On conservative and libertarian stupidity

[Simple Minded]

Do you ever wonder what things would be like if the Republican Party that exists in reality was the Republican Party of your ideals?

I asked you first.

Imagine if you spent as much time whipping the existing members of the Republican Party into "ideological shape" as you did castigating hemorrhoids and those who are not in lockstep with your ideas.........

"GIMME 50 IDEOLOGICAL PUSHUPS YOU SQUISHY RINO SCUMBAG! WHASSA MATTER DIDN'T YUR MOMMA GIVE YOU ENUFF LUV AS A CHILD?"

No RINO's, no squishies, no deserters, no contrarians sabotaging the Republican Party during the voting process ....a party that acts like a majority when it is a majority...... it would be glorious!

Sweep in front of your own door..... get the beam out of your own eye first.

Ok. So what's your plan.

Sure. I know this will be hard for you to follow, so I will use small words and type slowly.

1. Enroll in a reading comprehension class. Nothing too difficult needed. 8th grade level should be fine.
2. Re-read my posts of the last few days.

let me summarize:
a. You say you want to reduce the Federal Govt by 75%. Really? Hmmm, uh, er, you just might want to tell someone. Specifically, you might want to tell the people who vote! I can't remember the last time I heard a Republican mention smaller govt or capping spending. I suspect the Repubs might not share your goals. You recently noted the Repubs seem bent on losing elections. Limbaugh recently noted the Repubs had no party platform and no message. You might want to mention to your party members that than in order to remain a viable party, they should actually try to win elections.

b. Get a plan. Be specific. Use numbers. "I want to reduce the Federal Govt. by 75%! I will reduce each department's budget by X% per quarter. The following depts. of ___________ will get 2x cuts, the following depts. of ___________ will be eliminated completely. We will cap next years spending at 80% of last years tax revenue." I've never heard either party use facts or numbers during one of their so called debates.

c. If the MSM or one of "the others" calls you a racist, don't take the bait. Stay on message. "I want to reduce the Federal Govt. by 75%!"

d. If the MSM or one of "the others" wants to talk about the gender identification specifics of LBTQZTRF, don't take the bait. Stay on message. "These are not Federal Govt. problems. I want to reduce the Federal Govt. by 75%!"

e. If the MSM or one of "the others" wants to talk about how more than 2 types of public bathrooms are needed, don't take the bait. Stay on message."These are not Federal Govt. problems. I want to reduce the Federal Govt. by 75%!"

f. If the MSM or one of "the others" wants to talk about the murder rate in Chicago or homelessness in San Francisco, don't take the bait. Stay on message. "These are not Federal Govt. problems. I want to reduce the Federal Govt. by 75%!"

g. Don't spit on the Tea Party. Embrace them.

h. Stop blaming the people outside of your party for the problems of your party. Thats like Chicago blaming Illinois for gun violence in Chicago. Even you should be able to understand this logic. Stop using "We don't suck as much as the alternative!" as the reason for the existence of your party.

I know this is a lot for you to mentally digest. But it is a start. When in doubt. Get your party members to shut up and call one of the popular conservative commentators I mentioned previously, and ask them "What should my party say next week?"

Maybe split the Republican Party into the Libertarian, the Capitalists, and the Neo-Republican parties and see how the next election pans out. 300,000,000+ people, might be time to drop the two sizes fits all semi-collective, semi-communist mentality. Libertarian and Capitalist factions just might draw more than you think from the Dems.

I hope this helps. If not, as you noted "It's over."

[Parodite]

Right on SM. Just leave the lefty crazed mobs and MSM click-baiters cook in their own juices and stick to the message(s) of policy. Trump by nature is a one-man show and a source of hilarious controversy. He won not only because crooked Hillary lost, but also because the repubs had (and have) no clear platform and voice. They have the inspirational power of wall paint communicating platitudes.

I earlier coined the term "unprincipled moralism" (tm). This is the core of the repub weakness. Which is why the principled a-moralist Trump could take over the party. The emperor without cloths found cloths without emperor.

[Simple Minded]

Right on SM. Just leave the lefty crazed mobs and MSM click-baiters cook in their own juices and stick to the message(s) of policy. Trump by nature is a one-man show and a source of hilarious controversy. He won not only because crooked Hillary lost, but also because the repubs had (and have) no clear platform and voice. They have the inspirational power of wall paint communicating platitudes.

