Australia - Human Rights

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NapLajoieonSteroids
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Re: Australia - Human Rights

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noddy wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:43 am everytime someone bangs on how the covid deaths are fake because they all had comorbidity or were old, they create more people hardened on destroying that political view.
But what political view are we talking about?

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.? Naomi Wolf? A handful of religious groups like the Christian Scientists? That New York Times Journalist? It must be all those hippy healing crystal/all natural vegans.

Up to five minutes ago these were either left-wing people or people who congregated within left-wing politics. And still a minority position with no political and little social power.

How this gets saddled on the right is kinda amazing in terms of how effective propaganda is.

"It's not just propaganda, it's realignment...it's popularism"

Sure, a little bit. It's not enough to effect big changes; and doesn't address the elephant in the room (in my country) about how distrust of medicine a lot of our minority populations are, and they're still voting for left-wing parties.

The superficial overlap is obvious with that personal responsibility/sovereign citizen crowd.

I'd say the real fight is a media one: it's people who trust the internet more than the trust the television/newspaper. And people are voting tv for now.
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Re: Australia - Human Rights

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It's not a "both side are bad" argument; I even understand why a complex fact like the dynamics of interests gets simplified.

I think it gets the big answer correct: there is no strong "right-wing" response broadcast to anyone.

There is a handful of cranks and there are critics...but what else exactly? What does a right-wing pandemic response look like? Maybe the Florida Gov. is the only one who could answer that.

Republican politicians want the borders kept open, the immigrant cheap labor to keep flowing. They didn't want to send out cheques in an actual emergency. Some of them support the personal responsibility tactic because it gets them out of having to answer what their actual plan would be and how it would differ from Democrats.

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume your right-wing parties were equally paralyzed along similar lines.
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Re: Australia - Human Rights

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That all sounds correct and yes, the anti vax left wing hippy dippies are part of all that flavour, and counter culture.

In a very specific way, my local right wing party had a take over by the right wing evangelical American organised groups

This is the qanon, global order, no new normal crowd.

They have kicked out all the moderate, small business type right wingers like myself and its all trust gods, not governments types.

This has led to the destruction of anything right of centre in my state and is likely to do likewise at the federal level next election.

Its pissing me off, these are not 'big tent' people.
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Re: Australia - Human Rights

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NapLajoieonSteroids wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:06 am .

Republican politicians want the borders kept open, the immigrant cheap labor to keep flowing. They didn't want to send out cheques in an actual emergency. Some of them support the personal responsibility tactic because it gets them out of having to answer what their actual plan would be and how it would differ from Democrats.

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume your right-wing parties were equally paralyzed along similar lines.
this is definatelty part of it

An inability for government to take a role during one of those rare moments government needs to step up.

Ideological retardation
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Re: Australia - Human Rights

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And again to be clear, their is nothing wrong with pentacostal groups as people or members of society but their is a massive disconnect between them and every day folks.

So when they took over the party, they got it all to themselves, and now its not relevant to the wider population.

The previous iteration of our right wing party was the text book definition of pragmatic big church politics and managed to put most of the asian and indian groups under the family friendly, business friendly banner without getting hungup on purity of membership to ideology.
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Re: Australia - Human Rights

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Hillsong and other Australian Pentecostalist movements have had a big impact here in America.
And again to be clear, their is nothing wrong with pentacostal groups as people or members of society but their is a massive disconnect between them and every day folks.
"Hindoos are very nice people but they are not normal like you and me."

This is knocking on some hardcore othering. :)

My prejudice is to defend them because of two decades of watching powerful people abusively sh!t on otherwise normal people, while occasionally lying about them, misattributing beliefs to them which they do not hold, or exaggerating what they do belief for the sake of ridicule.

It's that dance where they are so weird we're supposed to point and gawk but they are also unbelievably vulgar too-- literally every day folk now too big for their britches.

At least other groups which get gawked at have moments where they are found fascinating.
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Re: Australia - Human Rights

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All the being said, I don't know enough about Australian politics to see how it all fits together.

I'm a fish in water here with that base already built into the calculations. And I'm sure they can be as annoying as anyone else.
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Re: Australia - Human Rights

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NapLajoieonSteroids wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 12:45 am Hillsong and other Australian Pentecostalist movements have had a big impact here in America.
And again to be clear, their is nothing wrong with pentacostal groups as people or members of society but their is a massive disconnect between them and every day folks.
"Hindoos are very nice people but they are not normal like you and me."

