Immigration debate in the USA

[Heracleum Persicum]

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In the 2015 Australian Census, 380,000 residents declared that they were born in Africa.

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You wanna bet from that 380,000 born in Africa less that 5 % are blacks ?

You wanna bet ?

Those 380,000 born in Africa are South African whites .. Afrikaans .. many came to Canada

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[noddy]

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In the 2015 Australian Census, 380,000 residents declared that they were born in Africa.

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You wanna bet from that 380,000 born in Africa less that 5 % are blacks ?

You wanna bet ?

Those 380,000 born in Africa are South African whites .. Afrikaans .. many came to Canada

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i already said about 1/4 is white flight from south africa.

Code: Select all

According to the 2006 Australian census 104,128 Australians were born in South Africa.

rest is mostly black - small numbers of whites from zimbabwe.

your prejudices are out of date by many decades.

i have many somalis and kenyans in my area - quite common.

[Heracleum Persicum]

new zealand is a tiny country of 4.5 million in the middle of nowhere, low immigration is to be expected but the magority is now chinese and indians.

you claimed "white only immigration"

Not that the policy changed, the issue is "White only" immigrant does not exist anymore .. if you need immigrants, in big numbers, only choice is Indian and Chinese.

I am astonished why Australia give so hardship to Iranian immigrants .. how many illegal IRANIAN immigrants reach Australia per year, would say less than 100 .. so , why so hard on them ? ? they worst than Indian and Chinese ?

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[Heracleum Persicum]

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In the 2015 Australian Census, 380,000 residents declared that they were born in Africa.

.

You wanna bet from that 380,000 born in Africa less that 5 % are blacks ?

You wanna bet ?

Those 380,000 born in Africa are South African whites .. Afrikaans .. many came to Canada

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i already said about 1/4 is white flight from south africa.

Code: Select all

According to the 2006 Australian census 104,128 Australians were born in South Africa.

rest is mostly black - small numbers of whites from zimbabwe.

your prejudices are out of date by many decades.

i have many somalis and kenyans in my area - quite common.

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My info is from media .. could be old .. if wrong, I beg for pardon

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[noddy]

new zealand is a tiny country of 4.5 million in the middle of nowhere, low immigration is to be expected but the magority is now chinese and indians.

you claimed "white only immigration"

Not that the policy changed, the issue is "White only" immigrant does not exist anymore .. if you need immigrants, in big numbers, only choice is Indian and Chinese.

I am astonished why Australia give so hardship to Iranian immigrants .. how many illegal IRANIAN immigrants reach Australia per year, would say less than 100 .. so , why so hard on them ? ? they worst than Indian and Chinese ?

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you need the paperwork, you cant just arrive and expect to get let in, we have many legal iranian immigrants, i used to live with them in melbourne, lovely people.

im not saying its good, im just saying its how most places do it - i cant just go somewhere without passports and visas, or i will also get locked up.

also,their are many refugee camps around the world, most of them have horror stories, not all of those horror stories get as much attention as ours because many countries have policies to not put dirty laundry in public.

[noddy]

My info is from media .. could be old .. if wrong, I beg for pardon

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lots of english based lefty media (like the guardian) have people who make a good living from rubbishing australia and america to make themselves feel better about england.

ive travelled most of the southern hemisphere, australia is miles ahead of the other places in terms of racial harmony and most of that is because we mostly import comfy middle class and avoid the hard work of importing rural folks.

if you want to rubbish australia, the truth is we dont care where you come from, we care how fat your wallet is.

this is why black africans are only recently coming in large numbers is because its only recently they have been middle class.

its not racist, its classist

[Heracleum Persicum]

new zealand is a tiny country of 4.5 million in the middle of nowhere, low immigration is to be expected but the magority is now chinese and indians.

you claimed "white only immigration"

Not that the policy changed, the issue is "White only" immigrant does not exist anymore .. if you need immigrants, in big numbers, only choice is Indian and Chinese.

I am astonished why Australia give so hardship to Iranian immigrants .. how many illegal IRANIAN immigrants reach Australia per year, would say less than 100 .. so , why so hard on them ? ? they worst than Indian and Chinese ?

