Are we seeing the end of the American liberal order ?

[Miss_Faucie_Fishtits]

1BqKe5M9mEw

[Parodite]

HP, I had to be more clear.

What I mean with "the Western democratic-socio-cultural-economic model" is not one subcultural phenomena or another. It is like a container system where people can happily discuss and disagree, vote for different representatives and parties, have a devout religious life style or go to the pub every weekend etc.

Nation states may be all nominally democratic, but they are not the same of course. Democratic only means: somewhere somtimes at least some people vote for something or somebody. Most people like more democracy. After safety, housing, education, sufficient health care and food... that is.

"Liberal order" I used referring to something more like an order emerging from classical liberalism. Live and let live with a social awareness for the needs and rights of others.

[Parodite]

I have too much post-covid brain fog to fully process foggy JD.

"USA a beta-version of globalism..." gottit. He also seems to say: if one doesn't believe in the correct-and-real personal God, it is only down hill with you and society.

Religious tribes have forever been competing, making big truth claims about the physical, the meta-physical and just morality. And as a result being at each others throat more often than not. To love theigh enemies... turns out pretty tuff.

Separating church and state was the medication needed. A restraining order to keep all religious hot heads away from each others door step.

[Heracleum Persicum]

Well , here my 2 cents what is happening

Liberalism is in retreat, worldwide

Liberal systems, economically, politically, socially are not as effective as "right conservatism” .. Liberals know this but say
that is the price for the “freedom” and other goodies.

If "right conservatism” systems is more effective than “Liberalism” systems, this endangers “Liberalism”

That is why Liberals were pushing Liberalism in the world, trying to wipe out "right conservatism”

This backfired

First sign of rejecting Liberalism came in Iran with Khomeini .. Shah was (sort of) in liberalist camp .. Khomeini "right conservatism”

Trump America was next .. Trump probably has already comfortable majority in America ..

He represents "right conservatism”, Jerry Laymon Falwell Sr. soldiers

Putin Russia is equivalent to Trump America

In Russia too, there 2 factions .. (Navalny) Liberals catering to Western ideas .. "right conservatism” catering to Russian Orthodox Patriarch Kirill of Moscow’s ideas


Western liberalism, Biden and Merkel, fooled Ukraine into Western liberalism camp, promising free lunch.
Ukraine orthodox church had a clash with Kirill and separated, moving towards liberalism

Reason for fierce Biden and Europe reaction to Putin Ukraine incursion is : Ukraine is where Liberalism is fighting with "right conservatism” ..

Putin crashing Ukraine would mean a defeat for Liberalism camp and expansion.


Soon America will have "right conservatism” president , Trump or one of his camp.



The rest , Communism, Russophile etc etc , LOLOL , reminds me of “Don Quixote de la Mancha” fighting the demons .. communism was a European virus which ruined poor Russia and is buried long time ago .. China now more capitalist than America

How can one call an economy that gives $ 5 trillion “free money” in an economy with $ 25 Trillion GDP a capitalist economy ? .. This best sample for “crony capitalism) and socialist system

Without that $ 5 Trillion American economy would be now miles under water

Poor mad mullahs, poor mad mullahs .. they kept Iran with 90+ population, 3 Million afghan refugee , 500,000 Afghan children in Iranian school , with all money frozen by America, over water for 40 yrs .. Bravo
.

[Doc]

Well , here my 2 cents what is happening

Liberalism is in retreat, worldwide

Liberal systems, economically, politically, socially are not as effective as "right conservatism” .. Liberals know this but say
that is the price for the “freedom” and other goodies.

If "right conservatism” systems is more effective than “Liberalism” systems, this endangers “Liberalism”

That is why Liberals were pushing Liberalism in the world, trying to wipe out "right conservatism”

This backfired

First sign of rejecting Liberalism came in Iran with Khomeini .. Shah was (sort of) in liberalist camp .. Khomeini "right conservatism”

Trump America was next .. Trump probably has already comfortable majority in America ..

He represents "right conservatism”, Jerry Laymon Falwell Sr. soldiers

Putin Russia is equivalent to Trump America

In Russia too, there 2 factions .. (Navalny) Liberals catering to Western ideas .. "right conservatism” catering to Russian Orthodox Patriarch Kirill of Moscow’s ideas


Western liberalism, Biden and Merkel, fooled Ukraine into Western liberalism camp, promising free lunch.
Ukraine orthodox church had a clash with Kirill and separated, moving towards liberalism

Reason for fierce Biden and Europe reaction to Putin Ukraine incursion is : Ukraine is where Liberalism is fighting with "right conservatism” ..

