The rise of BRICS

This too shall pass.
noddy
Posts: 11347
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:09 pm

The rise of BRICS

Post by noddy »

Almost 20 countries have applied to join BRICS-Russia’s🇷🇺 Deputy Foreign Minister

The list of applicants include:

Saudi Arabia🇸🇦
UAE🇦🇪
Egypt🇪🇬
Algeria🇩🇿
Bahrain🇧🇭
Indonesia🇮🇩
Argentina🇦🇷
Mexico🇲🇽
Nigeria🇳🇬
Bangladesh🇧🇩
Venezuela🇻🇪
Iran🇮🇷
Kazakhstan🇰🇿
Turkey🇹🇷
Syria🇸🇾
Nicaragua🇳🇮
and France apparently too.

Their is absolutely no doubt the west is in decline, their is no doubt increased trading without the US dollar is going to keep accelerating and the American dollar is going to get way more inflationary and unstable.

Their is also a few too many authoritarian petrol stations in this group to really sell much to each other.
All of them added together is a market not quite as big as the US alone - nevermind the rest of the west.

Like Brazil and Nuclear Fission, Id say they are about 20 years away from taking over.
ultracrepidarian
User avatar
Typhoon
Posts: 27432
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:42 pm
Location: 関西

Re: The rise of BRICS

Post by Typhoon »

The joke that my former Brazilian colleagues told me, now decades ago,
"Brazil is the country of the future!
. . . and always will be."
still applies and extends to the BRICs as well
"BRICs are the nations of the future!
. . . and always will be."
A bit of pedantry:
Are you referring to the nuclear power station near Angra dos Reis, Brazil, nicknamed the "Firefly" for constantly turning on and off?
Or perhaps nuclear fusion?
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
noddy
Posts: 11347
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:09 pm

Re: The rise of BRICS

Post by noddy »

yes to the first, and it was a quickly typed brain fart on the second.

fusion.
ultracrepidarian
noddy
Posts: 11347
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:09 pm

Re: The rise of BRICS

Post by noddy »

the B and the R part of BRICS is a bit wobbly.

https://www.agenzianova.com/en/news/Bra ... etersburg/
Brazil will not participate in the International Economic Forum organized by the president of Russia, Vladimir Putin, between 14 and 17 June in St. Petersburg. This was announced by the Brazilian president, Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, in a tweet after a telephone conversation with his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin. “I just got off the phone with the President of Russia, Vladimir Putin. I thanked him for the invitation to participate in the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum, but I replied that at the moment I cannot go to Russia. However, I reiterated Brazil's readiness, together with India, Indonesia and China, to dialogue with both parties to the conflict in search of peace ”in Ukraine",
the I was always flaky, India will never close off markets because of other peoples ideology.

they dont care what the west wants, this is true, they also dont care what Russia or China wants.


so we are back to China, which is probably not going to shoot itself in the foot by destroying linkages to 1 billion people in the biggest markets.

they will attack US dollar dominance, and use other currencies - in as much as other people want to hold Chinese currency, which cant be used in China.
ultracrepidarian
User avatar
Parodite
Posts: 5684
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:43 pm

Re: The rise of BRICS

Post by Parodite »

Who wil be the King of Bric?
Bricking is often the result of hardware issues caused by physical damage; however, software problems can also prevent a device from starting up, especially if you make changes to important system files. Therefore, any form of modding, hacking, or rooting your devices carries a risk of bricking. Accidentally downloading malware can also cause a device to become bricked.
Not lot of real big risk for anyone to get "bricked"; life moves on, one way or other.

The West is not in decline, it is changing like everything else. There is no West-forever, nor a BRIC-forever. Everything is on death-row and will be bricked into the wall sooner or later.

Hard to predict who ends up in front of death-row, facing the eternal music. Obviously, some inmates (scared, envious) just want Jo West be pushed to the front and executed before they are.

Caveat: the faster your enemies get bricked, the sooner it will be your turn. Extinction Rebellion may be the last and final brick in the wall, just after Brics and Friends. They are good at speeding up the process.

Trying to avoid death is a loosing strategy. The art of resurrection seems more fruitful and a better investment. The West is a product of resurrection and its engine is permanent renewal. Traditional societies and autocratic cultures obsessed with permanence, continuity and power are less equipped to arise from their own ashes.
Deep down I'm very superficial
User avatar
NapLajoieonSteroids
Posts: 8433
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:04 pm

Re: The rise of BRICS

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

Looking over the list, when it comes time to put the cards on the table, a number of those names will fold.

