Immigration debate in the USA

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Apollonius
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Re: Immigration debate in the USA

Post by Apollonius »

The civic cost of illegal immigration - Victor Davis Hanson, Hoover Institution, 28 March 2017
http://www.hoover.org/research/civic-co ... 2017-03-29

The arguments for ignoring illegal immigration are as well-known as the self-interested motives that drive it.

In the abstract, open-borders advocates argue that in a globalized culture, borders are becoming reactionary and artificial constructs. They should not interrupt more natural ebbs and flows of migrant populations.

More concretely, an array of vested interests sees advantage in dismantling the border: employers in hospitality, construction, food processing, and agriculture prefer hard-working low-wage immigrants, whose social needs are often subsidized by the government and who are reluctant to organize for higher wages.

The Democratic Party welcomes in impoverished immigrants from Latin America and Mexico. It hopes to provide generous social welfare assistance and thereby shepherd new arrivals and their offspring into the salad bowl of victimization and identity politics—and thereby change the electoral map of key states from red to blue.

La Raza activists see unchecked illegal immigration as useful in maintaining a large pool of unassimilated and poor foreign nationals who look to group leaders, thereby ensuring the continuance of what has become an industry of ethnic activism and careerism.

Mexico—which is now offering advice to illegal immigrants on how best to avoid U.S. federal immigration authorities—has the most to gain by porous borders. It envisions the United States as a relief valve destination to export its own poor and desperate rather than to have them agitate and demand costly social services from Mexico City.

Mexico enjoys some $25 billion in annual remittances, predicated on the unspoken assumption that its poor and hard-working expatriates can only afford to send such vast sums out of the United States through the magnanimity of the American social welfare system that helps subsidize families to free up hard-earned cash. Mexico has learned that its own expatriates are loyal proponents who romanticize Mexico—the farther away and longer they are absent from it. ...



It obviously works that way for at least some Iranians too. Look at HP. Always looking down his nose at poor Joe, duped by people who don't want to invite more self-righteous hypocrites with too much money into the country.
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Typhoon
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Re: Immigration debate in the USA

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OTNOT SFRs
2/ Descent of a debate into the petty and the personal is not.

5/ OTNOT is an anonymous forum. Please respect other poster's anonymity as they do yours.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: Immigration debate in the USA

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.


Chinese Exclusion Act (1882)


What a disaster .. What a disaster,

The logic of Chinese exclusion was a racial one.

You could say the religious part of Trump’s order pertaining to Muslims is a new kind of racism but the original racist argument behind the exclusion act was that Chinese cannot assimilate, that there is something about Chinese that makes them innately alien and unable to assimilate. That’s the same logic as Trump’s view that Muslims follow a hateful religion and that Muslim’s don’t love America.

..

Chinese were the only group to be excluded from the US by name.

The Japanese were later excluded from the US through diplomatic agreement under the so-called gentleman’s agreement in 1907 and then statutorily in 1924, although the Japanese weren’t mentioned by name. The statute said: “No alien ineligible for US citizenship can be admitted.” It worked backwards from the idea that if you’re unable to be a citizen, as in the case of the Japanese, then you can’t come in.

South Asians were excluded from 1917 when Congress created what it called a “barred Asiatic zone” that stretched from Afghanistan to the Pacific. The euphemisms in these laws were used in part for diplomatic reasons because Japan was very different from China; it was a strong power. India was part of the British Empire at the time. The US was a little hesitant to offend both Japan and Britain.


Holly Cow , Holly Cow, look game Lord plays .. now, that SH*T Chinese US did not want to have, the beholder of American value, American Supreme, Court playing the "Race" card, is now ruling the world .. look Where China and where US now.


Well, simple Minded, did'n't I tell you ? you have a bad track record. .. Mr Mamadou better be safe than sorry


SM, you have the Mike.


.
Simple Minded

Re: Immigration debate in the USA

Post by Simple Minded »

HP,

Once again, but the last time, I promise, where do you live? Why not in the remote mountain village of Iran? Please help me understand.

from a previous post:

HP, you missed the whole point. Please go back and re-read the last few posts. I did not blame Mr. Mamadou for his fear, but....... I am assuming from this reply that you feel you have no culpability for propagating the fear Mr. Mamadou felt. Recall our conversation about using fear to steer the herd. HP, you are one of the ones doing the steering! Think about it. ;)

It would have been interesting to talk to Mr. Mamadou peers. What did they believe? What were their sources of information? Did he not trust DeBlaisio to keep him safe?