Putin crashing Ukraine would mean a defeat for Liberalism camp and expansion.


Soon America will have "right conservatism” president , Trump or one of his camp.



The rest , Communism, Russophile etc etc , LOLOL , reminds me of “Don Quixote de la Mancha” fighting the demons .. communism was a European virus which ruined poor Russia and is buried long time ago .. China now more capitalist than America

How can one call an economy that gives $ 5 trillion “free money” in an economy with $ 25 Trillion GDP a capitalist economy ? .. This best sample for “crony capitalism) and socialist system

Without that $ 5 Trillion American economy would be now miles under water

Poor mad mullahs, poor mad mullahs .. they kept Iran with 90+ population, 3 Million afghan refugee , 500,000 Afghan children in Iranian school , with all money frozen by America, over water for 40 yrs .. Bravo
.

HP when you talk of "liberalism" you don't have any idea what you are talking about. SERIOUSLY. You are conflating to things - Classic liberalism and leftism. They are not the same thing.

[Miss_Faucie_Fishtits]

I have too much post-covid brain fog to fully process foggy JD.

"USA a beta-version of globalism..." gottit. He also seems to say: if one doesn't believe in the correct-and-real personal God, it is only down hill with you and society.

Religious tribes have forever been competing, making big truth claims about the physical, the meta-physical and just morality. And as a result being at each others throat more often than not. To love theigh enemies... turns out pretty tuff.

Separating church and state was the medication needed. A restraining order to keep all religious hot heads away from each others door step.

I was more taken with the 'USA is a beta version of globalism' theme than any bit that can be construed with Christian nationalism. C.N. is like a stray dog chasing the commercial vehicle of modernity and can be regarded as such....;>......

[Doc]

Does this answer anyone's question about the end of American Liberal order? ( i would have put this in political levitas but it isn't funny.)

[Heracleum Persicum]

.



NYT
Trump tells powerful stories that ring true to tens of millions of Americans.

The main one is that America is being ruined by corrupt coastal elites. According to this narrative, there is an interlocking network of highly educated Americans who make up what the Trumpians have come to call the Regime:

Washington power players, liberal media, big foundations, elite universities, woke corporations. These people are corrupt, condescending and immoral and are looking out only for themselves.

They are out to get Trump because Trump is the person who stands up to them. They are not only out to get Trump; they are out to get you.

This narrative has a core of truth to it.

[Doc]

.



NYT
Trump tells powerful stories that ring true to tens of millions of Americans.

The main one is that America is being ruined by corrupt coastal elites. According to this narrative, there is an interlocking network of highly educated Americans who make up what the Trumpians have come to call the Regime:

Washington power players, liberal media, big foundations, elite universities, woke corporations. These people are corrupt, condescending and immoral and are looking out only for themselves.

They are out to get Trump because Trump is the person who stands up to them. They are not only out to get Trump; they are out to get you.

This narrative has a core of truth to it.

Jeffery Epstein had a personal office inside of Harvard.

https://nypost.com/2020/05/02/jeffrey-e ... onviction/

Jeffrey Epstein had private office at Harvard after 2008 conviction

Jeffrey Epstein maintained his own private office on Harvard University’s campus for a decade after his 2008 conviction for sex crimes, red-faced officials at the Ivy League school admitted.

[Heracleum Persicum]

fraud.jpeg (172.14 KiB) Viewed 1848 times

[Heracleum Persicum]

.

As I remember , in total , $ 58 Trillion, free money was given away .. probably 1/3 fraudulently .. $ 20 Trillion



.

[Doc]

.

As I remember , in total , $ 58 Trillion, free money was given away .. probably 1/3 fraudulently .. $ 20 Trillion



.

It wasn't that much. More like 5,8 Trillion. It take a 0.3 of an hours to count to 1000. About 30 hour to count to a million. About 30,000 hours to count to and about 30,000,000 hours to count to a trillion. SO 5.8 Trillion is plenty to account for.

[Parodite]

ShOcztHID8s

Nice summary and apt analysis. Good to know there are left-of-center people who still uphold their tradition of caring about the socially and economically lower classes of more vulnerable citizens with honor, self-respect and love for facts and what-works as opposed to fiction-addiction.

