On the Nature of Things | Forum

Endovelico: I don't know where you're from, but here in America, we had a great deal of talk, college-level doctrine, political philosophy over the last 20 years that preached "tolerance," "diversity," and "multiculturalism." One of the signs of this was a popular bumper sticker that spelled out "Coexist" in the symbols of the world's religions. Very popular with Left-leaning people.

Sounds wonderful, but in reality, those religions are a polar opposites with each other philosophically and morally in various ways -- so the bumper sticker is Orwellian double-talk. Newspeak. All the talk of tolerance and respecting everyone's opinion is too. There's no way in the real world to hold diametrically opposed ideas -- and that's doubly true for trying to apply them to cultural life, where morality == law == worldview.

The gay marriage situation in America is living proof.

Yukon Cornelius wrote:.

Endovelico: I don't know where you're from, but here in America, we had a great deal of talk, college-level doctrine, political philosophy over the last 20 years that preached "tolerance," "diversity," and "multiculturalism." One of the signs of this was a popular bumper sticker that spelled out "Coexist" in the symbols of the world's religions. Very popular with Left-leaning people.

Sounds wonderful, but in reality, those religions are a polar opposites with each other philosophically and morally in various ways -- so the bumper sticker is Orwellian double-talk. Newspeak. All the talk of tolerance and respecting everyone's opinion is too. There's no way in the real world to hold diametrically opposed ideas -- and that's doubly true for trying to apply them to cultural life, where morality == law == worldview.

The gay marriage situation in America is living proof.

.

"Yukon Cornelius", sayin things, enacting laws, bumper stickers .. all .. naive thinking things will change

will not

need 1000s of yrs for changing the mindset .. that called "civilization"

Why no police guarding Jewish cemeteries and synagogues in Iran (despite all Zionist animosity toward Iran) .. there is no law protecting Jews in Iran, no need of .. but, in west, despite all those laws, every day, 100s of incidents of anti semitism

Western mindset still in "dark-ages".

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Yukon Cornelius wrote:Endovelico: I don't know where you're from, but here in America, we had a great deal of talk, college-level doctrine, political philosophy over the last 20 years that preached "tolerance," "diversity," and "multiculturalism." One of the signs of this was a popular bumper sticker that spelled out "Coexist" in the symbols of the world's religions. Very popular with Left-leaning people.

Sounds wonderful, but in reality, those religions are a polar opposites with each other philosophically and morally in various ways -- so the bumper sticker is Orwellian double-talk. Newspeak. All the talk of tolerance and respecting everyone's opinion is too. There's no way in the real world to hold diametrically opposed ideas -- and that's doubly true for trying to apply them to cultural life, where morality == law == worldview.

The gay marriage situation in America is living proof.

That's why I wouldn't dream of living (again) in the US or in some European countries. I prefer my not so developed little country where people are so individualistic that they couldn't care less about what other people do or think. And if we did, no way we could find another five people to join us in fighting for whatever cause. Soccer is the closest we ever come to being tribal... Definitely not religion or politics...

Endovelico wrote:
That's why I wouldn't dream of living (again) in the US or in some European countries. I prefer my not so developed little country where people are so individualistic that they couldn't care less about what other people do or think. And if we did, no way we could find another five people to join us in fighting for whatever cause. Soccer is the closest we ever come to being tribal... Definitely not religion or politics...

Endo,

I just found this one. This comes as somewhat of a shock to me.

I think when it comes to assigning group identity labels to people you have never met, and generalizing about people you have never met, you are perhaps the most tribal person at OTNOT, especially regarding politics and religion.

Read the first sentence you posted above.

Regarding the second and third sentences above. Amen. You'd love SimpleMindedStan and probably also Ayn Rand.

Me thinketh you might be as human as the rest of us. Welcome to the club brother!

Most of us make good neighbors and lousy preachers/leaders. Maybe we should focus on outlawing soapboxes?

I have a dream........ If only people would preach what they practice!

Parodite wrote:

I think that if only people had a way to communicate quickly & easily with those far away.... we'd soon find out we're all in the middle......

Simple Minded wrote:I think that if only people had a way to communicate quickly & easily with those far away.... we'd soon find out we're all in the middle......

Wouldn't it get a bit crowdy there? Heaps of people...

luckily there be several definitions of middle.

