Computing | Software and Hardware

[Typhoon]

Comp World | With DaaS Windows coming, say goodbye to your PC as you know it

Hmmm. Although I use both Window and Linux OS, having to lease a Windows OS from Mr. Softie would make me reluctantly go all Linux.

[noddy]

same - linux + android gives me everything except my photography tools - all my coding and electronics software runs fine on linux anyway.

now that microsoft is forcing the spyware (cortana) and turning itself into android with reduced user control their is no point of difference except having to pay for updates.

i will miss windows 7 - it appears to be the high point of personal computing.

linux mint 18 has been the most pleasant user experience so far in the linux world - i really didnt spent much time at all playing silly buggers trying to get things to work.

[Typhoon]

Currently using Ubuntu 18.04. So far, so good.

The upgrade from the previous 17.x version failed and I had to reinstall.

The reason I stayed away from Linux in the past was poor support for Nvidia proprietary GPU drivers and related software.
No longer the case.

[noddy]

Im not sure why, I didnt like Ubuntu - the default desktop was clumsy and I couldnt be bothered doing the customisation work Im too old for that!

Id either go all-in on the do it yourself masochism with Debian or do the "everything comes installed" with Mint.

upgrades across magor versions have a tendancy to go pear shaped or create legacy mess on all systems, its usually best to clean slate them.

[noddy]

good place to start - if you find you have an affinity for it then I would recommend moving away from javascript sooner or later.

What would you use instead? I am working on a web based project. I started with html and css for basic layouts, but was recommended javascript. I don't know enough about other languages to know what I would use instead.

javascripts feature is that the code runs on the clients machine in the web browser - so its not a good choice for doing any kind of propriety work as anyone can steal all of the site logic easily - its reason for existing is automation and animation on the pages, not serious coding.

bring up the developer tools on any web browser you use and you can see all the web code that site is made from - many will make an attempt to make it harder to read but that wont deter any serious person.

if you want to keep parts of the project hidden from public view you need to move from the web browser and back to the server, this requires more learning but gives increased power and security.

all of microsoft or googles secret sauce exists on servers away from the public eye - the javascript is purely the user interaction polish.

the common choice for that on windows is C# and the MVC framework - available from the Microsoft developer tools in visual studio.

for the free and open source folks python and the flask framework are quite popular.

their are many many others, each has a religious following and many thousands of pages of flamewar on the internet from the various acolytes, the main point being you want a server based language, not a browser based one.

javascript is also not really suited towards a long lasting, engineered solution - it started off as quite a poor language, has slowly grown better over the years but still has to carry the turds of its past, whilst also being a bit of a moving target with incompatibilities across the various browsers.

I dont do much webwork any more (yay for me) so i tend to use c or c++ and write algorithms and firmware - lower level programming with less competition from the masses.


"when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" is the core factoid you need to remember when dealing with computer opinions - most folks will make a god out of the few things they know how to use.

[Simple Minded]

.......

"when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" is the core factoid you need to remember when dealing with computer opinions - most folks will make a god out of the few things they know how to use.

We don't have much common ground in the computer world, but you nailed a lot of aspects of humanity with the above statement.

Also expressed as "Better the devil you know."

[Typhoon]

Im not sure why, I didnt like Ubuntu - the default desktop was clumsy and I couldnt be bothered doing the customisation work Im too old for that!

Ubuntu has abandoned the Unity desktop and switched back to Gnome 3.x.

In my situation, I wanted to avoid installing anything I would not use, so the Ubuntu minimal install suited my requirements.
Added Python, CUDA, an AI framework, and MS Code. Good to go.

. . .
upgrades across magor versions have a tendancy to go pear shaped or create legacy mess on all systems, its usually best to clean slate them.

Indeed.

[Mr. Perfect]

Comp World | With DaaS Windows coming, say goodbye to your PC as you know it

Hmmm. Although I use both Window and Linux OS, having to lease a Windows OS from Mr. Softie would make me reluctantly go all Linux.

Yeah, I'm out.