The ideal for a number of them is to pull an India or Brazil and play both sides...maybe if they took it more seriously things would be different.

Don't get France's exact play here. But who knows when the guy in office refers to himself as Jupiter.

Maybe it's a good thing to have France's foot in the door, to maintain its stormy African relations; there is the forever Gallic dream of getting out from under Anglos and Germans.
User avatar
Heracleum Persicum
Posts: 11639
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:38 pm

Re: The rise of BRICS

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

.

This no rocket science, just looks @ economic, military , literacy, culture history of last 200+ yrs

Looking at all the above for post WW2 , anyone can see the real story

Real story is, that Hitler started the "mother of all unintended consequences"

Heart of Hitlerism was "white race (meaning Europeans)" should rule the world (and Germans on top of that white race)

Defeat of Hitler meant (and lead) to : NO, White race will not rule the world

What really happened in WW2 was that "white man world rule" started "unwinding", thanks to Americans (another unintended consequence)

Who the F"ck was Iran's Mossadegh to Challenge the British empire before WW2 ? post WW2 Mossadegh beat Brits in UN and world court , on live TV

India , China , Iran , Africa, latin America and all direct or indirect Western colonies rose up

"long story short" we now where China and India and Iran and Africa and Latin America dont take western call

Said many time here, the real loser of WW2 was the "white man domination of world" .. Brits lost all, so did french and Dutch
and Belgians etc etc


Non-western countries growing much faster than West .. in generation or two, Western block will be 2nd player in the world

US president, in his 50 yrs of political life, has voted YES to all American wars .. now, he realizes things have changed and changing fast .. the "egghead" Neoconservatists not yet there.


America must concentrate on it's "strength", economy, innovation entrepreneurship etc etc .. American strength is not military power .. military power is neutralized .. yes American has many nukes , but what is the difference between having 5000 nuke and having 5 (primitive) nuke .. when push comet to shove, 2-3 nuke "BANG" closes the file .. with new (hypersonic) missiles that manoeuvre until the last minute before hitting, that fly @ 15 speed of sound, who needs nuke subs ?

A good sample is Iran case .. the most warmonger US president , Bush and Cheney, even they did not dare attack Iran when Iran was much weaker .. now , pretty much nobody can attack Iran.

That rubbish confronting China and Russia and Iran and India will only hasten western retreat .. now no Prétention anymore west fighting for democracy and free world
noddy
Posts: 11347
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:09 pm

Re: The rise of BRICS

Post by noddy »

what if the reasons South Africa and Indonesia dont have thriving trade are not because the big bad anglo is stopping them
ultracrepidarian
User avatar
NapLajoieonSteroids
Posts: 8433
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:04 pm

Re: The rise of BRICS

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »



User avatar
NapLajoieonSteroids
Posts: 8433
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:04 pm

Re: The rise of BRICS

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

more from that thread:

Image

User avatar
Parodite
Posts: 5684
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:43 pm

Re: The rise of BRICS

Post by Parodite »

Ok, HP let me take a ride on your racist "white man no longer on top" hypothesis! It is not difficult to sell racism :oops: :

It is indeed a weird correlation and begs the question: the lighter the skin tone... the more they end up on top! The darkest sub-Saharans… where are they, where were they? Well, clearly, they were left behind... while the lighter skins speeded up into the future conquering worlds, creating empires. Especially mellow-white knucklehead Europeans spread out mentally and physically big time, creating a New World overseas and dominating the rest in no time.

Whites starting the industrial revolution, creating modern nation states, ending slavery (a world-wide bad habit until then) starting democracies, free speech, free markets, emancipation of women and all that Jazz. Better in everything, war and genocides included as a downside. Jews, olive-white skinned, fled north where their talents were further developed and challenged. They survived many expulsions and pogroms in White Eurostan which made them have to participate in a brutal white euro-competition, further developing all kinds of survival skills without which the state of Israel would never have come into existance and - so far - persevere.

WW1 and WW2 were basically white men fighting other white men. A white-man’s civil war. The German Nazis, with their Ubermenschliches potential and technical prowess, were like an auto-immune disorder in the white-euro family. The Russian fighting machine and Bolshevik commies that made a serious dent in world history: also those damn whites again. Japanese, lighter skinned Asians, the only serious contenders during WW2. Asians in general love lighter skin tones signalling beauty, wealth, and triggering respect.

