to the penniless Muhammad when he was managing her caravans. The first martyr of Islam, Sumaya, was an elderly woman who was killed by Meccan idolaters for refusing to renounce monotheism.

So if all this is true, where does this idea of “honor killing” come from in the Muslim world? Unfortunately, it is one of the ugly elements of pre-Islamic Arabian culture that continues to reassert itself, despite the Prophet’s efforts to eradicate the practice. In fact, Prophet Muhammad nearly lost his own beloved wife to the madness of the crowds screaming about “sexual honor.” In my novel, I detail how his wife Aisha was once falsely accused of adultery and was the victim of a gossip campaign meant to destroy her reputation and potentially her life. The Holy Qur’an exonerated her of the false accusations, and then demanded that anyone accusing a woman of adultery would have to bring four witnesses to the act of sexual intercourse. Of course, such a requirement is impossible to meet, and its purpose was to end the threat to women’s lives under claims of “preserving honor.” Aisha was saved, but generations of women continue to be haunted by this curse from The Days of Ignorance, as Muslims refer to the era before Islam. The greatest tragedy of Islam is that some Muslim men continue to uphold these pagan practices that the Prophet outlawed 1,400 years ago.

As a believer, I have no doubt that those who commit murder in the name of Islam will face the wrath of God in this life and in eternity. But personal belief is not enough. Islam is a religion of action. Muslim men must stand and fight against this evil of “honor killing” that destroys lives and families, shatters the bond of love between men and women, and brings disrepute to Islam, which was sent as a beacon of light to the world. If we fail to do so, we will have failed to follow the example of Prophet Muhammad, a kind and compassionate man who never struck a woman or child in his life. If we remain silent, we will have earned the cruel labels that Islamophobes and bigots seek to give us — barbarians, fanatics and monsters.

The choice that stands before Muslim men is stark. Do we follow ancient and evil practices, creating a cycle of violence and grief, and use culture as an excuse for our sins? Or do we follow our Prophet and create a better world where men and women treat each other with dignity and love? Do we turn life on this Earth into Hell, or into Paradise? The answer will reveal whether we are Muslims, people who have surrendered themselves to the true God of mercy and compassion, or idolaters, people who fashion God according to their own self-serving desires.

May God have mercy on the soul of Aasiya Hassan, and on her children and loved ones. May her tragic death serve as a catalyst to end this ancient and un-Islamic practice of “honor killing” forever.

[Ammianus]

You don't want those things happening in your country?

Then don't import those kinds of people who are predisposed to committing such acts, in such such large numbers and in such short time frames. Screen them out with "cultural attitude" test.

Really isn't that complicated but apparently many prefer to think otherwise.

[Antipatros]

The CBC website implies that anyone outside Canada will be blocked from watching the full episode online. If so, hopefully it will make its way onto Youtube in relatively short order.

Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, Fifth Estate
Broadcast date: Friday, 10 February 2012

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/2011-2012/thehouseofshafia/

The House of Shafia

A father, a mother and a brother stand convicted of the first-degree murders of four women found drowned in a submerged car in a Kingston, Ont. canal -- the so-called "honour killing" that has shocked a nation. But so many questions still remain.

How were three young women and their stepmother held as virtual captives in their own home in a country that prides itself on protecting women and children? How did police and social workers -- highly trained to recognize vulnerable people in potential danger -- not pick up and act on the warning signs that were so obvious to teachers, relatives and friends?

Family and friends break their silence for the first time and reveal what life was like under the iron-fisted rule of a domineering father whose word was law; with a brother who was his eyes, ears and accomplice; and with a mother whose indifference to her daughters' pleas and whose willingness to be a partner in their murders has shocked so many Canadians.

With exclusive interviews, we'll hear from those close enough to know what was going on: relatives who feared for the girls' safety; teachers at their school who knew there was trouble at home; and the two young men who dared to have feelings for the Shafia sisters, but who in the end could not save them.

[Ibrahim]

Apparently even taking a stand against honour killings exposes one to threats of murder.

What exactly do you infer from the fact that a major Imam in Calgary received a number of threats for speaking out against so-called "honor killings?"

[Ibrahim]

You don't want those things happening in your country?

Then don't import those kinds of people who are predisposed to committing such acts, in such such large numbers and in such short time frames. Screen them out with "cultural attitude" test.

Really isn't that complicated but apparently many prefer to think otherwise.