Immigration shows up at his house three times? Why did he not contact them rather than flee the country? Because someone convinced him that US Immigration were the Stasi? Did he read your posts? Could the person who convinced him that US immigration are the Stasi have been you?

Voting with your feet is always more effective and efficient than hoping the ballot box will somehow magically change human nature and "fix" "society." This is America, people flee "red states" for "blue states" and vice versa all the time. Mr Mamadou left a blue city in a blue state in a semi-blue country for a even bluer country...., at least in his perception.

In any event, Mr. Mamadou is now home free. Good for him. He showed ambition and incentive, and he should be applauded for his efforts. Since Trudeau is not Trump, and Canadians are not as hateful as Americans..... he is now in a safe place that will not send him back to the US, nor treat him as poorly as "America" treated him. He won! I wish him the best.


I'm also waiting for the Canadian government to announce that all people who don't feel safe in the US, will be welcomed into Canada. Shirley this announcement will happen soon, right? 10 days? 20 days? A month? It has to happen, no way will Canada descend to the level of the racist US and not allow anyone and everyone who wants to, to cross their borders, and stay in Canada, right?
Last edited by Simple Minded on Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: Immigration debate in the USA

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Apollonius wrote:.

It obviously works that way for at least some Iranians too. Look at HP. Always looking down his nose at poor Joe, duped by people who don't want to invite more self-righteous hypocrites with too much money into the country.

.

HP best friend of Joe .. looks down @ crooks playing innocent Joe

and

Immigrants come to Canada with an average $47,000 in savings


There are 2 factions in Canada

One faction is "Apollonius" faction .. they say, we happy with cutting the trees and shipping to US and living of that .. we don't want anybody coming after we came .. no matter if Canada's population goes down, economy goes down, Canadian standing in world economy goes down, we happy the way it is (cutting the trees and shipping to US).

The other faction says, cutting trees and shipping to US will not guaranty future for Canada, Canada needs dramatic more population and dramatic bigger economy to make Canada an important partner sitting at the table .. for that Canada needs massive immigration, 500,000 every year .. that size of immigration (if Canada does not want to become an African or Chinese or Indian majority) can only come from Middle East .. Iranians are those "Caucasian" westerners calling themselves, high civilization, high culture, white, Aryen (if they come with money, the better, but not many do .. Canada give priority to young Iranian with children, point system), highly skilled and entrepreneurial .. in fact, Iranian immigrants are sought worldwide.

So, Apollonius, don't complain, immigrant bring wealth and prosperity to Canada .. True , West Vancouver homes $ 5-30 million, but is this bad (the Canadians are the sellers getting those millions) ? Canadian retiree who had bought those properties for 35K now selling them for 5 m (Canadian government word) .. that money trickles and trickles into economy and everybody benefits .. West Van is a small community, who do you think paid for that state of the art community centre ? property taxes on homes worth 35K could not pay for that.

So, be thankful for immigrants coming to Canada, soon, those Syrian immigrants will be integrated into Canadian economy and in generation they will excel.

HP neither in nor profited from Real Estate, nor "filthy rich" (the filthy rich are the Canadians who sell all over Vancouver their properties 100 fold what they were worth 25 yrs ago to Chinese etc) .. unfortunately, in both cases :lol:

.
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Doc
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Re: Immigration debate in the USA

Post by Doc »

Heracleum Persicum wrote:
Apollonius wrote:.

It obviously works that way for at least some Iranians too. Look at HP. Always looking down his nose at poor Joe, duped by people who don't want to invite more self-righteous hypocrites with too much money into the country.

.

HP best friend of Joe .. looks down @ crooks playing innocent Joe

and

Immigrants come to Canada with an average $47,000 in savings


There are 2 factions in Canada

One faction is "Apollonius" faction .. they say, we happy with cutting the trees and shipping to US and living of that .. we don't want anybody coming after we came .. no matter if Canada's population goes down, economy goes down, Canadian standing in world economy goes down, we happy the way it is (cutting the trees and shipping to US).

