War in the Ukraine | Conspiracy theories

[Heracleum Persicum]

A chronology of the Ukraine situation with intelligent commentary.

https://www.voltairenet.org/article216293.html

Thanks NH , probably the case .. intelligent article

[Typhoon]

A chronology of the Ukraine situation with intelligent commentary.

https://www.voltairenet.org/article216293.html

Thanks NH , probably the case .. intelligent article

Conspiracy theory nonsense.

Thierry Meyssan

Meyssan has been noted as using cross-citations of other conspiracy theorists' works in order to lend the appearance of credibility to his ideas.

[Nonc Hilaire]

A chronology of the Ukraine situation with intelligent commentary.

https://www.voltairenet.org/article216293.html

Thanks NH , probably the case .. intelligent article

Conspiracy theory nonsense.

Thierry Meyssan

Meyssan has been noted as using cross-citations of other conspiracy theorists' works in order to lend the appearance of credibility to his ideas.

Ad hominem fallacy. You should know by now that Wikipedia is politically controlled.

The Ukraine chronology is accurate and can be verified. No conspiracy no theory.

[Doc]

A chronology of the Ukraine situation with intelligent commentary.

https://www.voltairenet.org/article216293.html

Thanks NH , probably the case .. intelligent article

Conspiracy theory nonsense.

Thierry Meyssan

Meyssan has been noted as using cross-citations of other conspiracy theorists' works in order to lend the appearance of credibility to his ideas.

Ad hominem fallacy. You should know by now that Wikipedia is politically controlled.

The Ukraine chronology is accurate and can be verified. No conspiracy no theory.

But in the case of Meyssan he is a 911 truther. And that is in footnotes in the wikipage. At least he wrote two books claiming the attacks were Islamist terrorists. Give that Bin Laden himself admitted that he was behind 911 on video .... Of course given the more recent history, one can always claim that Bid Laden was an FBI informant.

[Typhoon]

A chronology of the Ukraine situation with intelligent commentary.

https://www.voltairenet.org/article216293.html

Thanks NH , probably the case .. intelligent article

Conspiracy theory nonsense.

Thierry Meyssan

Meyssan has been noted as using cross-citations of other conspiracy theorists' works in order to lend the appearance of credibility to his ideas.

Ad hominem fallacy. You should know by now that Wikipedia is politically controlled.

Sure. By the Reptilians and the Illuminati.

Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar.
And an invasion is just an invasion.

The Ukraine chronology is accurate and can be verified. No conspiracy no theory.

It is and it can?

Well, I look forward to reading the to-be-posted chronology documentation so that I may verify it for myself.

[Heracleum Persicum]

A chronology of the Ukraine situation with intelligent commentary.

https://www.voltairenet.org/article216293.html

Thanks NH , probably the case .. intelligent article

Conspiracy theory nonsense.

Thierry Meyssan

Meyssan has been noted as using cross-citations of other conspiracy theorists' works in order to lend the appearance of credibility to his ideas.

Ad hominem fallacy. You should know by now that Wikipedia is politically controlled.

The Ukraine chronology is accurate and can be verified. No conspiracy no theory.

Yes

Majority of Typhoon post are Ad hominem

Re WiKi , true too , Wikipedia main instrument to feed the naive Western commoner with "made up to western narrative " distortion, fake, invention and lies.

.

[Doc]

So it is understandable that Ukrainians do not want to be "Russian".

The same goes for the Baltics and the rest of E Europe whose experiences are all too similar.

It’s not up to you

Or you.

As for myself, I've never claimed that it was.

You sure did. That's why I responded.

The nations once occupied by the former SU have made their views quite clear.

Depends on who you talk to. Opinions vary.

One opinion is that that part of world redraws its maps every so often, and this is just one blip that will be forgotten, or simply integrated into a boring historical timeline that will continue indefinitely into the future.

Either way that is not the larger story, which is that the UN/NATO led by US model of global security is finished.

The result of which is that places like Japan and Australia have no security now. And are sitting ducks. No one will save them from the outside from what's coming

Ever hear of the secret third prophecy of Fatima? It basically says(as I understand it) God will use Russia to punish the evil world.