I earlier coined the term "unprincipled moralism" (tm). This is the core of the repub weakness. Which is why the principled a-moralist Trump could take over the party. The emperor without cloths found cloths without emperor.

More succinctly well said than what me said. Thanks for the kind words. Just my opinion based on decades of observation.

In American politics beating your wife with an open hand rather than a clenched fist or foreign object has become the moral high ground according to the Dems and the Repubs.

I am the smallest of minorities, no strategic reason to pursue my approval. But, IMSMO, the 2008 Dem primary and the 2016 Repub primary show the country considers none of the above to be a reasonable alternative.

This"unprincipled moralism" deserves highlighting.

Ya know Parodite, I've never tried the "Cause the alternative sucks more than I do!" sales pitch to promote myself. Maybe it is time for me to do so. Seems reasonable to assume at least half the planet is below average. If you get a chance, run that thru your probabilistic computer for me.

Hell, if I think about it, I'm probably a better person than 50.9% of the rest of the planet!

[Parodite]

SM, maybe I found him. Or it is a look-alike. It lives in my head though... I swear!

In search of the unprincipled moralist (tm)

If we individuals are all but hubs in an inter-subjective human network seeking as much as possible truth for everybody by virtue of consensus derived from sharing empirical (sensory) data, we cant be sure how much of that truth is truly objective or even a truthful representation of the objective. So whether I solipsistically believe my opinions and conclusions are true or that I am not alone in my perceptions when >1 others turn out to agree... doesn't make much of a difference. "My" opinion has as much or as little value as "our" opinion or the ideas of any number of people with differing views. It is the nature of the inter-subjective beast: when things appear more similar we "agree", when they appear more different we "disagree". Agree and disagree are just two chairs occupied by different guests.. and the party never stops.

Especially when we cannot be sure we look at the same thing however, like a possible future effect of a policy or if we talk concepts and definitions that just hang in the air without legs... inter-subjective consensus is something unlikely to occur easily, and when it happens the chance that it will survive very long is remote - as opposed to looking at the same blue car in the street which creates fast and durable consensus that there is a blue car over there to recon with. When the next moment or day it is gone, no problem either. Consensual inter-subjective reality remains in tact. If we like it or not.

People who see a car in the street that nobody else sees have a problem though. Yet this is what unprincipled moralists do. They don't see it either in fact, but decided it is necessary to believe it is there nevertheless. It has a number plate that reads Objective (alias meta-physical) Morality.

They believe that without this invisible Car of Morality the traffic will end up in mayhem full of accidents caused by the sinful nature of real drivers in real cars. This not only is an insult to real drivers who in general want to avoid crashing into others, it also is likely to create more mayhem in the street! Imaginary cars keep you distracted from the road and other participants. It can cause real accidents, if not unnecessary traffic jams. It blurs the senses.

The GOP is still home of many such unprincipled moralists because they care less about traffic safety or efficiency and more about invisible moral cars.

There are of course unprincipled moralists of different types like those who don't see one invisible car but a whole fleet of them with an army of invisible drivers, imaginary police officers and even virtual judges with one Supreme Judge presiding over all and operating from behind the veil that separates our inter-subjective reality from objective reality, or assumed meta-physical truth. There are so many road accidents and systemic traffic jams and bombs going off even (because people do get frustrated.. road rage is all too common) here that it underscores the point. Beware the unprincipled moralists!

[Simple Minded]

Parodite,

Good points. Simplifying all that you posted, reminds me of two quotes:
1. All is flux.
2. People don't respond to reality, they respond to what they perceive as reality.

I would imagine that both parties in the US know that elections are won by vote quantity, so appealing to the lowest common denominator with fear, hate, doom n gloom, etc., rather than actually presenting facts and having an intelligent discussion is a more sound strategy to gaining power.

Over here, the US is immense, and wildly diverse. To think a 20 year old Dem or Repub has much ideology in common with a the 60 year old of the same party is a bit of a stretch. Same for the person of the same age and party who live 200 miles apart.

In my mind, I think both parties have become mostly anachronisms. Like vacuum tube TVs. Technology could easily displaces both parties. But some of the emotions, fear of others are very stable. Base emotions often have lifespans of decades or centuries. Jews-Muslims, Catholics-Protestants for example.

Add in the fear of their base deserting them and it gets even more precarious. I recall a conservative commentator stating the if the Repubs ever took on the official policy of "It is none of our business if a woman has an abortion." they would rapidly become the majority party.