The Democrat Party and its and corporatized media outlets should best be ignored and dismissed. They are beyond repair. I have seen the center-left tradition go bankrupt in my NL country around 25 years ago. They have never recovered and for good reasons: the working middle class is doing very well and simply doesn't need ol' fashioned leftism anymore. A minority of the traditional left now votes green but most vote populist and/or free-market liberalism: because that works best for them.

Socialist leftism has expired which is good news. An obituary would make more sense. Employed people negotiate their salaries as individuals. Unions, at least here in NL, are fortunately by and large still the pragmatic bodies of influence and negotiating power they should be.

While the Democrat Party in the US is ready for the compost heap, i.e. being recognized for what it has become: a rich people's club of corporate affiliates and stake holders with cult-like properties of a white upper class, the future of the GOP also looks grim. Without Trump they are not much. Both parties have come to their generational transition points of death or rejuvenation and innovation.

Those able to listen to the vast majority of US citizens that is still centrist, realistic and pragmatic... will win. But that presupposes democracy will be working well enough to make that happen the coming decades. Which is what IMO should be everybodies biggest worry: national democracies are slowly drowning in new global anti-liberal structures: a techno-burocrat dictatorship that cannot survive without media-mind-crowd control and good ol' military guntas to back them up where and whenever needed. Class differences that Batya Ungar sees under the woke noise of the day surely is something to pay attention to, but class differences are themselves also a dangerous distraction from the real elefant in the room.

The left will wake up bit by bit to the new global reality but they are too late and there are too little of them. Libertarians and other freedom lovers don't tend to form group-power because they have an instinct to avoid mobs. Which leaves the only type of "mob" that will fight the new globalist dictator class when push comes to shove: "biological territorialists" (tm), i.e. rightwing ethno-nationalists once again.

"Blut und Boden" is an always available instinct and sentiment, full of raw biological energy and power surfacing when our better angels die in decadence, or on a wokey dopey la-la-island not paying attention to the real world anymore.

[Heracleum Persicum]

.

'Christian Nationalism'

. . a consensus quickly emerged among some academics, pundits, and clergy that the attack at the Capitol was religiously inspired. “Christian nationalism,” the narrative went, was the driving force behind the riot. Popular Christian historian Jemar Tisby tweeted: “Don't miss the religious elements of what's happening at the Capitol. They said, ‘Critical Race Theory is the biggest threat.’ What they're showing us is that Christian nationalism is and has been the biggest threat not only to Christianity in the US but to democracy as well.”

Some truth to this

.

[Heracleum Persicum]

.


Declining Empire At War

Never has an official non-belligerent been more implicated in a war. Russia and its sympathizers assert that the U.S. attempt to turn Ukraine into an armed anti-Russian camp is what the war is about in the first place. Even those who dismiss this view will agree that the United States has made itself a central player in the conflict. It is pursuing a three-pronged strategy to defeat Russia through every means short of entering the war—which, of course, raises the risk that the United States will enter the war. One prong is the state-of-the-art weaponry it is supplying to Ukraine. Since June, thousands of computer-guided artillery rockets have been wreaking havoc behind Russian lines. A second prong is sanctions. With western European help, Washington has used its control of the choke points of the global marketplace to impoverish Russians, in hopes of punishing Russia. Finally, the U.S. seeks to rally the world’s peoples to a culture war against an enemy whose traditionalism, even if it does not constitute the whole of his evil, is at least a symbol of it.

It would be foolish to bet against the United States, a mighty global hegemon with a military budget 12 times Russia’s. Yet something is going badly off track. Russia’s military tenacity was to be expected—bloodying and defeating more technologically advanced armies has been a hallmark of Russian civilization for 600 years. But the economic sanctions, far from bringing about the collapse Blinken gloated over, have driven up the price of the energy Russia sells, strengthened the ruble, and threatened America’s western European allies with frostbite, shortages, and recession. The culture war has found few proponents outside of the West’s richest latte neighborhoods. Indeed, cultural self-defense may be part of the reason India, China, and other rising countries have conspicuously declined to cut economic ties with the Russians.

China-Russia-Iran .. coming soon to Theatre next to you

.

[Parodite]

.

'Christian Nationalism'

. . a consensus quickly emerged among some academics, pundits, and clergy that the attack at the Capitol was religiously inspired. “Christian nationalism,” the narrative went, was the driving force behind the riot. Popular Christian historian Jemar Tisby tweeted: “Don't miss the religious elements of what's happening at the Capitol. They said, ‘Critical Race Theory is the biggest threat.’ What they're showing us is that Christian nationalism is and has been the biggest threat not only to Christianity in the US but to democracy as well.”