If we look at what is happening in Ukraine, without being misled by the gross falsifications of the mainstream media, we realize that respect for each other’s rights has been completely ignored; indeed, we have the impression that the Biden Administration, NATO and the European Union deliberately want to maintain a situation of obvious imbalance, precisely to make impossible any attempt at a peaceful resolution of the Ukrainian crisis, provoking the Russian Federation to trigger a conflict…

…It should not surprise us that pluralism and freedom of speech, so praised in countries that claim to be democratic, are daily disavowed by censorship and intolerance towards opinions not aligned with the official narrative. Manipulations of this kind have become the norm during the so-called pandemic, to the detriment of doctors, scientists and dissenting journalists, who have been discredited and ostracized for the mere fact of daring to question the effectiveness of experimental serums. Two years later, the truth about the adverse effects and the unfortunate management of the health emergency has proven them right, but the truth is stubbornly ignored because it does not correspond to what the system wanted and still wants today.

If the world media have so far been able to lie shamelessly on a matter of strict scientific relevance, spreading lies and hiding reality,we should ask ourselves why, in the present situation, they should suddenly rediscover that intellectual honesty and respect for the code of ethics widely denied with Covid.

But if this colossal fraud has been supported and disseminated by the media, it must be recognized that national and international health institutions, governments, magistrates, law enforcement agencies and the Catholic Hierarchy itself all share responsibility for the disaster – each in its own sphere by actively supporting or failing to oppose the narrative – a disaster that has affected billions of people in their health, their property, the exercise of their individual rights and even their very lives. Even in this case, it is difficult to imagine that those who have been guilty of such crimes in support of a pandemic that was intended and maliciously amplified could suddenly have a jolt of dignity and show solicitude for their citizens and their homeland when a war threatens their security and their economy…

…NATO has failed to keep its commitments to Russia, or has at least forced the situation at a very delicate moment for geopolitical balances. We should ask ourselves why the United States – or rather the American deep state which regained power after the electoral fraud that brought Joe Biden to the White House – wants to create tensions with Russia and involve its European partners in the conflict, with all the consequences we can imagine.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

Ever hear of the secret third prophecy of Fatima? It basically says(as I understand it) God will use Russia to punish the evil world.

No it doesn't. The secret third prophecy, if it exists at all, is speculated to have to do with the church herself.

Russia is mentioned in the first or second allege prophecy where there is a warning of the "errors of Russia" spreading.

English speaking conservatives and european schismatics have built a whole political-theology on this private revelation (and the speculation on something more private).

But the simple answer, if one is to believe that there was a divine message here, is the one still in front of us:

The errors of Russia remain what they always were: orthodoxy, autocracy and nationalism.

-----------

As for the retired archbishop, the most charitable suggestion is that old age has sapped him of a lot; and these missives he's been sending out are the work of those surrounding him taking advantage of his age and title.

[Doc]

Ever hear of the secret third prophecy of Fatima? It basically says(as I understand it) God will use Russia to punish the evil world.

No it doesn't. The secret third prophecy, if it exists at all, is speculated to have to do with the church herself.

Russia is mentioned in the first or second allege prophecy where there is a warning of the "errors of Russia" spreading.

English speaking conservatives and european schismatics have built a whole political-theology on this private revelation (and the speculation on something more private).

But the simple answer, if one is to believe that there was a divine message here, is the one still in front of us:

The errors of Russia remain what they always were: orthodoxy, autocracy and nationalism.

-----------

As for the retired archbishop, the most charitable suggestion is that old age has sapped him of a lot; and these missives he's been sending out are the work of those surrounding him taking advantage of his age and title.

Made for a NATO war simulation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWqWAi_H_9o

VWqWAi_H_9o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCfkKQiTI-M

iCfkKQiTI-M

However the real point of my post was Vigano's declaration. Care to comment on that? My guess is you won't dare in any way that address what he actual said in it. .

"If we look at what is happening in Ukraine, without being misled by the gross falsifications of the mainstream media, we realize that respect for each other’s rights has been completely ignored; indeed, we have the impression that the Biden Administration, NATO and the European Union deliberately want to maintain a situation of obvious imbalance, precisely to make impossible any attempt at a peaceful resolution of the Ukrainian crisis, provoking the Russian Federation to trigger a conflict…

…It should not surprise us that pluralism and freedom of speech, so praised in countries that claim to be democratic, are daily disavowed by censorship and intolerance towards opinions not aligned with the official narrative. Manipulations of this kind have become the norm during the so-called pandemic, to the detriment of doctors, scientists and dissenting journalists, who have been discredited and ostracized for the mere fact of daring to question the effectiveness of experimental serums. Two years later, the truth about the adverse effects and the unfortunate management of the health emergency has proven them right, but the truth is stubbornly ignored because it does not correspond to what the system wanted and still wants today.

