Syria

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Hans Bulvai
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Re: The Syria Thread

Post by Hans Bulvai »

Parodite wrote:
Hans Bulvai wrote:Azari is much more level headed on that subject than you are Raphsody. He at least wishes Rhubarb well. More than I can say for you showing any kind of nonbias towards the indigini.
When did you ever condemn Israeli violence against Palestinians? Or is it that the Mooslime Ayrabs are always in the wrong and Israel always the victim?
IF it wasn't for that blind non-sensible support, maybe a solution would have been found by now. To deny the negative influence the West has had in fueling this conflict or that Israel can, even just a little bit, be in the wrong makes it hard for people to believe YOU.
You are entitled to your opinions about Azari, so am I. I think he writes dearreah drivel 99% of the time, even though I like him. I do think he is a good guy. Not able to hurt a fly if you ask me.

As for me not saying anything negative about Israel, or showing understanding/support for the indigini. Well I have on occasion in the past written about the Israeli-Pal conflict. Included my criticisms on Israeli politics. Never read any more sensible and fair minded posts than those that I wrote myself. ;) It is very easy and cheap to criticize and portray one side as the evil culprit and the other responding as a victim. I explicitly said already, a couple of times on the previous forums, that I don't blame either side really. It is easy to condemn the disproprtional attacks of Israel in Gaza and Lebanon, as it is to condemn blowing up buses and restaurants. That whole game tires me incredibly.

On Spenglerboard I often critcised Israeli politics, notably the civil settlements of Westbank and Gaza after the 1967 war. I also often explained how I see the tragic role of "the international community" that only prolonges the conflict needlessly in my opinion. I also often stood up against the endless charges of anti-Semitism against people who critcized Israeli politics. I supported Uche against Pastanetas very impolite charges at him personally and blacks in general, for which he thanked me more than once.

As in the case of the Jewish Rabbi sucking the blood of a circumcised baby dick: it would be nice if people first ask somebody's actual opinion, what they think and feel about it, before they plea guilty simply because they haven't said anything about it, maybe yet.
Fair enough Rhapsody. I apologize if I misjudged.

As for the Rabbi, had it been an Imam, no one would have needed to ask your opinion. You would have given it voluntarily, no? But, you are right. So what do you think about it? And yes, we should move it to a different thread.
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Re: The Syria Thread

Post by Parodite »

Hans Bulvai wrote:Fair enough Rhapsody. I apologize if I misjudged.
Accepted, well not needed but thanks.
As for the Rabbi, had it been an Imam, no one would have needed to ask your opinion. You would have given it voluntarily, no?
Not really. What confuses some here probably, is that Ibrowitz drags me into his obsessive agressive reactions which makes it appear I am kind of obsessed with Islam. Not true at all: I just don't like any asshole spit me in the face with presumptuous accusations and then using quasi coherent lines of reasoning to "prove" his point, no matter if/how I explain myself in defence which he will always turn around pretending it to be a cover-up of my racist bigotry against the darkies, or, in some Houdini way that he never explains in detail "I proved his point".

Without the types of Ibrahim, Azari (a mix between Charleston and Waxwing) , Pastaneta et-al who are the obsessive, agressive passive-agressive ones on these issues, I'd cetainly on occasion say something about Islam, Israel, the middle east. But most has been said already, so it's kind of a rehearsel.

In daily life, in this is not lie, I have no issues with Muslims. The vast majority of 2nd-3rd generation Muslims here are very well integrated and educated. I don't care about skin color or somebody's faith in principle. I work everyday with a Muslim and a Hindu in my team. The three of us go out for lunch every friday, always loads of fun! We are good buddies. Nothing there. Another collegue and Muslim is one of the nicest guys I know. We do a high five sometimes, its all cool and friendly. My relationships in life are with individuals, human beings... Groups and their identity don't do me much; they are abstractions. Which is also the reason why people to whom the group or group-identity is very important, I always distrust. No good feeling. If Dutch bible-belters would send death threats to cartoonists depicting Jesus as a dog and where you sense they mean it, I would be equally appalled and react in same way. My redline is physical violence. I hate it.

I have a problem with the mentality of some people, of cultures that tend to engage in us-vs-them beliefsystems and/or ideology.

