Syria

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Parodite
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Has journalism gone all psychopathic?

Post by Parodite »

Not because of HPs link to this particular analysis, but as an illustration of how the media in general report on this conflict, on any conflict included political rivalry between say democrats and republicans in the US.

Most analyses focus on the aspect of power distribution, power games, power (geo-)politics. It seems to me like a certain lens through which the world is perceived and reported on; the lens of a psychopath. He observes patterns, reads power structures, counts dead and wounded, logs the wins and losses without emotion. And always calculates. As if it were a configuration on a chess board, pieces that fall off the playing board are merely taken into account.

The journalist has adopted the calculating psycho pathological mindset of the players that move around their pieces in power combat. In fact, they do those players a big service providing them with those analyses for free in the media; it helps them to calculate the next move or influence how the opponent reads the map. Not too long ago Putin showed he understands this: tell people who belong to your opponent's camp what their leader's next move ought to be in their own interest.
Huxley
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Putin, Assad, and Iran gain; Obama, Turkey, and Israel lose

Post by Huxley »

"Scoring the Syria Deal"
Putin, Assad, and Iran gain; Obama, Turkey, and Israel lose ground.
by Daniel Pipes | National Review Online | September 17, 2013
Daniel Pipes wrote:...We end with two ironies: The U.S.-Russian agreement does not solve the crisis, but delays and deepens it. Obama's almost nonchalant "red line" statement of a year ago was the obscure mistake that could precipitate the great foreign-policy fiasco of his presidency.
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: Putin, Assad, and Iran gain; Obama, Turkey, and Israel l

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

Huxley wrote:.

"Scoring the Syria Deal"


Putin, Assad, and Iran gain; Obama, Turkey, and Israel lose ground.

by Daniel Pipes | National Review Online | September 17, 2013
Daniel Pipes wrote:.

...We end with two ironies: The U.S.-Russian agreement does not solve the crisis, but delays and deepens it. Obama's almost nonchalant "red line" statement of a year ago was the obscure mistake that could precipitate the great foreign-policy fiasco of his presidency.

.
.




This "Daniel Pipe" is an enemy agent on the mission to destroy our beloved America .. am really puzzled
why he not in jail


With all due respect, Huxley, in your expert opinion, you think you should listen to this POS "Daniel Pipe" .. or .. to Both former Pentagon chiefs, Robert M. Gates and Leon E. Panetta ? ? ? :D


Which one you consider a real American patriot .. Both former Pentagon chiefs, Robert M. Gates and Leon E. Panetta .. or Zionist agent Daniel Pipe ? ?

Both former Pentagon chiefs, Robert M. Gates and Leon E. Panetta say "dont touch Syria even with 10 foot pole"

but

AIPAC, and all Zionist agents, and that clown McCain know better, recommending to attack Syria




.
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monster_gardener
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Ideas for Improved Obama Press Conferences..........

Post by monster_gardener »

Heracleum Persicum wrote:
Huxley wrote:.

"Scoring the Syria Deal"


Putin, Assad, and Iran gain; Obama, Turkey, and Israel lose ground.

by Daniel Pipes | National Review Online | September 17, 2013
Daniel Pipes wrote:.

...We end with two ironies: The U.S.-Russian agreement does not solve the crisis, but delays and deepens it. Obama's almost nonchalant "red line" statement of a year ago was the obscure mistake that could precipitate the great foreign-policy fiasco of his presidency.

.
.




This "Daniel Pipe" is an enemy agent on the mission to destroy our beloved America .. am really puzzled
why he not in jail


With all due respect, Huxley, in your expert opinion, you think you should listen to this POS "Daniel Pipe" .. or .. to Both former Pentagon chiefs, Robert M. Gates and Leon E. Panetta ? ? ? :D


Which one you consider a real American patriot .. Both former Pentagon chiefs, Robert M. Gates and Leon E. Panetta .. or Zionist agent Daniel Pipe ? ?

Both former Pentagon chiefs, Robert M. Gates and Leon E. Panetta say "dont touch Syria even with 10 foot pole"

but

AIPAC, and all Zionist agents, and that clown McCain know better, recommending to attack Syria




.
Thank You Very Much for your post, Azari.
This "Daniel Pipe" is an enemy agent on the mission to destroy our beloved America .. am really puzzled
why he not in jail
Naw.....

What can Pipes do except express his opinion...........

The person I would suspect of being an enemy agent on a mission to destroy America with the power to do so is Obama except that Obama is such an Arrogant, Bloviating, Careless, Duty Station Deserting, Egotistical, Fatuous, Gag Needing, Hypocritical, Incompetent except at Electioneering, Jerk, Klown, Lazy, Lying, Mouthy, Narcissistic Son of a Bitch Eater that this latest fiasco of his may have started as a mistake rather than a being a calculated act to diminish America............ Though I may be wrong about that............

Note Pipes' closing line:
Obama's almost nonchalant "red line" statement of a year ago was the obscure mistake that could precipitate the great foreign-policy fiasco of his presidency.
Obama would have done better to use Michelle's lipstick :twisted: to put that red line ;) around his Arrogant Hypocritical Sanctimonious mouth...

