Bernie Sanders

noddy
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by noddy »

YMix wrote:
noddy wrote:we dont need mass employment like we used to, so either

a) truckloads of people die
b) we come up with other ways of economically integrating them (socialist tactic, via tax money)
c) we leave em to their own devices and rebuild the largely self sufficient regional communitites that only need to dabble in global capitalism (libertarian/south east asian tactic)
d) .....
If there aren't enough jobs, there won't be enough tax revenue to establish a classic socialist system. Maybe a slave state with robots living up to their names (robŭ [sl.] = serf, slave / robota [cz.] = forced labor). Sadly, I think a) is the likeliest outcome.
my bet is that many will send their countries broke on (b) but it will be a mix of (a) and (c) because (c) doesnt work until the population backs off a bit - you can only do it when your local region has self sustaining food and housing and capitalism is the gravy on top.

huge big mega cities of unemployables, well... ive never seen anything but judge dredd in those buggers so i cant say.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

noddy wrote:.

this is not the way forward for billions of people, its a nice little job for milions, at most.

.

"Jobs" are created by "entrepreneurs".

In Old days, before everybody was looking for a "job", people were "creative".

New generation must become creative, creative new things.

Many "elements" of the old economy, still dependent on, are INEFFICIENT .. new technology, internet .. connectivity with the world on fingertip and FREE .. makes things very interesting to venture into taking on elements of old economy and making it more efficient for the user .. now the main game in silicon valley .. think of Uber

.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by noddy »

entrepeneurs dont employ many people anymore.

my living is paid for by them, im highly tuned to it all - i make money turning their ideas into product, then i look for new contracts.

all the systems i build are 100% automated - no admin staff, no sales staff, no employment at all, just the investor and his new electronic product to make money with.

its just not the same as the old industrial job model, its all about short term money and individuals with the right skills making money.

millions, not billions, of workers.

we need to have self sufficient communities that need zero help from external tax money, then this new model is fine - work a bit, get some new toys on the global market, then go back to day to day life locally. like a middle class asian who still has access to village housing and food.
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Robotization Uber Alles..........

Post by monster_gardener »

Heracleum Persicum wrote:
noddy wrote:.

this is not the way forward for billions of people, its a nice little job for milions, at most.

.

"Jobs" are created by "entrepreneurs".

In Old days, before everybody was looking for a "job", people were "creative".

New generation must become creative, creative new things.

Many "elements" of the old economy, still dependent on, are INEFFICIENT .. new technology, internet .. connectivity with the world on fingertip and FREE .. makes things very interesting to venture into taking on elements of old economy and making it more efficient for the user .. now the main game in silicon valley .. think of Uber

.
Thank You Very Much for your post, Azari........
think of Uber
A better example for noddy.........

Given that Uber aims to eliminate not just traditional taxi driver jobs but also even the Uber drivers and private ownership of cars with implications for car/truck manufacturers and workers/drivers........

http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/28/57587 ... iving-cars

Robotization Uber Alles.......... :idea:
For the love of G_d, consider you & I may be mistaken.
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Re: Robotization Uber Alles..........

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

monster_gardener wrote:
Heracleum Persicum wrote:
noddy wrote:.

this is not the way forward for billions of people, its a nice little job for milions, at most.

.

"Jobs" are created by "entrepreneurs".

In Old days, before everybody was looking for a "job", people were "creative".

New generation must become creative, creative new things.

Many "elements" of the old economy, still dependent on, are INEFFICIENT .. new technology, internet .. connectivity with the world on fingertip and FREE .. makes things very interesting to venture into taking on elements of old economy and making it more efficient for the user .. now the main game in silicon valley .. think of Uber

.
Thank You Very Much for your post, Azari........
think of Uber
A better example for noddy.........

Given that Uber aims to eliminate not just traditional taxi driver jobs but also even the Uber drivers and private ownership of cars with implications for car/truck manufacturers and workers/drivers........

http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/28/57587 ... iving-cars

Robotization Uber Alles.......... :idea:


.

There is no "standstill" .. either you going "forward", or "backwards".

Every day new opportunities are created .. just need to open the eyes

.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

FV2wCXKgG1E
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by kmich »

ohvblIKzq28
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

Ms. Gabbard has true class.
“Christ has no body now but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks with compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks among His people to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses His creation.”

Teresa of Ávila
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Re: Robotization Uber Alles..........

Post by noddy »

monster_gardener wrote:
think of Uber
A better example for noddy.........

Given that Uber aims to eliminate not just traditional taxi driver jobs but also even the Uber drivers and private ownership of cars with implications for car/truck manufacturers and workers/drivers........

http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/28/57587 ... iving-cars

Robotization Uber Alles.......... :idea:
perfect example of a mobile phone turning many thousands of jobs into a handful :)

thanks mg.
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Re: Robotization Uber Alles..........

