South Africa

[noddy]

most are depressed and traumatised, all have horror stories.

to clarify my point earlier - lawless gangs who kill with impunity, will absolutely kill for racist reasons, they will also kill for a nice pair of shoes.

to pin this stuff on racism, or homophobia or any of the other middle class western obsessions is missing the glaring point - they have reasons to kill anyone they feel like killing.

yeah, I'm agreeing with all that.

I'd do one better (as you've already pointed out) they are more likely to kill for a pair of shoes than for whatever racial fantasies go on in their heads.

But I just wanted to point out that it's a failed place on all sorts of levels starting with a lack of cooperation.

wasnt thinking you didnt, just felt my previous speil wasnt concise enough or clear enough.


afaik, before the Europeans started slaughtering everybody, the Zulu were busy doing it.

their is no "white people" on any level, their is still scots and english and french and germans.

"white people" is an interesting thing in many ways - for all that people laugh at its generic minimalist culture, it does represent whats left when tribes give up what makes them unique.

spengler put it down to some american mysticism, which was wank, same thing happened in canada and australia and new zealand with far less fanfare.

the EU is an attempt to make it happen back in the motherland, from what I can tell their is no real way of forcing it to happen.

the other thing they face is something that crosses all boundaries "white people" donty really give a lavender about eachother anyway, its not like the rich are falling over themselves to make the rednecks lives amazing.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

well yeah, I can't forget about all that love the Boer have for the English.

I don't know anything about whiteness-- my personal conception was always it was shorthand for peoples spanning Europe, Northern Africa, into Western Asia and a good majority of India.

Since then, I've learned this is impossibly racist and that I need a taxonomy more stringent than Carlton Coon's old one, and that whiteness is reserved for the Germans/Nordics but also a indelible sin carried by several other groups if advantageous--- which includes the Japanese and Koreans sometimes.

Yet for some reason the Spanish/Portuguese are immune from this same whiteness...whole thing is starting to sound like a long-term Visigoth conspiracy.

[Typhoon]

The Grauniad | Vigilante groups form in South Africa to tackle looting and violence

"Miss me yet?"

~ Konstabel Els

[Simple Minded]

The Grauniad | Vigilante groups form in South Africa to tackle looting and violence

"Miss me yet?"

~ Konstabel Els

I always love the subtitles on these types of articles whether from South Africa, Chicago, New York City or Portland:

Officials warn citizens not to take law into own hands to protect homes and business from protests

Really? You call that advice or wisdom or even remotely helpful?

A more honest subtitle would be "We fucked up everything we tried so much so that now you're all well and truly f**ked!"

I've been waiting since childhood to get on the defense stand and utter the famous line from the classic cowboy movies:

"The man needed killin!"

[noddy]

would redneck americans in a town full of meth and gun violence prefer a chinese occupation that made the stats look better with millitary police and mass incarceration ?

[Simple Minded]

would redneck americans in a town full of meth and gun violence prefer a chinese occupation that made the stats look better with millitary police and mass incarceration ?

You're talking about the Biden plan right?

Gimme a town name or a zip code, and we'll send a CNN journalist there to conduct a poll....

back to the above post, you gotta love the officials who state "Please die quietly at the hands of violent but peaceful protesters without creating any messy video we will have to later address and deny it exists. It will make it easier for me to get re-elected again!"

yet another data point where the altruistic concept of "we" takes a backseat to the selfish concept of "me."

When are "we" gonna get better?

[Simple Minded]

would redneck americans in a town full of meth and gun violence prefer a chinese occupation that made the stats look better with millitary police and mass incarceration ?

you do make a good point regarding the similarities between SA and the Antifa/BLM riots in big, blue Merkin cities. The urban rednecks of color don't trust the white man's system of law (or science, medicine, mathematics, etc). Meanwhile after over a year of the MSM saying (including our current VPOTUS) that Trump is a racist and that no one should trust the vaccine he is developing, because it can't be created quickly and still be safe, CNN/MSNBC are now hammering republicans/whites/right wingers for not taking the vaccine due to their ignorance. Meanwhile stats show that white people are 3 times more likely than POC's to trust the vaccine enough to get vaccinated. Oddly enough, race which was all important a year and a half ago, is no longer mentioned in connection to the vaccine.