Okay move threadpart to elsewhere.
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Re: The Syria Thread

Post by Ibrahim »

Why, I've even had one in my house!
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the "one" in your house to which you refer? Re: The Syria Th

Post by monster_gardener »

Ibrahim wrote:Why, I've even had one in my house!
Thank you Very Much for your post, Ibrahim but............

What is the "one" in your house to which you refer?
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Re: the "one" in your house to which you refer? Re: The Syri

Post by Hoosiernorm »

monster_gardener wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:Why, I've even had one in my house!
Thank you Very Much for your post, Ibrahim but............

What is the "one" in your house to which you refer?
He is pointing out the hypocrisy of some of the things folks say that really is foolish. When people are trying to weasel out of a situation and try to not appear as bigots they will say patently foolish things in response to patently foolish questions. The typical one is usually "Why some of my closest friends are Negroes". Which is an attempt to appear that they themselves are magnanimous about multi racial relations. Ibrahims post of "Why, I've even had one in my house" is probably a better example of anti bias really not working very well and actually proving that the person who would say such a thing is probably either biased toward a group of people or at least uncomfortable or unfamiliar with how to address the topic of race and ethnicity. It's just one of the little reminders we have that we really aren't that comfortable with the topic and we usually fail when attempting to do so.
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Re: The Syria Thread

Post by Hoosiernorm »

Russian Anti-Terror Troops Arrive in Syria

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/russian-a ... 2iTkSJsL5z
A Russian military unit has arrived in Syria, according to Russian news reports, a development that a United Nations Security Council source told ABC News was "a bomb" certain to have serious repercussions.

Russia, one of President Bashar al-Assad's strongest allies despite international condemnation of the government's violent crackdown on the country's uprising, has repeatedly blocked the United Nations Security Council's attempts to halt the violence, accusing the U.S. and its allies of trying to start another war.

Now the Russian Black Sea fleet's Iman tanker has arrived in the Syrian port of Tartus on the Mediterranean Sea with an anti-terror squad from the Russian Marines aboard according to the Interfax news agency. The Assad government has insisted it is fighting a terrorist insurgency. The Russian news reports did not elaborate on the Russian troops' mission in Syria or if they are expected to leave the port.
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Re: The Syria Thread

Post by AzariLoveIran »

Hoosiernorm wrote:.

Russian Anti-Terror Troops Arrive in Syria

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/russian-a ... 2iTkSJsL5z
A Russian military unit has arrived in Syria, according to Russian news reports, a development that a United Nations Security Council source told ABC News was "a bomb" certain to have serious repercussions.

Russia, one of President Bashar al-Assad's strongest allies despite international condemnation of the government's violent crackdown on the country's uprising, has repeatedly blocked the United Nations Security Council's attempts to halt the violence, accusing the U.S. and its allies of trying to start another war.

Now the Russian Black Sea fleet's Iman tanker has arrived in the Syrian port of Tartus on the Mediterranean Sea with an anti-terror squad from the Russian Marines aboard according to the Interfax news agency. The Assad government has insisted it is fighting a terrorist insurgency. The Russian news reports did not elaborate on the Russian troops' mission in Syria or if they are expected to leave the port.

.
.

West has teamed with Al Ghaida terrorist, Wahhabi and Salafi dogs, to destabilize secular faction of Middle Eastern people

will not work



.
Hoosiernorm
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Re: The Syria Thread

Post by Hoosiernorm »

AzariLoveIran wrote:
Hoosiernorm wrote:.

Russian Anti-Terror Troops Arrive in Syria

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/russian-a ... 2iTkSJsL5z
A Russian military unit has arrived in Syria, according to Russian news reports, a development that a United Nations Security Council source told ABC News was "a bomb" certain to have serious repercussions.

Russia, one of President Bashar al-Assad's strongest allies despite international condemnation of the government's violent crackdown on the country's uprising, has repeatedly blocked the United Nations Security Council's attempts to halt the violence, accusing the U.S. and its allies of trying to start another war.