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

noddy wrote:
monster_gardener wrote:
think of Uber
A better example for noddy.........

Given that Uber aims to eliminate not just traditional taxi driver jobs but also even the Uber drivers and private ownership of cars with implications for car/truck manufacturers and workers/drivers........

http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/28/57587 ... iving-cars

Robotization Uber Alles.......... :idea:
perfect example of a mobile phone turning many thousands of jobs into a handful :)

thanks mg.

.

Yes, 1000s of jobs disappear

but

100s of Millions of consumers pay less for transportation

As if one would forbid eMail because Mailman would lose his job, or internet banking bad for bank tellers.

.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by noddy »

thats fine for the ever dwindling percentage of consumers.

every western country has this problem.. every single one.
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Re: Robotization Uber Alles..........

Post by monster_gardener »

noddy wrote:
monster_gardener wrote:
think of Uber
A better example for noddy.........

Given that Uber aims to eliminate not just traditional taxi driver jobs but also even the Uber drivers and private ownership of cars with implications for car/truck manufacturers and workers/drivers........

http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/28/57587 ... iving-cars

Robotization Uber Alles.......... :idea:
perfect example of a mobile phone turning many thousands of jobs into a handful :)

thanks mg.
Thank You VERY Much for your post, Noddy.

You're quite welcome friend Noddy.

Forgot to mention car dealerships, auto part manufacturers, auto part stores, auto repair shops, gasoline stations etc..........

Probably more.......

Uber aims big to disrupt the US economy with robot cars/trucks.................
For the love of G_d, consider you & I may be mistaken.
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Re: Robotization Uber Alles..........

Post by monster_gardener »

Heracleum Persicum wrote:
noddy wrote:
monster_gardener wrote:
think of Uber
A better example for noddy.........

Given that Uber aims to eliminate not just traditional taxi driver jobs but also even the Uber drivers and private ownership of cars with implications for car/truck manufacturers and workers/drivers........

http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/28/57587 ... iving-cars

Robotization Uber Alles.......... :idea:
perfect example of a mobile phone turning many thousands of jobs into a handful :)

thanks mg.

.

Yes, 1000s of jobs disappear

but

100s of Millions of consumers pay less for transportation

As if one would forbid eMail because Mailman would lose his job, or internet banking bad for bank tellers.

.
Thank You Very Much for your post, Azari.
100s of Millions of consumers pay less for transportation
That's nice but...........
Reminds me of George Bush I touting free trade with China.........
For the love of G_d, consider you & I may be mistaken.
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Re: Robotization Uber Alles..........

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

monster_gardener wrote:
Heracleum Persicum wrote:
noddy wrote:
monster_gardener wrote:
think of Uber
A better example for noddy.........

Given that Uber aims to eliminate not just traditional taxi driver jobs but also even the Uber drivers and private ownership of cars with implications for car/truck manufacturers and workers/drivers........

http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/28/57587 ... iving-cars

Robotization Uber Alles.......... :idea:
perfect example of a mobile phone turning many thousands of jobs into a handful :)

thanks mg.

.

Yes, 1000s of jobs disappear

but

100s of Millions of consumers pay less for transportation

As if one would forbid eMail because Mailman would lose his job, or internet banking bad for bank tellers.

.
Thank You Very Much for your post, Azari.
100s of Millions of consumers pay less for transportation
That's nice but ...........

Reminds me of George Bush I touting free trade with China ........

.

In France they forbid "Costco" arguing it would ruin the small Mom&Pop stores .. millions of consumers should pay double for items to protects Mom&Pop stores.

Notion, reason for decline of "American Middle Class" being "free trade with China" just to fool Joe.

America would have lost "competitiveness" no matter what .. without "free trade with China" things would show up later but with much bigger effect. "free trade with China" gave America opportunity to "adjust gradually".

This no fault of China, but fault of American system not changing things to facilitate the adjustment .. It would have needed fundamental changes.


.
Last edited by Heracleum Persicum on Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
noddy
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by noddy »

id agree with that.

the realities of our system, all the inertia on the tax funded socialist left and the legislation protected corporate right, nothing can change and being sensible is being stupid.

the next few decades will not be for the sensible.
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Re: Robotization Uber Alles..........

Post by noddy »

monster_gardener wrote:
noddy wrote:
monster_gardener wrote:
think of Uber
A better example for noddy.........

