The War against the "non-existent" Self

[Parodite]

SH keeps amazing me with his brilliant nonsense, on-par with his desperado attack on free will.

iWCRQxmp-fU

[Miss_Faucie_Fishtits]

Sam's response to the solipsistic self-regarding identitarian uprising is to nuke the very idea of the self. A similar conflict to his concept of spirituality vs. religion........

[Parodite]

Sam's response to the solipsistic self-regarding identitarian uprising is to nuke the very idea of the self. A similar conflict to his concept of spirituality vs. religion........

As he does with his attacks on free will, so he does with the self: define it as something resembling a dictator god and then take it down. Problem is most people won't define free will and the self in such an inflated grotesque way.

It begs the question, at least to me, why somebody like SH would confuse free will and self with an omnipotent first-cause God or semi-God. My guess is that in our solipsistic reality something temps and even compels us to believe were are actually God... which then inflates and needs to implode or explode all by itself. Maybe SH, in his lone solo-cabin intellect felt too god-like at one point.. and now tries to self-mutilate (!) into a more humble near-nothingness. "How to send God on a holiday against his will" Tuf

[Nonc Hilaire]

Self is god, but god is not self.

[Heracleum Persicum]

Self is god, but god is not self.

Self.jpeg (94.54 KiB) Viewed 2789 times

Americans spend less than 50 minutes a day with their family, even less with friends .. are mostly by themselves.

That explains a lot of things
.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

I'm placing this in the "war against the self" thread because it is one of numerous examples how there are many whose emotional regulation is all mediated externally now.

[Parodite]

I feel sorry for these children. Inducing unwarranted existential fears into the new generation is imho a form of child abuse and one of the worst investments in the future. Halloween is no longer enough to shave off imaginary dangers. Rising sea levels, oceans of fear.

[Miss_Faucie_Fishtits]

I wonder if religion can be expressed in terms of Jung's theory of the collective consciousness. Christianity offers us Jesus as the human side of God, but what about the God side of the individual human being? Especially now that we suppress any uncomfortable manifestations of the unconsciousness if it seeks to work against the romanticist vision of the emancipated self, free from the constraints of religion, culture and community. Free from any outside authority, but not free from the eschaton of utopian paradise apparently....;>.......

[Nonc Hilaire]

I wonder if religion can be expressed in terms of Jung's theory of the collective consciousness. Christianity offers us Jesus as the human side of God, but what about the God side of the individual human being? Especially now that we suppress any uncomfortable manifestations of the unconsciousness if it seeks to work against the romanticist vision of the emancipated self, free from the constraints of religion, culture and community. Free from any outside authority, but not free from the eschaton of utopian paradise apparently....;>.......

Understanding the Holy Spirit as a universal human ‘Christ Consciousness’ indwelling within each individual is consistent with Jung.

[Miss_Faucie_Fishtits]

I wonder if religion can be expressed in terms of Jung's theory of the collective consciousness. Christianity offers us Jesus as the human side of God, but what about the God side of the individual human being? Especially now that we suppress any uncomfortable manifestations of the unconsciousness if it seeks to work against the romanticist vision of the emancipated self, free from the constraints of religion, culture and community. Free from any outside authority, but not free from the eschaton of utopian paradise apparently....;>.......

Understanding the Holy Spirit as a universal human ‘Christ Consciousness’ indwelling within each individual is consistent with Jung.

I like that modern neurology and cognitive science is making a better case for this than simply revisiting the old cartesian dualism bit......'>.....

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

I feel sorry for these children. Inducing unwarranted existential fears into the new generation is imho a form of child abuse and one of the worst investments in the future. Halloween is no longer enough to shave off imaginary dangers. Rising sea levels, oceans of fear.

Yes there is pity, definitely.

It's very hard to take the assertion of existential devastation seriously when she makes it clear the most important subject of the video is herself.

"How do I save myself/how do I squirm out of this mess?" may be the most common and relatable questions but doesn't explain why we should favor her hysteria over any one else.

We can easily remove the concern for the earth and have little trouble in imaging her breaking down while personalizing any amount of problems. That itself is a huge problem.

[noddy]

young women getting emotional and hysterical is about as shocking as young men getting insecure and aggressive.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

young women getting emotional and hysterical is about as shocking as young men getting insecure and aggressive.

fair point.

I can try to articulate better:

That may be the case but something has gone wrong if that energy is diffused like in the video above.

Just as I like my stupid, insecure and aggressive young men fighting over stupid things. I'm very concerned if and when they turn stupid and aggressive over the implications of artificial intelligence.

...maybe it's the difference between your run of the mill annoying activist and a fleet of unabombers.

[noddy]

some vague disconneted thoughts.