This is knocking on some hardcore othering. :)

My prejudice is to defend them because of two decades of watching powerful people abusively sh!t on otherwise normal people, while occasionally lying about them, misattributing beliefs to them which they do not hold, or exaggerating what they do belief for the sake of ridicule.

It's that dance where they are so weird we're supposed to point and gawk but they are also unbelievably vulgar too-- literally every day folk now too big for their britches.

At least other groups which get gawked at have moments where they are found fascinating.
i cant other the people that othered me, this is not my approach, nor anything to do with what happened.

the chrisitan right has been part of the right wing in my country my entire life, their are no problems with that and its never been a problem in previous eras.

a righetous one took control of the state leadership , used branch stacking and various private abuses to kick every single non pentacostal out of the party they possibly could.
The messages detail how The Clan prided themselves on their ability to legally stack party branches with people they called "solid citizens".

In a 2016 message, Mr Cormann requested Mr Goodenough find another 30 people to stack into the northern suburbs branches of Woodvale, Hillarys and Padbury, in retaliation against a factional competitor's efforts.

"If he puts in 15 we should put in 30! Show him who is boss!" Mr Cormann said.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-27/ ... /100411550

so nope, this isnt any anti poor people nonsnese - this is the conservative born agains going full retard in a righetous battle to the death with progressive wokelings.

the progressive workelings are a 5% minor league party of lunatics nobody votes for, and our republicans are now the same thing.

yay genuflecting yay.
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Re: Australia - Human Rights

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so if their actually is a globalist democrat conspiracy to rework the world in a progressive wonderland.

the right wing have made sure those folks have 100% control of all politics in my country for several election cycles.

if you cant keep the moderate centre, you are a nobody - i dont believe in that american politcal theory about overton windows and moderates being road kill.

the muddling middle is always the one with the control, by definition.
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Re: Australia - Human Rights

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noddy wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 5:19 am any anti poor people nonsnese
Yeah, they aren't poor-- the whole thing is very much middle-class. "Industrialized Christianity", democratized and at peace with capitalism.

It's not very conservative either or wasn't initially

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Re: Australia - Human Rights

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yeh, to be succinct - this is an ideological purity thing, not an evangelical thing.

it just so happens that in this round of politics its the pentacostals in control and falling for the purity trap.

this may or may not work in some cultures, in some times - its the complete opposite of where australia is socially.

the political mood is not for wide eyed loons demanding tribal purity - that lavender is also keeping the green progressives in a small box of irrelevance
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Re: Australia - Human Rights

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and now ive got my frustrations at local politics out of the way - I didnt know the hillsong was backfeeding into America, I had always thought it was the other way round.

I thought it was all sub branches of the Asemblies of god, its all very American in look and behaviour.

our local mob is called the Globalheart church, which is an offshoot of the Hillsong thing.
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Re: Australia - Human Rights

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noddy wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 5:36 am yeh, to be succinct - this is an ideological purity thing, not an evangelical thing.

it just so happens that in this round of politics its the pentacostals in control and falling for the purity trap.

this may or may not work in some cultures, in some times - its the complete opposite of where australia is socially.

the political mood is not for wide eyed loons demanding tribal purity - that lavender is also keeping the green progressives in a small box of irrelevance
That's the fascinating part:
An enthusiasm so strong, where it's held in the heart that grace completely replaces nature and no half measures (or people half-in) can be tolerated.

Then the split happens. But a split into what? A new Australia?
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Re: Australia - Human Rights

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NapLajoieonSteroids wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 5:46 am
An enthusiasm so strong, where it's held in the heart that grace completely replaces nature and no half measures (or people half-in) can be tolerated.

Then the split happens. But a split into what? A new Australia?
I dont think end times people care or think about that - its more serious, more present - you are either right or you are about to be dead.

very much a perfect match for the progressive wokelings and their climate doom thing, this is not time for muddling politics, this is END OF DAYS.

---

the boogie monster of globalist socialism, the progressive greens dominating the world, conspiracies, they are fighting those, righetously, bravely protecting the wishy washy moderate idiots like me from myself and my own lack of ruthless certainty.

their is no split, they are just determined to have their hands on the levers, i will submit because i am weak (or stupid according to the greenies)
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Re: Australia - Human Rights

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noddy wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 5:53 am
NapLajoieonSteroids wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 5:46 am
An enthusiasm so strong, where it's held in the heart that grace completely replaces nature and no half measures (or people half-in) can be tolerated.