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you need the paperwork, you cant just arrive and expect to get let in, we have many legal iranian immigrants, i used to live with them in melbourne, lovely people.

im not saying its good, im just saying its how most places do it - i cant just go somewhere without passports and visas, or i will also get locked up.

also,their are many refugee camps around the world, most of them have horror stories, not all of those horror stories get as much attention as ours because many countries have policies to not put dirty laundry in public.


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Except flying in, otherwise it is very difficult to get to Australia .. only way is boat .. it is a very long and dangerous journey .. not many Iranian can reach Australia with boat.

Agree, my info was old , probably generation or two old .. things have changed last 40 yrs, same as it changed in Canada .. my guess would be, Canada, Australia, even US changed the immigration policy in 1970's .. they all liberalized it, part of globalization (now we see the blowback)

When in 1960's I lived in Europe, for anybody (say Iranian) becoming German, or Swiss or french citizen , it was practically impossible .. but things apparently changed dramatically in 1970's .. all my Iranian friends from university got easily Swiss, German, British citizenship.


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[Doc]

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Geee Az a little while ago you were saying that Whites in the US were already a minority. Now you are claiming they are a repressive Majority...

What a disaster !!! What A disaster AZ!!!



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Don't remember saying they already minority, might have said on the way to.

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am not sure whether "White European" (ams sure by "White Europeans" you mean excluding Mexicans and latin America) now a majority as you say, for sure soon not anymore .. that not because of Muslims or Iranians, the Mexicanos gonna take over America like termites eat California homes.

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I said "of European descent" Never mentioned anything about race. No such thing as different "races" of humans AZ. "race" is just a made up concept meant to divide people. Anyone interjecting "race" into a conversation without the quotes is inherently self identifying as a "racist" that wishes to divide people into groups so they can be pitted against each other. When I say "of European descent" I am referring to cultural heritage not "race"


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If so, Iranians are more "European descent" than Texas or Hutchinson Kansas folks .. in fact, Iranians "Mediterranean", specially now that we own Lebanon and Syria

Doc, nothing wrong with saying different races .. Völkerkunde (anthropology) ethnology (branch of anthropology) .. this a exact science.

What went wrong and made a bad name for Völkerkunde was when Hitler said some races are inferior .. that is called RACISM

Of course there are different races .. but that is not "racism" .. "racism" is if one says the other race inferior

And .. with all due respect, all this Muslim rubbish in US & Europe is (in closet) racism .. they say Muslims but mean Arab

Hitler was not talking about Judaism theology , he always said "Jüdische Rasse" .. meaning Hebrew Tribe

Don't kid yourself.

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You kid yourself in believing in different "races" of humans. The Human race has not been around long enough to have different "Races" Hitler was certainly a "racist" so were American progressives and the financial elite of late 19th and early 20th century America. But the idea of different "races" of human are just as much pseudo science now as they were then.

But again I am saying European "culture" heritage not "race" Iranians classed under the "racial" classification are Caucasian But culturally, at least under the mad mullahs they are 8th century Middle Eastern.

[Typhoon]

Would you please come to E Asian and explain it.

The faux concept of race is alive and well.

Ridiculously so, as people talk about the "Han race", the "pure Japanese race", and especially the "pure Korean race".

It's all a load of bollocks, but is still a deeply ingrained cultural belief in various Asian nations.

Very 19th century.

[Typhoon]

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Geee Az a little while ago you were saying that Whites in the US were already a minority. Now you are claiming they are a repressive Majority...

What a disaster !!! What A disaster AZ!!!



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Don't remember saying they already minority, might have said on the way to.

and

am not sure whether "White European" (ams sure by "White Europeans" you mean excluding Mexicans and latin America) now a majority as you say, for sure soon not anymore .. that not because of Muslims or Iranians, the Mexicanos gonna take over America like termites eat California homes.

