Critiques of Atheism

[Mr. Perfect]

the only people in "my community" are my parents and inner circle of friends and family, its basically the same people id turn to for discussion if i was religious anyway.

The issue of morality and everything discussed here eventually becomes much wider though.

nope. i need to live with myself and my sense of myself everyday, and thats hard enough work already.

Sounds like a moral statement. Also you appear to be living as if there is a God. You can go one step further.

[Simple Minded]

That's human tribal nature comin' through which serves as the ridgepole of most human religions. There are a few notable and major exceptions though if we were to choose to do it in a different way we should, but this is what we have and it's all we got........

Amen, er, uh, in your case Awomen.

My point exactly. The label "Christian" reminds me of the labels "left," "right," "male," "female," etc.

Lots of wiggle room for members to self-identify or project.

There are also similar discussions:

Like the Kindergarten playground argument of "My Daddy can beat up your Daddy!"

or the Dallas Cowboys/Pittsburgh Steelers argument......

[noddy]

the only people in "my community" are my parents and inner circle of friends and family, its basically the same people id turn to for discussion if i was religious anyway.

The issue of morality and everything discussed here eventually becomes much wider though.
.

maybe so but in modern australia "god said so" isnt a valid public argument in secular government.

you need reasons, usually with a few cherry picked lies, ermm statistics, masquerading as facts to sprinkle around aswell.

[Simple Minded]

maybe so but in modern australia "god said so" isnt a valid public argument in secular government.

It isn't much of an argument over here either, except for the brethren who all go to the same small church. But even then, probably only when they are on church property or the pastor is watching.

Part of a Dennis Miller skit:

And then I make a joke of some aspect of religion, and someone says "that's not funny." So I reply "My god thinks it funny. And he has a great sense of humor. Which is why I picked him as my god."

Life really sucks for those who pick a god that does not agree with them......

[Mr. Perfect]

maybe so but in modern australia "god said so" isnt a valid public argument in secular government.

Actually it is, whenever anyone says "I'm right and you are wrong" you are making a higher law/higher power/higher truth/god argument, and politics has almost more of these than what we seen in Church on Sunday.

Many people live think and talk as if they believe in God, including lots of atheists.

That's what I'm saying. Everyone is completely saturated in these issues and few really grasp it.

[Mr. Perfect]

That's the problem actually of the modern secular age, people who don't believe in god verbally borrow from his authority for their own purpose on a daily basis. That's the biggest threat in the West.

[noddy]

maybe so but in modern australia "god said so" isnt a valid public argument in secular government.

Actually it is, whenever anyone says "I'm right and you are wrong" you are making a higher law/higher power/higher truth/god argument, and politics has almost more of these than what we seen in Church on Sunday.

Many people live think and talk as if they believe in God, including lots of atheists.

That's what I'm saying. Everyone is completely saturated in these issues and few really grasp it.

aaah, well thats good ole human squabbling and its everywhere , all the time.

god or no god, its a constant thing.

some folks believe in codes of conduct or constitutions or mission statements to try and avoid it but alas, the interpretations are still squabbled over.

[noddy]

That's the problem actually of the modern secular age, people who don't believe in god verbally borrow from his authority for their own purpose on a daily basis. That's the biggest threat in the West.

i agree with that.

tolerance is getting rid of people i dont like (tm)

still, its bigger than the atheists even if some of the odious ones happen to be atheist.

[Simple Minded]

That's the problem actually of the modern secular age, people who don't believe in god verbally borrow from his authority for their own purpose on a daily basis. That's the biggest threat in the West.

Stands to reason that people who pretend to be God, probably don't really believe in God, cause if they did they would fear his wrath when he found out they were impersonating him.

The present era is modern by definition, but I'm not convinced it is secular.

[Doc]

That's the problem actually of the modern secular age, people who don't believe in god verbally borrow from his authority for their own purpose on a daily basis. That's the biggest threat in the West.

Stands to reason that people who pretend to be God, probably don't really believe in God, cause if they did they would fear his wrath when he found out they were imitating him.

The present era is modern by definition, but I'm not convinced it is secular.

If they are talking about turning water into winecooler they are probably fake secularists.

BDoPei7Fg0Y

[Parodite]

That's the problem actually of the modern secular age, people who don't believe in god verbally borrow from his authority for their own purpose on a daily basis. That's the biggest threat in the West.

Maybe true for the reborn secular who wrestled himself out of a very religious family background where God Rules. To fight the Great Authority in your head requires some serious ego muscle.

[Mr. Perfect]

I'm running into a lot of 2nd generation (at least) seculars. Very interesting creatures.

[Miss_Faucie_Fishtits]

I'm running into a lot of 2nd generation (at least) seculars. Very interesting creatures.

Yes, for example I follow his channel:

U5gE-N9Pryo

[kmich]

2z-OLG0KyR4

[Miss_Faucie_Fishtits]

Dave, Ben and Jordan go over the same points several times for the really slow coaches out there and hopefully they get it.