Now the Russian Black Sea fleet's Iman tanker has arrived in the Syrian port of Tartus on the Mediterranean Sea with an anti-terror squad from the Russian Marines aboard according to the Interfax news agency. The Assad government has insisted it is fighting a terrorist insurgency. The Russian news reports did not elaborate on the Russian troops' mission in Syria or if they are expected to leave the port.

.
.

West has teamed with Al Ghaida terrorist, Wahhabi and Salafi dogs, to destabilize secular faction of Middle Eastern people

will not work



.

Ghaida terrorist, Wahhabi and Salafi dogs]
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Table privileges Re:the "one" in your house to which you re

Post by monster_gardener »

Hoosiernorm wrote:
monster_gardener wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:Why, I've even had one in my house!
Thank you Very Much for your post, Ibrahim but............

What is the "one" in your house to which you refer?
He is pointing out the hypocrisy of some of the things folks say that really is foolish. When people are trying to weasel out of a situation and try to not appear as bigots they will say patently foolish things in response to patently foolish questions. The typical one is usually "Why some of my closest friends are Negroes". Which is an attempt to appear that they themselves are magnanimous about multi racial relations. Ibrahims post of "Why, I've even had one in my house" is probably a better example of anti bias really not working very well and actually proving that the person who would say such a thing is probably either biased toward a group of people or at least uncomfortable or unfamiliar with how to address the topic of race and ethnicity. It's just one of the little reminders we have that we really aren't that comfortable with the topic and we usually fail when attempting to do so.
Thank you VERY much for your post and the explanation, Hoosiernorm.

Now I understand and this brings back a decades old memory of a joke from Ebony Magazine..........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebony_%28magazine%29

Back in the days of slavery or segregation, some white folks noticed that a prominent man in the neighborhood had taken a shine to a black servant woman who worked in his house. The whites confronted the man in question and he admitted that he was sleeping with the black lady but reassured the group saying "You can be sure I won't let her sit at the table with me!" ;) :shock: :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol:

More seriously this may relate to the controversy IIRC when Theodore Roosevelt invited Booker T. Washington to the White House for Dinner....

Guess Who's Coming to Dinner...... :lol:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guess_Who% ... _to_Dinner
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Re: The Syria Thread

Post by Ibrahim »

The desirability of an uprising in Syria can be debated, I guess. But the claim that the majority of those opposing the regime are "terrorists" is completely debunked and frankly ridiculous. As it was in Libya, Tunisia, Egypt, etc.

Are they more religiously conservative than their present and former dictators? Yes, but that is not especially difficult.
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Re: The Syria Thread

Post by AzariLoveIran »

Ibrahim wrote:.

The desirability of an uprising in Syria can be debated, I guess. But the claim that the majority of those opposing the regime are "terrorists" is completely debunked and frankly ridiculous. As it was in Libya, Tunisia, Egypt, etc.

Are they more religiously conservative than their present and former dictators? Yes, but that is not especially difficult.

.

Ibrahim

Overthrowing a regime, a system, by thanks, by massive aerial bombardment, by military means .. is neither legitimate nor will ever result in a legitimate take over .. Libyan take-over by Islamist is illegitimate

Shah was overthrown by year long 100% General Strike (paralyzing Shah) .. all Oil workers strike (oil export stopped), all financial sector strike (Banks, insurance, etc), all businesses (companies & Bazaar) closed down .. only electricity & phone worked, nothing else

Shah was forced to leave by passive resistance of all the people from all segments

yes, final take over was a bit bloody, but just a bit

so

In Syria

If Syrian people, like Iranian people, say, 3/4 of Syrians, do not want Assad, if so, Assad can not stay like Shah could not

meaning

Those Turkey and West and Saudi and that monkey calling himself Amir of Qatar arming and supporting are terrorist .. that is the definition of terrorism , when a small minority is violently forcing to bring change that majority does not want

hope this helps, Ibrahim


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Re: The Syria Thread

Post by Ibrahim »

AzariLoveIran wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:.

The desirability of an uprising in Syria can be debated, I guess. But the claim that the majority of those opposing the regime are "terrorists" is completely debunked and frankly ridiculous. As it was in Libya, Tunisia, Egypt, etc.

Are they more religiously conservative than their present and former dictators? Yes, but that is not especially difficult.

.

