Egypt

[monster_gardener]

Since Israel has been accused of being a de facto Apartheid country due to the grievances of the Palestinians (this accusation has encompassed both the Palestinians in occupied territories as well as the Palestinians who are citizens of Israel), this time it is worth mentioning the plight of the Coptic Christians who are citizens of Egypt, since their situation can surely be compared to de facto Apartheid, if these articles below are correct.

What's your point, HAL? That Israel is just as bad as extremist groups in Egypt who harass Copts? Glad you're finally admitting how bad Israeli treatment of Palestinians is.


Oh and note that, according to the law at least, Egyptian Copts have way more rights and freedoms that the Palestinians do under Israeli occupation.

Thank you Very Much for your post, Ibrahim.

Oh and note that, according to the law at least, Egyptian Copts have way more rights and freedoms that the Palestinians do under Israeli occupation.

Maybe....... But how much good does that do them......... NOT THAT MUCH...... And its getting worse..........

Smart thing for both Copts, Palis, Syrians etc. to do is Execute Plan E for Evacuation...... Go somewhere else and try not to turn it into an nearly unsupervised Insane Asylum for Religious Fanatics like much of the Middle East/Holey Land is.........

[Hans Bulvai]

.


There is nothing racist in saying that Western-style democracy as we know it fits with Arab culture. It doesn't and this is starting to show in Egypt, Libya and Tunisia.
Not to say that they cannot form a tye of government that they can live under. What that looks like, remains to be seen.

(Reuters) - Opponents and supporters of Egyptian President Mohamed Mursi clashed in Cairo on Friday in the first street violence between rival factions since the Islamist leader took office.

Islamists and their opponents threw stones, bottles and petrol bombs, and some fought hand-to-hand, showing how feelings still run high between the rival groups trying to shape the new Egypt after decades of autocracy, although the streets have generally been calmer since Mursi's election in June.

The Health Ministry said 110 people had sustained light to moderate injuries, state media reported.

A government is in place, but Islamists and liberals are at loggerheads over the drafting of the new constitution, which must be agreed before a new parliament can be elected.

.

.

Democracy AND Religion are scams to fool the mass

Elite has ruled since 10 thousand of years, will rule next million year

What changes with the time, as civilization progresses and mass becomes more sophisticated, is, how to fool the mass and keep them happy

In ancient time, the elite, scared the mass (all poor paysants) with hell, religion .. on all those cathedrals you see man with swords and and .. social contract was, you (poor) guys keep quite, suffer, in return you go to paradise (if not, you go to hell)

When religion lost the power to scare (and fool) the mass

The corrupted "inheritory" elite, the Monarchy .. relying on Religion (Church) to keep control of the mass were wiped out

What happened is

" the nature of elite changed "

the challenge for the NEW ruling elite, was, again, how to fool the mass into voluntary, peaceful obedience

That challenge was solved in form of "perceived" democracy

The art ruling the mass became how to fool the mass into thinking they in driver seat

Well,

Hans ,

In west, you think you decide, but in reality you decide nothin


Re Egypt ,

Things not done yet

Egyptian and Arab uprising has it's root not in religious affairs

Egyptians and Arabs are not revolting because they want Hijab or freedom to fast or no belly dancing

They want West out of Middle East to shape their life and culture entering the modern age the way they want .. they want to follow Iranians path but according to their own culture

Morsi is an American agent, to fool the mass into thinkin things changin .. it ain't

But

Egyptian Joe no durian, he not buyin

Change only will come when Arabs find their Khomeini .. their Ahmadinejat

Why not start with محمد مصطفى البرادعى‎ .. he a modern, Nobel Price winner, top top world class politician, experienced in subject @ hand, proven no American crony, independent, willing and able to serve guy

why not start with him ? ? ?

This Morsi American agent to fool you guys



.

Just that you know Azari. I don't vote. Never have and never will. Don't believe in it, other than choosing where we go for lunch.

And, Mursi... We call him Mike Merci!