Then the split happens. But a split into what? A new Australia?
I dont think end times people care or think about that - its more serious, more present - you are either right or you are about to be dead.

very much a perfect match for the progressive wokelings and their climate doom thing, this is not time for muddling politics, this is END OF DAYS.

---

the boogie monster of globalist socialism, the progressive greens dominating the world, conspiracies, they are fighting those, righetously, bravely protecting the wishy washy moderate idiots like me from myself and my own lack of ruthless certainty.

their is no split, they are just determined to have their hands on the levers, i will submit because i am weak (or stupid according to the greenies)
09maaUaRT4M
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Re: Australia - Human Rights

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the morbid thought is that their is nothing loony about any of it.

when cooperation isnt giving angry poo flinging monkeys what they want, the next choice is somewhat obvious.
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Re: Australia - Human Rights

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noddy wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:30 am the morbid thought is that their is nothing loony about any of it.

when cooperation isnt giving angry poo flinging monkeys what they want, the next choice is somewhat obvious.
John Campbell(in the video I posted) is non political. Though I take i the did not like Trump. He just follows the research. He has been teaching doctors in the third world since the 1980's how to improve conditions for treatment and best practices in hospitals

AS far as I know I did not get COVID(THough I may have had a mild case very early on). I avoided it by not stating in public enclosed spaces for more than 10 minutes at a time. I always wore a mask and and disinfected my hands immediately after. Once the Delta mutation came along it pretty much illuminated most of the protection of the masks. But until then keeping your viral load small you would not likely get a serious infect and that may have given some immunity to it.

I keep seeing indications we are being lied to. Some of which are from illegitimate sources But many are quite credible. I took the J&J vaccine because it is less experimental than the mRNA vaccines. It caused a blood clot somewhere inside of me that could have just as easily killed me.

Now even though the research indicates that the J&J shot gives long term immunity they have a booster shot which I cannot take. So I guess I am done with vaccines. But unless there is a major mutation I think I will be just fine.

On thee other hand, the Pfizer shot seems to have an effectiveness of 35% after 6 months according to Campbell. SO a booster shot apparently is needed with at least that Vaccine and probably al; of the mRNA vaccines. Giving out booster shots every 6 months world wide is not going to happen @$16.19 per shot. Even if it was free it would not happen

The slowness and badly designed studies of potentially cheap off patent treatments is stunning. Like HCQ initial studies seemingly being designed to show they do not work. Which is waste of time unless the idea is not to find cheap alternatives. Stunning because we are being told we don't have time to waste.

And why doesn't the "media MSM and Big tech ever talk about natural immunity? If after 6 months the Pfizer vaccine is only giving 35% protection I suspect it is not as good as natural immunity. IE The Spanish flu as terrible as it was never actually went away. Enough people caught it that we ended up with herd immunity at the time.

Children don't get covid nor do they easily transmit should they get it. It is more likely for children to die in a car accident. So should children be banned from riding in cars?

Besides I suppose children taste like dogs.

https://ausprayernet.org.au/youth-menta ... -pandemic/
YOUTH MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS A SHADOW PANDEMIC
By Australian Prayer Network 24/08/2021 Australian Newsletter




Eight teenage girls have committed suicide in the first 7 months of this year in Victoria, a marked increase in the number of young women taking their lives in a tragic toll being closely watched by the Victorian Coroners Court. The alarming rise has been recorded by the court amid a deepening youth mental health crisis that expert professor Patrick McGorry has described as a “shadow pandemic”. New court data reveals 8 girls committed suicide to July 31, up from just one in the first 7 months of last year. In the same period in 2019, Coroner’s Court statistics show three teenage girls took their own lives while the number was four in 2018 and three in 2017. “The court has noted a potentially higher than expected number of suspected suicides among women under 18 this year,” a court spokeswoman said.

“While it is too early to determine whether this represents a trend, the court is continuing to monitor closely.” The rise in suicides comes as the state is gripped by a teen mental health crisis that experts are linking to Covid-19 and lockdowns. Teenage girls are among the hardest hit with increasing eating disorders, self-harm and suicidal thoughts or actions during the 18-month pandemic. Professor McGorry, who heads youth mental health service Orygen, said problems suffered by young Victorians had grown worse and health services were overwhelmed. “The system is drowning or crumbling,” he said. “This is the shadow pandemic. And every lockdown makes it even worse.