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I said "of European descent" Never mentioned anything about race. No such thing as different "races" of humans AZ. "race" is just a made up concept meant to divide people. Anyone interjecting "race" into a conversation without the quotes is inherently self identifying as a "racist" that wishes to divide people into groups so they can be pitted against each other. When I say "of European descent" I am referring to cultural heritage not "race"


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If so, Iranians are more "European descent" than Texas or Hutchinson Kansas folks .. in fact, Iranians "Mediterranean", specially now that we own Lebanon and Syria

Doc, nothing wrong with saying different races .. Völkerkunde (anthropology) ethnology (branch of anthropology) .. this a exact science.

What went wrong and made a bad name for Völkerkunde was when Hitler said some races are inferior .. that is called RACISM

Of course there are different races .. but that is not "racism" .. "racism" is if one says the other race inferior

And .. with all due respect, all this Muslim rubbish in US & Europe is (in closet) racism .. they say Muslims but mean Arab

Hitler was not talking about Judaism theology , he always said "Jüdische Rasse" .. meaning Hebrew Tribe

Don't kid yourself.

.

You kid yourself in believing in different "races" of humans. The Human race has not been around long enough to have different "Races" Hitler was certainly a "racist" so were American progressives and the financial elite of late 19th and early 20th century America. But the idea of different "races" of human are just as much pseudo science now as they were then.

But again I am saying European "culture" heritage not "race" Iranians classed under the "racial" classification are Caucasian But culturally, at least under the mad mullahs they are 8th century Middle Eastern.

Quite.

Fw7FhU-G1_Q

[Simple Minded]

Canada imports 500,000 a year


BTW , my apology, mentioned Canada population now 45 , was typo, population now 35.


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10,000,000 people have left Canada since Trump was elected? No wonder you guys are welcoming immigrants...

[Simple Minded]

My info is from media .. could be old .. if wrong, I beg for pardon

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lots of english based lefty media (like the guardian) have people who make a good living from rubbishing australia and america to make themselves feel better about england.

ive travelled most of the southern hemisphere, australia is miles ahead of the other places in terms of racial harmony and most of that is because we mostly import comfy middle class and avoid the hard work of importing rural folks.

if you want to rubbish australia, the truth is we dont care where you come from, we care how fat your wallet is.

this is why black africans are only recently coming in large numbers is because its only recently they have been middle class.

its not racist, its classist

Thank You! Any country that treats immigrants differently than a rational employer interviewing potential employees is just asking for trouble.

The argument that your nation will be much better off in a couple generations by taking us in, doesn't seem to hold much weight in the minds of many people.

Weird how even liberal altruists don't find the concept of "expenses now, benefits later," very appealing.

I heard "an expert" say that the policies for immigrants on Mexico's southern border is to allow them 21 days to get to the US border before they are deported.

"We" could really help Canada a lot, by adopting the same policy, or even starting a gofundme page for bus service...

[Simple Minded]

since no one has yet posted any pictures of the illegal immigrant refugees that they have taken into their house.......

I have to assume that the Tribal identity of the wonderful "We," while much better than the deplorable "Them," is not considered to be as meaningful or rewarding as the personal identity of "Me."

Finally, common ground in cyberspace!

"Of course, I am a superior specimen of humanity. There should be no borders and our people have always welcomed refugees in to our country."
"Really? How many immigrants/refugees are you currently clothing, housing, feeding, educating, and providing with health care?"
"Well.... I don't want those filthy buggers in my house...... But if the rich would only pay their fair share...."

"We" seems like a part time job one only goes to on rainy days when one can't find anything better to do. 'Me" is a full time.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

since no one has yet posted any pictures of the illegal immigrant refugees that they have taken into their house.......

I have to assume that the Tribal identity of the wonderful "We," while much better than the deplorable "Them," is not considered to be as meaningful or rewarding as the personal identity of "Me."

Finally, common ground in cyberspace!

"Of course, I am a superior specimen of humanity. There should be no borders and our people have always welcomed refugees in to our country."
"Really? How many immigrants/refugees are you currently clothing, housing, feeding, educating, and providing with health care?"
"Well.... I don't want those filthy buggers in my house...... But if the rich would only pay their fair share...."

"We" seems like a part time job one only goes to on rainy days when one can't find anything better to do. 'Me" is a full time.

