NapLajoieonSteroids wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2023 2:47 am
I think it's fair to say that just because someone has a partisan angle doesn't make them suspicious or incorrect.
That's how I listened to his exposition too.
At the same time there is a difference between marshalling a case as a lawyer would, by arranging a tremendous amount of evidence to support a theory; and inferring a theory from the evidence at hand as a historian-in-the-broad is (hopefully) trained to do.
I interpret it closer to the former; not just because of the style, manner and forum for the speech but in his use of certain material that I'm aware of as an interested laymen sprinkled in there (and at this point I'm in the middle of session 2.)
I'm starting from near zero on the history of Islam, Quran of which I know very little. Did read the Quran however, obviously in English, but no matter the glasses and filters I put on, it left me with a sense of revulsion and disgust. Like reading the diary of a psychotic mentally ill person, extreme emotions and mood swings. That probably tells more about me, I guess.
In my teenage years I read most of the old and new testament. The old testament I found boring, obscurantist, filled with events that didn't seem very awesomely important but were made to appear magic by adding meta-physical context I just couldn’t buy into. The new testament felt like a paddo trip, but I did like the Jesus persona. A good, innocent guy who was tortured to death for the mere fact of wanting to help others, teaching friendship, love, sharing, forgiving. Made sense. As for the mentioned miracles... probably not but that is no reason to throw away the baby with the magic bath tub water.
Years ago I made some small inroads into the historical Jesus. Reading theology I found unbearably boring however, word salads without end.
As for my own interpretations, of course I think it's better to be a Christian- I am a Christian. And obviously I have no special attachment to Muslim histography, records and to the Quran itself.
I do think there is a very, very interesting story to the construction of the Quran that we just don't have. Maybe the greatest disappointment of the region at the end of the late classical period is that our scribes in the 2 empires for the area both ended up inveterate liars. Both were certainly in a period where the politically correct answer was more important to record than actual chronology and accounts or facts. Why that is a question unto itself but it leaves us in the dark for source material where all this activity is taking place.
There must be a lot left to be discovered about Islam and Quran. In general, empirical science is what ultimately will keep our beliefs and theories grounded enough in reality to not one day find ourselves flying on the back of a horse with wings, landing on the air strip of
Al Quds with a mad crowd welcoming, devouring us, forcing you to then run for your life over water, back in time, into the womb of your mother again… who you overheard whispering, just before all went silent, again, forever:
Read my lips, I never had sex with any guy, none!
For a male child being told you never had, never will have a biological father... must be rather harsh. It makes the soul search places nobody went before. Finding, reconnecting with your archetypical father and mother seems to me a core thread of these religions.
Finding leftover skulls 'n bones of Jesus and his family, who just died like any other human soul, would not be material to found a new world religion on. We need magic and miracles. It would also be bad for tourism in Israel.