Here's hoping Obama resigns so that with Biden we would have a President we could impeach without being called racists......... ;) :twisted: :lol:

Or that Michelle puts a ball gag in Obama's mouth during press conferences.......... ;) :twisted:

Just use the Teleprompter ;) for the opening remarks and have Obama the Twit tweet ;) his answers to questions instead of bloviating like he loves to do to run the clock out.........
For the love of G_d, consider you & I may be mistaken.
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: The Syria Thread

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

a8aubUmCTh0
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Hans Bulvai
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Re: The Syria Thread

Post by Hans Bulvai »

Heracleum Persicum wrote:.



US-backed militants behead 2 Christians including priest in Homs



NasDEoj-pcg
alCsFKyAZR8




.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 10092.html

As I said, KGB agent.
But the most radical emir in the north has been Abu al-Banat, a former Russian officer from the Caucasus republic of Dagestan who converted to Islam and has gathered disciple-like supporters since then. Although he speaks only broken Arabic, he summarily declared al-Nusra and the other jihadists groups to be "kafirs," or infidels, because they refused to submit to his command.

In the spring, the self-proclaimed emir from Atmeh went with his supporters to the village of Mashad Ruhin, nine kilometers away, which he then sealed off with armed guards and transformed into his personal emirate.

Al-Banat had three men beheaded in the village square in April. In a video of the brutal execution, which appeared online in the summer, an unkempt man surrounded by a gawking crowd, including children, speaks into the camera in broken Arabic. The man is Abu al-Banat. Three bound men cower on the ground next to him. An assistant slowly cuts off the head of one of the men and then proceeds to the second man. Then he holds the severed head up to the camera like a trophy.

Oddly enough, the recently published video appeared first on Syria Tube. The PR site for the Syrian regime claimed that the beheading victims were three Christian priests who had been killed in late June in the town of Rassania. The story was promptly disseminated by the Catholic news agency Agenzia Fides, which has a history of broadcasting made-up horror stories.




What the video actually depicts is the murder of alleged Assad loyalists in al-Banat's camp in April, although who the three men were and what offences they committed remains unclear. As a former member of his group recalls, al-Banat "was both judge and accuser in one." The villagers were horrified, says a man from a nearby town. "No matter what the three men did, people aren't lambs to be slaughtered." The executions triggered an exodus, with only about 70 supporters remaining behind.
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Wake up motherfucker
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Nastarana
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Re: Has journalism gone all psychopathic?

Post by Nastarana »

Parodite wrote:
Not because of HPs link to this particular analysis, but as an illustration of how the media in general report on this conflict, on any conflict included political rivalry between say democrats and republicans in the US.

Most analyses focus on the aspect of power distribution, power games, power (geo-)politics. It seems to me like a certain lens through which the world is perceived and reported on; the lens of a psychopath. He observes patterns, reads power structures, counts dead and wounded, logs the wins and losses without emotion. And always calculates. As if it were a configuration on a chess board, pieces that fall off the playing board are merely taken into account.

The journalist has adopted the calculating psycho pathological mindset of the players that move around their pieces in power combat. In fact, they do those players a big service providing them with those analyses for free in the media; it helps them to calculate the next move or influence how the opponent reads the map. Not too long ago Putin showed he understands this: tell people who belong to your opponent's camp what their leader's next move ought to be in their own interest.
The best quick and dirty explanation and summation of what has happened in the USA, the transformation from democratic republic to predatory oligarchy can be found here:

http://www.themoneyparty.org/main/the-m ... l-collins/

The 1 %, or corporatocracy, or Money Party rely on sociopaths to implement their policies. We saw an example of this in mocrocosm in the Martin/Zimmerman affair. Persons of some talent and achievement with selfish tendencies are sought out, recruited and groomed for service to the Anglo-American global elite. Money, sex (see Confessions of an Economic Hitman), influence are among the inducements offered.

As for whether American citizens can "take our country back", I consider the prognosis for that doubtful at best, although the attempt must be made, nor are immigrant communities any help at all.
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: Has journalism gone all psychopathic?

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

Nastarana wrote:
Parodite wrote:
Not because of HPs link to this particular analysis, but as an illustration of how the media in general report on this conflict, on any conflict included political rivalry between say democrats and republicans in the US.

Most analyses focus on the aspect of power distribution, power games, power (geo-)politics. It seems to me like a certain lens through which the world is perceived and reported on; the lens of a psychopath. He observes patterns, reads power structures, counts dead and wounded, logs the wins and losses without emotion. And always calculates. As if it were a configuration on a chess board, pieces that fall off the playing board are merely taken into account.

The journalist has adopted the calculating psycho pathological mindset of the players that move around their pieces in power combat. In fact, they do those players a big service providing them with those analyses for free in the media; it helps them to calculate the next move or influence how the opponent reads the map. Not too long ago Putin showed he understands this: tell people who belong to your opponent's camp what their leader's next move ought to be in their own interest.
The best quick and dirty explanation and summation of what has happened in the USA, the transformation from democratic republic to predatory oligarchy can be found here:

http://www.themoneyparty.org/main/the-m ... l-collins/

The 1 %, or corporatocracy, or Money Party rely on sociopaths to implement their policies. We saw an example of this in mocrocosm in the Martin/Zimmerman affair. Persons of some talent and achievement with selfish tendencies are sought out, recruited and groomed for service to the Anglo-American global elite. Money, sex (see Confessions of an Economic Hitman), influence are among the inducements offered.