[Mr. Perfect]

javascripts feature is that the code runs on the clients machine in the web browser - so its not a good choice for doing any kind of propriety work as anyone can steal all of the site logic easily - its reason for existing is automation and animation on the pages, not serious coding.

bring up the developer tools on any web browser you use and you can see all the web code that site is made from - many will make an attempt to make it harder to read but that wont deter any serious person.

if you want to keep parts of the project hidden from public view you need to move from the web browser and back to the server, this requires more learning but gives increased power and security.

all of microsoft or googles secret sauce exists on servers away from the public eye - the javascript is purely the user interaction polish.

the common choice for that on windows is C# and the MVC framework - available from the Microsoft developer tools in visual studio.

for the free and open source folks python and the flask framework are quite popular.

their are many many others, each has a religious following and many thousands of pages of flamewar on the internet from the various acolytes, the main point being you want a server based language, not a browser based one.

javascript is also not really suited towards a long lasting, engineered solution - it started off as quite a poor language, has slowly grown better over the years but still has to carry the turds of its past, whilst also being a bit of a moving target with incompatibilities across the various browsers.

I dont do much webwork any more (yay for me) so i tend to use c or c++ and write algorithms and firmware - lower level programming with less competition from the masses.


"when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" is the core factoid you need to remember when dealing with computer opinions - most folks will make a god out of the few things they know how to use.

Thank you very much. I would say, you are recommending I start learning C#?

[Mr. Perfect]

Also, does anyone know a good web developing forum they would recommend?

[Mr. Perfect]

And I am currently using Notepad ++, would I have to switch to MS Visual Code at some point?

[noddy]

Thank you very much. I would say, you are recommending I start learning C#?

sounds like it.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/static/intera ... uages-2018

this is a handy page of the most common languages and their use cases.

And I am currently using Notepad ++, would I have to switch to MS Visual Code at some point?

i use visual code out of preference but it is more of an editor than a programming environment so adds more burden to your learning curve,

the one you would get better mileage from is the community version of microsofts professional environment - visual studio.

I spent years using that, its very good and it does alot of the background grunt work like maintaining build files, deployment files, updating and restarting servers etc , automatically for you.

https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/vs/community/

todo a FullStack (tm) website potentially requires HTML,CSS, Javascript, CSharp and SQL and these run on the Web browser, Web server and Database server.

5 types of code across 3 types of environment

thats a whole lot of lavender to learn to do it properly, so starting with just the web browser and HTML,CSS and JavaScript is the correct first step - just be aware that its only the first step.

[noddy]

Also, does anyone know a good web developing forum they would recommend?

their are so many - however i dont really use any of them anymore because after so many decades i have built up a group of people i can informally ask for help or opinions.

https://stackoverflow.com/ is usually considered the biggest and best however its also got a double edge blade of the less skillful folks outnumbering the clueful ones so the most popular answer isnt always the best one.

microsoft has its own developer forums, eg: https://forums.asp.net/ for web devel on visual studio.

you will end up finding your own easily by typing the problem into google and getting used to which ones come up as common sources of solutions , then stick to those.

[noddy]

Im not sure why, I didnt like Ubuntu - the default desktop was clumsy and I couldnt be bothered doing the customisation work Im too old for that!

Ubuntu has abandoned the Unity desktop and switched back to Gnome 3.x.

In my situation, I wanted to avoid installing anything I would not use, so the Ubuntu minimal install suited my requirements.
Added Python, CUDA, an AI framework, and MS Code. Good to go.

re: ubuntu - -oh thats good, i might need to try it again, however mint is pretty much ubuntu with a neater desktop, so maybe its much of a muchness now.

re: CUDA + AI framework, im jealous, id love to have time and mental space to tinker with that more.

ive dabbled in such things to make sure i understand basic concepts but thats about it.

ms code is a brilliant editor, i love how its identical on windows and linux, has made jumping between platforms all the time quite easy.

[Typhoon]

. . .

ms code is a brilliant editor, i love how its identical on windows and linux, has made jumping between platforms all the time quite easy.

Agreed. I had been using the Spyder editor for Python, but now that Anaconoda includes MS Code as part of their distribution, I decided to have a look and was impressed by the ease of setup and use and, as you noted, it is OS agnostic. As the most recent release of Spyder was having issues, I decided that it was time to switch.
Have not yet used MS Code for C++, but will eventually do so.

MS Visual Studio has improved over the years, but setting up a project creates a lot of baggage. One issue for me copying a large code base for a project to another project.
A simple copy is problematic. Best practice is to copy the [C++] file and set up a new project from scratch, which is a pain.