Ibrahim

Overthrowing a regime, a system, by thanks, by massive aerial bombardment, by military means .. is neither legitimate nor will ever result in a legitimate take over .. Libyan take-over by Islamist is illegitimate

1. Libya was not taken over "by Islamists."

2. Iran was taken over and continues to be ruled by Islamists.

So there are at least two problems with your claims here.
AzariLoveIran

Re: The Syria Thread

Post by AzariLoveIran »

Ibrahim wrote:.
AzariLoveIran wrote:.
Ibrahim wrote:.

The desirability of an uprising in Syria can be debated, I guess. But the claim that the majority of those opposing the regime are "terrorists" is completely debunked and frankly ridiculous. As it was in Libya, Tunisia, Egypt, etc.

Are they more religiously conservative than their present and former dictators? Yes, but that is not especially difficult.

.

Ibrahim

Overthrowing a regime, a system, by thanks, by massive aerial bombardment, by military means .. is neither legitimate nor will ever result in a legitimate take over .. Libyan take-over by Islamist is illegitimate

1. Libya was not taken over "by Islamists."

2. Iran was taken over and continues to be ruled by Islamists.

So there are at least two problems with your claims here.

.

Ayatollahs no Islamist, they not even Muslims as Ossama has repeatedly said

and

Libya was taken over by Islamist

but

Ibrahim

Islamism, nor Iran, neither Libya the issue

Issue is

People, majority of the people , overwhelming majority, like Iran, must, by civil disobedience, general strike and and and get rid of the system and regime .. like Iran got rid of Shah

Only this gives the needed legitimacy, for solid backing by the people, of what will follow

That is why west is tryin and tryin and tryin to get rid of the Ayatollahs but cant

NATO bombing, Turkish special units, CIA sabotage team, Mossad and Saudi hand in hand planting bombs and killing civilians does not lead anywhere, and is, by definition, terrorism


.
AzariLoveIran

Re: The Syria Thread

Post by AzariLoveIran »

.


A cache of emails leaked by opposition activists showed that Mrs Assad, who has three children, spent tens of thousands of pounds on jewels, furniture and a Venetian glass vase from Harrods . . . The emails from her private account make clear that she is far more than a glamorous addition to the presidential circle. She has consulted her husband on strategy and offered her loyal support without appearing to question the crackdown.


Poor lady, poor lady

why not sanction wife and daughter of Saudi and Persian Golf monkey calling themselves Amir that fly in with private B474 and spend millions on a weekend when @ the same time the princes spent million on British hookers .. that Brunai pigmy

Poor Mrs. Assad

utter rubbish

thanks G_D he cleaning up with Wahhabi & Salafi once for all

Ammen


.
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Hans Bulvai
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Re: The Syria Thread

Post by Hans Bulvai »

One day a desert rose, the next desert scorpion lavender.

Gotta love the Western media.

All these events follow the same pattern. I suggest Mrs Asad reapplies to her old job and gets out of polotics quick.
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Re: The Syria Thread

Post by AzariLoveIran »

.


:lol: "certain Arab countries which have never held elections are advising the Syrian government to respect democracy"

.
“Through chanting empty slogans of defending people’s freedom, the Americans plan to establish domination over Syria, Lebanon, Iran, and all other countries, and we should be vigilant and strong in the face of their plots,” he added.

“Today, it has become clear to everyone that the hegemons are seeking to deal a blow to Iran, Syria, and the line of resistance. And they intend to save the Zionists through chanting the slogan of advocating people’s freedom and human rights,” Ahmadinejad stated.
.

:lol: :lol:



.
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Re: The Syria Thread

Post by Carbizene »

Yeah it's great to hear Saudi Arabia speak of Democracy for Syria.. I think Syria needs 15 thousand princes as well... maybe a king as well, just to be really Democratic.. perhaps cutting off a few hands to show respect for human rights.