I'd be surprised if you tune into Merkin MSM anymore than I tune into Strayan MSM, but it is a thing of beauty to watch the flip flopping and contradictory statements leading to obvious results that the speakers just could not anticipate at the time they were speaking.

Then: Joe Biden "Republicans want to put y'all back in chains! Trump is a racist!" Kamala "Don't trust the Trump vaccine!" Biden is a racist and a misogynist!"

now: Joe and Kamala "Everybody needs to get vaccinated! Not getting vaccinated is the kiss of death!"

kinda like a bizarre soap opera in real time.......

[noddy]

sorry.

what group of anyones, anywhere would prefer a hostile external force to protect them from themselves

south africa is a shithole but it has been a shithole for a long time, including during the previous management., its not particularly controversial to point out why the rabid masses of poor people dont have a civil society upbringing.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

According to the Maddison Historical Statistics Project, the country's prosperity (relative to the US) has been declining continuously since the colonial period, with the nadir hitting between 1988 and 2002.

However, there are poorer countries in Africa who've developed a political spectrum complete with civil societies, a functional party system, yadayadayada...

[Simple Minded]

yeah, sayin my I can't behave differently because I can find a reason not to behave differently cause of my collective herd past is the ultimate excuse en masse. I suspect Fred's parents buying that excuse during his formative years greatly increases the probability of Fred using it on a regular basis as an adult.

completely overlooks the fact that every single member of any herd, except those who are blind and deaf have free will to determine their own behavior at any given moment. unless of course one thinks that some herd animals don't have that mental or moral capacity. insert the r-word here!

personally, I would never trust the individual who resorts to that reasoning as a rationale for their actions. then again, I've never had to deal with the white community, the black community, the asian community, the liberal community, the conservative community, the American community, the European community, etc. I have only dealt with individuals my whole life. those who wish to play god don't have the same "privilege" that I enjoy!!!!! in the game of numbers, only herds exist.

shooting arrows at a country, race, county, zip code, etc. while ignoring that the group is comprised of individuals strikes many people today as high minded, but IMSMO seems completely dehumanizing. I'm getting too old to be chic.

but I suppose that is the point of modern, chic philosophy, there are no individuals, no concept of personal responsibility, no free will, we're all collective herd animals whose individual behavior is determined by genetics or environment. "We're all victims now!"

seems a very pessimistic philosophy to me.

that said, the multi generational effects of previous colonialism is all beside the point of my earlier post.

the call for "Fred" to die peacefully for the common good of my re-election, law and order statistics, and/or my legacy rather than muck up the works by selfishly defending himself was my point. always seem like a headline from The Onion.

Oddly enough, only the rich and powerful who have personal security are those who make the claim that the little guy should choose "suicide by mob" for "the common good."

[Simple Minded]

conflating the US and South Africa even more:

oddly enough, the same rioters who claim they have no personal responsibility, go to the trouble of wearing masks and dressing identically to their partners-in-crime.

I think I respect the unmasked rioters more. at least they have the attitude of "Yeah! That was me and I'm willing to pay the price!"

I can work with those guys!

[noddy]

nar, the whole identity politics, personal responsibiolity angle isnt cutting it for me, I dont see any of that in a concrete way, your looking at it in a very modern american way

their is 60 million people in SA and im sure the magority of them are solid, the problem is that power vacuums, post opression and crippling poverty throw up lawless gangs in every culture on the planet... america seems to have a few of those itself of late.

western europe has descended into that several times over the last few millenia, it just happens.

their is nothing to fix, its something that will happen until a strong enough leader pops up to start playing whack a mole on these gangs with the full support of the locals, half the problem they have is the apartheid system played whack a mole on the innocents so they dont have the stomach for it .. yet.

that person cant be invented, nor brought in from external sources.