Some truth to this

.

Some truth, but not a whole lot. Everything pushed to the extreme tends to cause unnecessary trouble. So it is with nationalism. To glorify the nation state and indulge in it can result in nationalistic fascism, which is the number one enemy of democracy. Communism is a special case of Fascism through Empire instead of nation states: more tribes, nations are under the boot of a central fascist government. Fascist Empires tend to be more prone to collapse, because tribal-nationalistic instincts and sentiments among the population are stronger quantitively and qualitatively more persistent.

A handful of elites with the financial and military resources to do a power grab inspired by some political ideology.. will not be able to maintain their position very long. "Benign dictatorships" however, like that of Cyrus the Great or modern "democratic dictatorships" where a majority temporarily rules... last longer.

"Christian nationalism" can mean anything. It can also mean a predominantly Christian culture that values its national territory as important enough to be defended with an army and where at the same time democracy, church-state separation and civil law are equally embraced and respected as necessary ingredients.

The enemies of nationalism are either naive utopians, or Fascists with a hunger for transnational Empire. The latter of course being the usual suspects: globalist elites forming very dangerous oligarchy as we speak.

A small group of Jewish orthodox intellectuals also abhor nationalism, of which our good ol' Spenger David Goldman is perhaps the best example. But his anti-nationalism concerns non-Jewish nationalism only, especially non-Christian Paganism. Christian nationalism he finds problematic. At the same time and without shame he loves his national ethno-centric Jewish-majority State of Israel. Irony oh Irony! It would mean only Jews are allowed to have nationalistic sentiments and indulge in a territory of their own. Supposedly because they are "Chosen".

In my observation Spengler's thinking on nationalism is primarily caused by the trauma of persecution that he internalized. He loves and respects Christianity primarily as a tool to keep those pagans sort of mellow and civilized... preventing them to become too paganistic and of course.. anti-Semitic again. Christians need to be kept on board the Judeo-Christian battle ship! Christianity is the insurance policy of Judaism. What Spengli doesn't seem to see and recognize.. is that a Christian pagan who reverts back to pure Paganism, will be 10x more anti-Semitic. Case in point: Nazis.

[Nonc Hilaire]

Big difference between using ideology to build your culture up and using ideology to tear other cultures down.

[Heracleum Persicum]

.

'Christian Nationalism'

. . a consensus quickly emerged among some academics, pundits, and clergy that the attack at the Capitol was religiously inspired. “Christian nationalism,” the narrative went, was the driving force behind the riot. Popular Christian historian Jemar Tisby tweeted: “Don't miss the religious elements of what's happening at the Capitol. They said, ‘Critical Race Theory is the biggest threat.’ What they're showing us is that Christian nationalism is and has been the biggest threat not only to Christianity in the US but to democracy as well.”

Some truth to this

.

Some truth, but not a whole lot. Everything pushed to the extreme tends to cause unnecessary trouble. So it is with nationalism. To glorify the nation state and indulge in it can result in nationalistic fascism, which is the number one enemy of democracy. Communism is a special case of Fascism through Empire instead of nation states: more tribes, nations are under the boot of a central fascist government. Fascist Empires tend to be more prone to collapse, because tribal-nationalistic instincts and sentiments among the population are stronger quantitively and qualitatively more persistent.

A handful of elites with the financial and military resources to do a power grab inspired by some political ideology.. will not be able to maintain their position very long. "Benign dictatorships" however, like that of Cyrus the Great or modern "democratic dictatorships" where a majority temporarily rules... last longer.

"Christian nationalism" can mean anything. It can also mean a predominantly Christian culture that values its national territory as important enough to be defended with an army and where at the same time democracy, church-state separation and civil law are equally embraced and respected as necessary ingredients.

The enemies of nationalism are either naive utopians, or Fascists with a hunger for transnational Empire. The latter of course being the usual suspects: globalist elites forming very dangerous oligarchy as we speak.

A small group of Jewish orthodox intellectuals also abhor nationalism, of which our good ol' Spenger David Goldman is perhaps the best example. But his anti-nationalism concerns non-Jewish nationalism only, especially non-Christian Paganism. Christian nationalism he finds problematic. At the same time and without shame he loves his national ethno-centric Jewish-majority State of Israel. Irony oh Irony! It would mean only Jews are allowed to have nationalistic sentiments and indulge in a territory of their own. Supposedly because they are "Chosen".