As for whether American citizens can "take our country back", I consider the prognosis for that doubtful at best, although the attempt must be made, nor are immigrant communities any help at all.


.



Hmmm

One of the most meaningful post have read on this fora, quite my "cup of tea"


Yes, true, Nastaran, you hit the nail on the head .. things exactly as you say

Question only is, what to do about it

Any idea ? ?



.
Nastarana
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Re: The Syria Thread

Post by Nastarana »

Heracleum, I wish I knew. We are at the point right now where simply not lying, ever, and doing good work, always, are in themselves revolutionary acts.
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Re: Has journalism gone all psychopathic?

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Nastarana wrote: http://www.themoneyparty.org/main/the-m ... l-collins/

The 1 %, or corporatocracy, or Money Party rely on sociopaths to implement their policies. We saw an example of this in mocrocosm in the Martin/Zimmerman affair.
Have you lost your mind.
Persons of some talent and achievement with selfish tendencies are sought out, recruited and groomed for service to the Anglo-American global elite. Money, sex (see Confessions of an Economic Hitman), influence are among the inducements offered.

As for whether American citizens can "take our country back", I consider the prognosis for that doubtful at best, although the attempt must be made, nor are immigrant communities any help at all.
What was the whole obama thing then.
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Hans Bulvai
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Re: The Syria Thread

Post by Hans Bulvai »

http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 26479.html
'Sex Jihad' and Other Lies: Assad's Elaborate Disinformation Campaign


Sex sells. And al-Qaida is eager to grab attention. But the combination of the two -- sex jihad -- is simply irresistible. Scores of young women are reportedly offering themselves to jihadists, according to one of the latest horror news stories coming out of Syria. A sheik from Saudi Arabia has allegedly issued a fatwa that allows teenage girls to provide relief to sexually frustrated fighters.


In late September, 16-year-old Rawan Qadah appeared on Syrian TV and gave a detailed account of how she had to sexually satisfy a radical insurgent. After the Tunisian interior minister stated that young women from his country were traveling to Syria for sex jihad -- and having sex with 20, 30 and even up to 100 rebels -- the story started to make headlines in Germany, as well. In Germany, the websites of the mass circulation Bild newspaper and Focus magazine have titillated readers with articles about this supposed "bizarre practice."

In the wake of the poison gas massacre on Aug. 21, the regime in Damascus has launched a major PR offensive. Beyond the official line of propaganda, though, there is a second campaign: a secret and elaborately staged effort to sow doubt and confusion -- and divert attention away from the Syrian government's own crimes. Like many of these bogus news stories, the sex jihad tales aim to convince supporters at home and critics abroad of the rebels' monstrous depravity.

No other leader in the region -- not Saddam Hussein in Iraq, nor Moammar Gadhafi in Libya -- has relied as heavily on propaganda as Assad. His PR teams and state media are churning out a steady stream of partially or completely fabricated new stories about acts of terror against Christians, al-Qaeda's rise to power and the imminent destabilization of the entire region. These stories are circulated by Russian and Iranian broadcasters, as well as Christian networks, and are eventually picked up by Western media.

One prime example is the legend of orgies with terrorists: The 16-year-old presented on state TV comes from a prominent oppositional family in Daraa. When the regime failed to capture her father, she was abducted by security forces on her way home from school in November 2012. During the same TV program, a second woman confessed that she had submitted to group sex with the fanatical Al-Nusra Front. According to her family, though, she was arrested at the University of Damascus while protesting against Assad. Both young women are still missing. Their families say that they were forced to make the televised statements -- and that the allegation of sex jihad is a lie.

An alleged Tunisian sex jihadist also dismissed the stories when she was contacted by Arab media: "All lies!", she said. She admitted that she had been to Syria, but as a nurse. She says she is married and has since fled to Jordan.

Two human rights organizations have been trying to substantiate the sex jihad stories, but have so far come up empty-handed. It appears that the Tunisian interior minister had other motives for jumping on this rumor: Hundreds of Islamists have left his country and traveled to Syria, and he is apparently trying to stem the tide by discrediting these fighters. Furthermore, Sheikh Mohammad al-Arifi, the man who is allegedly behind the sex jihad fatwa, denies everything. "No person in their right mind would approve of such a thing," he says.

Disseminating Lies

It is difficult -- and, at times, even impossible -- to verify all the horror stories emerging from the civil war in Syria. This holds especially true when they are disseminated in a roundabout way, as is the case with most of the reports of persecuted Christians.