Sometimes, it appears to be that about half the people I interact with are below average, and the other half seem to be above average.

Wow, is that weird or what?

Parodite wrote:

Simple Minded wrote:I think that if only people had a way to communicate quickly & easily with those far away.... we'd soon find out we're all in the middle......

Wouldn't it get a bit crowdy there? Heaps of people...

Cyberspace has more than enough Lebensraum for everyone.... even Endo has a place with his name on it......

Simple Minded wrote:Cyberspace has more than enough Lebensraum for everyone.... even Endo has a place with his name on it......

Gee! Thanks!...

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Guess what : The Man Who Became Buddha

.

Dramatic evidence has revealed the presence of Siddhartha Gautama, the man who became Buddha, as far west as Persia. Family seals and records found at Persepolis, the ancient capital of the fourth Persian Emperor, Darius the Great, have been identified and associated with the names of Siddhartha Gautama and his father, Suddhodana Gautama.

The Persepolis Seals identified royals and other important personages within the Persian ruling sphere. Guatama was the name of the royal family of the Saka kingdom.

.

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Endovelico wrote:

Simple Minded wrote:Cyberspace has more than enough Lebensraum for everyone.... even Endo has a place with his name on it......

Gee! Thanks!...

Keep in mind that you are a guest....... and act accordingly!

Never thought I'd find myself quoting a script from a TV show in the philosophy section, but there's always a first time.

Mister Charisma:

_RfUj09pWfM

And, in my view, the same also applies to every political rally, social movement, be it a conservative/fascist or socialist/communist rally, or what have you.

[ One thing I quickly learned living in the US is that if one is an atheist, then it is something that one should keep one's mouth shut about, in general.
Not that saying "Buddhist" was much better received . . .

Where I worked, the scientists were mostly atheist/leftist, the engineers were mostly believers/conservative, and the techs were mostly old-time religion who read their bibles on breaks [that is, when they weren't busy dealing in illicit drugs . . . ] ].

Typhoon,

If you were quoting Walker, Texas Ranger, I'd say you were Americanized. Almost.

At RIT, during a down time, I went to see a professor who I came to know as a good friend, a consummate Engineer/problem solver, and perhaps the wisest man I have ever met (to this day).

Me:
Him: "You have to ask yourself what it is that you are trying to do. Why do you want to become an Engineer?"
Me: Depressed silence.
Him: "Perhaps you are trying to discover knowledge about how the world works, and a set of skills that will enable you to solve problems."
Me:

Not a bad summary of Engineering and Science.

In what parts of the US did you live? What companies did you work for and in what capacities? When did you live in the US?

After a couple decades of studying everything I could find of "value" in the combined arenas of religion/philosophy/psychology I have come to the SM conclusion that human nature is pretty consistent, and all the groups you mention above amount to little more than temporary alliances/adversaries who chant "Yeah man! It looks like my team is going to win all the games this year! In your face pal!" or "Your team sucks! You guys cheat! Just wait till next season!"

rock concerts.... football games..... political rallies...... protests...... what are the differences?

Now I only generalize about three groups "humans," "us," and "them!"

And "I" am always right!!!

Well, people are not all alike and neither are societies. Some societies are more aggressive, some are more tolerant, some are more imaginative, some have more sense of humour, some are more rigid and some are more flexible... So, it is not meaningless to talk about us and about them. As long as you take care not to slide into the superior/inferior characterization... I have no doubt that southern Europeans are different from northern Europeans, and that I prefer the company of those who are closer to what I am. But I would never say that one set is better than the other...

I know what I believe. I believe I am going to have to pay for an HBO subscription just to watch this show. I just hope it is as good as the first two seasons of "Deadwood".

Nonc Hilaire wrote:I know what I believe. I believe I am going to have to pay for an HBO subscription just to watch this show. I just hope it is as good as the first two seasons of "Deadwood".

The first season's ending is simply bad.

Simple Minded wrote:Typhoon,

If you were quoting Walker, Texas Ranger, I'd say you were Americanized. Almost.

Almost . . .

As a counterexample, few people, if any, in Japan would ask another how religious they are. It is just not an issue.

Simple Minded wrote:At RIT, during a down time, I went to see a professor who I came to know as a good friend, a consummate Engineer/problem solver, and perhaps the wisest man I have ever met (to this day).