I also recall a liberal commentator stating the if the Dems ever took on the official policy of "It is none of our business if a person buys and/or owns a gun." they would rapidly become the majority party.

Both viewpoints made sense to me.

I suspect the new strategy of using facts to make your case and being honest about your intentions would take several election cycles to bear fruit. The first few times they were tried, they would not be believed. I suspect also that only new blood will make the approach even attemptable. Incumbents have too much history to allow them to turn over a new leaf in the public eye.

[Parodite]

I suspect the new strategy of using facts to make your case and being honest about your intentions would take several election cycles to bear fruit. The first few times they were tried, they would not be believed. I suspect also that only new blood will make the approach even attemptable. Incumbents have too much history to allow them to turn over a new leaf in the public eye.

Indeed. Most likely such a change will take sum time. Even in the most optimistic scenario. And there are reasons to be pessimistic, it might indeed be "not in my life time" as Mr.P. fears. Which is just another way of saying we are loosing for the foreseeable future and there is no reason to believe we not also loose beyond that. It is admission of defeat, laying on your back with limbs up in the air and a meaningless little gun in your hand: that "last line of defence" against your rogue gvt.

The GOP is fractured and only God knows what is left of it when Trump has to throw away that borrowed coat. Mr.P. is so without hope that he believes an armed revolt is near, or the only solution.

The Democratic assault post-Trump is definite. All Dems need and want is being re-assured of their righteousness by being in power and dominate the cultural narrative free of charge. While they move back to the center again and at least in word represent the haunted US middle class in the red midlands to win back what they lost to Trump. They will have learned something from crooked Hillary's failures and Obama's spineless support of deep state intelligence and surveillance agencies while protecting the 2008 Banksters and their Dem henchmen from law and law enforcement. (One wonders what it is that the Icelanders understood the US citizens didn't post 2008).

It is also possible that some external misfit takes over the Dems just as Trump took over the GOP. It could be a progressive demagogue closet Stalinist, but also a brilliant charismatic centrist democrat who is pragmatic rather than ideological, immune to the Trump Derangement Syndrome and never playing along with the identity-race-click baiting business.

[Simple Minded]

Indeed. Most likely such a change will take sum time. Even in the most optimistic scenario. And there are reasons to be pessimistic, it might indeed be "not in my life time" as Mr.P. fears. Which is just another way of saying we are loosing for the foreseeable future and there is no reason to believe we not also loose beyond that. It is admission of defeat, laying on your back with limbs up in the air and a meaningless little gun in your hand: that "last line of defence" against your rogue gvt.

The GOP is fractured and only God knows what is left of it when Trump has to throw away that borrowed coat. Mr.P. is so without hope that he believes an armed revolt is near, or the only solution.

The Democratic assault post-Trump is definite. All Dems need and want is being re-assured of their righteousness by being in power and dominate the cultural narrative free of charge. While they move back to the center again and at least in word represent the haunted US middle class in the red midlands to win back what they lost to Trump. They will have learned something from crooked Hillary's failures and Obama's spineless support of deep state intelligence and surveillance agencies while protecting the 2008 Banksters and their Dem henchmen from law and law enforcement. (One wonders what it is that the Icelanders understood the US citizens didn't post 2008).

It is also possible that some external misfit takes over the Dems just as Trump took over the GOP. It could be a progressive demagogue closet Stalinist, but also a brilliant charismatic centrist democrat who is pragmatic rather than ideological, immune to the Trump Derangement Syndrome and never playing along with the identity-race-click baiting business.

The last ten years have been fascinating. As noddy pointed out, it is almost always at most a 55%-45% election with much less than 50% of the potential voters actually voting. Either party would be thrilled by a 10% margin of victory and would declare it a landslide. Usually it is closer to 3-5% margin margin of victory. Sounds to me like the much the voting public views them as two different brands of chocolate ice cream rather than principled parties with real differences in principle.

I suspect Mr. Perfect's despair comes mostly from his realization in the last two years that the Republican Party that exists has little in common with the Republican Party of his ideals. Obviously the Repubs don't give a damn what he thinks anymore than they care what I think. He needs to start his own party. Six parties would be a refreshing start, if each were honest and promoted their core beliefs.

2008 & 2016 were historic. Obama and Trump came out of nowhere and both parties were gobsmacked. It could easily happen again. Hilary Inc. restricting entry to the 2016 Dem POTUS primary probably created some permanent enemies in that church.