[Parodite]

(Reuters) - Opponents and supporters of Egyptian President Mohamed Mursi clashed in Cairo on Friday in the first street violence between rival factions since the Islamist leader took office.

Islamists and their opponents threw stones, bottles and petrol bombs, and some fought hand-to-hand, showing how feelings still run high between the rival groups trying to shape the new Egypt after decades of autocracy, although the streets have generally been calmer since Mursi's election in June.

By this standard Europeans are unfit for democracy, as the street battles either with the police or against rival political factions in Greece, Spain, etc. demonstrate. Better go back to absolutist monarchy, democracy can't be imposed on violent and sectarian European culture.

Ha! So when Reuters reports in exact same fashion on clashes of this sort in Spain or Greece... it implies in turn that rival factions in Egypt might as well give up on democracy and stay peacefully put under whatever boot?

By such a standard you'd be unfit for a reasoned argument and better go back to fundamentalist Islamism where there is no need for rational argument or judgement. Keeps haunting you it seems.

You've already said I'm an irrational monkey on numerous occasions, so we know your opinion on that subject, but beyond that little outburst of yours your comment is nonsensical. My observation of the racial double-standard which certain people apply to political violence demonstrates that drawing these conclusions against any group would be irrational. Yet here your bigotry against Muslims and racism against Arabs has caused you to read this obvious meaning as a direct attack on your beloved and inherently-superior Europeans!

I couldn't have scripted a funnier response for you.

You at least try to be funny, that's progress.

In the mean time I'll just do you a service and help you understand what happened here.

1. Ibrahim quotes a Reuters text that is totally neutral, merely reporting facts.

2. Ibrahim then comments starting with; "By this standard Europeans are unfit for democracy [...]", which is totally nonsensical because in the Reuters text there is nothing that suggests or implies any standard of anything at all. Ibrahim is reading it all between the lines.

3. Rhapsody recognizes immediately Ibrahim’s habit of reading all kinds of things between the lines. To explain the foolishness of this particular case, he shows that you might then as well turn it around and produce an equally idiotic claim when reading between the lines in a similar and as factual report on riots in Spain or Greece.

I am just putting you on notice that what you read between the lines can be replaced with any other dreamed up opinion, prejudice or voodoo psychology resulting in the same nonsense that you have a habit of producing.

And indeed I called you all kinds of names, just for fun when you started calling me names during another infamous exposition of your in-between-the-lines skills, where your reflexive brainstem is doing the reading and your vocal cords the barking. What goes around comes around.

[Marcus]

. . 3. Rhapsody recognizes immediately Ibrahim’s habit of reading all kinds of things between the lines. . .

I am just putting you on notice that what you read between the lines can be replaced with any other dreamed up opinion, prejudice or voodoo psychology resulting in the same nonsense that you have a habit of producing.

And indeed I called you all kinds of names, just for fun when you started calling me names during another infamous exposition of your in-between-the-lines skills, where your reflexive brainstem is doing the reading and your vocal cords the barking. What goes around comes around.

Amen, amen, and amen . . .

[Jnalum Persicum]

.


Am with Ibrahim .. he pretty much most knowledgeable here .. he knows what he talkin,
has deep knowledge of subject @ hand

Many others, pretty much, Googling folks


.

[Marcus]

Am with Ibrahim .. he pretty much most knowledgeable here .. he knows what he talkin,
has deep knowledge of subject @ hand

Many others, pretty much, Googling folks.

For the record, ALI, I at least don't dispute Ib's ability to express his opinion. We all do that, and in that regard, Ib has a lot to offer. What's offensive about Ib is not particularly what he thinks but rather the way he handles disagreement and contrary opinion.

To be fair, Ib isn't alone though he may be the worst offender. We're all likely are guilty of bad manners from time to time.

[Jnalum Persicum]

.

.

Am with Ibrahim .. he pretty much most knowledgeable here .. he knows what he talkin,
has deep knowledge of subject @ hand

Many others, pretty much, Googling folks.

.

For the record, ALI, I at least don't dispute Ib's ability to express his opinion. We all do that, and in that regard, Ib has a lot to offer. What's offensive about Ib is not particularly what he thinks but rather the way he handles disagreement and contrary opinion.