If the world media have so far been able to lie shamelessly on a matter of strict scientific relevance, spreading lies and hiding reality,we should ask ourselves why, in the present situation, they should suddenly rediscover that intellectual honesty and respect for the code of ethics widely denied with Covid.

But if this colossal fraud has been supported and disseminated by the media, it must be recognized that national and international health institutions, governments, magistrates, law enforcement agencies and the Catholic Hierarchy itself all share responsibility for the disaster – each in its own sphere by actively supporting or failing to oppose the narrative – a disaster that has affected billions of people in their health, their property, the exercise of their individual rights and even their very lives. Even in this case, it is difficult to imagine that those who have been guilty of such crimes in support of a pandemic that was intended and maliciously amplified could suddenly have a jolt of dignity and show solicitude for their citizens and their homeland when a war threatens their security and their economy…

…NATO has failed to keep its commitments to Russia, or has at least forced the situation at a very delicate moment for geopolitical balances. We should ask ourselves why the United States – or rather the American deep state which regained power after the electoral fraud that brought Joe Biden to the White House – wants to create tensions with Russia and involve its European partners in the conflict, with all the consequences we can imagine."

[Typhoon]

A chronology of the Ukraine situation with intelligent commentary.

https://www.voltairenet.org/article216293.html

Thanks NH , probably the case .. intelligent article

Conspiracy theory nonsense.

Thierry Meyssan

Meyssan has been noted as using cross-citations of other conspiracy theorists' works in order to lend the appearance of credibility to his ideas.

Ad hominem fallacy. You should know by now that Wikipedia is politically controlled.

Sure. By the Reptilians and the Illuminati.

Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar.
And an invasion is just an invasion.

The Ukraine chronology is accurate and can be verified. No conspiracy no theory.

It is and it can?

Well, I look forward to reading the to-be-posted chronology documentation so that I may verify it for myself.

Still waiting for a link to the claimed Ukraine chronology documents.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

However the real point of my post was Vigano's declaration. Care to comment on that? My guess is you won't dare in any way that address what he actual said in it. .

"If we look at what is happening in Ukraine, without being misled by the gross falsifications of the mainstream media, we realize that respect for each other’s rights has been completely ignored; indeed, we have the impression that the Biden Administration, NATO and the European Union deliberately want to maintain a situation of obvious imbalance, precisely to make impossible any attempt at a peaceful resolution of the Ukrainian crisis, provoking the Russian Federation to trigger a conflict…

…It should not surprise us that pluralism and freedom of speech, so praised in countries that claim to be democratic, are daily disavowed by censorship and intolerance towards opinions not aligned with the official narrative. Manipulations of this kind have become the norm during the so-called pandemic, to the detriment of doctors, scientists and dissenting journalists, who have been discredited and ostracized for the mere fact of daring to question the effectiveness of experimental serums. Two years later, the truth about the adverse effects and the unfortunate management of the health emergency has proven them right, but the truth is stubbornly ignored because it does not correspond to what the system wanted and still wants today.

If the world media have so far been able to lie shamelessly on a matter of strict scientific relevance, spreading lies and hiding reality,we should ask ourselves why, in the present situation, they should suddenly rediscover that intellectual honesty and respect for the code of ethics widely denied with Covid.

But if this colossal fraud has been supported and disseminated by the media, it must be recognized that national and international health institutions, governments, magistrates, law enforcement agencies and the Catholic Hierarchy itself all share responsibility for the disaster – each in its own sphere by actively supporting or failing to oppose the narrative – a disaster that has affected billions of people in their health, their property, the exercise of their individual rights and even their very lives. Even in this case, it is difficult to imagine that those who have been guilty of such crimes in support of a pandemic that was intended and maliciously amplified could suddenly have a jolt of dignity and show solicitude for their citizens and their homeland when a war threatens their security and their economy…

…NATO has failed to keep its commitments to Russia, or has at least forced the situation at a very delicate moment for geopolitical balances. We should ask ourselves why the United States – or rather the American deep state which regained power after the electoral fraud that brought Joe Biden to the White House – wants to create tensions with Russia and involve its European partners in the conflict, with all the consequences we can imagine."