[Simple Minded]

nar, the whole identity politics, personal responsibiolity angle isnt cutting it for me, I dont see any of that in a concrete way, your looking at it in a very modern american way

I really don't have a choice, I'm a victim of my past life experience! We all are! Someone needs to create better ink blots!!!!!

I do agree with you that civilization wanes and waxes, and I never suggested the cure, best to just let it run it's course.

I also think it is a generational cycle. In some eras, when parents ask their kids "Why did you throw a brick thru the department store window?" the parents accept the excuses of "Cause I'm oppressed!" or "Cause the Smith boys were doing it!"

My parents didn't accept those excuses, they wanted to oppress me even more than society wanted to oppress me! Boom, I'm still a victim of my past!

In a conversation with an 80+ year old friend from Ireland the other day, concerning politics he said "I'm too old to give a shite! Let these highly educated young kids figure it out! That's what we had to do when we were their age!"

I thought, well said!

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

The 'R' word missing is Recrimination--

can't get anything organized when recriminations are thick on the ground.

[Simple Minded]

The 'R' word missing is Recrimination--

can't get anything organized when recriminations are thick on the ground.

You mean like: "I wanted to be an anarchist, but da man is re-criminalizing me!" or

"I was just shopping near the riots when I was re-criminalized by my oppressors!" or

Every time me or one of my brothers were caught vandalizing, my parents re-criminalized us!"

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

their is 60 million people in SA and im sure the magority of them are solid

False, only 39% are solid. 5% are liquids, and a vast 55% of 'em are gases.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

The 'R' word missing is Recrimination--

can't get anything organized when recriminations are thick on the ground.

You mean like: "I wanted to be an anarchist, but da man is re-criminalizing me!" or

"I was just shopping near the riots when I was re-criminalized by my oppressors!" or

Every time me or one of my brothers were caught vandalizing, my parents re-criminalized us!"

I mean like

watching South Africa kill itself is a world-wide spectator sport and Race War is a simplified way of observing just how much of it doesn't work without the strong figure noddy's talking about.

Whatever racial issues are in SA, the world is more invested in them.

And it isn't just racist rightwingers. There are a lot of leftists round the world then who treat South Africa as a crown jewel, if only the kulaks would stop ruining things!

I said it a while back, after the collapse of the USSR, South Africa was a huge morale boost with Mandela and the ANC and all of that.

===========================

Even saying that South Africa is "racial" or "non-racial" is very much tied into the old right/left wing fight.

There is a book by one Vladimir Shubin called, "ANC: A View From Moscow" which gets into the relation.

Shubin was for many years the key contact of the ANC and SACP at the Central Committee of the CPSU and now a specialist in the history of Soviet ties with these organizations.

Shubin writes that "The relationship between the USSR and South Africa, especially with the ANC and it allies, had a profound though contradictory influence on developments in South Africa...one has to admit that certain aspects of Soviet society such as leader-worship, dogmatism, lack of broad discussions before taking crucial decisions, limitations in inner-party democracy were not the best features of emulate. But even if some borrowing of these characteristics did take place, the influence was negligible and was undoubtedly outweighed by the positive effects of co-operation with Moscow."

To Shubin, the Soviet's greatest contribution to the elimination of apartheid was "not the material assistance but the encouragement of non-racialism in the ANC."

[Simple Minded]

So the good news is the big rub might not be reducible to only skin color. The bad news is it may be so complex that only the locals know what is driving their actions.

South vs. North, or Africa vs. Europe might just reduce down to local turf wars among cousins and/or various tribes.

Rugged Individualism at it's best or worst?

This is not good news at all for the Western MSM.