The other faction says, cutting trees and shipping to US will not guaranty future for Canada, Canada needs dramatic more population and dramatic bigger economy to make Canada an important partner sitting at the table .. for that Canada needs massive immigration, 500,000 every year .. that size of immigration (if Canada does not want to become an African or Chinese or Indian majority) can only come from Middle East .. Iranians are those "Caucasian" westerners calling themselves, high civilization, high culture, white, Aryen (if they come with money, the better, but not many do .. Canada give priority to young Iranian with children, point system), highly skilled and entrepreneurial .. in fact, Iranian immigrants are sought worldwide.

So, Apollonius, don't complain, immigrant bring wealth and prosperity to Canada .. True , West Vancouver homes $ 5-30 million, but is this bad (the Canadians are the sellers getting those millions) ? Canadian retiree who had bought those properties for 35K now selling them for 5 m (Canadian government word) .. that money trickles and trickles into economy and everybody benefits .. West Van is a small community, who do you think paid for that state of the art community centre ? property taxes on homes worth 35K could not pay for that.

So, be thankful for immigrants coming to Canada, soon, those Syrian immigrants will be integrated into Canadian economy and in generation they will excel.

HP neither in nor profited from Real Estate, nor "filthy rich" (the filthy rich are the Canadians who sell all over Vancouver their properties 100 fold what they were worth 25 yrs ago to Chinese etc) .. unfortunately, in both cases :lol:

.
Leesburg Virginia. Used to be a small town not far from the Potomac river. If you grew up there 20 or 30 years ago your home town does not exist anymore. 10 or 20 years of high grow did that.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
Simple Minded

Re: Immigration debate in the USA

Post by Simple Minded »

Apollonius wrote:The civic cost of illegal immigration - Victor Davis Hanson, Hoover Institution, 28 March 2017
http://www.hoover.org/research/civic-co ... 2017-03-29
excellent article, as usual from VDH. Thanks for posting Apollonius. IIRC, VDH has been writing eyewitness accounts of the results of California's sanctuary ideology for close to ten years now.

Still waiting for the open borders advocates at OTNOT to post pictures of themselves and all the illegal, undocumented, refugees that they have taken into their own homes.

I know their behavior can't be as racist, selfish, or xenophobic as my own behavior, that would de-legitimatize their opinions. Shirley, they are better persons than I, not just in cyberspace, but also here on Earth! :?

Best summary yet I have seen of the "Immigration Debate in the USA" You don't see these many of these residences in the US. More now than 15 years ago, due to AGW or social evolution, I assume. They say resale value is very low. Specially in red states.
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: Immigration debate in the USA

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H-1Bvisa.png
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Re: Immigration debate in the USA

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... story.html

Trump tells companies not to overlook qualified Americans
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
noddy
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Re: Immigration debate in the USA

Post by noddy »

this is what small numbers of humans looks like

Image

this is what high numbers of humans looks like

Image
ultracrepidarian
Simple Minded

Re: Immigration debate in the USA

Post by Simple Minded »

Heracleum Persicum wrote:
H-1Bvisa.png
got any recent stats on immigrants to Canada?
Simple Minded

Re: Immigration debate in the USA

Post by Simple Minded »

noddy wrote:this is what small numbers of humans looks like

Image

this is what high numbers of humans looks like

Image
Those arguments are irrefutable. Put in Simple Minded Commoner Language (SMCL) "Moats are good!"

Bottom photo is Canada 2025 after 160+ million Trump refugees move in. Why? Cause they go no moat!
noddy
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Re: Immigration debate in the USA

Post by noddy »

thats what you merkins need, 2 more atlantic/pacific canals, the mexican one is fairly easy but the canuck one is going to take some serious effort.

should keep generations employed!
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: Immigration debate in the USA

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

.


The ungrateful refugee :
‘ We have no debt to repay ’



Excellent reading for you guys .. please read


.
Simple Minded

Re: Immigration debate in the USA

Post by Simple Minded »

Heracleum Persicum wrote:.


The ungrateful refugee :
‘ We have no debt to repay ’



Excellent reading for you guys .. please read
HP,

I read it and the article seems like a big nothing burger. She does not feel appreciated as an individual? She was bullied by others for being different? Sounds like the childhood experience of everyone I have ever met.