What is there to address? The same base assertions found elsewhere? He isn't adding anything to the conversation but the weight of his former office and to that the archbishop is not fit to address any of these subjects. He lost his any credibility years ago when he was throwing around accusations he couldn't back up; or which included several inconsistencies, including with aspects of canon law he was an expert in.

I reiterate what I said earlier: the archbishop or those around him have formed a little cult of personality trading on his title to play at sectarian issues and attracting fanatics.

He is an old man surrounded by people who clearly view him instrumentally. Considering he is merely conversant in English (and not at all in some of the languages his missives have been sent out in) there is a likelihood that he is not the actual author of anything he has written.

========

As for the assertions:

I'm on record earlier in this thread saying that the Biden administration and American bureaucrats are filled with fanatical people who want a war with Russia. I'll even agree that they've been poking at Russia and would prefer a policies which destabilize Russia.

But so what? Countries are filled with people who play antagonizing games for all sorts of reasons.

The bottom line remains that Vladmir Putin played himself.

-- The idea that everyone but Putin has agency for their actions is risible.

--The idea that Russia deserves a sphere of influence with people who don't want Russia's sphere is risible.

--The idea that Russia needs the Ukraine as a missile buffer is risible too, no matter how impressive their defensive systems are.

-- The idea Russia is allowed to intervene in the affairs of other countries on ethnic grounds is risible.

-- The idea that Russia was forced into this because people halfway across the globe don't like them is risible.

-- The idea that Russia is a "traditionalist" country is risible.

[Doc]

However the real point of my post was Vigano's declaration. Care to comment on that? My guess is you won't dare in any way that address what he actual said in it. .

"If we look at what is happening in Ukraine, without being misled by the gross falsifications of the mainstream media, we realize that respect for each other’s rights has been completely ignored; indeed, we have the impression that the Biden Administration, NATO and the European Union deliberately want to maintain a situation of obvious imbalance, precisely to make impossible any attempt at a peaceful resolution of the Ukrainian crisis, provoking the Russian Federation to trigger a conflict…

…It should not surprise us that pluralism and freedom of speech, so praised in countries that claim to be democratic, are daily disavowed by censorship and intolerance towards opinions not aligned with the official narrative. Manipulations of this kind have become the norm during the so-called pandemic, to the detriment of doctors, scientists and dissenting journalists, who have been discredited and ostracized for the mere fact of daring to question the effectiveness of experimental serums. Two years later, the truth about the adverse effects and the unfortunate management of the health emergency has proven them right, but the truth is stubbornly ignored because it does not correspond to what the system wanted and still wants today.

If the world media have so far been able to lie shamelessly on a matter of strict scientific relevance, spreading lies and hiding reality,we should ask ourselves why, in the present situation, they should suddenly rediscover that intellectual honesty and respect for the code of ethics widely denied with Covid.

But if this colossal fraud has been supported and disseminated by the media, it must be recognized that national and international health institutions, governments, magistrates, law enforcement agencies and the Catholic Hierarchy itself all share responsibility for the disaster – each in its own sphere by actively supporting or failing to oppose the narrative – a disaster that has affected billions of people in their health, their property, the exercise of their individual rights and even their very lives. Even in this case, it is difficult to imagine that those who have been guilty of such crimes in support of a pandemic that was intended and maliciously amplified could suddenly have a jolt of dignity and show solicitude for their citizens and their homeland when a war threatens their security and their economy…

…NATO has failed to keep its commitments to Russia, or has at least forced the situation at a very delicate moment for geopolitical balances. We should ask ourselves why the United States – or rather the American deep state which regained power after the electoral fraud that brought Joe Biden to the White House – wants to create tensions with Russia and involve its European partners in the conflict, with all the consequences we can imagine."

What is there to address?

Exactly as I predicted. You have nothing but a personal attack on him. IE nothing of substance

The same base assertions found elsewhere? He isn't adding anything to the conversation but the weight of his former office and to that the archbishop is not fit to address any of these subjects. He lost his any credibility years ago when he was throwing around accusations he couldn't back up; or which included several inconsistencies, including with aspects of canon law he was an expert in.