For example, on Sept. 26, the German Catholic news agency KNA issued a report -- citing the Vatican news agency Fides -- stating that Muslim legal scholars in the opposition stronghold Douma, near Damascus, had called for "the property of non-Muslims to be confiscated." Fides said that it had a copy of a document that was signed by 36 Muslim religious figures. Yet although this appeared to be a serious story, it turned out to be based on a forgery: a fictitious text with real signatures. It actually came from a 2011 statement calling for civilians to be spared during the fighting. On a number of occasions, Fides has accepted as true propaganda fabrications released by regime-affiliated portals, such as Syria Truth.

This also includes the myth of the beheading of a bishop -- a story also spread by Assad in an interview with SPIEGEL. The fact of the matter is that a jihadist from Dagestan killed three men in this way, but they weren't Christians. After getting the stamp of approval from the official news agency of the Vatican, such rumors generated by Assad's propaganda machine are circulated around the world as bona-fide new stories.

The facts were twisted in a similar manner when an image of a woman tied to a pillar in Aleppo appeared on the LiveLeak video portal in mid-September. The website claimed that the woman was a Christian from Aleppo who had been abducted by al-Qaida rebels. In reality, although the photo was taken in Aleppo, it dates back to a period when Assad's troops still controlled the entire city. A video of the scene, posted on YouTube on June 12, 2012, shows regime-loyal militias berating the woman.

The regime also concocted the legend of the destruction of the Christian village of Maaloula. In early September, rebels belonging to three groups, including al-Nusra, attacked two military posts on the outskirts of town held by members of the local Assad-loyal Shabiha militias. Then the rebels withdrew. But the regime's version, which even managed to become an Associated Press story, was as follows: Foreign terrorists looted and burned down churches -- and even threatened to behead Christians who refused to convert to Islam.

This didn't match with reports from the nuns of the Thekla convent in Maaloula and the Greek Orthodox patriarch of Antioch. They said that nothing had been damaged and no one had been threatened on account of their beliefs. A reporter from the satellite news network Russia Today unwittingly cleared up the confusion. While accompanying the Syrian army, he filmed the tank attack on Maaloula -- in which the local monastery was shelled.

This ongoing reinterpretation of events reflects a conscious policy -- and bending the truth is much easier now that Syria has become such a confusing and chaotic theater of war. Most news publications shy away from the risks and efforts of verifying stories on the ground. Actual events, such as when jihadists burned down a church in the northern Syrian town of Rakka, are mixed together with trumped-up atrocities staged to sway global opinion.

Even blatant inconsistencies are often accepted without question. After all, tangible evidence to the contrary rarely exists. When state-run media reported that the prominent imam Mohammed al-Buti, a supporter of Assad, was killed by a suicide bomber at his mosque in the heart of Damascus on March 21, all rebel groups denied having anything to do with the attack. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean much. But even an untrained eye would have to notice that the photos showed no signs of an explosion: Chandeliers, fans and carpets were all intact. Instead, there were bullet holes clear across a marble wall, and pools of blood apparently showed where the bodies had lain. Many of the victims were wearing shoes, which is highly unusual for Muslims in a mosque. There were also no witnesses. All of this feeds the suspicion that the victims were forced into the building and murdered -- as a backdrop for an attack that never occurred.

Pinning the Blame

After the poison gas attack in August, though, the propaganda cover-up failed. Inundated by a global wave of indignation, the regime floundered in its attempts to explain the situation. First, Assad said that nothing had happened. Then state television showed images of an alleged rebel hideout containing a barrel with the blatantly obvious label: "Made in Saudia." The TV report maintained that this was sarin gas from Saudi Arabia for "terrorists" who had inadvertently gassed themselves to death.

The source of the story was a little known news website called Mint Press, based in the northern US state of Minnesota. One of the authors later denied having anything to do with the research. The other, a young Jordanian who writes under a number of pseudonyms, merely responded to queries by saying that he was currently studying in Iran. In an online comment on an article in Britain's Daily Mail, though, he gave the following detail that was missing on Mint Press: "Some old men arrived in Damascus from Russia and one of them became friends with me. He told me that they have evidence that it was the rebels who used the (chemical) weapons." A few days later, the Russian foreign minister quoted the report from Mint Press as proof of Assad's innocence.


An entirely different explanation for the alleged gas attack by the rebels was presented to British broadcaster Sky News by Assad's top media adviser, Buthaina Shaaban: She said that terrorists had abducted 300 Alawite children from Latakia, taken them to Damascus and murdered them so they could be presented to the world as victims.

And now comes a new line of defense that neither relies on chemicals nor argues that the rebels killed themselves: In a SPIEGEL interview, Assad states that sarin is a "kitchen gas" because "it can be made anywhere." But this flies in the face of a United Nations report, which states that rockets carrying sarin gas could only have come from a military base run by government forces.