To be fair, Ib isn't alone though he may be the worst offender. We're all likely are guilty of bad manners from time to time.

.

Hear you loud and clear, Marcus

but


you gotto take the good with the bad . . that's the way those folks are ,

Turks cousin of Attila & Kublai Khan .. have their own peculiarity .. a bit dry & rough

Each time, I meet a Turkish friend and shake hand, for a week or two all my wrist
and fingers hurt

otherwise solid folks, very solid

otherwise ,

Ibrahim deeply knowledgeable, not only in ME space, but European and American and Chinese subjects .. if he posting in thread, I must watch my postings

Unfortunately Turks have always felt in competition with Pomegranates .. need not 2B .. Turks and Pomegranates can compliment each other


.

[Ibrahim]

I couldn't have scripted a funnier response for you.

....

In the mean time I'll just do you a service and help you understand what happened here.

1. Ibrahim quotes a Reuters text that is totally neutral, merely reporting facts.

2. Ibrahim then comments starting with; "By this standard Europeans are unfit for democracy [...]", which is totally nonsensical because in the Reuters text there is nothing that suggests or implies any standard of anything at all. Ibrahim is reading it all between the lines.

It was a reference to people arguing that political violence in Egypt means that democracy will not work there, or that the revolution there was a mistake/failure. This was argued several times in this thread and across the "Muslim World" subforum. My observation that there is also frequent political violence in Europe is an obvious rebuke to this entire theory and double-standard, not an indictment of Europe as you comically assumed.

3. Rhapsody recognizes

Here's where things broke down for you. Your perception is suspect at best.

[Marcus]

For the record, ALI, I at least don't dispute Ib's ability to express his opinion. We all do that, and in that regard, Ib has a lot to offer. What's offensive about Ib is not particularly what he thinks but rather the way he handles disagreement and contrary opinion.

To be fair, Ib isn't alone though he may be the worst offender. We're all likely are guilty of bad manners from time to time.

Hear you loud and clear, Marcus

but

you gotto take the good with the bad . . that's the way those folks are ,

Turks cousin of Attila & Kublai Khan .. have their own peculiarity & syle .. a bit rough

Each time, I meet a Turkish friend and shake hand, for a week or two all my wrist and finger hurts

otherwise solid folks, very solid

otherwise ,

Ibrahim deeply knowledgeable, not only in ME space, but European and American and Chinese subjects .. if he posting in thread, I must watch my postings . .

Well, I agree and disagree, ALI. I agree that Ib has a lot to offer . . have found myself agreeing with him many, many times in the past and before I put him on "Ignore" in self-defense.

I disagree that we must take the good with the bad . . life's too short to spend time wading through lavender or trying to pick up a turd by the clean end. No excuse for the kind of abuse Ib offers those who see things differently than does he.

You've likely taken more abuse for your views than anyone else here, and never once can I recall you descending to calling someone the kind of names or indulging in the kind of abuse so common to Ib's posts. You may tell someone that their idea is bullshit or similar, but that's a far cry from calling the guy a liar. Your style has greatly informed the way I think about a lot of things. Ib, on the other hand, is on "Ignore." You simply can't pick grapes from a bramble, nor do I wish to try. Their very style makes their views suspect in my mind.

[Hans Bulvai]

.


Am with Ibrahim .. he pretty much most knowledgeable here .. he knows what he talkin,
has deep knowledge of subject @ hand

Many others, pretty much, Googling folks


.

Knowledge has to come from somewhere.

Nothing wrong with googling if it is in the pursuit of knowledge or more appropriately, expanding one's horizons.
One has to read between the lines these days. The challenge is not so much to find the truth (nearly impossible) but to find the lie.

[Jnalum Persicum]

.

.


Am with Ibrahim .. he pretty much most knowledgeable here .. he knows what he talkin,
has deep knowledge of subject @ hand

Many others, pretty much, Googling folks


.