I reiterate what I said earlier: the archbishop or those around him have formed a little cult of personality trading on his title to play at sectarian issues and attracting fanatics.

He is an old man surrounded by people who clearly view him instrumentally. Considering he is merely conversant in English (and not at all in some of the languages his missives have been sent out in) there is a likelihood that he is not the actual author of anything he has written.

========

As for the assertions:

I'm on record earlier in this thread saying that the Biden administration and American bureaucrats are filled with fanatical people who want a war with Russia. I'll even agree that they've been poking at Russia and would prefer a policies which destabilize Russia.

But so what? Countries are filled with people who play antagonizing games for all sorts of reasons.

The bottom line remains that Vladmir Putin played himself.

-- The idea that everyone but Putin has agency for their actions is risible.

--The idea that Russia deserves a sphere of influence with people who don't want Russia's sphere is risible.

--The idea that Russia needs the Ukraine as a missile buffer is risible too, no matter how impressive their defensive systems are.

-- The idea Russia is allowed to intervene in the affairs of other countries on ethnic grounds is risible.

-- The idea that Russia was forced into this because people halfway across the globe don't like them is risible.

-- The idea that Russia is a "traditionalist" country is risible.

I was watching Tim Pool's youtube channel the other day. He was complaining that he talked about Bio-labs in Ukraine and was widely smeared by so called MSM "Journalists who claimed he said "Bio Weapons labs" He never said that. Just a smear. Which is what you are doing here. Ignoring th emain point and cherry picking something you dare challenge. I have seen you do the same thing with COVID Vaccines.

I see no further point in discussing anything with you. LIve in your own illusion

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

Exactly as I predicted. You have nothing but a personal attack on him. IE nothing of substance

He is insubstantial in matters involving Russia and the Ukraine. The sole reason he is brought up is because he is a former papal nuncio to the united states, trading on that title to affect being some sort of insider; so it is most certainly about his credibility, and he has none.

Zero. Zilch. Nada.

He [or the people he's surrounded with] has been a crazy and dishonest pundit for years now, telling certain fanatics things they want to hear.

Which is why self-describing conservatives and traditionalists have been distancing themselves.

Be Careful About Lionizing Viganò is not coming from left wing radicals.

It is more involving but really, it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

I was watching Tim Pool's youtube channel the other day. He was complaining that he talked about Bio-labs in Ukraine and was widely smeared by so called MSM "Journalists who claimed he said "Bio Weapons labs" He never said that. Just a smear. Which is what you are doing here. Ignoring th emain point and cherry picking something you dare challenge. I have seen you do the same thing with COVID Vaccines.

You are not Tim Pool (unless you are) and I'm not the media.

The main point per your post is that the Russians have some sort of justification for their actions (mainly due the injustice and skullduggery of the Americans as per that quote), and I provided a list of reasons why that is utter nonsense.

[Nonc Hilaire]

A chronology of the Ukraine situation with intelligent commentary.

https://www.voltairenet.org/article216293.html

Thanks NH , probably the case .. intelligent article

Conspiracy theory nonsense.

Thierry Meyssan

Meyssan has been noted as using cross-citations of other conspiracy theorists' works in order to lend the appearance of credibility to his ideas.

Ad hominem fallacy. You should know by now that Wikipedia is politically controlled.

Sure. By the Reptilians and the Illuminati.

Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar.
And an invasion is just an invasion.

The Ukraine chronology is accurate and can be verified. No conspiracy no theory.

It is and it can?

Well, I look forward to reading the to-be-posted chronology documentation so that I may verify it for myself.

Still waiting for a link to the claimed Ukraine chronology documents.

I have posted a chronology. You were unable to dispute it.

An unrefuted statement stands as fact. If you wish to refute this, you must present your own chronology.

[Nonc Hilaire]

F50B4F70-7004-4133-AF9D-FCFA59E2EFD5.jpeg (466.39 KiB) Viewed 7614 times

A reasonably detailed US sitrep. It seems to draw from The Saker in places. The map is French; legend is in the link.

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2022/03/u ... .html#more

The Russian command has decided to now concentrate on enveloping and destroying Ukraine's main forces at the Donetsk front. These are the most heavy equipped and most experienced units of the Ukrainian army. Since last fall some 60,000 men had been assembled there for a full fledged war on Donetsk, an attack that the Russian operation successfully preempted.