10 billion humans, numbers that cant be properly visualised, our selfness doesnt really exist anymore, every single aspect of everything about us, their will be millions of others with the same characteristics , never have we been less special, less important.

even meritocracy, which used to be a good thing, picking the best of the options rather than the most well connected has turned against us, with an endless churn of disposable "bests", sourced from this huge pool of irrelevance, american corporations now choose the best, burn them out, then grab the fresh meat out of the factory university system, while all the mediocres can cry in a puddle, hoping their lives dont become too much shitter.

this causes the middle class to feel insecure and all sorts of backlashes to happen - from the trump mediocres to the anti capitalist left wing mediocres, everyone knows this is the game going on, its no longer the lazy or the stupid who miss out, relatively speaking, we are all lazy and stupid now! 10% of 10 billion is more than enough high quality workers for globalised efficiencies/.

anyway, this oversupply of humanity does also have consequences in our sense of the future, and the intensity of this fear is bubbling up everywhere.

the environment is the one outlet for this emotional response that can tackle the curly questions in a tactful way.

the real game going on here is the overwhelming need to keep humans as special, and not disposable, while acknowledging their are too many of us and most of us are disposable.

passive aggresive, middle class sheltered culture cant have that conversation, but they can deal with it all via protecting the environment, and letting the other icky things happen as an unfortunate side effect, best not discussed.

sensitive young women, who let their cynical detachment down and try and embrace all this, are bound to get overwhelmed by it.

not everyone is going to be able to witness the mass death we got coming over the next decade when more and more work out the future is so much less than than our wildest nightmares.

malthus might be wrong in terms of abstract facts - we could easily double or triple the population if we reduced the food and housing to bare minimum requirement for sustenance.

but malthus is dead right when it comes to people like me who like fields of barley on land growing me beer, big lumps of meat, acreage with dogs, decent space between me and the next bald monkey.

how do we get off the endless growth treadmill, how do we watch millions upon millions die in the over populated regions when the west "protects the environment" by backing off on immigration.

or do we head towards eating a teaspoon of insect paste on our government issued bowl of rice, living in a one room concrete box.

how do you keep humans special "Selfs" while simultaneously being detached from all the horror happening to the unlucky ones born in the wrong places.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

[noddy]

That would be middle class mediocre left wing flavour who realises he is competing with the world and wont succeed

Cant say that because it would be racist so its hand waving about fascists instead

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

Really not promoting all the weimar 2.0 stuff

It's another narrative example of 20th century thinking being attempted as a means of control in a world where those old brakes no longer work.

Weimar, scarcity; why will you not let me control you like it's the 20th century?

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

some vague disconneted thoughts.

10 billion humans, numbers that cant be properly visualised, our selfness doesnt really exist anymore, every single aspect of everything about us, their will be millions of others with the same characteristics , never have we been less special, less important.

even meritocracy, which used to be a good thing, picking the best of the options rather than the most well connected has turned against us, with an endless churn of disposable "bests", sourced from this huge pool of irrelevance, american corporations now choose the best, burn them out, then grab the fresh meat out of the factory university system, while all the mediocres can cry in a puddle, hoping their lives dont become too much shitter.

this causes the middle class to feel insecure and all sorts of backlashes to happen - from the trump mediocres to the anti capitalist left wing mediocres, everyone knows this is the game going on, its no longer the lazy or the stupid who miss out, relatively speaking, we are all lazy and stupid now! 10% of 10 billion is more than enough high quality workers for globalised efficiencies/.

anyway, this oversupply of humanity does also have consequences in our sense of the future, and the intensity of this fear is bubbling up everywhere.

the environment is the one outlet for this emotional response that can tackle the curly questions in a tactful way.

the real game going on here is the overwhelming need to keep humans as special, and not disposable, while acknowledging their are too many of us and most of us are disposable.

passive aggresive, middle class sheltered culture cant have that conversation, but they can deal with it all via protecting the environment, and letting the other icky things happen as an unfortunate side effect, best not discussed.

sensitive young women, who let their cynical detachment down and try and embrace all this, are bound to get overwhelmed by it.

not everyone is going to be able to witness the mass death we got coming over the next decade when more and more work out the future is so much less than than our wildest nightmares.

malthus might be wrong in terms of abstract facts - we could easily double or triple the population if we reduced the food and housing to bare minimum requirement for sustenance.

but malthus is dead right when it comes to people like me who like fields of barley on land growing me beer, big lumps of meat, acreage with dogs, decent space between me and the next bald monkey.

how do we get off the endless growth treadmill, how do we watch millions upon millions die in the over populated regions when the west "protects the environment" by backing off on immigration.

or do we head towards eating a teaspoon of insect paste on our government issued bowl of rice, living in a one room concrete box.

how do you keep humans special "Selfs" while simultaneously being detached from all the horror happening to the unlucky ones born in the wrong places.

For the sake of argument, let's grant that every one of these points is 100% true-- and many would be hard to argue against--

It doesn't explain the lack of pressure valve, even for a 14th century style contraction which we may have already entered.