Nothing wrong with googling if it is in the pursuit of knowledge or more appropriately, expanding one's horizons.

One has to read between the lines these days. The challenge is not so much to find the truth (nearly impossible) but to find the lie.

.

Using Google, for historical facts and truth, has limitations

Google an instrument of western, colonial powers .. tightly used for "manufacturing" fact and history to fool Joe

A good test, Hans, would be, GooGling about Israel, Zionist, Palestine, (last 100 yrs) Iraq, (last 100 yes) Iran and and and .. GooGling of British policy towards Arab lands after fall of Ottoman and and and

You will see, important fact omitted, or, reported from western point of history

Wiki an instrument of manufacturing, bending, history and facts

In that sense, to judge whether GooGle right or wrong, one should have deeper independent knowledge of facts and history



.

[Hans Bulvai]

.

.


Am with Ibrahim .. he pretty much most knowledgeable here .. he knows what he talkin,
has deep knowledge of subject @ hand

Many others, pretty much, Googling folks


.

Nothing wrong with googling if it is in the pursuit of knowledge or more appropriately, expanding one's horizons.

One has to read between the lines these days. The challenge is not so much to find the truth (nearly impossible) but to find the lie.

.

Using Google, for historical facts and truth, has limitations

Google an instrument of western, colonial powers .. tightly used for "manufacturing" fact and history to fool Joe

A good test, Hans, would be, GooGling about Israel, Zionist, Palestine, (last 100 yrs) Iraq, (last 100 yes) Iran and and and .. GooGling of British policy towards Arab lands after fall of Ottoman and and and

You will see, important fact omitted, or, reported from western point of history

Wiki an instrument of manufacturing, bending, history and facts

In that sense, to judge whether GooGle right or wrong, one should have deeper independent knowledge of facts and history



.

That's why I say you should look for the lie rather than the truth.
Is it not true that history repeats itself? Can we therefore not use the events of today to get an accurate idea of yesterday?
Brits killing Iraqis in the 1920's same as them killing them today. Churchill used gas on them way before there was even a Saddam.

And I agree, Google no good.

[Parodite]

I couldn't have scripted a funnier response for you.

....

In the mean time I'll just do you a service and help you understand what happened here.

1. Ibrahim quotes a Reuters text that is totally neutral, merely reporting facts.

2. Ibrahim then comments starting with; "By this standard Europeans are unfit for democracy [...]", which is totally nonsensical because in the Reuters text there is nothing that suggests or implies any standard of anything at all. Ibrahim is reading it all between the lines.

It was a reference to people arguing that political violence in Egypt means that democracy will not work there, or that the revolution there was a mistake/failure. This was argued several times in this thread and across the "Muslim World" subforum. My observation that there is also frequent political violence in Europe is an obvious rebuke to this entire theory and double-standard, not an indictment of Europe as you comically assumed.

Oops, I stand corrected. Understand now you didn't refer to the Reuters text itself but only used it to make your point, referring to double standards exposed in the thread or even in the section as a whole! Probably was reading too much between the lines myself. Apologies. Good news is we actually argue the same thing then.

So I'll now scan the thread and section for those double standards instead.

[full scan]
.
.
.
.
.
scanning...........
.
.
.
.
.
scanning..........
.
.
.
.
.
scanning...........
.
.
.
.
.
[/full scan]

No virusses found. Rootkit scan recommended.

[Mr. Perfect]

It was a reference to people arguing that political violence in Egypt means that democracy will not work there,

Some of us think democracy is working "there" exactly as planned.

or that the revolution there was a mistake/failure. This was argued several times in this thread and across the "Muslim World" subforum.

Mistake for whom, though. Certainly not the west. Radical forces no longer have the cover of the good cop bad cop routine. Big boon for the west.

My observation that there is also frequent political violence in Europe is an obvious rebuke to this entire theory and double-standard, not an indictment of Europe as you comically assumed.

Here's where things broke down for you. Your perception is suspect at best.

For some reason I would really rather live in Europe than the ME, so perceive what you want.