“It’s not that the government hasn’t recognised the problem, it’s that they don’t have the same sense of urgency, federal or state, about addressing it like they do with Covid.” Professor McGorry described this year’s eight suicides as a “real phenomenon” and said they needed to be considered in the broader context of the pandemic and lockdowns. “There is an increase in deaths and that is occurring from a rising base of suicidal behaviour particularly among young women,” he said. “There has been a very substantial surge, 20 to 30 per cent of deliberate self-harm and suicidal behaviour that is occurring in particularly young women and that is what is flooding into emergency departments. “The coroner is cautious about over-reacting. You have to put the number of suicides in context of the rising tide of suicidal behaviour amongst young women.” Girls have been hit during the pandemic as they battle eating disorders.

There was a sharp increase in new eating disorder cases early this year, from a weekly average of 654 in 2020 to 878 this year, a 34% jump. The number of teenagers rushed to hospital after self-harming and suicidal thoughts spiked 51%, rising from a weekly average of 98 in 2020 to 148 this year. The most serious cases, where teenagers have needed resuscitation and emergency care, jumped 44.9%, with the 2020 weekly average of 19.8 rising to 28.7 this year. Victorian Liberal Democrats MP David Limbrick said he was concerned the Andrews government did not understand how lockdowns affected the mental health of young people. “They have been saying they have been spending huge amounts of money on mental health, and yet children who need help can’t get access to it,” he said.

Limbrick went on “The mental and physical health effects of lockdowns on children are catastrophic. They are becoming socially isolated.” Mr Limbrick said schools should be immediately opened, and the government should set a date when all pandemic restrictions end. Resilience speaker Graeme Cowan has spoken about his 5 year battle with depression, and the habits he has cultivated to look after his mental health amid uncertainty. The Victorian government acknowledged the emotional toll of lockdowns. “We know how tough repeated lockdowns are on all Victorians, and that the emotional, social and financial toll of the pandemic is profound for so many people, but we just can’t risk the devastation of an uncontrolled outbreak of the Delta variant spreading rapidly across the state,” a spokeswoman said.

The government said it had invested more than $225m to help boost mental health services during the pandemic, and also referred to its $3.8bn delivered in this year’s state budget to implement the findings of the mental health royal commission. A spokeswoman for youth mental health organisation Headspace said their national online and phone counselling service noted a spike in demand “associated with strict lockdown periods both in Victoria and in other states experiencing heavier restrictions, such as Greater Sydney and NSW”. The government did not respond to questions about the eight suicides, pointing to broader court data that showed overall suicide numbers in 2020 were in line with those in 2019.

A senior child psychiatrist said the rise in teenage girls committing suicide reflected health department data confirming a mental health crisis. “There has been a sustained increase in referrals and presentations of young people with self-harm and severe emotional distress,” the expert said. “The data shows this demand has persisted independent of whether the state has been in lockdown or not. “One might hope there could be as much attention paid by the press and the government to suicides, and the monthly reports on children’s mental health presentations as there is on Covid cases and hospitalisations each day. “ But we in the field are no longer holding our breath. “The continuing injury, fear and despair will continue to take their toll, long after the active trauma of restrictions ever ends.”
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Re: Australia - Human Rights

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I will tell the victorian leadership that doc does not approve.

on the face of it - the australian female suicide rate is 5 per 100,000 and the male is 15 per 100,000

melbourne has 5 million people, so 8 suicides in 7 months is not a particularly relevant argument.

their are no good outcomes, all choices are bad and whatever happens, their will be consequences and horror stories.

my state locked down early, and hard, eliminated the virus in 2 weeks via contact tracing and then we closed the borders and lived like kings while the rest of the world had all sorts of problems.

all the places with huge ghettos, dependancies on mass immigration to suppress living standards, millions upon millions of people with zero respect for government.

not so good, but these outcomes are baked in to the situation.
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Re: Australia - Human Rights

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noddy wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 12:56 am I will tell the victorian leadership that doc does not approve.

on the face of it - the australian female suicide rate is 5 per 100,000 and the male is 15 per 100,000

melbourne has 5 million people, so 8 suicides in 7 months is not a particularly relevant argument.

their are no good outcomes, all choices are bad and whatever happens, their will be consequences and horror stories.

my state locked down early, and hard, eliminated the virus in 2 weeks via contact tracing and then we closed the borders and lived like kings while the rest of the world had all sorts of problems.