All our mighty and (sometimes) brilliant men have dun goofed in planning that out.

Or maybe they expected their posterity to figure that part out and adapt to circumstances, but instead we have a lot of cargo cult thinking going on.

--------

So yes, okay it's looking like cheap energy is becoming a scarcity again; and yes there are looming food and housing concerns but all this is said from one side of the mouth while the other side speaks about how to maintain the economic-political order of the world wars, which are closer to a century ago now. "10% of 10 billion is more than enough high quality workers for globalised efficiencies"...of that order-- the missing enthymeme to that sentence.

I am not even knocking it, and know I distinctly benefit from it. I can also (and easily) dread the alternatives, one can half-sketch.

But what was a good idea at the time -- in order to stop industrialized total warfare where every aspect was its own cell, the victors needed to buy up every moving part (sort of like bronze age warfare where the victor got to pick all the smart people for slaves)-- it has come to be the singular stratagem of how to operate the world. It is increasingly short-sighted, and confounds one's ability to pick out where the self-fulfilling prophecy for scarcity ends and where the real deprivations begin.

[noddy]

Everything is control , unless you are living laizze fair - then the consequences of that are conspiracy.

i really dont have any brain space for the globalist stuff, Its seems comicaly out of touch with your own urban middle class, who are the actual drivers on all this.

blame the david attenbourough documentaries maybe, that would make more sense.

their is no sinsiter control on this, it is the consequences of what has been bubbling away in the city dwellers space for the last few generations - those that live in concrete boxes and eat manufactured food and live their lives through tv shows.

they are the magority, we will live in the consequences of their priorities and choices.

these are the people that want home owners associations stopping their neighbours from lowering property values, the people whos entire lives are inside the mass organisation of humanity, with all its rules and regulations , controlling every aspect of their days.

they cant even pretend to imagine how silly thinking you are free is - the media and their parties are the only things in their lives that freedom means anything.

hence the fixation on the media and their genitals

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

I'm not smuggling 'sinister' into the equation here.

If we want to talk about the social science behind it, then I do think the most successful strategy of the past 80 years-- buy up all competition, including or especially the opposition-- is part & parcel. What was invariably successful over and over and over again is having diminishing returns and a bottleneck effect.

[noddy]

yeh fair enough, understand that angle.

no doubts all systems tend towards oligarcy at best, monopoly at worst.

locally this is fine, when it happens globally, it smells quite putrid indeed.

[Parodite]

I don't think any of the now biggy-problems have their origin in general developments or universal characteristics. Just a few bad ideas, old school bribery, ie the actions of a handful of incompetent career politicians in key positions had huge consquences down the road, making a difference in war-peace, poverty-wealth, ecological disaster-protection.

[NapLajoieonSteroids]

I don't think any of the now biggy-problems have their origin in general developments or universal characteristics.

I think it is more a case of functional dependencies. Origins, development and characteristics puts us in weeds of making it a causation (narrative) word game. That being said, I don't think that excludes the problem you mention of a proliferation of newer formulas for bribery, rent-seeking, and a general revenge or upsurge for the advocates of centrally planned scheming.

[Doc]

SH keeps amazing me with his brilliant nonsense, on-par with his desperado attack on free will.

iWCRQxmp-fU

"we all scream for ice cream" Therefore we all exist.

[Parodite]

I don't think any of the now biggy-problems have their origin in general developments or universal characteristics.

I think it is more a case of functional dependencies. Origins, development and characteristics puts us in weeds of making it a causation (narrative) word game. That being said, I don't think that excludes the problem you mention of a proliferation of newer formulas for bribery, rent-seeking, and a general revenge or upsurge for the advocates of centrally planned scheming.

Also, what appears to be happening is that our biological nature does change, evolve.. but we don't know how exactly nor at what speed. Hence how functional dependencies re the environment change and evolve accordingly is totally unpredictable. In the nature nurture scheme: nature changes slowly, nurture fast and sometimes erratically, randomly, cataclysmic even. So the general/universal I take to be a relative constant. The specifics that change the nurture ball game especially in our generation: science and technology. Change at incredible speed!

From sticks to nuclear bombs, from locally separated tribes to a globalized interconnected society. From viruses causing local extinction to a potentially global onslaught etc. From natural climate change to a "climate-hell" mass-psychosis followed by a misappropriation of financial resources fueled by political interests rather than science. Age old tribal warfare popping up despite technological progress and mass-education.

Comfort, peace and healthy food are naturally attractive, but we came here only thanks to brutal survival red in tooth in claw. We are all products of Hell. A bit of relative and occasional heaven growing out of it all, is a bonus of course. What can Pure-Heaven produce? Not much, although decadence and nihilism will do fine most likely.

Hell as the antidote to lethal boredom. In the beginning there was idle time etc. At the end of eternity there was light.