It's difficult to see how a racial discrimination in the immigration process would be successfully or usefully implemented. For example, the overwhelming majority of the 5000 "honor killings" the UN estimates are performed every year worldwide, the majority of them take place among East Indian Hindus, Muslims, and Sikhs. So essentially you are talking about racially discriminating against East Indians as part of the immigration process.

However, white North Americans murder their own children at a comparable or higher rate than East Indians, though it is never termed "honor killing," so the frequency of such murders in the US or Canada would not decrease with racial discrimination against East Indians.

Moreover, East Indians economically outperform most other ethnic groups in Canada in terms of median income, and commit fewer crimes overall than the national average. So racially discriminating against them would lower the national median income, disqualify proven economic performers from participating in the economy, and raise the overall crime rate.

So even before any discussion of the ethical squalor of racial discrimination itself, your suggestion is absolutely terrible on every practical level. Essentially these isolated murders are leveraged by racist or other immigrant-hating groups to try an justify their policies where no such justification exists.

[monster_gardener]

You don't want those things happening in your country?

Then don't import those kinds of people who are predisposed to committing such acts, in such such large numbers and in such short time frames. Screen them out with "cultural attitude" test.

Really isn't that complicated but apparently many prefer to think otherwise.

It's difficult to see how a racial discrimination in the immigration process would be successfully or usefully implemented. For example, the overwhelming majority of the 5000 "honor killings" the UN estimates are performed every year worldwide, the majority of them take place among East Indian Hindus, Muslims, and Sikhs. So essentially you are talking about racially discriminating against East Indians as part of the immigration process.

However, white North Americans murder their own children at a comparable or higher rate than East Indians, though it is never termed "honor killing," so the frequency of such murders in the US or Canada would not decrease with racial discrimination against East Indians.

Moreover, East Indians economically outperform most other ethnic groups in Canada in terms of median income, and commit fewer crimes overall than the national average. So racially discriminating against them would lower the national median income, disqualify proven economic performers from participating in the economy, and raise the overall crime rate.

So even before any discussion of the ethical squalor of racial discrimination itself, your suggestion is absolutely terrible on every practical level. Essentially these isolated murders are leveraged by racist or other immigrant-hating groups to try an justify their policies where no such justification exists.

Thank you Very Much for your post, Ibrahim

However, white North Americans murder their own children at a comparable or higher rate than East Indians, though it is never termed "honor killing,"

Wonder if "Honor Killing" are more common than thought..........

AIUI one of the most frequent types of murder is the murder-suicide........ Usually the man kills his wife or girl friend and then suicides though it can be the reverse................

Is this a Honor Killing?

Maybe..........

Could depend on the motive..........

She/he was cheating on me........ Yes IMVHO

She/he was going to leave me ........ Possibly Yes......... No if it just about income loss...........

She/he had just lost all our money.... gambling........ Probably No.........

She/he was nagging me/mental cruelty.... Maybe... No if for the distress itself... Yes....if for fear of its exposure: Henpecked Husband

East Indian Bride Dowry Burnings..... Probably not as money seems the basic motive but am not completely sure.....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing#Definitions

Impetus:

Susan Cox Powell is an American woman missing from West Valley City, Utah, and last seen on December 6, 2009. Her disappearance has garnered national press attention, and police investigation is ongoing as of February 2012. Significant public scrutiny focused on her husband, Joshua Powell, who was considered a person of interest in the investigation. In late 2011 Joshua lost custody of the couple's two young children shortly after his father, who was living with Joshua and the children, was arrested on voyeurism and child pornography charges. During a supervised visit with his children on February 5, 2012, Joshua killed himself and his children by setting his home on fire, using gasoline as an accelerant

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappeara ... san_Powell

[Antipatros]

Reports from a different network:

Family Murder

Lama Nicolas, Hannah James, 16x9

http://www.globalnews.ca/Pages/Story.aspx?id=6442569808

This week on 16x9, we look at the evidence against Mohammed, Tooba and Hamed Shafia from crime scene to conviction. Lama Nicolas shows us how a perfect storm of witness accounts, cell phone tracking, surveillance and forensics led Hamed and his parents from a tense interrogation room to a first degree murder conviction and life in prison.

WpiF35L9tI0

Shafia relatives threatened

Fri, Feb 3: A key witness in the Shafia trial, a relative of the now-convicted, says he and his family have been threatened and shunned by some of Montreal's Afghan community. Mike Armstrong reports

http://www.globaltvcalgary.com/video/ex ... 4056#video