It will probably take a few days for the Russian forces to regroup and resupply for that next phase of the war. I expect it to start around the end of this week.

The U.S. and Polish military are helping to smuggle small arms stuff through the western Ukrainian boarder. These are anti-tank missiles, old short range anti-air missiles as well as machine guns, mortars and ammunition. This is equipment for a guerilla war against an occupation force. But except for the east and maybe some parts in the south the Russian forces do not plan to occupy anything.

Those regions are steppe, very flat with little woods, where one can see an approaching enemy from miles away. It will be extremely difficult for a guerilla force to survive there. That is likely the reason why the Russian forces have done little to interrupt the arms smuggling into western Ukraine. (Those smuggled weapons will for years haunt the 'western' Europeans as they are certain to proliferate to right-wing extremist groups all over the continent.)

The general task for the whole military operation as set out by the Russian command was to de-militarize and to de-nazify the Ukraine.

The material de-militarization of the Ukraine is mostly done. During the next few weeks the Russian air and long range artillery forces will finish that task. The Ukraine would have to completely rearm, starting at about zero, should it want to regain significant military capabilities. It is hard to see how it will ever be able to finance that.

The de-militarization of the main forces of the Ukrainian army will happen in the Donbas cauldron. The units there will have to give up or they will be destroyed by the materially vastly superior Russian forces.

The de-nazification of the Ukraine has proven to be more difficult. The main fascist units of the Azov regiment were caught up in Mariupol where several thousand of them have been or will be eliminated. More fascist units at the Donetzk front will also soon be taken out. But during the eight years since the U.S. managed anti-democratic coup in Kiev the fascist ideology has deeply infiltrated all Ukrainian government structures. It will be hard for the Ukrainians to remove it even as its failures become obvious.

The Russian forces will probably take another four weeks to destroy the Ukrainian units at the Donetsk front. The Russian command will then have to decide which parts of the Ukraine it will want to keep under control. Next to Donetsk and Luhansk the region north of Crimea is a likely candidate. Odessa and Dnipro may also be still on the menu. The regions can be kept as statelets under local control or form a confederation that may well institutionalize a new country.

Anything beyond that depends on the willingness of the U.S. proxy government in Kiev to submit to Russia's demands. Russia can leave it at that or it can continue to mow the grass until none is left.

[Heracleum Persicum]

F50B4F70-7004-4133-AF9D-FCFA59E2EFD5.jpeg

A reasonably detailed US sitrep. It seems to draw from The Saker in places. The map is French; legend is in the link.

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2022/03/u ... .html#more

The Russian command has decided to now concentrate on enveloping and destroying Ukraine's main forces at the Donetsk front. These are the most heavy equipped and most experienced units of the Ukrainian army. Since last fall some 60,000 men had been assembled there for a full fledged war on Donetsk, an attack that the Russian operation successfully preempted.

It will probably take a few days for the Russian forces to regroup and resupply for that next phase of the war. I expect it to start around the end of this week.

The U.S. and Polish military are helping to smuggle small arms stuff through the western Ukrainian boarder. These are anti-tank missiles, old short range anti-air missiles as well as machine guns, mortars and ammunition. This is equipment for a guerilla war against an occupation force. But except for the east and maybe some parts in the south the Russian forces do not plan to occupy anything.

Those regions are steppe, very flat with little woods, where one can see an approaching enemy from miles away. It will be extremely difficult for a guerilla force to survive there. That is likely the reason why the Russian forces have done little to interrupt the arms smuggling into western Ukraine. (Those smuggled weapons will for years haunt the 'western' Europeans as they are certain to proliferate to right-wing extremist groups all over the continent.)

The general task for the whole military operation as set out by the Russian command was to de-militarize and to de-nazify the Ukraine.

The material de-militarization of the Ukraine is mostly done. During the next few weeks the Russian air and long range artillery forces will finish that task. The Ukraine would have to completely rearm, starting at about zero, should it want to regain significant military capabilities. It is hard to see how it will ever be able to finance that.

The de-militarization of the main forces of the Ukrainian army will happen in the Donbas cauldron. The units there will have to give up or they will be destroyed by the materially vastly superior Russian forces.

