Big economic problem

[Mr. Perfect]

So I'm looking for some outside the box thinking here.

I have been working on a financial project for several months, that will be a real game changer. At this stage of life I have been learning to code, as a means to write some financial software, the kids call them apps these days, and it's going to be a life changer.

For years I've had visions of how you can mold financial data, but everything available was about 10% of what was in my mind. Computers are about 10 years behind what I have in my mind.

Long story short I learned that with coding I can create what I have in my mind. And boy, it will be something. Unfortunately it's a professional application vs a consumer finance tool, so you guys may never see it, but wow, I am going to cash some checks.

So in the process, I have come across a real puzzle.

In the US, 50% of the population and 50% of GDP are within 50 miles of the ocean, leaving vast inland tracts bare.

So recently it occurred to me. Why is that?

I don't have an answer. I wonder how much it is the case around the world. I haven;t been able to find any trends yet.

This might be a problem because if for whatever reason you decided to move inland, would you be fighting against an invisible force working against you?

It's very interesting. In my study I have found a certain demographic who would only consider living on the coasts, and some people will only live in New York or Los Angeles, both hellholes in my mind.

[noddy]

ive been coding for 30 odd years now, have become quite good at all the c family languages (c,c++,c#,python,java etc) and am reasonable at many others - i talk in code better than i do in english.


in australia its 90%+ of the population and gdp that live near the ocean in the big cities - you guys actually have inland towns and we dont much at all - half of our 25 million is found in 2 cities, melbourne and sydney and the other 4 cities hold another 10+ million, leaving the rest spread out very thinly.

the reason here is simple - 18-40 year olds want more opportunities for work and sex / entertainment and small country towns dont offer much of anything to them.

when they get older and more jaded by humanity , some then have a tendancy to move back, its called "tree change" over here - finding a nice rural area to retire too.

[Mr. Perfect]

The question I have is why wouldn't these cities develop more inland. I get it, once a city gets going, it can perpetuate itself for the reasons you mention.

It seems like there is more going on.

I have learned html, css and working on javascript. It's fascinating and I wish I had learned it a long time ago.

[Mr. Perfect]

Another example, lets say you are a software startup, and don't need the ocean for anything.

You could locate in the middle of the Sahara in terms of geographic needs. You could do it from space station.

But lets say your choice is between Lincoln City Oregon or Boise Idaho. Again, proximity to the ocean.

What difference would it make?

In theory it should make no difference, but empirically there is another argument to be made.

What's behind it?

[noddy]

Cities are born from trade. Oceans and rivers carry the cargo.

nowdays, recently, the internet has become the new ocean and you can trade from anywhere.

id expect this to change the rules over the next century.

[noddy]

I have learned html, css and working on javascript. It's fascinating and I wish I had learned it a long time ago.

good place to start - if you find you have an affinity for it then I would recommend moving away from javascript sooner or later.

it teaches bad habits and organises itself in a clumsy way which will hamper good engineering - it was started as a way to make web pages prettier and has been catching up ever since.

[Mr. Perfect]

Yes, a long time ago. These days we don't need waterways like we used to, with rails highways and airplanes.

We have plenty of inland cities as you mentioned with serious industry, and we have lots of port cities where the ports are an afterthought to the local economy.

Something else appears to be going on.

And just skimming the globe we have major inland cities like Berlin and Paris that fly in the face of the rule.

I don't have this quantified yet, maybe that will tell us something.

[Mr. Perfect]

good place to start - if you find you have an affinity for it then I would recommend moving away from javascript sooner or later.

What would you use instead? I am working on a web based project. I started with html and css for basic layouts, but was recommended javascript. I don't know enough about other languages to know what I would use instead.

[Mr. Perfect]

Another example, lets say you are a software startup, and don't need the ocean for anything.

You could locate in the middle of the Sahara in terms of geographic needs. You could do it from space station.

But lets say your choice is between Lincoln City Oregon or Boise Idaho. Again, proximity to the ocean.

What difference would it make?

In theory it should make no difference, but empirically there is another argument to be made.

What's behind it?

Another way of saying it is what if indeed you chose to do business in Boise Idaho instead of Lincoln City, would there be an unseen force that you would have to overcome.

[Mr. Perfect]

Pretty abstract issue, but boy has it been gnawing at me.