Although Assad likes to cover up his crimes with a crisis-driven media blitz, he actually prefers to meet with the press and directly tell his side of the story. This includes presenting his regime as a final bulwark against global terror, even though he has his agents carry out the very kinds of attacks he is warning the world about and attributing to his rivals. For example, police in Turkey and Lebanon have charged the Syrian intelligence agency with responsibility for the most devastating attacks in years. After two bombs in Tripoli killed 47 people on Aug. 23, a Lebanese court issued an arrest warrant against two Syrians -- for planning acts of terrorism.
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Endovelico
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Re: The Syria Thread

Post by Endovelico »

Confessions Of A Syrian Activist: “I Want Assad To Win”
Mike Giglio - BuzzFeed Staff

ANTAKYA, Turkey — The activist threw himself into Syria’s revolution from its early days. He organized protests, documented the deadly crackdowns and disseminated the news, risking his life. When the opposition took up arms, he worked closely with rebel groups, helping to spread their message of resistance and taking toll of the war’s carnage in places journalists couldn’t reach. He has won widespread recognition for his work, and he remains deeply involved in the struggle today — though he no longer calls it a revolution. In fact, he thinks it needs to end.

The activist works under his real name, but he requested anonymity to give the candid assessment of the conflict laid out in these remarks, which are compiled from a recent in-depth interview. Asked to speak on the record, he deliberated with friends and colleagues and ultimately declined. He says he fears a backlash: His words could be used to undermine his work, or he could be misunderstood. He also cites safety concerns. But he believes that his message, unpopular among his revolutionary colleagues, is one they need to hear — that their revolution has ended; that a dangerous wave of Islamic extremism has welled up in its place; that they should work to stop the fighting now; and that if they can’t, they should hope it’s Syrian President Bashar al-Assad who wins.

“To simply say I want Assad to win would be a disaster if anyone heard it,” the activist says. “But we’ve created a monster. For too long on the ground, there was too much focus on the crimes the regime was committing and not enough on our own problems. And addressing these problems was always being delayed.

“So we knew there was some sort of Islamism in the fighting even when it was starting back in 2012 and we would ignore this, because we would say it would all end soon — Assad is going to fall in two weeks; Assad is going to fall in a month; Assad’s going to fall in Aleppo. At each moment, we thought it was going to end very soon, and that meant we were neglecting the mistakes that were being made [among the revolution]. We were thinking, OK, the regime’s going to fall, and we can solve this later. We just need to get rid of Assad. This was a big mistake.

“To that extent, we’ve created ISIS [the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, a powerful al-Qaeda affiliate that is gaining ground in the rebellion]. And we’ve created Jabhat al-Nusra [another Qaeda-linked group].”

The activist has little hope for a political solution — a peace conference expected in Geneva this month was delayed again this week. Even if talks moved ahead, he adds, the moderate opposition wouldn’t have much say. “We’ve reached this point where we have two powers that are recognized by the international community — the Syrian regime and the extremist groups on the ground,” he says. “The third group [the moderate opposition] is very weak, even though it’s the majority in Syria. We don’t have anyone to defend the group. We don’t have weapons. We don’t have finances. We don’t have media.

“So yes, if I’m going to choose which side I wish would win at this stage, I would choose the side that’s already in power rather than seeing the extremist side jump into power and destroy everyone else. The extremist groups do not seek a revolution in Syria — or at least, not a democratic one. They seek an Islamic one. And it’s something that’s not accepted by the majority of the country, whether you support Assad or you don’t. I would prefer that Assad wins at a stage like this for one reason: all of the other alternatives are totally unacceptable.

“I would not cheer the idea of Assad winning. I would not help in any way,” the activist says, adding that he’d keep up his fight against the government. “But I will accept it.

“I have no guarantees to offer in government-controlled areas that if those areas are ‘liberated,’ we can keep you safe. That it will not be ISIS and Jabhat al-Nusra in charge, and that you won’t live under their laws. If I could make that guarantee, then I would support the idea of bringing down the regime without a political solution.”

The Islamic extremists threatening to overtake the rebellion, the activist says, pose more of a threat than Assad. “There is no language between civil society and Islamic authority in Syria right now,” he says. “There’s no dialogue. It’s unacceptable.

“In the same way that if you say anything about Assad you’re doomed, if you say anything about God, you’re also doomed. It’s the same way of reacting, but the Islamic system is a much more lethal system, because it depends on an ideology that says, ‘God, who is the creator of the universe, says that we’re in charge. And if you stand against that, then you stand against the creator of the universe. And we will chop your heads off, chop your hands off. We will whip you. We will prevent you from speaking out.’ I think the ability of this Islamic authority and these extremist groups to abuse the citizens of Syria is much higher than that of the Syrian regime.

“A lot of people would argue that, if the regime wins, there would be no space whatsoever for another revolution, because the regime would come back 10 times stronger. The majority of people say that. I think that’s total nonsense.”

The activist says that the moderate opposition is much more capable of resisting Assad than it was before the revolution, when political life was stifled and activists worked in the shadows, often unknown even to each other. “What we have in Syria now is local councils,” the activist says, referring to the civilian administrative groups that have sprouted up in rebel-held territory across the country, “and political and activist groups, whereas before March 2011 we had nothing. It was just a few people that were anonymous online.

“We have groups now. We have experience. We know how to perform demonstrations now. We know how to have contact with the media. We know how to provide aid and how to set up field hospitals. It’s a totally different situation now. And we learned from our mistakes.