Me:
Him: "You have to ask yourself what it is that you are trying to do. Why do you want to become an Engineer?"
Me: Depressed silence.
Him: "Perhaps you are trying to discover knowledge about how the world works, and a set of skills that will enable you to solve problems."
Me:

Not a bad summary of Engineering and Science.

Indeed.

Simple Minded wrote:In what parts of the US did you live? What companies did you work for and in what capacities? When did you live in the US?

With that much info, anyone with a bit of skill and determination could easily ID me

In the US Midwest. Near Chicago. One organization. Ph.D. related. Late 1980's to early 1990's. Seven years or so, in all.

Simple Minded wrote:After a couple decades of studying everything I could find of "value" in the combined arenas of religion/philosophy/psychology I have come to the SM conclusion that human nature is pretty consistent, and all the groups you mention above amount to little more than temporary alliances/adversaries who chant "Yeah man! It looks like my team is going to win all the games this year! In your face pal!" or "Your team sucks! You guys cheat! Just wait till next season!"

rock concerts.... football games..... political rallies...... protests...... what are the differences?

Now I only generalize about three groups "humans," "us," and "them!"

And "I" am always right!!!

Something along those lines.

Nonc Hilaire wrote:I know what I believe. I believe I am going to have to pay for an HBO subscription just to watch this show. I just hope it is as good as the first two seasons of "Deadwood".

In my view, it's the best English language fiction series I've seen on TV since the BBC productions of Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy and Smiley's People in the late 1970's and early 1980's, respectively, with the late Alec Guinness as George Smiley. Bar none.

YMix wrote:

Nonc Hilaire wrote:I know what I believe. I believe I am going to have to pay for an HBO subscription just to watch this show. I just hope it is as good as the first two seasons of "Deadwood".

The first season's ending is simply bad.

a docudrama or a sit-com based on the EU would be brilliant. Each nation could be represented by one person who is stereotypically Italian, German, Greek, etc.

guest appearances could include Americans, Canadians, Russians. Actors form larger countries could have multiple personalities and moods.....

Simple Minded wrote:

YMix wrote:

Nonc Hilaire wrote:I know what I believe. I believe I am going to have to pay for an HBO subscription just to watch this show. I just hope it is as good as the first two seasons of "Deadwood".

The first season's ending is simply bad.

a docudrama or a sit-com based on the EU would be brilliant. Each nation could be represented by one person who is stereotypically Italian, German, Greek, etc.

guest appearances could include Americans, Canadians, Russians. Actors form larger countries could have multiple personalities and moods.....

Here's the Brits giving it a go:

MApatYdSxO8

Typhoon wrote:
As a counterexample, few people, if any, in Japan would ask another how religious they are. It is just not an issue.

It is a perverse "badge of honor" for some. For other's it is the equivalent of "What's your sign?"
Surprisingly, I have found that people in the Bible Belt seem less concerned about the religion of others than other places I have lived in the US.

Typhoon wrote:
With that much info, anyone with a bit of skill and determination could easily ID me

No worries mate. I find the Typhoon of my imagination to be completely intellectually & emotionally sufficient for my needs.
Too much accurate information ruins a lot of internet relationships.

Simple Minded wrote:

Typhoon wrote:
As a counterexample, few people, if any, in Japan would ask another how religious they are. It is just not an issue.

It is a perverse "badge of honor" for some. For other's it is the equivalent of "What's your sign?"
Surprisingly, I have found that people in the Bible Belt seem less concerned about the religion of others than other places I have lived in the US.

Quite possible.

I can only go by my own limited experience and some counterexamples to the usual stereotypes:

Back then I used to date a firecracker of a girl from the Bible Belt,
a born-again evangelical christian who did not appear troubled by my lack of religious faith.

On the other hand, my atheistically inclined colleagues did give one of my other also born-again evangelical christian
colleagues a hard time for refusing to work overtime on Sundays.

So I think that it's a question of character rather then a specific set of beliefs.

Simple Minded wrote:

Typhoon wrote:
With that much info, anyone with a bit of skill and determination could easily ID me

No worries mate. I find the Typhoon of my imagination to be completely intellectually & emotionally sufficient for my needs.
Too much accurate information ruins a lot of internet relationships.

I still think that Spenglerman's greatest mistake was to abandon his Spengler nom de plume.

He had people speculating that he was Henry Kissinger.

It was also the beginning of his descent into what might be described as madness.