Given that Uber aims to eliminate not just traditional taxi driver jobs but also even the Uber drivers and private ownership of cars with implications for car/truck manufacturers and workers/drivers........

http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/28/57587 ... iving-cars

Robotization Uber Alles.......... :idea:
perfect example of a mobile phone turning many thousands of jobs into a handful :)

thanks mg.
Thank You VERY Much for your post, Noddy.

You're quite welcome friend Noddy.

Forgot to mention car dealerships, auto part manufacturers, auto part stores, auto repair shops, gasoline stations etc..........

Probably more.......

Uber aims big to disrupt the US economy with robot cars/trucks.................
yeh, it wouldnt matter so much if the system magically scaled down to the new order and we didnt have to suffer for it.

housing, government fees etc only come down after much suffering and many people lose their families :/
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Re: Robotization Uber Alles..........

Post by monster_gardener »

Heracleum Persicum wrote:
monster_gardener wrote:
Heracleum Persicum wrote:
noddy wrote:
monster_gardener wrote:
think of Uber
A better example for noddy.........

Given that Uber aims to eliminate not just traditional taxi driver jobs but also even the Uber drivers and private ownership of cars with implications for car/truck manufacturers and workers/drivers........

http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/28/57587 ... iving-cars

Robotization Uber Alles.......... :idea:
perfect example of a mobile phone turning many thousands of jobs into a handful :)

thanks mg.

.

Yes, 1000s of jobs disappear

but

100s of Millions of consumers pay less for transportation

As if one would forbid eMail because Mailman would lose his job, or internet banking bad for bank tellers.

.
Thank You Very Much for your post, Azari.
100s of Millions of consumers pay less for transportation
That's nice but ...........

Reminds me of George Bush I touting free trade with China ........

.

In France they forbid "Costco" arguing it would ruin the small Mom&Pop stores .. millions of consumers should pay double for items to protects Mom&Pop stores.

Notion, reason for decline of "American Middle Class" being "free trade with China" just to fool Joe.

America would have lost "competitiveness" no matter what .. without "free trade with China" things would show up later but with much bigger effect. "free trade with China" gave America opportunity to "adjust gradually".

This no fault of China, but fault of American system not changing things to facilitate the adjustment .. It would have needed fundamental changes.
Thank You Very Much for your post, Azari,
America would have lost "competitiveness" no matter what
Probably.........
but with much bigger effect.
Doubt that...........
without "free trade with China" things would show up later
Yep........
"free trade with China" gave America opportunity to "adjust gradually".

Not so much..........

Was a big part of the problem...........

Which our bipartisan mis-leaders are intent on enhancing for their fun & profit...........

TPP etc...........
For the love of G_d, consider you & I may be mistaken.
Orion Must Rise: Killer Space Rocks Coming Our way
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by noddy »

the TPP is america forcing its copyright law and farm protections onto australia :)

everyone has something to hate in that.

still, azari is kind of right in that last one, the restructure of the global market and the changes in employment types have been met with denial by our politics and now we pay the price.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

noddy wrote:.

still, azari is kind of right in that last one, the restructure of the global market and the changes in employment types have been met with denial by our politics and now we pay the price.

.

All those "Free Trades" .. with China, with Mexico and and .. would have needed fundamental changes in American laws to take positive advantages of those treaties .. can not change one side of equation without changing the other side of the equation .. but the special interest did not want any change .. the full devastating force was absorbed by Joe the Middle Class when at the same time the 1% reaping the advantages of all those Free trades .. American politicians knew exactly what had to be done, but they were hired by special interest and not Joe .. now, Joe mad, fooled again by blaming Muslims and Mexicans.


.
Last edited by Heracleum Persicum on Wed Mar 30, 2016 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by noddy »

much more to it than that.

joe doesnt blame mexicans and muslims for this - just some types of joe didnt want to become more mexican, or more muslim, thats a seperate issue.

all countries have groups of people who prefer to stick to their own and enjoy easy cultural shorthand and understanding what all the rules are.

not all countries dump lots and lots of foreigners on them and then cover it all in media 24/7 and make sure the looniest loons get the most coverage.

im mostly cool with all flavours of human but i cant honestly say i want more ultra conservative sunni arabs in my life, i think their are plenty of places we can get muslims from that are more compatible.

too many angry young men, either from war torn places or inspired by war torn places and we only have one big muslim ghetto in aus it seems to be all the arab sunni types.

iranians and turks all just slipped into middle class cities, you dont notice them.
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What would have made Free Trade Deals Work For US.....

Post by monster_gardener »

Heracleum Persicum wrote:
noddy wrote:.

still, azari is kind of right in that last one, the restructure of the global market and the changes in employment types have been met with denial by our politics and now we pay the price.

.