“I think it’s definitely possible to see a revolution in the future. But if we don’t accept that we have lost now—that our revolution has stopped, or been put on pause, and that is a big dispute among activists—then that means that everything that’s happening now, and all the crimes that are being committed by Jabhat al-Nusra and ISIS, will be written in history as part of the Syrian revolution. Do you see what I mean? If we can differentiate between this period that was the Syrian revolution, and this period now that is a messy situation that came as a result of a dictator standing against a revolution, then I think we can keep our revolution clean and our aspirations clean and our ideals in place. But if we keep going down this line, then we will turn our revolution into an Islamic revolution, and I think this will be known in history as the Islamic revolution in Syria.

“I’m not going to be able to say things like this publicly—because it would be misunderstood and misinterpreted, in a very messy situation in Syria where now it’s easy for you to be accused of being an agent for the West or an agent for the government. It’s very easy for people to point fingers and accuse you of working against the Syrian revolution. I worry about being misinterpreted or misunderstood and not being able to remain a player on Syria. I’m involved, and I have some sort of effect. I want to continue to be able to do that.

“It’s really about being responsible and saying, ‘OK, 100,000 people have been killed. Do we want another 100,000 to be killed?’ Maybe another 100,000 would be killed anyway. But do we want them to die for the exact reason that we were stubborn? And that’s the question.”

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mikegiglio/conf ... sad-to-win
An opinion worth taking into account. Syrians are not Afghans, most of them know what is good for them.
Ibrahim
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Re: The Syria Thread

Post by Ibrahim »

Endovelico wrote:
Confessions Of A Syrian Activist: “I Want Assad To Win”
Mike Giglio - BuzzFeed Staff

ANTAKYA, Turkey — The activist threw himself into Syria’s revolution from its early days. He organized protests, documented the deadly crackdowns and disseminated the news, risking his life. When the opposition took up arms, he worked closely with rebel groups, helping to spread their message of resistance and taking toll of the war’s carnage in places journalists couldn’t reach. He has won widespread recognition for his work, and he remains deeply involved in the struggle today — though he no longer calls it a revolution. In fact, he thinks it needs to end.

The activist works under his real name, but he requested anonymity to give the candid assessment of the conflict laid out in these remarks, which are compiled from a recent in-depth interview. Asked to speak on the record, he deliberated with friends and colleagues and ultimately declined. He says he fears a backlash: His words could be used to undermine his work, or he could be misunderstood. He also cites safety concerns. But he believes that his message, unpopular among his revolutionary colleagues, is one they need to hear — that their revolution has ended; that a dangerous wave of Islamic extremism has welled up in its place; that they should work to stop the fighting now; and that if they can’t, they should hope it’s Syrian President Bashar al-Assad who wins.

“To simply say I want Assad to win would be a disaster if anyone heard it,” the activist says. “But we’ve created a monster. For too long on the ground, there was too much focus on the crimes the regime was committing and not enough on our own problems. And addressing these problems was always being delayed.

“So we knew there was some sort of Islamism in the fighting even when it was starting back in 2012 and we would ignore this, because we would say it would all end soon — Assad is going to fall in two weeks; Assad is going to fall in a month; Assad’s going to fall in Aleppo. At each moment, we thought it was going to end very soon, and that meant we were neglecting the mistakes that were being made [among the revolution]. We were thinking, OK, the regime’s going to fall, and we can solve this later. We just need to get rid of Assad. This was a big mistake.

“To that extent, we’ve created ISIS [the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, a powerful al-Qaeda affiliate that is gaining ground in the rebellion]. And we’ve created Jabhat al-Nusra [another Qaeda-linked group].”

The activist has little hope for a political solution — a peace conference expected in Geneva this month was delayed again this week. Even if talks moved ahead, he adds, the moderate opposition wouldn’t have much say. “We’ve reached this point where we have two powers that are recognized by the international community — the Syrian regime and the extremist groups on the ground,” he says. “The third group [the moderate opposition] is very weak, even though it’s the majority in Syria. We don’t have anyone to defend the group. We don’t have weapons. We don’t have finances. We don’t have media.

“So yes, if I’m going to choose which side I wish would win at this stage, I would choose the side that’s already in power rather than seeing the extremist side jump into power and destroy everyone else. The extremist groups do not seek a revolution in Syria — or at least, not a democratic one. They seek an Islamic one. And it’s something that’s not accepted by the majority of the country, whether you support Assad or you don’t. I would prefer that Assad wins at a stage like this for one reason: all of the other alternatives are totally unacceptable.

“I would not cheer the idea of Assad winning. I would not help in any way,” the activist says, adding that he’d keep up his fight against the government. “But I will accept it.

“I have no guarantees to offer in government-controlled areas that if those areas are ‘liberated,’ we can keep you safe. That it will not be ISIS and Jabhat al-Nusra in charge, and that you won’t live under their laws. If I could make that guarantee, then I would support the idea of bringing down the regime without a political solution.”

The Islamic extremists threatening to overtake the rebellion, the activist says, pose more of a threat than Assad. “There is no language between civil society and Islamic authority in Syria right now,” he says. “There’s no dialogue. It’s unacceptable.