From todays Wash post on the make up of Syria:
l To the Sunni business community: Assad is going down, and the sooner he does, the sooner profitable business relations with the dynamic Turkish business community can resume. (The Turkish government urging Turkish businesses to send this message privately to their Syrian counterparts could be especially helpful.)

l To the various minorities, especially the Alawites: There is safety, security and a role for you in the new Syria if you break with Assad now, but this will be harder to ensure if you don’t.
amongst various militarist pieces.war war war seems the theme.

seems the neo con dog still pants even the failure of Iraq is not enough to quiet this mangey critter.
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Re: The Syria Thread

Post by Carbizene »

Syrian rebels name their brigades after historic warriors who defeated Shiites in Islam’s early schismatic battles.
yep there are no superstitions involved the war in Syria.
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Syrian Kurds not keen on Assad or the Rebels.. Best to Leave

Post by monster_gardener »

Thank you Very Much for this Thread, Azari.

Yesterday NPR had a piece on the Kurds of Syria.....
With A Dose Of Caution, Kurds Oppose Syrian Regime
FWIW

The gist was that the Kurds are not treated well by Assad, not allowed to have Syrian citizenship.....Don't get the right to vote or speak their own language like Israeli Arabs :wink: ............. Don't like Assad......... Think he is an Ass :wink:
Syria's Kurds, who make up an estimated 10 to 15 percent of the country's population and are concentrated in the northeast.

Most will tell you they're against a regime that has withheld citizenship for many Kurds, forbidden them to speak or teach in their own language, and treated them like second-class citizens. But they're not all willing to fight to bring down the Assad regime.



Some of the Kurds are unwilling to commit atrocities for Assad* and so they desert from Assad's Syrian Army.......
A man who goes by the name Abu Shiro says he was a soldier in the Syrian army for a year until he escaped to Erbil, the capital of Iraqi Kurdistan.

He says he paid bribes to stay in his barracks, rather than shoot unarmed protesters or arrest civilians and hand them to the dreaded security services.

BUT they are unwilling to join the Free Syria Army and fight Assad because the Sunni Leaders of the Free Syria Army will not guarantee rights for the Kurds.....
A growing number of Syrian soldiers have defected and joined the Free Syrian Army, leading an insurgency that seeks to topple the Assad regime.

Asked why he hasn't done this, Abu Shiro says, "It's simple. Because I'm a Kurd."

The Kurds are unsure what sort of status they might have under a new government, and therefore have been hesitant to join the fighting against the current leadership.

It's a position that infuriates many in the Syrian opposition. If you are against the Assad regime, the thinking goes, why not stay and fight, or at least stay and protest?

The reason, says Abdulhakim Bashar, who heads a Syrian Kurdish political party, is that predominantly Arab members of the Syrian opposition have refused to reassure the Kurds that they'll have it better if the current regime falls.

At Odds With The Syrian Opposition

At a recent meeting meant to unite the Syrian opposition, Kurds walked out after opposition leaders refused to promise the Kurds some special recognition in the new Syria.

"If this regime falls, and we don't have a clear program of how we'll get our rights, it could be worse than the regime itself," Bashar says.
The outsiders, US and others, are trying to pressure the Kurds to just concentrate on overthrowing Assad

BUT the Kurds fear that without guarantees, things may be worse for them after Assad than before........
Bashar says U.S. and European diplomats have been pushing the Kurds to focus on bringing down the Assad regime first, and worry about the details later
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

PLEASE! How dumb are our/US/UZ diplomats..... to think that the Kurds are that dumb! Come ON!

The Kurds have done the dirty work before and gotten betrayed before........ By the Turks and by US/Uz..........

Come ON!

Unless it's someone like Pol Pot...

You get the details first especially since given the history of the Muslim Brothers they are IMVHO within an order of magnitude of being as bad as Assad....


But the Kurds don't totally trust the international community either, says Robert Lowe of the London School of Economics, who has co-edited a book about the Kurds of Syria. They believe they were abandoned when they rose up against the Syrian regime several years ago.

"Kurds have suffered before. They had their own uprising in 2004. And they suffered very badly for this," Lowe says.

Dozens of Kurds were killed, and hundreds more fled the country.

Also worried about Turkish involvement in this mess..... Kurds and Turks are not always friends unless they are murdering Armenians :twisted: :lol:
A Mistrust Of Turkey

What's more, says Lowe, there's the question of Turkey. Turkey has been very supportive of Syrians who oppose their regime. But Turkey has for decades dealt harshly with its own Kurdish minority.