The de-nazification of the Ukraine has proven to be more difficult. The main fascist units of the Azov regiment were caught up in Mariupol where several thousand of them have been or will be eliminated. More fascist units at the Donetzk front will also soon be taken out. But during the eight years since the U.S. managed anti-democratic coup in Kiev the fascist ideology has deeply infiltrated all Ukrainian government structures. It will be hard for the Ukrainians to remove it even as its failures become obvious.

The Russian forces will probably take another four weeks to destroy the Ukrainian units at the Donetsk front. The Russian command will then have to decide which parts of the Ukraine it will want to keep under control. Next to Donetsk and Luhansk the region north of Crimea is a likely candidate. Odessa and Dnipro may also be still on the menu. The regions can be kept as statelets under local control or form a confederation that may well institutionalize a new country.

Anything beyond that depends on the willingness of the U.S. proxy government in Kiev to submit to Russia's demands. Russia can leave it at that or it can continue to mow the grass until none is left.

map.png (2.34 MiB) Viewed 7608 times

Looking at the above map makes clear What Putin wants

He not into conquering Ukraine, he occupying Ukraine/Russian border territory

Militarily much easier as next to Russia and can be hit from Russian territory, easy logistic, and, will do the job pressuring Ukraine to settle

Each time Ukraine forces concentrate, move, to border region, a few Russian cruise missile hit Kiev or other back country so that Ukraine forces must rush back

Above map says all

.

[Nonc Hilaire]

Vid starts past the interesting testimony to elude the Google censors. Rewind to the start.

rLZ2ZzoD-W0
https://youtu.be/rLZ2ZzoD-W0

[Doc]

Vid starts past the interesting testimony to elude the Google censors. Rewind to the start.

rLZ2ZzoD-W0
https://youtu.be/rLZ2ZzoD-W0

14:50 long seems to start from the beginning.

Patrick Lancaster previously associated with reporting Russian propaganda from Ukraine

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2022/02 ... he-donbas/

Though he may have been fooled by the staged vehicles and bodies

[Nonc Hilaire]

14:50 long seems to start from the beginning.

The vid is scrolled past the testimony. It’s Ukranians explaining how the civilian destruction was caused by Ukraine and their Azov nazis. Russia was attacking a factory at some distance.

https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Bellingcat

[Typhoon]

Thanks NH , probably the case .. intelligent article

Conspiracy theory nonsense.

Thierry Meyssan

Meyssan has been noted as using cross-citations of other conspiracy theorists' works in order to lend the appearance of credibility to his ideas.

Ad hominem fallacy. You should know by now that Wikipedia is politically controlled.

Sure. By the Reptilians and the Illuminati.

Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar.
And an invasion is just an invasion.

The Ukraine chronology is accurate and can be verified. No conspiracy no theory.

It is and it can?

Well, I look forward to reading the to-be-posted chronology documentation so that I may verify it for myself.

Still waiting for a link to the claimed Ukraine chronology documents.

I have posted a chronology. You were unable to dispute it.

Where?

[Nonc Hilaire]

Conspiracy theory nonsense.

Thierry Meyssan

Ad hominem fallacy. You should know by now that Wikipedia is politically controlled.

Sure. By the Reptilians and the Illuminati.

Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar.
And an invasion is just an invasion.

The Ukraine chronology is accurate and can be verified. No conspiracy no theory.

It is and it can?

Well, I look forward to reading the to-be-posted chronology documentation so that I may verify it for myself.

Still waiting for a link to the claimed Ukraine chronology documents.

I have posted a chronology. You were unable to dispute it.

Where?

It was the basis of the op.
https://www.voltairenet.org/article216293.html

Kiev attacked their own citizens in the Donbass Feb. 17. Russia staged an emergency rescue operation Feb. 24, a full week after the Ukraine and the Azov nazis started ethnic cleansing of their own Russian speaking citizens.

People have not forgotten it was a US deep state coup of the legitimate Ukraine government by Victoria Neuland and Eric Ciaramella that installed the Rothschild/WEF funded Zelensky puppet government in the first place.

[Doc]

Ad hominem fallacy. You should know by now that Wikipedia is politically controlled.

Sure. By the Reptilians and the Illuminati.

Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar.
And an invasion is just an invasion.

The Ukraine chronology is accurate and can be verified. No conspiracy no theory.

It is and it can?

Well, I look forward to reading the to-be-posted chronology documentation so that I may verify it for myself.