My ideal would be that a plain talking "Average Joe" like Victor Davis Hanson would emerge. Could not care less which party Joe belonged to. Doubt either party would support someone like VDH. Average Joe realizes that we will all never agree on everything, but that most people (everyone not seeking power over another person or group in fact) have much, much more in common than in opposition. But I also suspect all those people are too smart to mistake a cesspool for a swimming pool.

I remember a Warren Buffet quote: "The best part about being rich is you don't have to work with people you don't like."

Average Joe can make $30-100k a year dealing with people who for the most part will say "please," "thank you," and "I really appreciate your help." Stepping out of that world to enter the world of politics (professional arguers) would immediately cause me to doubt their integrity.

[crashtech66]

Most excellent leaders don't want the pay cut and headache of being POTUS, plus the anal exam modern vetting process disqualifies otherwise supremely well-qualified individuals. Consider some great historical leaders, and whether they could survive the modern election process. It seems to me that nowadays the only persons qualified and wishing to become POTUS must border on the sociopathic to survive the process.

[Parodite]

Most excellent leaders don't want the pay cut and headache of being POTUS, plus the anal exam modern vetting process disqualifies otherwise supremely well-qualified individuals. Consider some great historical leaders, and whether they could survive the modern election process. It seems to me that nowadays the only persons qualified and wishing to become POTUS must border on the sociopathic to survive the process.

I would say the current climate makes becoming POTUS not an attractive thing for any sane person. But who knows.. in the post-Trump era things might cool down enough for relative normalcy to return.

I'm impressed by former Canadian PM Stephen Harper, a pragmatic centrist who could do as a democrat or republican, a genuine "triangulator" He was on Ben Shapiro's Sunday Special Ep 28: Stephen Harper.

One could wish for somebody like him to pull the Dems out of their mad state of mind back to sanity. With a Rand Paul brand of Repubs pushing for fiscal responsibility. People who could work together and act as rational representatives of all US citizens. But both sides of the sane center need an army of soldiers in politics and culture to make it happen. Trump is a one time one man show transitional figure soon to be forgotten.

[crashtech66]

The Democrats appear to me to continue moving to the left and to pander to (loud and influential) fringe constituencies. That and the continued polarization of the electorate has left me no choice but to rejoin the GOP.

But I guess that is not on topic.

I'd like to see a more pragmatic type of libertarian party emerge that simply says we need to incrementally de-escalate the growth of gov and debt without taking such radical positions on everything (like total drug legalization) but even that is a really hard sell. Hell, the budget is mostly entitlements at this point, we're addicted to free money being pulled out of thin air by our government. I don't know how you charmingly sell someone on the fact that they need to do more with less, work harder for less, learn to think of the future instead of the now, etc. It's a non-starter as far as I can see. When the General Welfare clause started being interpreted as government being able to give benefits to individuals arbitrarily, it was only a matter of time before it all went down the tubes.

[Simple Minded]

The Democrats appear to me to continue moving to the left and to pander to (loud and influential) fringe constituencies. That and the continued polarization of the electorate has left me no choice but to rejoin the GOP.

But I guess that is not on topic.

I'd like to see a more pragmatic type of libertarian party emerge that simply says we need to incrementally de-escalate the growth of gov and debt without taking such radical positions on everything (like total drug legalization) but even that is a really hard sell. Hell, the budget is mostly entitlements at this point, we're addicted to free money being pulled out of thin air by our government. I don't know how you charmingly sell someone on the fact that they need to do more with less, work harder for less, learn to think of the future instead of the now, etc. It's a non-starter as far as I can see. When the General Welfare clause started being interpreted as government being able to give benefits to individuals arbitrarily, it was only a matter of time before it all went down the tubes.

good points. personal responsibility is a very tough sell. me thinks impossible for the govt to do. if as an individual, your parents didn't sell it to you while you were still in the single digits of birthdays, it is doubtful that you will ever buy in after you reach voting age.

govt as a poor substitute for horrible parents is a topic that has been discussed ad infinitum.

I suspect that parents are much of the reason that culture is so localized.

[noddy]

the libertarian outcome is india, you should always confirm with yourself if thats what you really want.

2/3 of the population in ghettos, living in their own excrement, in perfect freedom from a government which never gets involved.

