Cryptozoology

[Mr. Perfect]

I fun topic for me, makes certain establishment types uncomfortable but occasionally we find something headscratching. Which then makes one ask, what else is out there. There has to be a population of these, how does a whole population evade detection.

Or it could be a hoax.

https://www.greatfallstribune.com/story ... 634379002/

Was it a wolf, some type of hybrid, or a creature that hasn't been seen in Montana since the Ice Age?

On May 16 a lone wolf-like animal was shot and killed on a ranch outside Denton. With long grayish fur, a large head and an extended snout, the animal shared many of the same characteristics as a wolf; but its ears were too large, it's legs and body too short, its fur uncharacteristic of that common to a wolf.

So far, the exact species is a mystery

So what was it? At this point, no one is 100 percent sure.

More: Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks' official response

"We have no idea what this was until we get a DNA report back," said Bruce Auchly, information manager for Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks. "It was near a rancher's place, it was shot, and our game wardens went to investigate. The whole animal was sent to our lab in Bozeman. That's the last I ever heard of it."

[noddy]

the magority of australian wolves (dingoes) have domestic dog genes in them now due to feral interbreeding.

so for me this is completely unsurprising and the most likely outcome.

[noddy]

https://academic.oup.com/jmp/article/43/2/187/4931242

Abstract
The prospect of creating and using human–animal chimeras and hybrids (HACHs) that are significantly human-like in their composition, phenotype, cognition, or behavior meets with divergent moral judgments: on the one side, it is claimed that such beings might be candidates for human-analogous rights to protection and care; on the other side, it is supposed that their existence might disturb fundamental natural and social orders. This paper tries to show that both positions are paradoxically intertwined: they rely on two kinds of species arguments, “individual species arguments” and “group species arguments,” which formulate opposing demands but are conceptually interdependent. As a consequence, the existence of HACHs may challenge exactly those normative standards on which the protection of HACHs may eventually be based. This ethical paradox could constitute the ultimate source of the “moral confusion” that some authors have suspected HACHs to provoke.

this will certainly get interesting - its only a matter of time!

[Mr. Perfect]

the magority of australian wolves (dingoes) have domestic dog genes in them now due to feral interbreeding.

so for me this is completely unsurprising and the most likely outcome.

In North America wolves generally kill coyotes and dogs on sight.

[noddy]

the magority of australian wolves (dingoes) have domestic dog genes in them now due to feral interbreeding.

so for me this is completely unsurprising and the most likely outcome.

In North America wolves generally kill coyotes and dogs on sight.

its the same everywhere - no healthy pack will tolerate territory incursion or competition.

wolves arent all about the healthy packs and alphas - their are single males forming adhoc packs with wild dogs, their are beta females sneeking out for non sanctioned sex on the sly.

i have to choose between a secret species of large predators that has remained undiscovered for centuries despite the density of human activity OR that a lone wolf shagged a staffy.

[Mr. Perfect]

Anything is possible. Just this is the first of this kind and that is the background information. The odds would appear to be fairly close in each case.

[Simple Minded]

Cryptozoology is a fascinating subject, for those with an open mind and a sense of wonder. For others it is just "nothing to see here so I'm not going to look" or "those people are mistaken or crazy." Big world out there and most of us live very localized lives.

one of my favorite Bigfoot books:
https://www.amazon.com/Locals-Thom-Powe ... ls+bigfoot

habitation stories are also interesting:
https://www.amazon.com/Impossible-Visit ... dpSrc=srch

[noddy]

virgin wild forest in the USA that could hide large cryptos.



hey, id love to be wrong but I really cant see it, no matter how much I open my mind :/

[Simple Minded]

virgin wild forest in the USA that could hide large cryptos.



hey, id love to be wrong but I really cant see it, no matter how much I open my mind :/

that cause you fit into the "nothing to see here so I'm not going to look group" bro!

That is a completely understandable opinion...... especially, if one gets their information off the internet. Now imagine those maps with the same years, with the theme of "parts of the US that people actually set foot in recently."

In my opinion, it is much the same as enjoying science fiction, or claiming that god exists based on personal experience. I don't claim it's fact, just possible and enjoyable to ponder.

If you come on over here some time and fly over the US in a plane, or better yet, rent a car you might get a different perspective.

Or even read some accounts of people who claim to have had encounters.

[noddy]

Id enjoy being wrong.

still, no time for wishy washyness - as a betting man id put the odds on cryptos larger than a house cat in america at less than 1%.