In short, there is a reason that a light-white skin color is associated with success: it is because the White-Club is the toughest league to live in and survive. It brings out the best and the worst. It is Champions League, UFC, World Chess Championship, HD IQ farming, F1 racing, the Holocaust, colonialism, subduing and exploiting many other peoples around the world... all in one. These facts beg for an explanation and is not a matter of opinion.

I myself have African roots, so it won't hurt to admit that whites are just a brand of relocated black Africans who lost their melanin over time in more northern regions. The first African migrants that migrated north and able to survive in a much colder climate became the now extinct Neanderthal. They developed extreme survival skills. In the colder "white north", they were however overrun by another wave of successful African migrants: Homo Sapiens.

Here's a theory why whites dominate:

These two African migrant powerhouses, neanderthal and Homo Sapiens, did mix their DNA, which resulted in an extremely potent hybride brown-light African: the indo-european western Homo Sapiens Neanderthaliensis Expanditus. These tribes from east to west started to compete and fight, resulting in enormous successive empires coming and going, spanning half the globe. From Genghis Kahn to Persian Empire, Roman Empire to the New World child of Western Europe, the USA. Western light brown-white Euros now conquered pretty much the rest of the world; if not by force, then with clever money and trade.

The reason these "whitening" melanin-losing migrating African tribes colonized the rest of the world is not just of white racism, arrogance real or perceived, but because people who migrate don't stay @home where everything stays the same and not much new is learned. Instead, travelers moving into new territories are continuously exposed to new challenges. It requires more fighting and survival capabilities, the constant need to invent solutions to new problems. Also, once you push the wheels of change and they start rolling, the need to adapt and invent new solutions increases exponentially.

People who stay on the move will always win. Those who stay behind and at home go extinct. Or as another white winner Albert Einstein once remarked: "Life is like riding a bicycle: to keep your balance you have to keep moving."
Deep down I'm very superficial
User avatar
Nonc Hilaire
Posts: 6207
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:28 am

Re: The rise of BRICS

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

It’s interesting to view the current situation as an extension of WWI & WWII by other means.

Start with the founding of the Federal Reserve and follow the money.
“Christ has no body now but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks with compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks among His people to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses His creation.”

Teresa of Ávila
noddy
Posts: 11347
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:09 pm

Re: The rise of BRICS

Post by noddy »

the only odd thing is westerners feeling like a culture getting together and acquiring resources for itself is a bad thing.

we got 2 thousand years of documeted history that any culture which doesnt organise, and take, is a dead culture walking.

if anyone thinks that whats going on now, is a continuation of western power mongering, they aint seen nothin yet.
ultracrepidarian
User avatar
NapLajoieonSteroids
Posts: 8433
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:04 pm

Re: The rise of BRICS

Post by NapLajoieonSteroids »

A rise of BRICS means an advancement in organizational sophistication.

There can be a million "what abouts" tied to that, sure- some very serious ones. But it still would imply vast territories that don't devolve into competing patron-client networks with boss-men at the top taking their 90% of the cut until some dude knocks them off and starts the process again. Imagine what could be done with better administrative capabilities everywhere?

The rest is just hogwash about safely airing racial resentments and group narcissisms.
User avatar
Heracleum Persicum
Posts: 11639
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:38 pm

Re: The rise of BRICS

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

User avatar
Nonc Hilaire
Posts: 6207
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:28 am

Re: The rise of BRICS

Post by Nonc Hilaire »

noddy wrote: Sun Jun 18, 2023 4:42 am the only odd thing is westerners feeling like a culture getting together and acquiring resources for itself is a bad thing.

we got 2 thousand years of documeted history that any culture which doesnt organise, and take, is a dead culture walking.

if anyone thinks that whats going on now, is a continuation of western power mongering, they aint seen nothin yet.
No, it’s the greedy and immoral Western ‘ends justify the means’ ethos AEB The East India Trading Company. We tend to choose fraud and extortion over fair trade if there is an extra penny to be made.
“Christ has no body now but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks with compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks among His people to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses His creation.”

Teresa of Ávila
User avatar
Typhoon
Posts: 27432
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:42 pm
Location: 関西

Re: The rise of BRICS

Post by Typhoon »

Nonc Hilaire wrote: Sun Jun 18, 2023 2:45 pm
noddy wrote: Sun Jun 18, 2023 4:42 am the only odd thing is westerners feeling like a culture getting together and acquiring resources for itself is a bad thing.

we got 2 thousand years of documeted history that any culture which doesnt organise, and take, is a dead culture walking.

if anyone thinks that whats going on now, is a continuation of western power mongering, they aint seen nothin yet.
No, it’s the greedy and immoral Western ‘ends justify the means’ ethos AEB The East India Trading Company. We tend to choose fraud and extortion over fair trade if there is an extra penny to be made.
On the other hand, Britain's later free-trade policies were very detrimental . . . to Britain.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
User avatar
Typhoon
Posts: 27432
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:42 pm
Location: 関西

Re: The rise of BRICS

Post by Typhoon »

Heracleum Persicum wrote: Sun Jun 18, 2023 2:01 pm .