In my observation Spengler's thinking on nationalism is primarily caused by the trauma of persecution that he internalized. He loves and respects Christianity primarily as a tool to keep those pagans sort of mellow and civilized... preventing them to become too paganistic and of course.. anti-Semitic again. Christians need to be kept on board the Judeo-Christian battle ship! Christianity is the insurance policy of Judaism. What Spengli doesn't seem to see and recognize.. is that a Christian pagan who reverts back to pure Paganism, will be 10x more anti-Semitic. Case in point: Nazis.

.

'Christian Nationalism'

. . a consensus quickly emerged among some academics, pundits, and clergy that the attack at the Capitol was religiously inspired. “Christian nationalism,” the narrative went, was the driving force behind the riot. Popular Christian historian Jemar Tisby tweeted: “Don't miss the religious elements of what's happening at the Capitol. They said, ‘Critical Race Theory is the biggest threat.’ What they're showing us is that Christian nationalism is and has been the biggest threat not only to Christianity in the US but to democracy as well.”

Some truth to this

.

Some truth, but not a whole lot. Everything pushed to the extreme tends to cause unnecessary trouble. So it is with nationalism. To glorify the nation state and indulge in it can result in nationalistic fascism, which is the number one enemy of democracy. Communism is a special case of Fascism through Empire instead of nation states: more tribes, nations are under the boot of a central fascist government. Fascist Empires tend to be more prone to collapse, because tribal-nationalistic instincts and sentiments among the population are stronger quantitively and qualitatively more persistent.

A handful of elites with the financial and military resources to do a power grab inspired by some political ideology.. will not be able to maintain their position very long. "Benign dictatorships" however, like that of Cyrus the Great or modern "democratic dictatorships" where a majority temporarily rules... last longer.

"Christian nationalism" can mean anything. It can also mean a predominantly Christian culture that values its national territory as important enough to be defended with an army and where at the same time democracy, church-state separation and civil law are equally embraced and respected as necessary ingredients.

The enemies of nationalism are either naive utopians, or Fascists with a hunger for transnational Empire. The latter of course being the usual suspects: globalist elites forming very dangerous oligarchy as we speak.

A small group of Jewish orthodox intellectuals also abhor nationalism, of which our good ol' Spenger David Goldman is perhaps the best example. But his anti-nationalism concerns non-Jewish nationalism only, especially non-Christian Paganism. Christian nationalism he finds problematic. At the same time and without shame he loves his national ethno-centric Jewish-majority State of Israel. Irony oh Irony! It would mean only Jews are allowed to have nationalistic sentiments and indulge in a territory of their own. Supposedly because they are "Chosen".

In my observation Spengler's thinking on nationalism is primarily caused by the trauma of persecution that he internalized. He loves and respects Christianity primarily as a tool to keep those pagans sort of mellow and civilized... preventing them to become too paganistic and of course.. anti-Semitic again. Christians need to be kept on board the Judeo-Christian battle ship! Christianity is the insurance policy of Judaism. What Spengli doesn't seem to see and recognize.. is that a Christian pagan who reverts back to pure Paganism, will be 10x more anti-Semitic. Case in point: Nazis.

.

Not sure what Christianity has to do with "democracy" or what is propagated today as Liberal Democracy or "Judeo-Christian"

Christianity was adapted by Roman Emperor Constantine I, Constantine the Great for political reason to counter Pomegranates as all Roman legionares and Roman empire was following Persian Mithraism .. Roman Empire what the furthest from democracy as can be, a slaved based system, rather Pomegranates were "democracy"

Later on, Christianity we know today was (sort off) "re-invented" by Catholic Habsburg (all Christian Christmas songs and rituals German)

And

Never understood what "Judeo-Christian" means .. what does it mean ? ? ? what has Judaism and Christianity in common ?

Rather Judaism and Islam are the finger of same hand .. Moh (the pedophile -LOL) copied Judaism , all Jewish rituals are also in Islam .. Islam in reality "soft Judaism" ..

In that sense, "Christian nationalism" , a "code word" for in closet "racism"

More later ..

[Nonc Hilaire]

Never understood what "Judeo-Christian" means .. what does it mean ? ? ? what has Judaism and Christianity in common ?

Christianity started as a Jewish sect. Only Jews could be Christians. The Hebrew Bible is an essential part of the Christian canon - you can’t understand the New Testament except from a Jewish/Old Testament viewpoint.

Almost all Christians have an exceptionally high opinion of Judaism. The ‘Nationalistic Christian’ thing is some very confused people.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

Christian nationalism isn't a thing. It's a slur made up by the media for cynical polemic purposes and amplified by idiots and adopted by a handful of contrarian fools.