We still haven't addressed the issue of the noble selfless soul willing to commit "suicide by mob" in order to promote the "common good."

Where is Jussie Smollet when we need him? If Chicago doesn;t put up a dozen statues in his honor it's cause they're racist!!!

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

Or the good news is the problem is what it always has been, wretched street crime; but the bad news is that everyone in charge is off in lala land and cannot & will not do anything about the problem.

[Simple Minded]

Or the good news is the problem is what it always has been, wretched street crime; but the bad news is that everyone in charge is off in lala land and cannot & will not do anything about the problem.

Could be. All cultures is local.

https://quillette.com/2021/07/16/why-vi ... th-africa/



Joe's high-minded altruistic ideals are Fred's opportunity to loot! Also known as the Portlandian Proclamation or the Chicago Constitution!

"Is SM talking about the politicians or the civilians?"

[noddy]

https://mg.co.za/news/2021-07-16-we-wil ... ramaphosa/

Ramaphosa stressed on Friday night that instigators of the “assault on our democracy” would be dealt with. “We will extinguish the fires that are raging. And we will stamp out every last ember of this fire,” the president said.

“We will identify and act against those who lit the flame, and those who spread it,those who are still attempting to spread it. We will find those who instigated this violence. They will be held accountable for their deeds, because we will not allow anyone to destabilise the country and to get away with it.”

He also referred to this week’s events as a deliberate attempt of insurrection, calling the attacks on businesses and the disruption of supply routes an act of “economic sabotage”.

“It is clear now that the events of the past week were nothing less than a deliberate, a co-ordinated and well-planned attack on our democracy. The constitutional order of our country is under threat,” the president said.

“These actions are intended to cripple the economy of our country, cause social instability and severely weaken, or even dislodge, the democratic state, using the pretext of a political grievance.”

Instigators had sought to manipulate the poor and vulnerable for their own gain, Ramaphosa added.

But, he noted,the violence had failed to gain popular support.

so, it appears they are going to stop ignoring it.

[Simple Minded]

https://mg.co.za/news/2021-07-16-we-wil ... ramaphosa/

Ramaphosa stressed on Friday night that instigators of the “assault on our democracy” would be dealt with. “We will extinguish the fires that are raging. And we will stamp out every last ember of this fire,” the president said.

“We will identify and act against those who lit the flame, and those who spread it,those who are still attempting to spread it. We will find those who instigated this violence. They will be held accountable for their deeds, because we will not allow anyone to destabilise the country and to get away with it.”

He also referred to this week’s events as a deliberate attempt of insurrection, calling the attacks on businesses and the disruption of supply routes an act of “economic sabotage”.

“It is clear now that the events of the past week were nothing less than a deliberate, a co-ordinated and well-planned attack on our democracy. The constitutional order of our country is under threat,” the president said.

“These actions are intended to cripple the economy of our country, cause social instability and severely weaken, or even dislodge, the democratic state, using the pretext of a political grievance.”

Instigators had sought to manipulate the poor and vulnerable for their own gain, Ramaphosa added.

But, he noted,the violence had failed to gain popular support.

so, it appears they are going to stop ignoring it.

The power of the press! Imagine the good they could do if they just reported events without assigning blame. POC's in Merka wouldn't be afraid of the Orange Man's vaccine!!!!

It will be interesting to see if the powers that be in SA can re-establish confidence in management or if a new management team needs to be installed before the investors return. I heard one business owner in Portland OR say that he called 12 insurance companies to get quotes and all 12 decided to no-quote when he told them the business was located in Portland.

Could be a new form of real estate marketing, selling or buying entire cities, counties, or nations!

Atlas Shrugged is more popular than ever. Just not in book form or on the big screen.