Losing US Supremacy to China
If one is taking about the total debt / GDP ratio then the above blowhard, pardon me, supposed expert is spot on.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
noddy
Posts: 11347
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:09 pm

Re: The rise of BRICS

Post by noddy »

Nonc Hilaire wrote: Sun Jun 18, 2023 2:45 pm
noddy wrote: Sun Jun 18, 2023 4:42 am the only odd thing is westerners feeling like a culture getting together and acquiring resources for itself is a bad thing.

we got 2 thousand years of documeted history that any culture which doesnt organise, and take, is a dead culture walking.

if anyone thinks that whats going on now, is a continuation of western power mongering, they aint seen nothin yet.
No, it’s the greedy and immoral Western ‘ends justify the means’ ethos AEB The East India Trading Company. We tend to choose fraud and extortion over fair trade if there is an extra penny to be made.
Their is an argument that capitalism only behaved itself in the west when the soviets/chinese were legit threats, which forced a better distribution of money.

This has long faded, so its all robber barrons now.

Im not looking around the BRICS room and seeing much in the way of social paradises, they are all top heavy places run by corruption which leave the bulk of the population poor.

and thats just it - BRICS blaming us, is like us blaming the jews - the society itself has lost the ability to organise, to build, to cooperate.

having your own dollar on the world market isnt going to turn squabbling villagers into wage slave city workers in high rise buildings, living the middle class dream.

--

with the collapse in the world economy and the durian governments/banks using interest rate rises to suck all the last of the money out of the working poor - capitalism is dead man walking anyway.

people are going to get their moral, organised and ehtical societies good n hard, double hard, with penitence cherries on top.
Last edited by noddy on Sun Jun 18, 2023 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ultracrepidarian
User avatar
Typhoon
Posts: 27432
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:42 pm
Location: 関西

Re: The rise of BRICS

Post by Typhoon »

NapLajoieonSteroids wrote: Sun Jun 18, 2023 10:59 am A rise of BRICS means an advancement in organizational sophistication.

There can be a million "what abouts" tied to that, sure- some very serious ones. But it still would imply vast territories that don't devolve into competing patron-client networks with boss-men at the top taking their 90% of the cut until some dude knocks them off and starts the process again. Imagine what could be done with better administrative capabilities everywhere?

The rest is just hogwash about safely airing racial resentments and group narcissisms.
Quite.

Also, we still live in the physical world.
Aside from the notable exceptions of PR China and, to a lesser degree, India, none of these countries have advanced manufacturing capabilities.
As noted previously, they're dependent on exporting resources.

A case study. How has doing business with PR China benefited Brazil?

Economist | Why industrial decline has been so stark in Brazil
No other country has seen manufacturing as a share of GDP vanish so fast
Brazil has become a supplier of raw materials to PR China.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
User avatar
Typhoon
Posts: 27432
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:42 pm
Location: 関西

Re: The rise of BRICS

Post by Typhoon »

noddy wrote: Sun Jun 18, 2023 11:42 pm
Nonc Hilaire wrote: Sun Jun 18, 2023 2:45 pm
noddy wrote: Sun Jun 18, 2023 4:42 am the only odd thing is westerners feeling like a culture getting together and acquiring resources for itself is a bad thing.

we got 2 thousand years of documeted history that any culture which doesnt organise, and take, is a dead culture walking.

if anyone thinks that whats going on now, is a continuation of western power mongering, they aint seen nothin yet.
No, it’s the greedy and immoral Western ‘ends justify the means’ ethos AEB The East India Trading Company. We tend to choose fraud and extortion over fair trade if there is an extra penny to be made.
Their is an argument that capitalism only behaved itself in the west when the soviets/chinese were legit threats, which forced a better distribution of money.

This has long faded, so its all robber barrons now.

Im not looking around the BRICS room and seeing much in the way of social paradises, they are all top heavy places run by corruption which leave the bulk of the population poor.

and thats just it - BRICS blaming us, is like us blaming the jews - the society itself has lost the ability to organise, to build, to cooperate.

having your own dollar on the world market isnt going to turn squabbling villagers into wage slave city workers in high rise buildings, living the middle class dream.