all the places with huge ghettos, dependancies on mass immigration to suppress living standards, millions upon millions of people with zero respect for government.

not so good, but these outcomes are baked in to the situation.
There was a sharp increase in new eating disorder cases early this year, from a weekly average of 654 in 2020 to 878 this year, a 34% jump. The number of teenagers rushed to hospital after self-harming and suicidal thoughts spiked 51%, rising from a weekly average of 98 in 2020 to 148 this year. The most serious cases, where teenagers have needed resuscitation and emergency care, jumped 44.9%, with the 2020 weekly average of 19.8 rising to 28.7 this year.


It is only a matter of time before the lock downs / contact tracing won't work anymore.
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Re: Australia - Human Rights

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yep, and the vax , while imperfect, lowers the death rate of covid back to much the same as the flu, so my country is just working towards that outcome.

then we will open up and we will have avoided the worst of it.

to be clear - you are trying to make the point that 200 depressed victorian girls is worse than changing the 40 deaths per million covid, into 1000+ deaths per million covid as per sweden.

5 million people, so thats 5000 deaths to save 200 girls from depression.

the Victorians apparently didnt agree with you.
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Re: Australia - Human Rights

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noddy wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 2:15 am yep, and the vax , while imperfect, lowers the death rate of covid back to much the same as the flu, so my country is just working towards that outcome.

then we will open up and we will have avoided the worst of it.

to be clear - you are trying to make the point that 200 depressed victorian girls is worse than changing the 40 deaths per million covid, into 1000+ deaths per million covid as per sweden.

5 million people, so thats 5000 deaths to save 200 girls from depression.

the Victorians apparently didnt agree with you.
The Pfizer vaccine is down to 35% effectiveness after 6 months.... New Zealand is saying that it has transmission of covid with no known source. This is after it eliminated all possible human sources. Animals can get COVID as well.

It is not just the 200 depressed Victorian girls. Its the quarantine camps under construction, among many other things. Are they proposing forced vaccination there yet?

But if you think that is a cheap cost, try gift" bats" and blankets:


https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/08 ... on-parties

Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine—but no infection parties, please
"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros
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Re: Australia - Human Rights

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I have no idea what it is you are so excited about or what you are talking about.

yes, flu vaccines are seasonal, that has always been the case, it always will be the case, nobody believes otherwise, nobody suggested otherwise.

so what ?
Last edited by noddy on Sun Aug 29, 2021 5:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Australia - Human Rights

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Just wait 'til the flu strikes back

============

I mean the flu is unpredictable as it is, but we've had an almost non-existent flu season last year and if things close again, we'll have a 2nd year of very little flu.

Then when things really open up, who knows what awaits? It's not unreasonable to predict something severe. Severe in addition to having gone 24 months with a loss of population immunity.

It could all be a nasty sequel following the current event.
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Re: Australia - Human Rights

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maybe, but dealing with the problems you have in an orderly manner is all we can do,.

my understanding of the yearly flu booster is that the anglosphere shares samples regularly and keeps northern and southern hemispheres prepared for each other.

so its not very high on the list of things to worry about.

the economic and social fallout from the countries that got hit hard by covid are the real tidal wave coming over the next few years.
ditto, the inflation caused by the money printing when the spending picks back up again.
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Re: Australia - Human Rights

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for those that get confused about American culture difference to Australian.

* government medicare has bi partisan support over here, political suicide to remove it.

* gun bans for city folks, bi partisan support, nobody had them, nobody wants them, the freedom to shoot kids for fetching tennis balls from your yard is a low priority.

* quarantine and border controls, normal and natural over here - we will confiscate all food stuff from you on arrival, we will put you in quarantine if you are sick, and we will shoot your dog , even if you are a movie star https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... dogs-video

* personal responsibility as a method for dealing with covid in large cities is not even plausible enough to be discussed as a possibility, as if you can stop other people coughing by being personally responsible.

now you can live free as a bird in australia - the place is 95% empty and 50% wilderness, just dont go to the cities or use their services.

some of us live on the fringe and try and get a best of both worlds going, still, middle class australia is always expanding, looking for more .. more... more... so you do need to move every decade or two.

--

oh and vaccinations wont be compulsory however private business will have the right to refuse entry to the non vaccinated and we have gone down the US/UK neocon path enough that nearly all services are now privatized.
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