It would be interesting to know how many times each day of her life she heard "Hey! You ungrateful immigrant! You should be more appreciative!" I'm guessing not as often as I heard something similar from my parents or grandparents! :(

Really, how can she feel appreciated as an individual when she is obsessed with her own group identity, and the group identity of "the others?" She is two years younger than some of my relatives, who have similar ideas of victimhood and being offended. Seems not only racial and national, but also generational. Every person I have ever met who is a slave to their own concept of group identity seems to have the same experiences, and the same general dissatisfaction that "society" doesn't have "the will" to "fix" people. Bizarre, isn't it?

England, America, France, England....... "navtivist people" are all like that? Do you see a pattern? I do, just not the same one she sees.

Hint, one of my favorite observations: "White people, they are all like that!"

She needs to get to Canada. I hear the people there are better.

Interestingly, it never occurred to her to move back to Iran? Would not a literature professor be greatly appreciated in the remote mountain villages of Iran where illiterate farmers are the pinnacle (no pun intended) of high civilization?

Wonder if in her literature studies, she has ever read Milton?
Last edited by Simple Minded on Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Simple Minded

Re: Immigration debate in the USA

Post by Simple Minded »

Now for some good news on this topic. I just Googled "justin trudeau said that all immigrants who want to flee from trump are welcome in canada"

521,000 results!

It is a start! :)
noddy
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Re: Immigration debate in the USA

Post by noddy »

let me guess!

white folks of anglo extraction are sub humans and nasty ? iranians have to lower themselves from an ivory tower to suffer their presence ?

i get 1 billion bonus virtual wanker points if im right.
ultracrepidarian
Simple Minded

Re: Immigration debate in the USA

Post by Simple Minded »

noddy wrote:let me guess!

white folks of anglo extraction are sub humans and nasty ? iranians have to lower themselves from an ivory tower to suffer their presence ?

i get 1 billion bonus virtual wanker points if im right.
not an ivory tower, a remote mountain village!

virtual wanker points? is that anything like a tattoo or a body piercing?

I find that it is only racist people that don't take refugees into their homes.

Which means if there are too many racist people in your neighborhood, and they turn away the refugees, pretty soon the refugees will be knocking on your door.

No wonder why everyone hates racists!
noddy
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Re: Immigration debate in the USA

Post by noddy »

the fatal flaw in convincing folks they are assholes is that they may end up agreeing with you.
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Re: Immigration debate in the USA

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

That she is a professor suggests to me that her physical interaction with people demanding she be grateful is almost nonexistent. The issue for her is all inside her head....maybe someone yelled at her on the interwebs about it.
Simple Minded

Re: Immigration debate in the USA

Post by Simple Minded »

noddy wrote:the fatal flaw in convincing folks they are assholes is that they may end up agreeing with you.
I agree. Not sure if that makes me one of all y'all, or you one of us. :?
Simple Minded

Re: Immigration debate in the USA

Post by Simple Minded »

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote:That she is a professor suggests to me that her physical interaction with people demanding she be grateful is almost nonexistent. The issue for her is all inside her head....maybe someone yelled at her on the interwebs about it.
If only there was a way to make people who are connected to those interwebs aware that American Universities are not safe spaces, but remote mountain villages in Iran are safe spaces, then "we" could help those people.

Well, not "us," actually, but the mountain villagers could help them.

What to do? :?
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Heracleum Persicum
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Re: Immigration debate in the USA

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

Simple Minded wrote:.

Now for some good news on this topic. I just Googled "justin trudeau said that all immigrants who want to flee from trump are welcome in canada"

521,000 results!

It is a start! :)

.


Even Canadians skipping trips to United States
after the Trump travel ban


The toll of the president’s proposals has been swift on the nation’s tourism industry, with tour group organizers saying that people suddenly have an unsettling sense that the United States isn't as welcoming a place as it once was.

One industry expert pegs the projected lost revenue for 2017 at $7.4 billion

.

The whole thing was really s*lly .. Iranians are all over the world, most German hospitals head are Iranian doctors, top neurosurgeons are Iranians, top university faculty heads are Iranians, many Europeans/Americans married to Iranians .. that's what broke the back of the camel

$ 7.4 billion revenue loss for 2017, things could get worst, lot worst

And, WHY ?

That POS Giuliani and Natanyahu fooled Donald .. Clear winner are the mad mullahs

Now, many Europeans skipping US visit


.
Mr. Perfect
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Re: Immigration debate in the USA

Post by Mr. Perfect »

Just so you know, WP is fake news owned by bezos. They predicted Hillary would win, 92%. May as well read mad magazine.
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