“In the same way that if you say anything about Assad you’re doomed, if you say anything about God, you’re also doomed. It’s the same way of reacting, but the Islamic system is a much more lethal system, because it depends on an ideology that says, ‘God, who is the creator of the universe, says that we’re in charge. And if you stand against that, then you stand against the creator of the universe. And we will chop your heads off, chop your hands off. We will whip you. We will prevent you from speaking out.’ I think the ability of this Islamic authority and these extremist groups to abuse the citizens of Syria is much higher than that of the Syrian regime.

“A lot of people would argue that, if the regime wins, there would be no space whatsoever for another revolution, because the regime would come back 10 times stronger. The majority of people say that. I think that’s total nonsense.”

The activist says that the moderate opposition is much more capable of resisting Assad than it was before the revolution, when political life was stifled and activists worked in the shadows, often unknown even to each other. “What we have in Syria now is local councils,” the activist says, referring to the civilian administrative groups that have sprouted up in rebel-held territory across the country, “and political and activist groups, whereas before March 2011 we had nothing. It was just a few people that were anonymous online.

“We have groups now. We have experience. We know how to perform demonstrations now. We know how to have contact with the media. We know how to provide aid and how to set up field hospitals. It’s a totally different situation now. And we learned from our mistakes.

“I think it’s definitely possible to see a revolution in the future. But if we don’t accept that we have lost now—that our revolution has stopped, or been put on pause, and that is a big dispute among activists—then that means that everything that’s happening now, and all the crimes that are being committed by Jabhat al-Nusra and ISIS, will be written in history as part of the Syrian revolution. Do you see what I mean? If we can differentiate between this period that was the Syrian revolution, and this period now that is a messy situation that came as a result of a dictator standing against a revolution, then I think we can keep our revolution clean and our aspirations clean and our ideals in place. But if we keep going down this line, then we will turn our revolution into an Islamic revolution, and I think this will be known in history as the Islamic revolution in Syria.

“I’m not going to be able to say things like this publicly—because it would be misunderstood and misinterpreted, in a very messy situation in Syria where now it’s easy for you to be accused of being an agent for the West or an agent for the government. It’s very easy for people to point fingers and accuse you of working against the Syrian revolution. I worry about being misinterpreted or misunderstood and not being able to remain a player on Syria. I’m involved, and I have some sort of effect. I want to continue to be able to do that.

“It’s really about being responsible and saying, ‘OK, 100,000 people have been killed. Do we want another 100,000 to be killed?’ Maybe another 100,000 would be killed anyway. But do we want them to die for the exact reason that we were stubborn? And that’s the question.”

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mikegiglio/conf ... sad-to-win
An opinion worth taking into account. Syrians are not Afghans, most of them know what is good for them.
You need to unpack this comment a little bit. It isn't coherent as it stands.


Couple of thoughts here. 1. Obviously Assad supporters want him to win because they fear reprisals. 2. Assad opponents/victims don't want him to win because they fear reprisals. 3. Buzzfeed is my favorate Koch-owned corporatist media outlet. 4. Generalizing about "Syrians" or "Afghans" or anybody based on one opinion or point of view is deeply flawed. 5. Are you pro-Assad now too?
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Endovelico
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Re: The Syria Thread

Post by Endovelico »

Ibrahim wrote:Are you pro-Assad now too?
I'm anti-the most obvious alternatives. And so it seems are many who would rather see Assad go. Restraining Assad's misuse of power would be a lot better than giving power to the usual islamic fanatics...
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Re: The Syria Thread

Post by Ibrahim »

Endovelico wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:Are you pro-Assad now too?
I'm anti-the most obvious alternatives. And so it seems are many who would rather see Assad go. Restraining Assad's misuse of power would be a lot better than giving power to the usual islamic fanatics...
So your argument is that a known mass-murdering dictator is better than an unknown, provided that the unknown is brown and religious. How did I know this was coming? Its like you've decided to parody yourself.
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Re: The Syria Thread

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Ibrahim wrote:
Endovelico wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:Are you pro-Assad now too?
I'm anti-the most obvious alternatives. And so it seems are many who would rather see Assad go. Restraining Assad's misuse of power would be a lot better than giving power to the usual islamic fanatics...
So your argument is that a known mass-murdering dictator is better than an unknown, provided that the unknown is brown and religious. How did I know this was coming? Its like you've decided to parody yourself.
As a "murderous dictator" Assad would be less extreme than some who are fighting him. Any sensible person would prefer him to the likely alternatives, especially if his "murderous dictatorial" instincts could be held in check...

BTW I find strange your reference to skin colour ("brown") when trying to refute my positions. Have I ever made any distinction between people on the basis of skin colour?
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Re: The Syria Thread

Post by Ibrahim »

Endovelico wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:
Endovelico wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:Are you pro-Assad now too?
I'm anti-the most obvious alternatives. And so it seems are many who would rather see Assad go. Restraining Assad's misuse of power would be a lot better than giving power to the usual islamic fanatics...
So your argument is that a known mass-murdering dictator is better than an unknown, provided that the unknown is brown and religious. How did I know this was coming? Its like you've decided to parody yourself.
As a "murderous dictator" Assad would be less extreme than some who are fighting him.
Do you have any evidence to support this claim beyond your own prejudices? Because Assad has used chemical weapons, artillery, and air strikes on civilian neighborhoods


Any sensible person would prefer him to the likely alternatives, especially if his "murderous dictatorial" instincts could be held in check...
Any sensible person doesn't support known mass-murdering dictators over unknown alternatives.