"The Kurds of Syria are very suspicious of Turkey and are very hostile to Turkish involvement," Lowe says.

Even if Turkey acts against the Syrian regime by, say, arming the Syrian opposition, the Kurds will not trust Turkey's motives or intentions, says Lowe.

So until the Kurds know more about how their friends and enemies will act, the Kurds of Syria say they will wait and see.
IMVHO the Kurds are wise........

But need to be wiser.......

Are likely to get screwed no matter what they do or don't do........ No profit in it........

Don't wait and see........

Best to do what one Kurd did with his family........ Leave for Kurdistan in Iraq where as the piece said the Kurds are doing well for themselves**
Abu Azad and his family, which includes five children, recently walked out of Syria and ended up in the Kurdistan region of northern Iraq, where the Kurds of Iraq govern an autonomous zone that's grown stronger and more prosperous since the fall of Saddam Hussein as Iraq's leader in 2003.

The trip took Abu Azad's family an entire night, crossing streams and climbing mountains. Now they share a house with dozens of other Syrian Kurdish refugees. Soon they'll be living in a tent.


*Unlike the awful atrocities the Kurds did for the Turks during the Armenian Holocaust...........

**Not necessarily for anyone else AIUI........

But a good idea in general..........

Leave and live.........

Of course if you don't have a place to go............

May have to kill to live.........

Reason set up Space Colonies..........

Each crazy nut culture can have its own hollow asteroid world if they have the tech ability to maintain it......


NOTE: Found the link........... Have inserted quotes.........

http://www.npr.org/2012/04/05/150064912 ... ian-regime
Last edited by monster_gardener on Sat Apr 07, 2012 12:40 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: The Syria Thread

Post by Ibrahim »

Carbizene wrote:
Syrian rebels name their brigades after historic warriors who defeated Shiites in Islam’s early schismatic battles.
yep there are no superstitions involved the war in Syria.
Yeah, acknowledging history. What's that about? What's next, some country naming their helicopters and missiles after Indian tribes and weapons?
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Re: The Syria Thread

Post by Carbizene »

The diference is that the UZ is not shooting at UZ tribal people and vice versa..don't know if you were aware of that.

Keep going with the ingenious apologism, it's quite enlightening to see.
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Re: The Syria Thread

Post by Ibrahim »

Carbizene wrote:The diference is that the UZ is not shooting at UZ tribal people and vice versa..don't know if you were aware of that.

Keep going with the ingenious apologism, it's quite enlightening to see.

I'm not sure if you understand what the word "apologism" means.

Anyway I've stated my support for the opposition forces in Syria from the outset. I guess you're back the Assad camp?
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Re: The Syria Thread

Post by Hoosiernorm »

http://www.jamestown.org/single/?no_cac ... 68b6dcdbed

Turkish-Syrian relations have been always problematic. Dating back to the Cold War, Syria’s support for the Kurdish militants of the Partiya Karkeren Kurdistan (PKK) was a major obstacle to efforts to normalize relations between the two countries until the 1998 Adana Accord allowed Syria and Turkey to put the past behind them and become major economic and strategic partners. The Adana agreement established joint cooperation against the PKK and relations subsequently flourished in all aspects. In 2009, the two countries signed a joint political declaration establishing a High Level Strategic Cooperation Council (HLSCC), intended to elevate relations to an even higher level (mfa.gov.tr, accessed on March 16, 2012).
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Re: The Syria Thread

Post by Carbizene »

Ibrahim wrote:
I'm not sure if you understand what the word "apologism" means.
You.
Anyway I've stated my support for the opposition forces in Syria from the outset. I guess you're back the Assad camp?
Abramites can kill each other as much they like. I know they are happy about it because they get to their Heaven sooner so everyones a winner.
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Re: The Syria Thread

Post by Ibrahim »

Carbizene wrote:
Ibrahim wrote:Anyway I've stated my support for the opposition forces in Syria from the outset. I guess you're back the Assad camp?
Abramites can kill each other as much they like. I know they are happy about it because they get to their Heaven sooner so everyones a winner.
So you just favor more killing generally, and don't care which side wins as long as more Syrians die. Ok, I think your opinions can safely be dismissed from this point on.
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