When I was a youngling, and the Yugoslavian conflicts were raging, our little area got sent a samplin' of the displaced families from amongst the Croats, Slovenians and Albanians.

It was a like a gift from heaven- with them came dozens of girls, all them gorgeous, agreeable, and determined. If you want to put it in Trumpian terms you could say, "Believe me folks, they were sending their best!"

[Heracleum Persicum]

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Seattle takes the lead in resisting the Trump agenda

.. “We will not be intimidated by the authoritarian message coming from this administration,” . .

California seconded


More and more, Question becoming, who making our beloved America "Great Again"

All world laughing @ Trump .. main Washington subject today is Ivanka fashion sells in Northstrom

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[Heracleum Persicum]

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Seems Oregan too joining

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[Simple Minded]

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It was a like a gift from heaven- with them came dozens of girls, all them gorgeous, agreeable, and determined. If you want to put it in Trumpian terms you could say, "Believe me folks, they were sending their best!"

Obviously, there was a vetting process with high standards.......... see, the vetting process worked then, so it can still work now.

Maybe that's what all those rather unattractive women protesting in DC were upset about........

Union workers only want people who are lazier than them let into the country, plain women only want ugly women let into the country......

[Doc]

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It was a like a gift from heaven- with them came dozens of girls, all them gorgeous, agreeable, and determined. If you want to put it in Trumpian terms you could say, "Believe me folks, they were sending their best!"

Obviously, there was a vetting process with high standards.......... see, the vetting process worked then, so it can still work now.

Maybe that's what all those rather unattractive women protesting in DC were upset about........

Union workers only want people who are lazier than them let into the country, plain women only want ugly women let into the country......

That is literally true. The National Organization for Women literally got the law changed on foreign women coming into the US as brides of American men. If the marriage doesn't work out in the first year the only way they can stay is if they file criminal charges of spousal abuse against their husbands. Though I am not sure what happens if the women cuts off her husbands penis.


MAybe they end up dying in car accidents because some pick cut them off.

[Typhoon]

Ninth Circuit of Appeals Decision on the Travel Ban

Are there more levels or is the next date with SCOTUS?

[Heracleum Persicum]

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Ninth Circuit Decision on the Travel Ban

Are there more levels or is the next date with SCOTUS ?

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It will go to US-Supreme Court

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If US-Supreme Court too says the presidential order was wrong, and confirms the 2 federal judgements

If so, Trump should resign as President of US

Reason is, this no ordinary presidential order but, as many Clips show, Trump (and Guiliani and many others on his team) saying it is basically saying Muslims not allowed into US .. same as 1934 America said Jews not allowed into US .. and .. it is unconstitutional

Some say US interned American Japanese in WWII - yes , it did, and , APOLOGIZED and asked for forgiveness .. saying so, would mean apology did not mean much.

A US President that issues an presidential order that is against American constitution, and, even after 2 instances of federal judges say the order is against American constitution and even US-Supreme Court says , is not trusted to "uphold American Constitution"

This whole thing means Trump, Murdoch, Guiliani and all the Trump team either do not understand American constitution, or, look down and do not accept American constitution .. this vividly valid when Trump said "so called Federal Judge", showing he neither respect American constitution nor American judges.

Such Person is not qualified to be American President, as American president has sworn to uphold the constitution.

Central Issue here is, like some posters here and elsewhere, Trump misinterprets, or even does not know or understand what "protection of minority right and universal general human right" means .. Trump (and friends) think "Tyranny by Majority" is democracy (even worst he took power with minority popular vote)

He should resign .. World does not accept him anymore as leader of free world.


Joe was fooled, again

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[Typhoon]

Whatever.

Now, do you have an answer to my actual question?

[Heracleum Persicum]

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Whatever.

Now, do you have an answer to my actual question ?

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The possibilities are debated in CNN now

SC missing one judge, meaning 8 judges now in SC .. if case goes to SC and vote is 4 to 4 , if so, the judgement just issued by 9th circuit becomes final .. risky for Trump

Other possibility for DOJ is to take this to normal court .. additional judges will rule and chance bigger for Trump

Other solution, what 9th district judges suggested, Trump issues a "new" presidential order dropping many issues in the original order.