Just like semi-fascist is being laundered into the language right now (maybe because christian nationalist isn't polling well?) by these same, disgusting people.

--------------

The closest thing to a 'christian nationalism' as imagined by these idiots would be the wild early history of the coptic church with its monk assassins and street brawls, but that's a whole topic in and of itself.

---------

judeo-christian was at one point a taxonomic watchword for liberal christians. Maybe we are all liberal now, so it was broadly adopted.

My read is that (at least for the united states), it really took off with the importation (and copying) of German scholarship. But it has stuck around because:

1) the opposite of judeo-christian became the various historical jesus/positive christianity obsessions from those germans, who any day were going to uncover the real historical jesus as some type of aryan superman separated from jews.

2) related to 1 and liberalization, it became a way to speak broadly of christians without setting off secretarian fights while excluding or distancing antisemites.

[Nonc Hilaire]

Christian Nationalism is a thing. It’s the rump of the Silent Majority type Evangelical Christian right funded by the Acton Institute https://www.acton.org/

They are still salty about their loss of political influence. They are impotent but still make good headlines.

[Heracleum Persicum]

Never understood what "Judeo-Christian" means .. what does it mean ? ? ? what has Judaism and Christianity in common ?

Christianity started as a Jewish sect. Only Jews could be Christians. The Hebrew Bible is an essential part of the Christian canon - you can’t understand the New Testament except from a Jewish/Old Testament viewpoint.

Almost all Christians have an exceptionally high opinion of Judaism. The ‘Nationalistic Christian’ thing is some very confused people.

.

Judaism is a "ritual based" religion (same as Islam) made for Hebrew tribe .. there no philosophical dept neither in Judaism nor in Islam .. pretty much all "ritualism".

Christianity on the other hand has not much "ritualism" but mostly "philosophical"

I am not aware of much Judaism has in common with Christianity, except stoning for adultery (which is not in Muslim Koran) or Homosexuality being a sin (again Muslim Koran does not mention homosexuals at all)

Judaism regulates the whole life of a Hebrew tribe member, an individual .. marriage, death, burial, what to and what not to eat, many yes and nos in business etc etc

Judaism is a rule of "ritual" for Hebrew tribe and was not meant as a "religion" for "other tribes" (not meant as universal religion) .. there no "conversion" in Judaism .. to be a Jewish one had to be from Hebrew tribe.

What has Christianity in common with (original) Judaism ? what ?

Christianity started as a Jewish sect. Only Jews could be Christians.

True, "the Twelve Apostles" were Jewish Rabbies .. their idea was to change Jewish religion from a "tribal ritual" to a "universal religion" , adding to it non tribal issues (fighting Roman tyranny, etc).

Later, the Emperor Constantine's Christianity was a new invention, made up based on most "Mithraism" philosophy and rituals having nothing from Judaism rather most from Persian Zoroastrianism

pls Google .. Vatican and most Christian Churches were built on Mithraism temples.

Pope's and Cardinal's costume are all Mithraism symbols .. all

Christianity we know today took shape less than 800 yrs ago ..

The Hebrew Bible is an essential part of the Christian canon

What is included in Hebrew Bible is taken from "Zoroastrian" .. all those stories you read in Bible , all the figures without exception, are from Zoroastrianism

Hebrew tribe were "Totem worshippers" .. there "Temple"

Later Hebrew tribe exposed to Zoroastrianism and adapted all those "Mythos" and incorporated


Pomegranates invented ONE GOD , HELL , Paradise .. that comes from Zoroastrianism .. Jews adapted this later , Christians and Muslim followed


Please read, pretty much sums up


https://www.iranchamber.com/religions/a ... ianity.php





http://aramis.obspm.fr/~heydari/divers/ ... e-eng.html

https://www.worldhistory.org/Mithraic_Mysteries/

https://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Religion ... ianity.htm

https://www.academia.edu/38253240/Mithr ... ianity_pdf

https://www.timetravelrome.com/2021/07/ ... f-mithras/

https://biblio.ugent.be/publication/875 ... 750225.pdf

http://www.antiquitatem.com/en/mithrais ... -solstice/

https://www.walksinrome.com/blog/the-mi ... mente-rome

.

[Heracleum Persicum]

.


https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/17/us/a ... reats.html

[Heracleum Persicum]

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[Heracleum Persicum]

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Yes , Chinese , CCP , very corrupt
.