[Simple Minded]

If Ramaphosa was a Merkin politician, he would have had a different PR campaign:

eFTLKWw542g

[noddy]

https://mg.co.za/news/2021-07-16-we-wil ... ramaphosa/

Ramaphosa stressed on Friday night that instigators of the “assault on our democracy” would be dealt with. “We will extinguish the fires that are raging. And we will stamp out every last ember of this fire,” the president said.

“We will identify and act against those who lit the flame, and those who spread it,those who are still attempting to spread it. We will find those who instigated this violence. They will be held accountable for their deeds, because we will not allow anyone to destabilise the country and to get away with it.”

He also referred to this week’s events as a deliberate attempt of insurrection, calling the attacks on businesses and the disruption of supply routes an act of “economic sabotage”.

“It is clear now that the events of the past week were nothing less than a deliberate, a co-ordinated and well-planned attack on our democracy. The constitutional order of our country is under threat,” the president said.

“These actions are intended to cripple the economy of our country, cause social instability and severely weaken, or even dislodge, the democratic state, using the pretext of a political grievance.”

Instigators had sought to manipulate the poor and vulnerable for their own gain, Ramaphosa added.

But, he noted,the violence had failed to gain popular support.

so, it appears they are going to stop ignoring it.

The power of the press! Imagine the good they could do if they just reported events without assigning blame. POC's in Merka wouldn't be afraid of the Orange Man's vaccine!!!!

It will be interesting to see if the powers that be in SA can re-establish confidence in management or if a new management team needs to be installed before the investors return. I heard one business owner in Portland OR say that he called 12 insurance companies to get quotes and all 12 decided to no-quote when he told them the business was located in Portland.

Could be a new form of real estate marketing, selling or buying entire cities, counties, or nations!

Atlas Shrugged is more popular than ever. Just not in book form or on the big screen.

as i understand it the angry mobs are the magority zulus who just had their corrupt leader jailed, so its as much like trump supporters invading the parliament house as it is the BLM stuff, perhaps a nice mix of the two.

and this is also why it was tricky to react to it, angry folks upset that their team didnt win, the proper procedures need to be followed to make sure its obvious the repercussions arent team based but law based.

atlas long since shrugged - my state is full of white and black flight, which is why im vaguely aware of the politics over there.

you can always spot a saffer (south african) .. they are depressed and the pstd is all over their faces.

[Simple Minded]

if it wasn't cruel and inhuman, I'd like to plug into your USB port and download a few years of American MSM and Politician's blather and get your summary.

The MSM and political party, that, told us for over a year that the BLM/Antifa riots that destroyed over $2 billion of property and resulted in dozens of deaths, either never existed or that they were mostly peaceful, now claim that the January 6th DC protests and trespassing are the greatest threat to Democracy since the civil war. Me thinks they have been looking for an excuse to surround the capitol with razor wire and armed troops for many years. The Blue union and Red union are very aware of their unpopularity. The elections of Obama and Trump were proof.

The same MSM and political party, that, for over a year have been saying "don't trust the racist Orange Man or the vaccine his minions are trying to create" (which they said would not happen for years), are now claiming that white redneck, republicans are the biggest impediment to getting everyone vaccinated. In reality, the POC's have been listening carefully and heeded their advice, so POC vaccination stats are 1/4-1/3 of non POCs.

I heard a great comment the other day. "if Biden was actually correct, it would be wise for the Dems to enlist Trump to convince the white, redneck, Trump supporting, anti-vaxxers to get "his vaccine!" Trump would love to get on the airways and hawk his anti-COVID legacy. Plus Biden et al could claim this as proof of being a uniter and working together."

It has been a bizarre world for 10-20 years for anyone who has spent even a couple hours a week tuned into the American MSM and political parties.

It appears the Republican Party en masse has been raptured with Mr. P.

Yes, indeed, some zip codes in the US have much in common with South Africa. Most of the John Galt's in those areas have voted with their feet.

It could be part of huge federal plan (as per Catherine Austin Fits) for urban renewal. Kinda like rotating your crops on farmland.