CNN saying now, this now viewed as ban against "Muslim" immigrants .. seems Trump asked Giuliani to draft a "Muslim ban" so that it does not look like one .. CNN now interviewing State of Washington AG , he says if Trump takes this to courts, they will deposit all involved, emails, phone calls , all under oath etc .. all presidents emails and phone calls will come to court.

Seems Trump asked Giuliani to draft a "Muslim ban" that does not look like "Muslim ban", that is why Pakistan or Saudi or Turkey not included, to argue this not Muslim ban.

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[Zack Morris]

We ‘need’ high skill immigrants like I need a second yacht.

We need them because there are no Americans capable of doing the work. The fact of the matter is, the US is only a small fraction of the world's manpower and has a sub-par education system (except in some heavily Democratic districts). Therefore, it is no surprise that a huge quantity of skilled labor exists outside of our borders.

We almost never see native born Americans applying for decent paying (> $300K/yr) positions. Many applicants are citizens but started out on OPT, H1B, or some other visa.

Aside from those who nestle well here,

Whether someone "nestles well here" depends partly on how the country receives them, which nationalists completely forget when they go on their foaming-at-the-mouth tirades against immigrants they probably don't even live near.

it is a dubious idea to import technicians we are not only capable of training but prevent companies from manufacturing the occupational castes which they've been getting away with.

Technicians? That's not only condescending -- what are native-born, white Americans capable of doing for work these days? -- it's grossly inaccurate. Many of these people end up climbing the ranks into executive positions. Virtually ever major tech company has immigrants at all levels of the corporate hierarchy. There is certainly abuse of the H1B program to import mere technicians. There are even part-time H1B (an obvious loophole). Few people have a problem addressing this issue. However, the mean H1B salary still skews very high -- far higher than the national average -- because a significant number of H1Bs are being payed in excess of $100K, indicating that there is a real demand for their skills.

Zack confuses best and brightest with "cheapest&connected".

No. I think you just lack firsthand experience with high value-add industry.

Dishwashers and bank tellers are more the norm....

I find bank tellers are usually native-born Americans. As for your Iranian friend, he obviously filled a niche that the large majority of Americans could not, else they would be earning as much as he is. He didn't take anyone else's job. Success is not a zero sum game, right?

[Heracleum Persicum]

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We ‘need’ high skill immigrants like I need a second yacht.

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"NapLajoieonSteroids", in final analysis, when all said and done, there has to be a reason that an American machinist should make (at least) 20 times per hour than a Chinese or Indian machinist.

The reason for that is the Patented American 'technology" .. American machinist builds and assembles machines that Indians and Chinese do not have the technology to.

That technology, PRODUCTIVITY, does not come from Hutchinson/Kansas, but from technology centre of America.

High Skilled Immigrants, Phd, scientist, technologist, researchers are the nuts & bolts of machine that generate wealth for America

Everything else in America .. the financial sector, Wall Street, real estate, homes, Boeing etc etc .. would diminish one way or other if no "High Skilled Immigrants"



"NapLajoieonSteroids", you should know, those "High Skilled Immigrants" are the cream of the cream of poor nations .. rich nations "High Skilled" do not come to America .. Do German Phd come to US ? NO, why should they ? .. Iranian, Indian, High Skilled Immigrants come to US .. those High Skilled Immigrants are the cream of the cream of their country and those countries have spent a lot of money to educate them.

One of the reason why America's primary education level is so low, is, America does not consider "economical" to educate their students (too expensive) .. America will BUY the smartest and most talented from 3rd world, Iran, India etc , more economical this way.

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[noddy]

only the sword fighting crowd cares, suddenly everyone is a believer in trickle down economics!



once you get over the hump from starving poor or being eastern european, diminishing returns on GDP to happyness cut in real fast, you can be as lazy and irrelevant as a new zealander and still live better than an american.

their is a shitload more to life than OMG MONEYZ and quality of life goes down with over crowding and stress on housing and services.