1opHWsHr798

Human consciousness is really complicated, your definitive ideas about truth and reality are coloured by events and circumstances you don't control. If you're gonna toss out a major portion of the mental software you'll have to replace it with something - and no one's even thinking about it. You don't get to rewrite the timeline to suit your ignorance, and Reason, Science and Religion are nothing like you think they are........

Another point. The poison that will destroy your adversary may also destroy you.......'>.......

[Parodite]

Dave, Ben and Jordan go over the same points several times for the really slow coaches out there and hopefully they get it

I felt Dave needed some help vis-a-vis the claim that (I rephrase) a secular western humanist rationalist like Sam Harris is a fruit on the same Judeo-Christian tree as a Ben or Air Jordan. Supposedly explaining why Sam's moral value system is near-identical to that of Ben and Jordan. The problem I have with such a claim is that neither Ben nor Jordan really know on what sortova tree they are growing, nor how deep the soil below their own feet really is. It it might as well be all thin ice.

[Parodite]

Some more on the "thin ice" theorem where Ben and Jordan feel they walk on solid rock of Judeo-Christian tradition. Claiming that also Sam Harris walks on that same rock feeding on its nutrients but seemingly unable or unwilling to acknowledge that fact.

But Sam wants to believe it was primarily the enlightenment, science and technology that allow him to have the value system he has. That there are serious similarities between his value system and that of Jordan and Ben is because the enlightenment, science and technology have cleansed away much of the superstitious dogmatic nonsense that have obscured and mystified much of the Judeo-Christian tree of meta-physics.

So they all can make the claim they prefer and that serves them best. Free of charge!

It seems to me we all walk on thin ice. Claims and evidence presented for claims for/against the primacy of Judeo-Christian tradition or of Enlightenment and science respectively, look very similar to claims made about CO2 re climate change. Complex, ever changing systems with hundreds if not thousands of variables, where reality is fundamentally unpredictable and uncertainty rules. (a blessing in disguise IMO)

Yes, CO2 levels probably impact climate change but in what way and how much is very unclear. The best models are still wrong most of the time.

Yes, Judeo-Christian traditions probably impact cultural change but in what way and how much is very unclear. The best models are the ones that have a sweet taste to you. Sam Harris likes the taste of enlightenment and science better than of Judeo-Christian tradition.

Biologists like the taste of genes and rock layers that reach way beyond a mere 5000 years of human Judeo-Christian history with delicious amounts of foot prints of ancient life.

Quantum physicists like the taste of probability with a hint of super-positioned vanilla.

Etc.

[Simple Minded]

P,

You talking about vanilla thin-ice?

Sound like cultural appropriation......

[Parodite]

P,

You talking about vanilla thin-ice?

Sound like cultural appropriation......

Vanilla thin-ice exists already sumwhere in the yonder? Damn... in that case I'll pull back my greedy tentacles that want to feed on foreign sources. (on the other hand, why should I not live faithfully to the white male expansionist privileges nature gave me? Fighting nature is by definition a lost battle)

[Simple Minded]

P,

You talking about vanilla thin-ice?

Sound like cultural appropriation......

Vanilla thin-ice exists already sumwhere in the yonder? Damn... in that case I'll pull back my greedy tentacles that want to feed on foreign sources. (on the other hand, why should I not live faithfully to the white male expansionist privileges nature gave me? Fighting nature is by definition a lost battle)

Lesson one:

rog8ou-ZepE

[Ibrahim]

Dave, Ben and Jordan go over the same points several times for the really slow coaches out there and hopefully they get it.

1opHWsHr798

Human consciousness is really complicated, your definitive ideas about truth and reality are coloured by events and circumstances you don't control. If you're gonna toss out a major portion of the mental software you'll have to replace it with something - and no one's even thinking about it. You don't get to rewrite the timeline to suit your ignorance, and Reason, Science and Religion are nothing like you think they are........

Another point. The poison that will destroy your adversary may also destroy you.......'>.......

We've been trying to unravel the knot of human death and fate for thousands of years... but finally the YouTube celebrities are here to clear it up.

[Miss_Faucie_Fishtits]

We've been trying to unravel the knot of human death and fate for thousands of years... but finally the YouTube celebrities are here to clear it up.

Hi...... welcome back .......

The YouTube celebrities are picking up the discussion that has been dropped for the last several dozen years. We notice the dogs barking because they've been quiet for quite a while....'>.......

[noddy]

well, it was self evident humans are special for a while there.

its taking a bit of convincing now, fresh arguments are being sought out.

[Simple Minded]

We've been trying to unravel the knot of human death and fate for thousands of years... but finally the YouTube celebrities are here to clear it up.

Hi...... welcome back .......

The YouTube celebrities are picking up the discussion that has been dropped for the last several dozen years. We notice the dogs barking because they've been quiet for quite a while....'>.......

Talk about prayers being answered.......

[Simple Minded]

well, it was self evident humans are special for a while there.

its taking a bit of convincing now, fresh arguments are being sought out.

Well said. It is much easier for one to be special in a handful of daily acquaintances, than it is a vague defined mob of billions of "friends."