Im mostly cool with that, just need to keep the population lower so the natural land supply and food makes for a nicer, more comfrotable south east asian ghetto rather than the uglier, brazillian/indian mega ghetto.

[Simple Minded]

the libertarian outcome is india, you should always confirm with yourself if thats what you really want.

2/3 of the population in ghettos, living in their own excrement, in perfect freedom from a government which never gets involved.

Im mostly cool with that, just need to keep the population lower so the natural land supply and food makes for a nicer, more comfrotable south east asian ghetto rather than the uglier, brazillian/indian mega ghetto.

Amen!

As an elderly friend once pointed out, America is a first world nation with regions of third world populations. Seems other nations are likewise.

Seems difficult to either civilize people or enlighten them.

no-go zones exist in America, UK, France, Nordic countries and:

https://www.france24.com/en/20181121-us ... dian-tribe

[crashtech66]

the libertarian outcome is india, you should always confirm with yourself if thats what you really want.

2/3 of the population in ghettos, living in their own excrement, in perfect freedom from a government which never gets involved.

Im mostly cool with that, just need to keep the population lower so the natural land supply and food makes for a nicer, more comfrotable south east asian ghetto rather than the uglier, brazillian/indian mega ghetto.

That's a big assertion, I don't suppose you'd want to expound upon and substantiate it a bit before I bite? I mean, I get the gist, but don't see the Western world falling into that trap, at least not near term. There's a myriad of cultural factors that play into these things that might be more influential than government.

[noddy]

, I get the gist, but don't see the Western world falling into that trap, at least not near term. There's a myriad of cultural factors that play into these things that might be more influential than government.

of course.

for a start , westerners, especially germanic/anglo ones are highly conformist and non libertarian as a general rule - you can get away with a certain level of eccentricity on some levels but only if you are able to create self sufficiency.

I know saying this will make SM froth at the mouth and fall over himself to point out their are many rural and semi rural towns which arent like that but meh, thats why they ran away to become rural and semi rural.

houses all in a row, same colour, same style, same fence, people all in the same clothes all going at the same time to work is natural and normal to the vast magority of our countrymen, they even demand everyone changes their clock if they want to wake up earlier in summer.

so, being a southern hemisphere boy comparing australia to my reference points in south east asia and india, i always need to check just how free people want when they walk of freedom.

mostly, people hate freedom, their is always one or two personal issues they want fixed but as a rule, the conformist, middle class thing is the desired outcome and it should be not only supported by government but also forced.

[noddy]

to be honest, I dont have much to contribute beyond the stark difference between anything in the modern west and freedom/libertarian life.

its compulsory middle class with some disagreement on mechanism to achieve that outcome.

the horror of the thought that some people dont want to be middle class wage slaves will not be entertained.

[crashtech66]

...mostly, people hate freedom, their is always one or two personal issues they want fixed but as a rule, the conformist, middle class thing is the desired outcome and it should be not only supported by government but also forced.

Well, everyone loves the idea of freedom, but just like our kids have to learn, more freedom equals more responsibility. Your last sentence possibly sounds more ominous than intended, reminds me of Camazotz from "A Wrinkle in Time." You are probably more correct than we might feel comfortable admitting, policies especially on the local level and the HOA (don't know if there's an Oz equivalent) do tend to enforce uniformity. Federal policies here in the US help lower income people buy homes; over exuberance in doing so was one of the things that took blame for the Great Recession. Turns out that we can get most people into their own home (or at least housing) but we can't seem to force them to be responsible.

[noddy]

Turns out that we can get most people into their own home (or at least housing) but we can't seem to force them to be responsible.

responsible for what ?

look you miserable bastard, we have lowered the bar to you working 2 jobs. 100 hours a week for 35 years to pay off someone elses investment

[crashtech66]

Turns out that we can get most people into their own home (or at least housing) but we can't seem to force them to be responsible.

responsible for what ?

look you miserable bastard, we have lowered the bar to you working 2 jobs. 100 hours a week for 35 years to pay off someone elses investment

People generally have no fscking clue what a hard life is really like, having to break your ass all spring and summer just to avoid freezing to death or starving over the winter. Come to think of it that's maybe why things are different in temperate or tropical climates, it's not as imperative to plan for the future, muddling along day to day is the norm, and death is not as often the inevitable price for poor planning.

[noddy]

are you suggesting moving 2/3 of the population to alaska ?

im open to the idea.