[HAL9000]

Since Israel has been accused of being a de facto Apartheid country due to the grievances of the Palestinians (this accusation has encompassed both the Palestinians in occupied territories as well as the Palestinians who are citizens of Israel), this time it is worth mentioning the plight of the Coptic Christians who are citizens of Egypt, since their situation can surely be compared to de facto Apartheid, if these articles below are correct.

What's your point, HAL? That Israel is just as bad as extremist groups in Egypt who harass Copts? Glad you're finally admitting how bad Israeli treatment of Palestinians is.


Oh and note that, according to the law at least, Egyptian Copts have way more rights and freedoms that the Palestinians do under Israeli occupation.

I NEVER said Israel is perfect.

It's just your distortion of the nature of the injustice the Palestinians are incurring when you say it is de facto Apartheid. Until the new wars with Palestinians, opinion polls indicated that of the 1.5 million Palestinian citizens of Israel, only about 30 % had negative opinions of Jews overall. IF Israel had real Apartheid against Palestinian Israelis the way the Egyptians are treating their Christian minority, then the Palestinian Israelis would have had a much more negative opinion about Jews long before the new eruption of additional tensions with the Palestinians during the last 12 years.

IF Palestinians in Gaza and West Bank had recognized Israel in some form (even Turkey recognized Israel in 1949), then they would be in very good shape, in fact they would have their own state. The word Apartheid is normally applied to the actual citizens of a country. Israel never annexed West Bank. There are illegal Jewish settlements that comprise 6 % of West Bank, but the Jewish settlements can be dismantled just as the ones in Gaza were dismantled. So it is not accurate to apply the word Apartheid to the occupied territories that are never claimed to be Israel.

To summarize,

1) the Israeli Palestinians get mistreated primarily due to the perception (mostly correct) that they are not sympathetic to the existence of Israel. In Israel there far less discrimination against Israeli Palestinians in any area compared to Egyptian situation against Copts. But my point about Egypt was not to emphasize the fact that Israel is less bad than Egypt.Rather, my point was the plight of the Christian Egyptian citizens who get discriminated in a de facto Apartheid situation. Furthermore this is on the basis of religion. If they convert to Islam like Omar Sharif did, their social status will improve dramatically.

I want to see as much sympathy for Egyptian Christians in this forum, just as in the case of Palestinians. Where is it?

2) Israel is NOT anti-Islam, the discrimination is only a political situation against THOSE Palestinians (most of them unfortunately) who don't want to recognize Israel.

The Druze quasi-Muslims (they are not considered mainstream Muslims, but still influenced by Islam somewhat) in Israel have very high status and equalitywith Jews, as evidenced by the fact that there are many Druze officers and generals in the Israel Defense Forces, and this is despite the war! This is because as soon as Israel was created in 1947, the Druze who are in Israel instantly supported Israel and the Jews. I admit that recently the Druze are also turning pro-Palestinian and things will go bad with the Druze also, but at least it started very well with the Druze people in Israel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Druze

In the following video there is a Druze pilot in Israeli Air Force. This guy has access to top secret Israeli electronics and he can bring down Israel if he gives away the secrets to enemies of Israel, but he is trusted because he is a friend of Jews:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_uYzcCjN8I

Another video about Druze soldiers in Israel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5uGiqBs ... re=related

Previously I mentioned the Circassian Muslim Israeli community that have full equality with the Jews, as evidenced by this video where pious Circassian Muslim Imam who says good things about Israel in the video with subtitles in English, he speaks better Hebrew than me:):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-vXD84Pv0I

In this video Israel gives its support to the Circassians who are protesting (in Israel) against the Russian genocide that killed 1.5 million Circassians:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywOPoKS3Eks

More Circassian videos from Israel, they have as much freedom as in Turkey, because they like Jews:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZoQaOLQ ... ure=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b1L_poT5Hs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CRfl4jwzmE

[Ibrahim]

Since Israel has been accused of being a de facto Apartheid country due to the grievances of the Palestinians (this accusation has encompassed both the Palestinians in occupied territories as well as the Palestinians who are citizens of Israel), this time it is worth mentioning the plight of the Coptic Christians who are citizens of Egypt, since their situation can surely be compared to de facto Apartheid, if these articles below are correct.

