Guns in the USA | Shooting the news

[Mr. Perfect]

where are the gunphobic people here ?

out of boredom i questioned some of simple mindeds rhetoric and on queue you all dog piled me with the cut n pastes.

i always regret getting involved with conversations with druggies.. marijuana fixes this fixes that, conspiracy here, conspiracy there.

I didn't call anyone here gunphobic, yet, just a point that no one ever is able to rebut.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

cant say im unhappy the local meth head street thugs dont have them.

the places that those crowd do, arent pleasant.

Has it occurred to you that if people can procure meth illegally that they could also procure guns illegally?

There's this but, it's trivial to his point.

The pipeline for guns can become so squeezed that the impulsive don't get them.

Instead, it goes to the organized criminals who are much more selective in their usage, in that their not hassling the man on the street, at least with the gun itself.

And to people who, for whatever reason, keep an illegally-owned gun stored away for some sort of just in case chaos scenario- again, not the type of person to shoot from the hip.

[Mr. Perfect]

The pipeline for guns can become so squeezed that the impulsive don't get them.

Says who.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

I'm not sure how easy it would be to squeeze supply lines here, as opposed to Australia.

In theory, our current anti-gun cities are supposed to work like this, and it's done squat.

[Mr. Perfect]

Again there is a century of hard data on this.

Gun control countries don't have the same inner city gang violence the US does. The bulk of murder in the US is inner city gang kids slaughtering each other and they live under European style gun control.

Mass shooters, islamics, magabombers etc make up 1% of murder.

This is all known.

The difference between gun control countries and the US is the gang violence. Subtract out the gang violence and our rates of murder are on par with the lowest countries.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

Right.
And it's a problem of political will.

Which is why, like I said earlier, we talk around it by making it seem as if rednecks are racking up body counts.

We have certain ghettos which we've allowed to get so bad that they are effectively run like Sadr City was during the Iraq War. And their probably to a point that we'd have to send in the armed forces, like with Sadr City.

And like Sadr City, the reason we can't is because of political weight favors the status quo. And part of that political weight comes from the bar itself and their partners in crime in the social-working business and those political offices which rather not do simply things like reincorporate areas to reflect metropolitan settlements.

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Our patchwork solutions have been paper sledgehammers- 'war on drugs' stuff; taking sentencing out of the hand of judges; and gun laws.

All of them have had certain major drawbacks and dodgy results.

Taking away the guns outright would need the backing to take beyond that...and then we are mired in the weeds of boutique American problems.

[Mr. Perfect]

There is also gangster rap. Gang murder culture has never been more celebrated in our history than now, and black people are paying the price. And they seem to like paying the price.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

I don't know if it's the most celebrated, now.

We have a long history of valorizing gangsters, to a point that it's become synonymous with authenticity.

[Mr. Perfect]

Some of us do, for sure.

I recall a few years ago the Dukes of Hazard was banned from TV because some kook with a Confederate Flag killed some black folks.

I asked at the time, how many killings per year can we connect with the Dukes of Hazard/Confederate Flag. Maybe 0-1 per year.

How many murders can we connect to gangster rap? About half of them.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

But gangsta rap, the culture behind it, maybe moreso than the frontmen itself is, as the kids say, toxic fallout of black separatist movements.

Beats me why the powers that be think the Black Panthers 2.0 (which is essentially how the Crips describe themselves) winning is a good thing.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

just an addendum to the redneck comment: it's their biker gangs that are just as bad as the other groups. But the biker gangs have very sophisticated and hard to penetrate operations and usually offload any open mayhem to the black and Hispanic gangs to avoid the same amount of heat.

These people need to be broken up too.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

No, half the murders follow the pattern of:

X disrespected Y at a house party; so Y leaves party, gathers his posse and they drive by the house shooting randomly, hitting anybody around X.

There would be great progress if we can just get Y to target X, and X only.

[Mr. Perfect]

All while listening to gangster rap.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

They also wear underpants and prefer to eat food.

[noddy]

cant say im unhappy the local meth head street thugs dont have them.

the places that those crowd do, arent pleasant.

Has it occurred to you that if people can procure meth illegally that they could also procure guns illegally?

umm, except it hasnt happened, but it is a great cut n paste talking point in american circles and i have seen it dozens of times, so i do admire the consistency.

[noddy]

this is about how i see it.

if city folks dont trust themselves with guns, im not going to argue with them about it.

if and when i ever want one or need one, i will have one.

Ermm, but they made guns illegal in the city and they still get them.

How did that happen.

because your country is smothered in guns and if one state bans them then its just a matter of smuggling them in from the next state.

waste of time trying to take guns off americans, i cant imagine wasting political effort on it.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

Gangsta Rap hasn't been a popular thing since Kayne West came onto the scene. I'd say it was more the rise of the dirty south rappers.