[crashtech66]

are you suggesting moving 2/3 of the population to alaska ?

im open to the idea.

Hmm, given my (limited) knowledge of Alaskans, that might not improve things at all. So much for that hypothesis. But what about Antarctica? That would thin the herd for sure.

[Simple Minded]

, I get the gist, but don't see the Western world falling into that trap, at least not near term. There's a myriad of cultural factors that play into these things that might be more influential than government.

of course.

for a start , westerners, especially germanic/anglo ones are highly conformist and non libertarian as a general rule - you can get away with a certain level of eccentricity on some levels but only if you are able to create self sufficiency.

I know saying this will make SM froth at the mouth and fall over himself to point out their are many rural and semi rural towns which arent like that but meh, thats why they ran away to become rural and semi rural.

houses all in a row, same colour, same style, same fence, people all in the same clothes all going at the same time to work is natural and normal to the vast magority of our countrymen, they even demand everyone changes their clock if they want to wake up earlier in summer.

so, being a southern hemisphere boy comparing australia to my reference points in south east asia and india, i always need to check just how free people want when they walk of freedom.

mostly, people hate freedom, their is always one or two personal issues they want fixed but as a rule, the conformist, middle class thing is the desired outcome and it should be not only supported by government but also forced.

people love the idea of freedom, but don't like the necessary responsibility. We all like the rules of the game when we are winning, when we are not winning we want social justice!

kinda like being in a street fight, as long as you are winning, no rules are great.

[Simple Minded]

People generally have no fscking clue what a hard life is really like, having to break your ass all spring and summer just to avoid freezing to death or starving over the winter. Come to think of it that's maybe why things are different in temperate or tropical climates, it's not as imperative to plan for the future, muddling along day to day is the norm, and death is not as often the inevitable price for poor planning.

Having lived in both the northern US and the southern US, I often thought that the reason Northerners hustle much, much more than Southerners is primarily due to rotten weather much of the year. It just becomes part of the local culture.

Shorter days in winter, and longer days in summer multiply the seasonal effect in the north.

Mama Nature don't give a damn about your feelings. Cold sucks. Cold and rainy sucks even more.

After moving to the south, I have often told my friends and relatives back home: "Ya know how there are things you don't really want to do, but you say you will do them some time when the weather gets lousy? Back home, those things always got done within a few weeks. Down here they might not get done for a year."

With more and more of the population becoming white collar and working indoors, and with so many northerners moving south, and vice versa, it is probably less true today than in the past.

[noddy]

the flipside of that is once you have hussled in summmer and spring its 3-6 months of doing stuff all but drinking and eatring preserved foods.

the workaholic culture used to have downtime, now its 50 weeks a year for both partners to make basic living.

also.. if nature throws a bushfire at me I consider it a different situation to if the economic system burns down my house to keep me working harder.

[Simple Minded]

the flipside of that is once you have hussled in summmer and spring its 3-6 months of doing stuff all but drinking and eatring preserved foods.

the workaholic culture used to have downtime, now its 50 weeks a year for both partners to make basic living.

also.. if nature throws a bushfire at me I consider it a different situation to if the economic system burns down my house to keep me working harder.

agreed. and when 3-5 months of downtime each year meant no income while monthly expenses continued, with no safety net in sight, a different mindset developed.

the concept of god screwing you thru disease, weather, or natural disaster creates a very different perspective than Big Brother screwing you thru incompetence or favoritism in regards to the concept of "fair."

expectations of basic living today are luxurious compared to the past. An air cooled VW beetle could probably sell brand new today for about $800 if anyone wanted one.

"You don't have the money to pay cash? Well, I guess you'd better learn to do without!" and an aversion to borrowing money were local cultural trends I was raised with. I think it was the 1980's in the US when the part of the population who did not live thru the Great Depression really started to go crazy with spending and credit. IMSMO, social media magnifies the power of envy and injustice. back when everyone you knew was in the same boat, life seemed more "fair."

Easier to deal with the concept of less is more when you and most people you knew in your youth were raised that way.

I'm outside the curve, to me a modest house with no mortgage is a luxury. That is a tough view point to sell in America today. I would guess in 20 years or so, it may be popular again.

since OTNOT is the only "social media" format I use, I am probably very clueless as to the magnitude and pervasiveness of the situation. Not sure what the situation is there, but over here, rich and poor are very localized.

we even had a tv show called Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous for those who needed more envy...