On the Nature of Things | Forum

Typhoon wrote: Second, if one counts both travel bans being blocked by US federal judges.

Blocking things in the courts is normal in America. I would have been shocked if nothing happened.

I wonder.

There are 30 million people who are paying penalties while everyone else experiences soaring premiums and deductibles. It is self repealing. It's the reason we are the supermajority party.

Heracleum Persicum wrote: you cant get out of this one, MP, with "fake news" excuse

Reality is, there is no better solution to Obama-Care if you want really insure those folks .. ain't Hocus Pocus .. Now U C, Now U don't .. that is what happened, they could not find anything better , and, credit goes to Trump, he said we keep it as is.

Finito .. end of story

.

Lol no. Nearly 30 million people are paying a penalty because they can't afford the insurance. You are still in the fakest of fake news.

Simple Minded wrote:

Nonc Hilaire wrote:Trump should grab this opportunity to make the healthcare industry comply with existing antitrust and freedom of trade laws, but he will not.

Very astute. Trust Busting may have some excellent results.

Seconded.

Trump's negotiating skills were on full display this week. This was textbook "Art of the Deal" stuff, right down to the ultimatum and threatening to walk away on Friday. What a dope!

And the GOP had 7 years -- SEVEN YEARS -- to put together an Obamacare replacement. Year after year they railed against it, held votes to repeal it, etc, etc. Now they run the country and this is what happens? It's business as usual in Washington: Democrats work hard to build consensus and govern sensibly, the GOP ruins it all with malicious incompetence. We're seeing that dynamic beginning to play out again.

Personally I'm glad your side is willing to stand up for a program that took you from supermajority to superminority.

Trump will be pushing single payer after this. This was the Republican party's chance to do something to get rid of Obamacare but like I said way back when it passed: "it'll never go away, every subsequent politician will promise that they can fix it better."

3...2...1...'till we start hearing about people dying in the streets because Republicans didn't work on Obamacare and that it's Trump's fault.

No.

Mr. Perfect wrote:No.

I don't like it anymore than you do, but that's what he's going to go for. He's always been (and always will be) a single-payer man.

He'll say we should look into what they do in Switzerland and Australia- then he'll come up with the brand and the way to sell it as something else while avoiding all the weenie words and peons to Sweden that Democrats usual make.

He'll say it's the best way to break the pricing problems and make sure everyone is covered.

And he'll peel off enough Bernie Sanders Democrats to get the thing passed.

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:Trump will be pushing single payer after this. This was the Republican party's chance to do something to get rid of Obamacare but like I said way back when it passed: "it'll never go away, every subsequent politician will promise that they can fix it better."

3...2...1...'till we start hearing about people dying in the streets because Republicans didn't work on Obamacare and that it's Trump's fault.

As others have noted, a lot of vested interests greatly benefit from the lack of transparency in medical expenses.
Single payer would be fought "tooth and nail".

I have to wonder if single payer could work in the US, not for economic, but cultural reasons.

Typhoon wrote:

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:Trump will be pushing single payer after this. This was the Republican party's chance to do something to get rid of Obamacare but like I said way back when it passed: "it'll never go away, every subsequent politician will promise that they can fix it better."

3...2...1...'till we start hearing about people dying in the streets because Republicans didn't work on Obamacare and that it's Trump's fault.

As others have noted, a lot of vested interests greatly benefit from the lack of transparency in medical expenses.
Single payer would be fought "tooth and nail".

I have to wonder if single payer could work in the US, not for economic, but cultural reasons.

I think you are right on the first two and I think right enough on the third. A very conservative acquaintance, entertaining the idea of single-payer, imagined the possibility would need to heavily include state gov'ts, dividing the nation into catchments, and putting real heavy limits on how much it can be tinkered with on the federal level....which means it would be very hard to coordinate and very unappealing to the Washington crew....

As far as I'm concerned, there is no easy answer here.

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:

Mr. Perfect wrote:No.

I don't like it anymore than you do, but that's what he's going to go for. He's always been (and always will be) a single-payer man.

Single payer will never happen.

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:He'll say we should look into what they do in Switzerland and Australia- then he'll come up with the brand and the way to sell it as something else while avoiding all the weenie words and peons to Sweden that Democrats usual make.

He'll say it's the best way to break the pricing problems and make sure everyone is covered.

And he'll peel off enough Bernie Sanders Democrats to get the thing passed.

No.

Typhoon wrote:

Simple Minded wrote:

Nonc Hilaire wrote:Trump should grab this opportunity to make the healthcare industry comply with existing antitrust and freedom of trade laws, but he will not.

Very astute. Trust Busting may have some excellent results.

Seconded.

No. Most private healthcare is non profit.

(mumbling in the corner)

australian single payer has been officially put on the deprecated list, has been so for years because its so expensive, so the latest version is that you get fined with extra taxes for using it and not changing to private health care.

compulsory payments to corporates is the new socialist freedom.