--

with the collapse in the world economy and the durian governments/banks using interest rate rises to suck all the last of the money out of the working poor - capitalism is dead man walking anyway.

people are going to get their moral, organised and ehtical societies good n hard, double hard, with pentinence cherries on top.
Spot on.

Neo-feudalism.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
noddy
Posts: 11347
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:09 pm

Re: The rise of BRICS

Post by noddy »

Heracleum Persicum wrote: Sat Jun 17, 2023 10:09 am .

This no rocket science, just looks @ economic, military , literacy, culture history of last 200+ yrs

Looking at all the above for post WW2 , anyone can see the real story

Real story is, that Hitler started the "mother of all unintended consequences"

Heart of Hitlerism was "white race (meaning Europeans)" should rule the world (and Germans on top of that white race)

Defeat of Hitler meant (and lead) to : NO, White race will not rule the world

What really happened in WW2 was that "white man world rule" started "unwinding", thanks to Americans (another unintended consequence)

Who the F"ck was Iran's Mossadegh to Challenge the British empire before WW2 ? post WW2 Mossadegh beat Brits in UN and world court , on live TV

India , China , Iran , Africa, latin America and all direct or indirect Western colonies rose up

"long story short" we now where China and India and Iran and Africa and Latin America dont take western call

Said many time here, the real loser of WW2 was the "white man domination of world" .. Brits lost all, so did french and Dutch
and Belgians etc etc


Non-western countries growing much faster than West .. in generation or two, Western block will be 2nd player in the world

US president, in his 50 yrs of political life, has voted YES to all American wars .. now, he realizes things have changed and changing fast .. the "egghead" Neoconservatists not yet there.


America must concentrate on it's "strength", economy, innovation entrepreneurship etc etc .. American strength is not military power .. military power is neutralized .. yes American has many nukes , but what is the difference between having 5000 nuke and having 5 (primitive) nuke .. when push comet to shove, 2-3 nuke "BANG" closes the file .. with new (hypersonic) missiles that manoeuvre until the last minute before hitting, that fly @ 15 speed of sound, who needs nuke subs ?

A good sample is Iran case .. the most warmonger US president , Bush and Cheney, even they did not dare attack Iran when Iran was much weaker .. now , pretty much nobody can attack Iran.

That rubbish confronting China and Russia and Iran and India will only hasten western retreat .. now no Prétention anymore west fighting for democracy and free world
I think the biggest disagreement we have is that the whole, western domination thing is a bit of a stretch.

we havent been imperial masters for atleast 3 generations, probably longer - their is some mischief, too much mischief in the middle east being done, so I am not against your point of view.

so, true, the rise of the rest of the world is inevitable and their is not a single damn thing the west can do about it.

however its not going to be dramatic, or triggered by Putin or mad mullahs.

its going to be a slow trickle of the rest of the world actually setting up 2 way trade systems between different countries.

you only acquire lots of FOO currency if you can spend FOO currency on somehting useful - balance of trade they call it.

this is the tricky bit.

China wont let you spend your money on anything in China thats non trivial, the rest are all mostly just natural resource suppliers.

India is the exception, but India doesnt need BRICS, its just another treaty to them, they have them with the West aswell.
ultracrepidarian
User avatar
Heracleum Persicum
Posts: 11639
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:38 pm

Re: The rise of BRICS

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

User avatar
Typhoon
Posts: 27432
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:42 pm
Location: 関西

Re: The rise of BRICS

Post by Typhoon »

Heracleum Persicum wrote: Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:49 pm .


Indian TV

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5z-e2miROQ

.
Scrapping the bottom of the barrel now.
May the gods preserve and defend me from self-righteous altruists; I can defend myself from my enemies and my friends.
User avatar
Heracleum Persicum
Posts: 11639
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:38 pm

Re: The rise of BRICS

Post by Heracleum Persicum »

Typhoon wrote: Tue Jun 20, 2023 9:22 pm
Heracleum Persicum wrote: Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:49 pm .


Indian TV

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5z-e2miROQ

.
Scrapping the bottom of the barrel now.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dR3_KSoOKBA

:lol:

Things getting interesting

True , Scrapping the bottom of the barrel now

but

who Scrapping

West , foolishly, thinking can arm to the teeth Ukraine (and Taiwan), and others will just watch and do nothing



WION - Global headquarters in New Delhi - get "unbiased" real news :D

https://www.youtube.com/@WION/about
.
Post Reply