BTW I find strange your reference to skin colour ("brown") when trying to refute my positions. Have I ever made any distinction between people on the basis of skin colour?
You only ever support that mass-murder of civilians by armed forces if they have brown skin and/or are Muslims. Your policy recommendations towards Europeans and North Americans - while usually unrealistic - are never as murderous and immoral.
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Re: The Syria Thread

Post by Ibrahim »

http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/i ... JZ20131113

Syrian Kurds make fresh military gains after declaring self-rule
By Erika Solomon

BEIRUT (Reuters) - Kurdish militias seized another seven villages in northeastern Syria, activists said on Wednesday, a day after the fighters' political wing announced an interim administration that aims to carve out an autonomous Syrian Kurdish region.

Kurds, often described as the world's largest stateless ethnic group, number about 30 million, concentrated in parts of Turkey, Iran, Syria and Iraq. While they have had partial autonomy in Iraqi Kurdistan since 1991, nationalist movements have long been suppressed in Turkey, Syria and Iran.

In the chaos of Syria's 2-1/2 year civil war, Kurds there have captured most Kurdish-dominated cities. They have made major territorial gains in recent weeks, driving out the mostly Arab Islamist rebel units in their areas and paving the way for their long-declared plans for independent governance.

Westerners tend to like Kurds, so I wonder if Endo wants his buddy Assad to gas and bomb these guys as well.
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Re: The Syria Thread

Post by Endovelico »

Ibrahim wrote:You only ever support that mass-murder of civilians by armed forces if they have brown skin and/or are Muslims. Your policy recommendations towards Europeans and North Americans - while usually unrealistic - are never as murderous and immoral.
For your information Syrians tend to be just as "brown" as Portuguese. I wouldn't know the difference. Besides, having two (real) "brown" children of my own, it would be kind of stupid to discriminate against people based on their skin colour, don't you think?... But then, of course, you don't do much thinking, do you?...
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Re: The Syria Thread

Post by Ibrahim »

Endovelico wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:You only ever support that mass-murder of civilians by armed forces if they have brown skin and/or are Muslims. Your policy recommendations towards Europeans and North Americans - while usually unrealistic - are never as murderous and immoral.
For your information Syrians tend to be just as "brown" as Portuguese. I wouldn't know the difference.
Review highlighted portion above.


But I'm open to alternative theories. Why do you think you advocate, support or defend military violence against civilians in every single instance outside of Christian/post-Christian Europe?
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Re: The Syria Thread

Post by noddy »

endo has advocated violence against germanics,anglo's and other northern europeans many times.

so this is patently unfair, he is completely unrascist in his dislike for anything but latino flavoured radical socialism that follows his brand of anarcho communist thinking.
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Re: The Syria Thread

Post by Ibrahim »

noddy wrote:endo has advocated violence against germanics,anglo's and other northern europeans many times.

so this is patently unfair, he is completely unrascist in his dislike for anything but latino flavoured radical socialism that follows his brand of anarcho communist thinking.
I know he's critical of Germans and Northern Europe. If he's ever agitated for them to be killed in large numbers by some military force (possibly their own) then I cheerfully withdraw my comments from the previous two posts.
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Re: The Syria Thread

Post by Endovelico »

noddy wrote:endo has advocated violence against germanics,anglo's and other northern europeans many times.

so this is patently unfair, he is completely unrascist in his dislike for anything but latino flavoured radical socialism that follows his brand of anarcho communist thinking.
Yeah! Man! We latinos are superior!...

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Frankly the Latinos Saved Western Europe from the Islamics

Post by monster_gardener »

Endovelico wrote:
noddy wrote:endo has advocated violence against germanics,anglo's and other northern europeans many times.

so this is patently unfair, he is completely unrascist in his dislike for anything but latino flavoured radical socialism that follows his brand of anarcho communist thinking.
Yeah! Man! We latinos are superior!...

Image
Thank You VERY Much for your post, Endovelico.

Frankly ;) I have to tip the hat;/sombrero to the Latinos, Franks, Iberians & the Pope, for turning back the Islamic tide that was threatening to engulf Western Europe.

Tours, the Reconquista, Lepanto.........


Also tipping the hat/busby to Jan Sobieski, King of Poland, and the Polish Hussars who saved Central & Eastern Europe from the Turks at the Gates of Vienna on September 11 :twisted: 1683.......

Something that so grated on the Jihadi Jerks that they scheduled the attacks on Washington and NYC to try to erase the bitter memory....
For the love of G_d, consider you & I may be mistaken.
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Re: The Syria Thread

Post by noddy »

Endovelico wrote:
noddy wrote:endo has advocated violence against germanics,anglo's and other northern europeans many times.

so this is patently unfair, he is completely unrascist in his dislike for anything but latino flavoured radical socialism that follows his brand of anarcho communist thinking.
Yeah! Man! We latinos are superior!...

Image

then they move to australia

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