Lol tax incentives to stop using government. What will they think of next

Mr. Perfect wrote:

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:

Mr. Perfect wrote:No.

I don't like it anymore than you do, but that's what he's going to go for. He's always been (and always will be) a single-payer man.

Single payer will never happen.

It's coming and you voted for it

noddy wrote:(mumbling in the corner)

australian single payer has been officially put on the deprecated list, has been so for years because its so expensive, so the latest version is that you get fined with extra taxes for using it and not changing to private health care.

compulsory payments to corporates is the new socialist freedom.

this sounds wonderful

...like I said before, we should've never passed Obamacare

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:

Mr. Perfect wrote:

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:

Mr. Perfect wrote:No.

I don't like it anymore than you do, but that's what he's going to go for. He's always been (and always will be) a single-payer man.

Single payer will never happen.

It's coming and you voted for it

No it's not. obamacare will be repealed.

My experience in places with single-payer hasn't been too impressive though. Long waits, doctors rushing through, a hassle to set appointments/sign up for new doctors....

...the bit that really grates me is the paying for private insurance.

I get reason- like noddy says above- but it's the sort of double dipping that would drive me up a wall. And people walk around on this little globe like its fine for the government to take money for a purported universal service and then make you pay extra on top of it for real service.

Of course. Universal that is never universal, free that is never free, ripping you off to prevent you from being ripped off.

No, obamacare will be repealed, it is self repealing. The penalties are not viable and neither are the cost increases.

Repeal did not fail, replacement did. It will be done piecemeal most likely.

It's anecdotes but the funniest horror stories come from "white guy dealing with Chinese hospitals" where the doctors ignore you totally or stop treating you dead in your tracks when you run out of money to feed them--sort of like a vending machine.

I read one where this one guy brought his very sick roommate to a Shanghai hospital after he collapsed and they ended up waiting hours before anyone even acknowledged he existed. Then, as the roommate was finally going to get some help, in comes this emergency patient who was hit by a car and in really bad shape. The hospital staff ran up to the guy to ask him to translate for the patient as they were both general white guys. Luckily, the guy was Swedish so he spoke good-er English than our protagonist; and unluckily for our protagonist, the hospital forced him to totally abandon his friend and hop into a waiting ambulance to rush the guy to another hospital.

When they get there, they make him fill out the paperwork and they start billing him upfront for everything...the ambulance, tests and so on....then the doctor meets with him and says something like, "I'm afraid if we don't operate now, he will not make it through the night- it'll be X amount" So, the guy reaches his wallet, and notices he's run dry and he tells the doctor he can't cover the cost at that moment and the doctor doesn't even look up and says, "I'm sure he'll be fine." He hands him his release papers and promptly leaves the room. The staff comes in right away to pressure them to leave.

So he does the only thing he can do, takes this dying stranger back to his apartment and hopes he can make it through the night. Luckily he did, but the guy never got reimbursed for any of it.

There is something refreshing about being honestly screwed as opposed to being made to jump through hoops just to get screwed.

Mr. Perfect wrote:

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:

Mr. Perfect wrote:

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:

Mr. Perfect wrote:No.

I don't like it anymore than you do, but that's what he's going to go for. He's always been (and always will be) a single-payer man.

Single payer will never happen.

It's coming and you voted for it

.

No it's not. obamacare will be repealed.

.

G.O.P. Better Off Politically
with Health Bill Not Passed


America won .. If Trump "America First", than Trump too WON .. America won

Forget about "ObamaCare" and put time and energy into building up America

All fuss about "ObamaCare" is about MONEY, cost .. pay the cost and forget about it .. ObamaCare does not benefit Iranians or Mexicans or North Koreans, it is about "Poor Americans" who have no other venues.


.
.

Mr. Perfect wrote:

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:

Mr. Perfect wrote:

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:

Mr. Perfect wrote:No.

I don't like it anymore than you do, but that's what he's going to go for. He's always been (and always will be) a single-payer man.

Single payer will never happen.

It's coming and you voted for it

No it's not. obamacare will be repealed.

Obamacare will blow out and everybody will go on Medicaid. I think this was the original plan.

Remember people may not own assets above $2k to recieve Medicaid. There is a three year lookback at any disposal of assets: sale of car, house, cash withdrawals etc. IMHO, moving the forced collapse of estates into government Medicaid pools was a planned objective and why the cost of care issue remains unmentioned.

Mr. Perfect wrote:

Typhoon wrote:

Simple Minded wrote:

Nonc Hilaire wrote:Trump should grab this opportunity to make the healthcare industry comply with existing antitrust and freedom of trade laws, but he will not.

Very astute. Trust Busting may have some excellent results.

Seconded.

No. Most private healthcare is non profit.

Non-profit status only disallows the distribution of dividends to shareholders and alters taxation. Non-profits are still businesses like any other. The bottom line usually labeled "profit" is renamed "revenue in excess of expenses".