What's your point, HAL? That Israel is just as bad as extremist groups in Egypt who harass Copts? Glad you're finally admitting how bad Israeli treatment of Palestinians is.


Oh and note that, according to the law at least, Egyptian Copts have way more rights and freedoms that the Palestinians do under Israeli occupation.

I NEVER said Israel is perfect.

Right. But now you're comparing it to extremist persecution of Copts in Egypt, which is quite the concession.

It's just your distortion of the nature of the injustice the Palestinians are incurring when you say it is de facto Apartheid.

I don't need to distort anything, the situation is well-documented, by Israeli Jews, Arabs, and other international writers and observers.

Until the new wars with Palestinians, opinion polls indicated that of the 1.5 million Palestinian citizens of Israel, only about 30 % had negative opinions of Jews overall. IF Israel had real Apartheid against Palestinian Israelis the way the Egyptians are treating their Christian minority, then the Palestinian Israelis would have had a much more negative opinion about Jews long before the new eruption of additional tensions with the Palestinians during the last 12 years.

This transparent propaganda ignores the attitudes of, and systematic abuses of, Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank.

IF Palestinians in Gaza and West Bank had recognized Israel in some form

Why should they legitimize Israeli theft and aggression, and allow Israel the complete victory that eluded them for 50 years?

1) the Israeli Palestinians get mistreated primarily due to the perception (mostly correct) that they are not sympathetic to the existence of Israel.

Because Israelis stole their land treat them like animals, and some Israelis abuse them daily.

In Israel there far less discrimination against Israeli Palestinians in any area compared to Egyptian situation against Copts.

Yes, Israeli abuse is (mostly) confined to the Palestinians who haven't given in to their conquest of the region.

I want to see as much sympathy for Egyptian Christians in this forum, just as in the case of Palestinians. Where is it?

There is nobody here defending abuse of Copts, but you are defending Israeli aggression, hence the pushback. Besides you don't care about Copts, they are only useful insofar as they help you defend Israel. Spengler types are the same with their talk of Copts and Kurds.

2) Israel is NOT anti-Islam,

Anyway why are we talking about this? If you wanted to post still-more pro-Israeli material then why not do so in the Israel thread?

[Hans Bulvai]

Some are calling this report bs.

Egyptian police torture 88, kill 34 under President Morsi: Rights report

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent ... nt-Mo.aspx

In a recent report published by the Cairo-based Nadim Centre for the Rehabilitation of Torture Victims, 34 cases of death, 88 cases of torture, and seven cases of sexual assault at the hands of Egyptian police were recorded during Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi's first 100 days in office.

In the time period cited, the report recorded a total of over 247 cases of alleged police brutality.

The report states that at least 34 people were killed by police in police stations, prisons and in public areas. According to the report, the killings were generally the result of live ammunition used to disperse protesters.

[TurkishJew]

There is nobody here defending abuse of Copts, but you are defending Israeli aggression, hence the pushback. Besides you don't care about Copts, they are only useful insofar as they help you defend Israel. Spengler types are the same with their talk of Copts and Kurds.

Anyway why are we talking about this? If you wanted to post still-more pro-Israeli material then why not do so in the Israel thread?

You are mistaken: I care a lot about Copts. It is the Israeli government that failed to address the issue because of the fear of provoking Eygpt, and if I were the Israeli government, I would have risked trouble and I would have supported the Copts openly. Your argument is always the same: since the Israeli crimes are so much greater than what is going on elsewhere, Copts not important for you. Your last line of defense, of course, is to associate me with Spengler.

[Jnalum Persicum]

.


Some are calling this report bs.

Egyptian police torture 88, kill 34 under President Morsi: Rights report

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent ... nt-Mo.aspx

In a recent report published by the Cairo-based Nadim Centre for the Rehabilitation of Torture Victims, 34 cases of death, 88 cases of torture, and seven cases of sexual assault at the hands of Egyptian police were recorded during Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi's first 100 days in office.