Still waiting for a link to the claimed Ukraine chronology documents.

I have posted a chronology. You were unable to dispute it.

Where?

It was the basis of the op.
https://www.voltairenet.org/article216293.html

Kiev attacked their own citizens in the Donbass Feb. 17. Russia staged an emergency rescue operation Feb. 24, a full week after the Ukraine and the Azov nazis started ethnic cleansing of their own Russian speaking citizens.

People have not forgotten it was a US deep state coup of the legitimate Ukraine government by Victoria Neuland and Eric Ciaramella that installed the Rothschild/WEF funded Zelensky puppet government in the first place.

As far as who attacked who... I remember watching the news back in the 90's There was a story from Bosnia about a Bosnian funeral that was hit with artillery. But the reporter wasn't having any of it and reported that the artillery was fired from behind Bosnian lines. So I tend to discount such stories Outside of the people that were there no one will ever know for sure who did what.

Zelensky's Model is Justin Trudeau. That is who he has publicly stated he looks up to. So yeah WEF. Soros has also been heavily involved in Ukraine politics as well as Russia before his NGOs were kicked out of Russia by Putin. Maybe that is why US intel hates Putin so much.

Apparently US intel knows pretty much everything that goes on in the Kremlin and one thing I am pretty sure of is that Putin is the target of a very sophisticated Psy-op. Putin have arrested several of his top aids because the Biden Admin has made no effort to hide that they know what is going on in the Kremlin. They are intentionally trying to make him paranoid and isolated. I saw Gen Keene last night basically calling the Biden Admin a bunch of wimps because they are not being aggressive enough towards Russia. Which is completely BS. He said that Biden is afraid on what happens if Putin gets to the end of his rope.. AS far as I can tell the Biden Admin wants a nuclear war to avoid the election at the end of this year *AND* the corruption scandal that his son is about to be indicted for.

Government does not work the way people think it does. It could work that way, but it takes a large majority of the people agreeing on how to fix it to make it so.

[Nonc Hilaire]

Ukranians ethnic cleansing of their citizens and the Russians stepping in to defend a week later was verified by OSCE. https://www.osce.org/

See the op and the interviews with Ukies who were interviewed. This is evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.

Even in fog of war, journalism is not that hard to discern. Who, what, where, when, why are present in specific detail. Names, dates, equipment - lots of precision. Journalists also publish OSINT and whistleblower reports.

Agitprop is also fairly easy to discern. Appeal to base emotion, logical fallacies, name calling and a dearth of verifiable information. FUD rules with lying politicians and the invention of phony authorities.

[Doc]

Ukranians ethnic cleansing of their citizens and the Russians stepping in to defend a week later was verified by OSCE. https://www.osce.org/

See the op and the interviews with Ukies who were interviewed. This is evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.

Even in fog of war, journalism is not that hard to discern. Who, what, where, when, why are present in specific detail. Names, dates, equipment - lots of precision. Journalists also publish OSINT and whistleblower reports.

Agitprop is also fairly easy to discern. Appeal to base emotion, logical fallacies, name calling and a dearth of verifiable information. FUD rules with lying politicians and the invention of phony authorities.

Facts are most often lost in the fog of war.

You should have linked directly to the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe article on ethnic cleansing At least where they confirmed it.

As far as Ukrainians in the video you can always find people for whatever reason that will say anything.

[Heracleum Persicum]

Ukranians ethnic cleansing of their citizens and the Russians stepping in to defend a week later was verified by OSCE. https://www.osce.org/

See the op and the interviews with Ukies who were interviewed. This is evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.

Even in fog of war, journalism is not that hard to discern. Who, what, where, when, why are present in specific detail. Names, dates, equipment - lots of precision. Journalists also publish OSINT and whistleblower reports.

Agitprop is also fairly easy to discern. Appeal to base emotion, logical fallacies, name calling and a dearth of verifiable information. FUD rules with lying politicians and the invention of phony authorities.

Facts are most often lost in the fog of war.

You should have linked directly to the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe article on ethnic cleansing At least where they confirmed it.

As far as Ukrainians in the video you can always find people for whatever reason that will say anything.

https://www.rt.com/russia/553130-russia ... sce-leave/

Russia tells OSCE to leave Ukraine

Moscow accused the organization’s monitoring mission of a “selective approach to facts”

.