[noddy]

. . .

ms code is a brilliant editor, i love how its identical on windows and linux, has made jumping between platforms all the time quite easy.

Agreed. I had been using the Spyder editor for Python, but now that Anaconoda includes MS Code as part of their distribution, I decided to have a look and was impressed by the ease of setup and use and as you noted, it is OS agnostic. As the most recent release of Spyder was having issues, I decided that it was time to switch.
Have not yet used MS Code for C++, but will eventually do so.

MS Visual Studio has improved over the years, but setting up a project creates a lot of baggage. One issue for me copying a large code base for a project to another project.
A simple copy is problematic. Best practice is to copy the [C++] file and set up a new project from scratch, which is a pain.

yes - template driven project creation is nasty.

c and c++ tend to be gcc based for me, so its all command line based tools for the actual build chain - this made visual code perfect as <ctrl ~> fires up a little internal terminal with command line history - very simple to trigger all the tasks.

ditto python of course - tho the builtin debugger works sweetly.

in my world visual studio is purely for c# and web apps , maintaining those build files is a nightmare of hideous XML so the template thing is a necessary evil.

life is too short to learn transitory xml dialects!

[Mr. Perfect]

So how many of these languages do you have to learn before you are the real deal.

Just reviewing my current situation, I am doing fine with html and css, but the more I read it looks like I will have to learn php, C# and javascript at some point. It's very strange, you have to assess which ones are worth the time and in what order.

[noddy]

to do an entire web app you need.

webbrowser : html, css, javascript
webserver: csharp, sql

php is an alternative to csharp, their are also alternatives to sql however you can mostly ignore all that for the moment.

[Mr. Perfect]

Fascinating.

[noddy]

hah.

this is a tiny subset of the layers upon layers the modern computing world is built from.

essentially each of those layers represents a different problem with a different skillset.

html is the actual content being presented to the world
css is layout and styling of that content.
javascript automates changes in those, also, gluing the html to the csharp.
csharp generates and controls which bits of those are visible to who and also hides away special logic that does calcuations or propriety information.
sql manages the data being presented and collected.

each of those is typically written as a virtual machine using c or c++

these then generate assembly language

this is then converted into machine code that the cpu actually uses to trigger the various transistor pathways.

[Mr. Perfect]

I can almost follow that. I do believe that I will probably take this up as a serious thing, this business app I am working on is for the money in many ways, but it seems like being able to do this will allow me to bring so many of my schemes into reality.

[Typhoon]

. . .

ms code is a brilliant editor, i love how its identical on windows and linux, has made jumping between platforms all the time quite easy.

Agreed. I had been using the Spyder editor for Python, but now that Anaconoda includes MS Code as part of their distribution, I decided to have a look and was impressed by the ease of setup and use and as you noted, it is OS agnostic. As the most recent release of Spyder was having issues, I decided that it was time to switch.
Have not yet used MS Code for C++, but will eventually do so.

MS Visual Studio has improved over the years, but setting up a project creates a lot of baggage. One issue for me copying a large code base for a project to another project.
A simple copy is problematic. Best practice is to copy the [C++] file and set up a new project from scratch, which is a pain.

yes - template driven project creation is nasty.

c and c++ tend to be gcc based for me, so its all command line based tools for the actual build chain - this made visual code perfect as <ctrl ~> fires up a little internal terminal with command line history - very simple to trigger all the tasks.

ditto python of course - tho the builtin debugger works sweetly.

Ah yes, that is the way to do it.

in my world visual studio is purely for c# and web apps , maintaining those build files is a nightmare of hideous XML so the template thing is a necessary evil.

life is too short to learn transitory xml dialects!

As I don't work with C# or web apps, I've had to deal with XML only on a few rare occasions. A proper pain in the neck.

[Miss_Faucie_Fishtits]

Someone has to say it. Damn Javascript and the web designers that use it to wreak havok.......

https://pjmedia.com/vodkapundit/the-bulls-web/

[Nonc Hilaire]

I play a mobile game and someone is cheating using html5 scripts. Is there a way to view and capture the activity to send to the devs?

[noddy]

if you have a windows pc you can use https://www.wireshark.org/ to record all activity on your network.