All those "Free Trades" .. with China, with Mexico and and .. would have needed fundamental changes in American laws to take positive advantages of those treaties .. can not change one side of equation without changing the other side of the equation .. but the special interest did not want any change .. the full devastating force was absorbed by Joe the Middle Class when at the same time the 1% reaping the advantages of all those Free trades .. American politicians knew exactly what had to be done, but they were hired by special interest and not Joe .. now, Joe mad, fooled again by blaming Muslims and Mexicans.


.
Thank You Very Much for Your Post, Azari.......
but fault of American system not changing things to facilitate the adjustment .. It would have needed fundamental changes.
OK......

What fundamental changes........
For the love of G_d, consider you & I may be mistaken.
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Re: What would have made Free Trade Deals Work For US.....

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

monster_gardener wrote:
Heracleum Persicum wrote:
noddy wrote:.

still, azari is kind of right in that last one, the restructure of the global market and the changes in employment types have been met with denial by our politics and now we pay the price.

.

All those "Free Trades" .. with China, with Mexico and and .. would have needed fundamental changes in American laws to take positive advantages of those treaties .. can not change one side of equation without changing the other side of the equation .. but the special interest did not want any change .. the full devastating force was absorbed by Joe the Middle Class when at the same time the 1% reaping the advantages of all those Free trades .. American politicians knew exactly what had to be done, but they were hired by special interest and not Joe .. now, Joe mad, fooled again by blaming Muslims and Mexicans.


.
Thank You Very Much for Your Post, Azari.......
but fault of American system not changing things to facilitate the adjustment .. It would have needed fundamental changes.
OK......

What fundamental changes .......

.

Excellent question, Monster

To understand the problem, here directly from horse's mouth, David Goldman :

Our elites, to be sure, have sold us down the river

America had 90% adult literacy in 1790, when only half of Englishmen and a fifth of Spaniards and Italians could sign their names. We had the best educated, most motivated, and healthiest workforce in the world by an overwhelming margin.

Now Americans aged 16 to 24 rank at the bottom of a 22-country evaluation of numeracy, literacy, and technological problem-solving.

Poor student performance should be no surprise: America's family structure is falling apart. Nearly 30% of non-Hispanic white children are born out of wedlock, as well as 53% of Hispanics and 73% of African-Americans. When Reagan took office, 18% of all American births were to unmarried mothers. By 2014 the figure was above 40%.

Catch-up ball doesn't begin to describe our predicament. We need nothing short of a great national turnaround.

..

Our elites, to be sure, have sold us down the river. There's unlimited capital for investors to buy foreclosed homes, while half of Americans can't raise a down payment or qualify for a home mortgage.

The Pentagon and the defense contractors slated a trillion dollars for the F-35, the biggest lemon in the history of military aviation, crowding out every other acquisition program in the military.

Our tech companies have become a conspiracy to suppress innovation, managed by patent trolls instead of engineers.

The financial industry ran the biggest scam in history, the subprime bubble of the 2000s, and the Obama administration hasn't sent a single miscreant to jail (it just slapped multi-billion dollar fines on the banks' stockholders, that is, your pension fund or 401k).

The Clintons are a criminal enterprise, as Peter Schweizer showed in his book Clinton Cash.

The foreign policy establishment treated the world like a giant social experiment and wasted blood and treasure to make the world safe for democracy.

The result is the most corrupt and cartelized economy in American history. For the first time since numbers were kept, new business has contributed next to nothing to employment recovery since 2009, as I reported here March 2.

But Donald Trump encourages magical thinking. Repeating, "We're going to make America great again" by kicking out Mexican illegals and repatriating jobs from China is nonsense.

Our elites are rotten, but the people are hurting and confused.

After the generation of the Signers of the Declaration of Independence, America has done a terrible job of forming elites. But we still need leaders who can uplift us, teach us, and inspire us. Self-educated outsiders like Abraham Lincoln and Ronald Reagan have been our ablest leaders, not the valedictorians of Harvard or Yale. Lincoln might have been self-educated, but he was the best thinker of his generation. Reagan also was self-taught, but he had a broad and detailed grasp of foreign policy and understood Robert Mundell's supply-side economics early on. They were also profoundly good men.


..

We are in deep trouble. We need a president who can lead us out of our economic and moral slump. I fear that Ted Cruz is our last, best hope before we follow former superpowers like Britain down the slippery slope to national mediocrity.

:lol:


Now relaaaax .. and .. confirm whether you still want to know what those "fundamental changes" are. :D


.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by Doc »

Image
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by YMix »

He could've gone to the campaign headquarters to get an entire sign.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by noddy »

its a silly example anyway.

they should have taken the entire sign, then provided a 20 page booklet on the exact detailed paperwork steps required for that person to prove they needed 30% of their sign back.
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