In the time period cited, the report recorded a total of over 247 cases of alleged police brutality.

The report states that at least 34 people were killed by police in police stations, prisons and in public areas. According to the report, the killings were generally the result of live ammunition used to disperse protesters.


.

.

Hans ,

horse same horse as B4

they just re-saddled it



.

[Ibrahim]

Some are calling this report bs.

Egyptian police torture 88, kill 34 under President Morsi: Rights report

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent ... nt-Mo.aspx

In a recent report published by the Cairo-based Nadim Centre for the Rehabilitation of Torture Victims, 34 cases of death, 88 cases of torture, and seven cases of sexual assault at the hands of Egyptian police were recorded during Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi's first 100 days in office.

In the time period cited, the report recorded a total of over 247 cases of alleged police brutality.

The report states that at least 34 people were killed by police in police stations, prisons and in public areas. According to the report, the killings were generally the result of live ammunition used to disperse protesters.

No doubt abuses are occurring. The police, military, and other internal security services were torturing and killing people for Mubarak (and Bush II) for decades, and after the Iraqi example of what happens when you summarily fire everybody who worked for the previous regime most of these guys still have jobs.

It's also unknown how much of the security apparatus is under Morsi's control, or old Generals, or what. Not to say that this is "ok," or Morsi isn't involved in any abuses, but its not exactly shocking and it would be hasty to conclude that this is representative of Morsi's domestic policies. Though it may turn out to be, which would be sad.

[Hans Bulvai]

Some are calling this report bs.

Egyptian police torture 88, kill 34 under President Morsi: Rights report

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent ... nt-Mo.aspx

In a recent report published by the Cairo-based Nadim Centre for the Rehabilitation of Torture Victims, 34 cases of death, 88 cases of torture, and seven cases of sexual assault at the hands of Egyptian police were recorded during Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi's first 100 days in office.

In the time period cited, the report recorded a total of over 247 cases of alleged police brutality.

The report states that at least 34 people were killed by police in police stations, prisons and in public areas. According to the report, the killings were generally the result of live ammunition used to disperse protesters.

No doubt abuses are occurring. The police, military, and other internal security services were torturing and killing people for Mubarak (and Bush II) for decades, and after the Iraqi example of what happens when you summarily fire everybody who worked for the previous regime most of these guys still have jobs.

It's also unknown how much of the security apparatus is under Morsi's control, or old Generals, or what. Not to say that this is "ok," or Morsi isn't involved in any abuses, but its not exactly shocking and it would be hasty to conclude that this is representative of Morsi's domestic policies. Though it may turn out to be, which would be sad.

He is involved. Mubarak with a beard they are calling him.

Interior ministry aims to recreate Mubarak-era emergency law: Rights activists

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent ... -emer.aspx

President Morsi considering new emergency laws: Justice Minister


State-owned daily Al-Ahram sparked nation-wide debates last week after it leaked a controversial new draft law entitled “protection the revolution’s gains." The circulating articles, which bore a striking similarity to Egypt’s notorious 30-year-long emergency law, critics said threatened human rights and freedoms.

In the wake of the critical backlash by human rights activists and the media, Minister of State for Legal and Parliamentary Affairs Mohamed Mahsoub quickly denied the existence of the draft law, saying it was “merely incorrect media speculation” on his Twitter account.

Nevertheless, his statement did not close the topic, as the alleged draft legislation was almost identical to an earlier law entitled the “protection of society from dangerous individuals” presented to President Mohamed Morsi by the Ministry of Interior, alongside five other restrictive laws, in August this year

...

I thought Tantawi retired..

We were 'forced' to reactivate the emergency law: Tantawi

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent ... w-Tan.aspx

Egypt’s military ruler Field Marshall Hussein Tantawi has justified his recent decision to reactivate and revamp unpopular emergency laws, saying that the current security crisis in Egypt was behind the move.