I can read maps, i can look at satellite pictures, i have done lots of reading and university study on habitat sizes of large mammals and minimum viable populations - i dont need to walk around america to know the rules - i accept its possible i might be wrong.. 1% type possible.

ive spent half my life in forest and wilderness, i know what different populations densities look like and feel like, outside electronics and computing its most of my focus.

regrowth forest woven with forestry roads is what it is, their is nothing special about the american version per se, we all have it, its all a sad subset of what it used to be.

come to australalia - i can show you a wilderness that doesnt have another human for 100's of km!

we might have a crypto in the tasmanian widlerness (marsupial tiger) but as forestry rips through the old growth and finds nothing - its looking unlikely :/

[Mr. Perfect]

Those maps are incomprehensibly bogus.

[Mr. Perfect]

- I don't believe in bigfoot. At all. 4 years ago every other show on cable was about bigfoot, now you can't find one. It comes and goes as a fad. Now, not hating on squatches. My brothers best friend swears on his life he saw one, clearly.

- I believe there are significant animals yet to be discovered, mostly in the ocean and jungles.

[noddy]

Those maps are incomprehensibly bogus.

they are not maps of forest, they are maps of unlogged forest.

[noddy]

- I don't believe in bigfoot. At all. 4 years ago every other show on cable was about bigfoot, now you can't find one. It comes and goes as a fad.

- I believe there are significant animals yet to be discovered, mostly in the ocean and jungles.

i agree with this - especially the oceans.

the amount of unexplored jungle is depressingly small now, im sure their is a few things still lurking.

[Mr. Perfect]

Then the maps are meaningless, in many places a 20 year old growth is impenetrable to most humans on foot, and we never go in there.

The wooded growth in this video could be no more than 30 years old and no fun to go walking around in.

UFoQ1S1n0vE

Point being if I was a squatch there is no shortage of desirable habitat still in the lower 48. It's hard to find any kind of animal in there.

[noddy]

hiding is not the same as living in a sustainable population - a huge hairy humanoid cant spend its whole life crawling through the thick undergrowth hiding from humans succesfully for centuries and never get properly caught looking for food, or sleeping, or any of the ways we see brown bears for example.

they/it wouldnt find living in tangled regrowth any easier than we would, thats small critter territory.

anyway. Ill be pleasantly surprised if any of this is true, and i have had my honest opinion on the chances.

---

i know their are eyewitness accounts, which a cynic might say is suspiciously linked with tourism in small towns or book sales, id rather a dead body or skeleton or something tangible

i hold no judgement or opinion on those that do believe in these things - maybe they do know more than me, maybe they are just a tad more romantic than i am.. who knows.

[Mr. Perfect]

True, but. There is no shortage of squatch territory in the lower 48.

I do not believe in squatch but hold nothing against most who do.

[Simple Minded]

Good discussion. I can agree with a 1% chance they exist. Odds are they don't. I hope they do.

Eyewitness accounts are fascinating, at least to me. Especially those who testify that "I've spent decades in the woods hunting, fishing, camping, and for decades I said that anyone who believed Bigfoot exists is nuts. Then one day I saw one."

Human opinion...... those who have no knowledge who don't believe, and those who have no knowledge who do believe....

What if the reason we can't find proof is that they are smarter than us?

That and the fact that most humans never venture more than 200 yards from a paved surface.

[Simple Minded]

True, but. There is no shortage of squatch territory in the lower 48.

I do not believe in squatch but hold nothing against most who do.

I agree. Land unfrequented in this country is vast. Don't forget the swamps and deserts.

According to the internet.... there have been sightings in every state except HI.

[Simple Minded]

http://www.bigfootencounters.com/classics/classics.htm

If it is on the internet..... it must be true.... rite?

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

Forget population densities for survival; what would population densities as extinction took them out look like?

I can't think of a single land animal species, above a certain trivial size, whose decline would precede human observation or direct interference of their habitat.

But I can think of pandemic-type events which could roughly do the same job...
a forest dwelling animal of a small, antique population, with a long gestation/maturation processes could easily collapse if humans [or other conditions] encroach within a x miles range of their dwelling.

But would they collapse to single-event Elvis-sightings before Fred, Bob and Ted saw them while fly fishing?

[Simple Minded]

Forget population densities for survival; what would population densities for extinction look like?

Good point. That why I moved 600 miles away from my nearest blood relatives.

good fences make good neighbors and distance is the best fence.

[Typhoon]

Forget population densities for survival; what would population densities for extinction look like?

According to the predictions of experts, we should already be long extinct.

[Simple Minded]

Forget population densities for survival; what would population densities for extinction look like?

According to the predictions of experts, we should already be long extinct.

Bigfoot experts or human experts?

[noddy]

That and the fact that most humans never venture more than 200 yards from a paved surface.

most barely leave the home->work->shops cycle.

mining explorers, hunters, campers , university researchers and marginal farmers are all fairly active in whats called "wilderness"

their is a meme somewhere about how the rise in cellphone camera/videos has sucked the life out of the alien and cryptid market because "pictures or it didnt happen" is the new attitude