[noddy]

hero worship of gangsters, gangster music and violent drug gangs are a fact of life for all countries, this is not an american thing.

3rd world rates of violence and a population that needs to defend itself from the people walking down their streets, is the only thing unique to america among 1st world countries.

the rest of us just look on in bemusement/horror... all your talk about needing high powered rifles like you need seat belts is so far removed from my daily existence i cant really express how comical it seems.

its not guns, its something else, something todo with the slavery and civil war and the relationship to your police that the rest of us just dont quite get.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

because your country is smothered in guns and if one state bans them then its just a matter of smuggling them in from the next state.

I see the point but We should still see the effects of a half-closed spigot in those areas. Smuggling is hard work that lots of people need to know about.

Some areas you can argue we've seen that effect but not in the worst areas of Chicago and St.Louis or D.C., for example.

[noddy]

because your country is smothered in guns and if one state bans them then its just a matter of smuggling them in from the next state.

I see the point but We should still see the effects of a half-closed spigot in those areas. Smuggling is hard work that lots of people need to know about.

Some areas you can argue we've seen that effect but not in the worst areas of Chicago and St.Louis or D.C., for example.

sure but the drug gangs thing isnt special, everyone has those, however they dont flourish in quite the same way, for some reason.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

because your country is smothered in guns and if one state bans them then its just a matter of smuggling them in from the next state.

I see the point but We should still see the effects of a half-closed spigot in those areas. Smuggling is hard work that lots of people need to know about.

Some areas you can argue we've seen that effect but not in the worst areas of Chicago and St.Louis or D.C., for example.

sure but the drug gangs thing isnt special, everyone has those, however they dont flourish in quite the same way, for some reason.

The % of British women who've spent the last three decades under grooming gangs (as the authorities looked the other way) say hello.

And that's before we hit the street crime etiquette riven through South and Central America.

Or how about the Sicilian mafia in mainland Italy...

....the flourishing isn't that special either.

And in some ways better.

Hey, we are not Central America standards of crime!

[noddy]

Again there is a century of hard data on this.

Gun control countries don't have the same inner city gang violence the US does. The bulk of murder in the US is inner city gang kids slaughtering each other and they live under European style gun control.

Mass shooters, islamics, magabombers etc make up 1% of murder.

This is all known.

The difference between gun control countries and the US is the gang violence. Subtract out the gang violence and our rates of murder are on par with the lowest countries.

thats not the question - the question is why your gangs are so toxic and nobody elses are.

we have the full drug trade, south asian gangs, biker gangs from all around the world, even eastern european drug syndicates.

we have suburbs of desoloation , everyone on meth and worse, long term unemployables with nothing better todo than get wasted and get in fights.

england, canada, likewise, all this and more.

yet somehow you dont need to remove the gang stats from our murder rates, if you did, they would approach zero.

so what is it.. what unique quality in america makes everything so much more virulent.

[noddy]

because your country is smothered in guns and if one state bans them then its just a matter of smuggling them in from the next state.

I see the point but We should still see the effects of a half-closed spigot in those areas. Smuggling is hard work that lots of people need to know about.

Some areas you can argue we've seen that effect but not in the worst areas of Chicago and St.Louis or D.C., for example.

sure but the drug gangs thing isnt special, everyone has those, however they dont flourish in quite the same way, for some reason.

The % of British women who've spent the last three decades under grooming gangs (as the authorities looked the other way) say hello.

And that's before we hit the street crime etiquette riven through South and Central America.

Or how about the Sicilian mafia in mainland Italy...

....the flourishing isn't that special either.

And in some ways better.

Hey, we are not Central America standards of crime!

grooming goes on in all countries - that muslim gang in england are noxious but it shows up anywhere their are power positions over young women - one of our religious girls schools is having its moment in the sun over years of such things coming to light.

not sure its related to being worried you are going to get shot in your loungeroom.

and yes, south america and the worst of the italian mafia is the reference point

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

Unlike the Yakuza or Chinese on the west coast or the Russians and Italians on the East...the black gangs are not organized as corporate bodies.

That's the difference. A crew, and it's big man, hardly extends beyond a handful of guys...15 guys in a crew would be a huge operation. And even then it's mostly symbolic.

Whereas the mafia dons split territory and have an understanding that extends to rules determining ranks when they go to war with each other. So one don can be more or less assured that his instructions will followed down to the 100th man.

[noddy]

which is why we have the dont-ask-dont-tell thing going on with the biker gangs.

so, the solution to american gun violence is we need a black kublai khan in the gang riddled cities.