“No one among us wants a state of emergency, but the security crisis Egypt has faced recently, forced us to do this,” Tantawi said on Monday. “Now you have wives being kidnapped in the street right in front of their husbands.”

Tantawi added the state of emergency will be ended as soon as the security vacuum improves, stressing that it will take the combined efforts of the Egyptian people, along with the security forces to bring back stability to the country.

Egypt has been struggling with a public safety crisis and an increase in crime after the police forces famously deserted the streets at the height of the uprising against Mubarak on 28 January.

[Ibrahim]

Some are calling this report bs.

Egyptian police torture 88, kill 34 under President Morsi: Rights report

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent ... nt-Mo.aspx

In a recent report published by the Cairo-based Nadim Centre for the Rehabilitation of Torture Victims, 34 cases of death, 88 cases of torture, and seven cases of sexual assault at the hands of Egyptian police were recorded during Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi's first 100 days in office.

In the time period cited, the report recorded a total of over 247 cases of alleged police brutality.

The report states that at least 34 people were killed by police in police stations, prisons and in public areas. According to the report, the killings were generally the result of live ammunition used to disperse protesters.

No doubt abuses are occurring. The police, military, and other internal security services were torturing and killing people for Mubarak (and Bush II) for decades, and after the Iraqi example of what happens when you summarily fire everybody who worked for the previous regime most of these guys still have jobs.

It's also unknown how much of the security apparatus is under Morsi's control, or old Generals, or what. Not to say that this is "ok," or Morsi isn't involved in any abuses, but its not exactly shocking and it would be hasty to conclude that this is representative of Morsi's domestic policies. Though it may turn out to be, which would be sad.

He is involved. Mubarak with a beard they are calling him.

Interior ministry aims to recreate Mubarak-era emergency law: Rights activists

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent ... -emer.aspx

President Morsi considering new emergency laws: Justice Minister


State-owned daily Al-Ahram sparked nation-wide debates last week after it leaked a controversial new draft law entitled “protection the revolution’s gains." The circulating articles, which bore a striking similarity to Egypt’s notorious 30-year-long emergency law, critics said threatened human rights and freedoms.

In the wake of the critical backlash by human rights activists and the media, Minister of State for Legal and Parliamentary Affairs Mohamed Mahsoub quickly denied the existence of the draft law, saying it was “merely incorrect media speculation” on his Twitter account.

Nevertheless, his statement did not close the topic, as the alleged draft legislation was almost identical to an earlier law entitled the “protection of society from dangerous individuals” presented to President Mohamed Morsi by the Ministry of Interior, alongside five other restrictive laws, in August this year

...

I thought Tantawi retired..

We were 'forced' to reactivate the emergency law: Tantawi

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent ... w-Tan.aspx

Egypt’s military ruler Field Marshall Hussein Tantawi has justified his recent decision to reactivate and revamp unpopular emergency laws, saying that the current security crisis in Egypt was behind the move.

“No one among us wants a state of emergency, but the security crisis Egypt has faced recently, forced us to do this,” Tantawi said on Monday. “Now you have wives being kidnapped in the street right in front of their husbands.”

Tantawi added the state of emergency will be ended as soon as the security vacuum improves, stressing that it will take the combined efforts of the Egyptian people, along with the security forces to bring back stability to the country.

Egypt has been struggling with a public safety crisis and an increase in crime after the police forces famously deserted the streets at the height of the uprising against Mubarak on 28 January.

Well, you should be happy then. Arabs need a dictator. Now its the Wolfman instead of Dracula.

[Parodite]

There probably are too many Arab Breiviks for things to resolve any time soon.

[Ibrahim]

There probably are too many Arab Breiviks for things to resolve any time soon.

Dust of your copy of his manifesto and see if there is any overlap. Cute/ironic effort to shoehorn that comparison in there though.

[Parodite]

There probably are too many Arab Breiviks for things to resolve any time soon.

Dust of your copy of his manifesto and see if there is any overlap. Cute/ironic effort to shoehorn that comparison in there though.

Wasn't sure if you actually are aware of the Arab Breivik to exist... FYI; he does.