[Nonc Hilaire]

The view! Water is spiritully soothing. Even if it is just a lake, watefront property is always the most desirable.

[Simple Minded]

Cities are born from trade. Oceans and rivers carry the cargo.

nowdays, recently, the internet has become the new ocean and you can trade from anywhere.

id expect this to change the rules over the next century.

you nailed it.

[Simple Minded]

The view! Water is spiritully soothing. Even if it is just a lake, watefront property is always the most desirable.

also true. Probably a left over unconscious memory from when lack of available surface drinking water meant thirst, discomfort, and eventually death were certain within a short time. Big body of nearby water may be an unconscious comforter that death is at least a few weeks away.

I have postulated that some of it is genetic. There seem to be beach people and mountain people, easily discerned by where they prefer to vacation.

[Mr. Perfect]

Cities are born from trade. Oceans and rivers carry the cargo.

nowdays, recently, the internet has become the new ocean and you can trade from anywhere.

id expect this to change the rules over the next century.

you nailed it.

Actually this is the opposite of reality.

In the last 10 years the exodus towards the coast has accelerated, with a few exceptions.

There is some invisible hand out there.

[Simple Minded]

Cities are born from trade. Oceans and rivers carry the cargo.

nowdays, recently, the internet has become the new ocean and you can trade from anywhere.

id expect this to change the rules over the next century.

you nailed it.

Actually this is the opposite of reality.

In the last 10 years the exodus towards the coast has accelerated, with a few exceptions.

There is some invisible hand out there.

Probably due to the widespread belief in AGW. All the creeks, ponds, rivers, and lakes are gonna boil off before the oceans boil off. People on the coast will be the last ones with visible water.....

[noddy]

micro climate is another big factor, now that i think of it.

in my country the inland is subject to massive swings in temperature from high to low because its the ocean which stabilises the nighttime temperatures and moderates it.

also, rainfall is more reliable closer to the coast.

if i was a high priest of evolution i might ponder on the nature of bald mammals and their relationship to water.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

Here's a question: how do you entice people to not congregate along the coasts/major bodies of water?

[Simple Minded]

Here's a question: how do you entice people to not congregate along the coasts/major bodies of water?

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I'm pretty sure that all the documented attacks of Landsharks have occurred in NYC which is a coastal city........

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[Simple Minded]

micro climate is another big factor, now that i think of it.

in my country the inland is subject to massive swings in temperature from high to low because its the ocean which stabilises the nighttime temperatures and moderates it.

also, rainfall is more reliable closer to the coast.

if i was a high priest of evolution i might ponder on the nature of bald mammals and their relationship to water.

If I understand you correctly, the invisible hand Mr. Perfect was talking about belongs to Darwin?

[Mr. Perfect]

FYI evolution is about humans turning into something other than human, not whether they like to live by water.

[Mr. Perfect]

Here's a question: how do you entice people to not congregate along the coasts/major bodies of water?

Yeah.

[noddy]

Here's a question: how do you entice people to not congregate along the coasts/major bodies of water?

historically a gold rush or a industrial boom (detroit) springs to mind.

then that finishes and you stuck in the middle of nowhere with nothing to do surrounded by angry men and hookers.

the full rich complexity of cities does form organically and starting new ones has a pretty poor record.

even though roads and trains exist now, they are still expensive and require a reason to exist- the bounty of the worlds "stuff" still arrives by ship for the most part.

technology only separates us from the old ways when it makes economic sense.

[Mr. Perfect]

even though roads and trains exist now, they are still expensive and require a reason to exist- the bounty of the worlds "stuff" still arrives by ship for the most part.

I'm not sure you would be able to quantify this.

Eg, the American phenomenon doesn't necessarily apply to other countries, and the west coast is largely barren of development. We have enormous concentrations in San Diego, Los Angeles, San Francisco and Seattle, other than that hundreds of miles of nothing. Could be some places are better to port, will have to look into it.

But it's made more difficult with this.



It's not divided neatly and cleanly.

We have an issue with the Mississippi, when you go west it starts to dwindle rapidly. Odd, because I consider my home to be west of the Mississippi. I would never live east of it. Anywhere west feels like I'm home, when I go eat I feel like I'm visiting a relative.

[Simple Minded]

if the promise of the Information Age were true, there would be no rhyme or reason to where people live.

reality should be a dwindling influence.

[Mr. Perfect]

For example Mexico is mostly inland.